Sweet Weekly TT Challenge - Comments - (Feb)

[Chrono]

It's the Sweet Weekly TT Challenge


This Week's Challenge is: Metropia Black (Flash)
Deadline: Feb. 3rd 1700 GMT


Week 1: Metropia Black (Flash) [FINAL SUN Feb 3rd]
Best Lap

KANDANG 24.83 Piranha
Asayyeah 24.84 Piranha
DjManiac 25.50 Piranha
il_NIK 25.61 Piranha
stin 25.67 Piranha
Tomahawk 25.72 Piranha
Alterego 25.85 Piranha
Frances Penfold 25.98 Piranha
Borell 26.06 Qirex
Chrono 26.39 Piranha
zargz 26.76 Assegai
Medusa 26.79 AG-Systems
Stardragon88 27.23 EG-X
Therealmat 27.67 PiranhaTotal Time

KANDANG 1.45.04
Asayyeah 1.46.20
DJManiac 1.47.38
il_NIK 1.47.59
stin 1.47.91
Tomahawk 1.48.82
Alterego 1.49.60
Borell 1.49.86
StarDragon88 1.50.54
Frances Penfold 1.50.89
Medusa 1.52.43
Chrono 1.53.25
Therealmat 1.54.67Ok here we are. Asayyeah told me to try and update this thread for Pulse, but this week I want to get some feedback. The challenges will start Sunday the 27th.

This front page will be constantly updated with the month's races, I'll also end cap every challenge with the standings. The way we're going to have threads (I think) is every month, a new thread. Old month threads will be merged onto one thread for challenge. This should make things a lot easier to handle for the competitors, as you wont have to cycle through 55 pages for that week's challenge.

Dj came up with a great idea for points. First of all, what should points be awarded for? I intially just thought for the best laps, but I don't know if y'all want points awarded for total race time as well. Personally, I don't focus on total time as much as lap, but what's the general feeling? The way I looked at it, more points should be awarded for more players. Example: four people compete, winner takes in 4 points, 9 people compete winner takes home 8 (and all subsequent competitors awarded properly). This way if you don't have time one week, or just don't like the track, you can probably afford to take the points hit, and still have a chance to catch up the next week. This also encourages more players to compete.
As far as a points leaderboard, at first, we'll keep it on a monthly basis, so if new people join the challenge at month 5, they are still fighting for the month. I'll keep track of all the points, so maybe have the true total points leaderboards updated monthly or so, for suspense. =P

OK, so let me hear from y'all. I really don't wanna screw this up :brickwall so give me some ideas. Vets, especially, just let me know how to make this shine like the Pure challenge.
I think that's all I got for now, I might edit this later if I have more. I'm hungry :burger lunch time

[KANDANG]

race times should be more important instead of lap times. Race times show a players ability / skill to stay focused throughout the laps required.

If lap times are gonna be of more importance, maybe call it sweet speed lap challenge instead? :burger

[Chrono]

No, well keep it in the same TT format as previous challenges, posting your best race and lap. I could do different score boards for time and lap. That might work out alright.

[Flashback Jack]

race times should be more important instead of lap times.

Interesting perspective. Way I look at it, lap times demonstrate a higher concentration of focus over what would be the shortest possible interval. Run a terminally fast lap, and the clarity earned from all the practice virtually guarantees a face race, little if any further demonstration necessary. It's only since Pulse's release that I've even entertained the idea of setting race records, personally.

- F

[KANDANG]

i'd rather put more energy in trying to stay focused on 5 laps of phantom
than to try and get the fastest time for one lap.

it's harder to do so too :)

[Chrono]

Well, the way it looks now, best total time and best lap will be treated as two different entities once submited. Two seperate scoreboards.

[Asayyeah]

That is perfect for me to race lap & racerecord : 2 choices of competiting : everyone will be happy i am sure.
About all the pts system , i don't really matter , you can adopt what you think is better, last year Romano did a fantastic job with that exel sheet document resuming all the 28 tracks and giving pts and various stats.

Other things that come in mind : i d like faster people share their lines and give tips to newcomers to reach a better level : we need to help eachothers and respect their performance, i am sure pilots will improve their skill easily along the whole TT challenge of Pulse. Think to Romano, he was discovering a new game on a new console and started the Pure TT challenge with us friendly, ok at the beginning of the weeks he was quite far, but progressively he reached an amazing level, beating Madice, Lunar or me on few tracks.
That is what i am expecting here : pilots who enjoy racing this kind of mini challenges.

You can make various speed class challenge depending on difficult track or not to have the largest audience of members possible,competing together in TT.

[Medusa]

I'm all for the fastest race time. It seems to be more strategic for learning how to race online...but that's just me!! So...what's this week's challenge?? Really doesn't matter to me how you add up points, I'll just read the race times, lol. P.S. Please do me a favour and don't start this challenge with Outpost 7...:g

[Frances_Penfold]

I'm with Flashback_Jack in thinking that lap times are where the real fun is at in time trials :nod

But I'll happily participate in both race and lap times-- as others have suggested, if we just keep them as separate tables it will allow people to participate as they see fit.

So... bring on the first challenge :D My vote is for NOT Outpost 7 and NOT phantom speed... let's break things in slowly

[rdmx]

Alrighty then, let's start with Outpost 7 Black Phantom... :g
j/k, j/k;)

[Chrono]

The track for sunday is NOT Outpost 7, it is, however, phantom speed

[Therealmat]

This sunday?
I had better get in some practice. :D

[Frances_Penfold]

So.... the identity of the track will be revealed this coming Sunday, and we will have one week to submit our best times (including best lap and best race)? I'm ready!

:hyper

[Chrono]

Yea, and submissions will be in the usual format, so both your best lap and total time have to come from the same race.

[Frances_Penfold]

Sounds good, but, errr, but I thought we decided that this was a fastest lap and fastest race competition? So speed laps don't count-- the fastest lap has to be in the time trial record?

Just want to make sure I understand ;)

If this is the plan, perhaps there is interest in having a separate speed lap challenge each week? Or perhaps there isn't enough of a Wipeout Pulse community at the moment to have TWO ongoing challenges per week.

[Chrono]

One more day to discuss rules.

[DjManiac21]

Im in! Ill be sure to take a chance whenever I get a headache from playing Paradise :P

I sure hope we get a pack soon :|

[Frances_Penfold]

One more day to discuss rules.

Yes, hopefully more folks will visit this thread and tell us what they want ;)

My feeling is that the challenge should include a "fastest lap" element, where the fastest lap can be set in either "Time Trial" or "Speed Lap" events. Some of us wipers really like speed lap mode (or in Wipeout Pure, free play mode) so I think inclusion of speed lap in the way will increase participation by the community.

But, if I am in the minority in feeling this way, I understand-- and will participate in a Time Trial only challenge :)

I am willing to run an independent speed lap challenge as a separate thread, but worry that might cannabilize from participation in this challenge, which I don't want to happen...

[Asayyeah]

I am for race & lap challenge done not only intot the racetime.
MAybe starting immediately by phantom could lower enthusiasm of newcomers.

[Chrono]

This Week's Challenge is: Metropia Black (Flash)

Final times must be submitted by Sunday, February 3rd, 1700 GMT

Before going off to work on your time, let me clarify a couple things from the previous posts. Fastest lap times may be set in Speed Lap or TT. If you're submitting times for both fastest lap and race, please clearly identify your fastest time.

If there are any questions, PM me or Asayyeah.

All times will be listed on the FIRST post in this thread. Happy racing, GL week 1 :dizzy

[Frances_Penfold]

Sounds great, Chrono. Thanks for your hard work organizing all of this! :)

[borell]

Let the challenge begin! :pirate

The way the rules are now agrees with my wishes. Thanks Chrono for taking the time to organise the TT challenge! :+

I just finished my first session. But... while writing this I noticed that I raced the wrong track (Metropia White). :blarg

I will get back another time with results. lol

---------
UPDATE
---------

Qirex

Lap 1: 0.28.55 [6] PL
Lap 2: 0.26.99 [6] PL
Lap 3: 0.26.90 [6] PL
Lap 4: 0.27.41 [5]
Total: 1.49.85 [23]

Best lap: 0.26.06 [7]

[Chrono]

Also please upload your most current times onto the wipeout ranking boards. That way I can confirm your latest times. Please try to do that, else it's kinda fishy

[Medusa]

"Fishy". Piranha. LOL.

I just had to say it. I'll add my time into this post so it's not completely meaningless in the end.

Well here's my time. And I can't do any BRs on Metropia Black. I pretty much only learned the track properly tonight. (If you can call it that without BRs.)

1:57:54

30:78 (10) PL
29:43 (9)
27:50 (11) PL and Lap record
29:83 (7)

No BRs at all and in my AG-SYS.

(Yep I missed the zero...)

[phl0w]

What if my time for the challenge is slower than my ranked time? It won't show up then.

[Chrono]

What if my time for the challenge is slower than my ranked time? It won't show up then.

That's fine. Just so long as it's not faster

[Frances_Penfold]

Heh, folks that hate barrel rolls won't be too pleased with this week's challenge-- I count three BRs as critical for Metropia Black, and one or two more BRs are possible :dizzy


What if my time for the challenge is slower than my ranked time? It won't show up then.

Wait... times for a given challenge *have to* be set during the week that the challenge is run?!

This is a non-issue now since it's such early days for Wipeout Pulse-- probably like most of you, I set new records for Metropia black earlier today after learning the identity of the challenge track.

But in the long run, this could be very confusing-- the world record holder would have to manually keep track of his or her "new" times because Pulse would only keep track of his or her best time :eek

[Chrono]

I'm not sure how this was handled in the past Pure challenges. Personally, I thought the idea of the challenge was to sit down with your game and try to up your best times for the week's challenge.

However, Asayyeah will have to answer this question.

[Medusa]

I don't think there's anyone in these forums who couldn't get a faster time than they currently have, once they really sit down and give it a competitive go. The rules seem perfectly clear and make sense to me - make sure you upload profile before posting and it should turn out okay, right?? I for one don't really care if someone posts their "old" best times. They're not that old!:dizzy

By the way, I'd really love to know why the official table does not show my best TT lap for this. No lap time at all is shown, actually. It's not over on Metropia White, either. Strange.

[Chrono]

I'm not going to participate in total time this week I don't think. I'll give it some more work throughout the week. Anyway, here's my latest time in speed lap:

26.66 ( 8 ) PL Piranha

Remember to upload your times. If you haven't uploaded by Sunday, you may not get points :cold

Medusa, I assumed you forgot a zero at the end of your best lap time.

[Asayyeah]

4 pills to prevent big headache for understanding what you said previously and to find an appropriate answer :blarg

About the weekly challenge in pure , we asked people to race the track within a week, next week it's a different track. We asked them to only take in consideration scores they did during this week and not the fastest racetime or laptime if they did this before that particular week.

about Pulse now , MadIce found this (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=80115&postcount=46) that means the best TT laptime won't be necessary the one corresponding to the race which is crap.

Possible solution is to not take in consideration the best laptime done in racetime and only play speedlap for those who wants to participate to the lapchallenge and of course racetime.

[Tomahawk]

best lap (Speed Lap):
0.25.72 Piranha

best TT race time:
0.28.16 (8)
0.26.80 (7)
0.27.25 (7)
0.26.61 (9) = 1.48.82 Piranha

I do two linked BR after the small drop and another one by using the boost on the uphill section right after the start (thanks again Frances).

[Frances_Penfold]

Hey Tomahawk, you can use a turbo on the starting stretch (up the hill) to get another barrel roll ;)

There are at least 3 barrel rolls easily possible in Metropia black at flash speed-- maybe 4 with some practice and luck. :banzai


About the weekly challenge in pure , we asked people to race the track within a week, next week it's a different track. We asked them to only take in consideration scores they did during this week and not the fastest racetime or laptime if they did this before that particular week.

Possible solution is to not take in consideration the best laptime done in racetime and only play speedlap for those who wants to participate to the lapchallenge and of course racetime.

Ok, sounds great. Unless I hear otherwise, I will assume that I am submitting my best lap run on Speed Lap, and my best race time run on Time Trial-- and everything has to be performed the week that the contest is done. Also, I will update my online profile on the Saturday before the end of the contest (if not earlier).

Thanks to Asayyeah and Chrono for taking the time to sort all of this out-- should be a fun series of contests!

[Tomahawk]

Hey Tomahawk, you can use a turbo on the starting stretch (up the hill) to get another barrel roll ;)

There are at least 3 barrel rolls easily possible in Metropia black at flash speed-- maybe 4 with some practice and luck. :banzai

Thanks for the tip Frances :+, but where do you see the 4th barrel roll?

Times updated. :pirate

[Frances_Penfold]

A fourth barrel roll is *possible* either (1) at the beginning of the race, following the turbo and the first barrel roll on the upward hill slope; or (2) at the end of the race, following the linked barrel rolls performed after the small drop.

In both spots, I have sometimes been able to get some "air" that can be converted into a barrel roll-- but it's hard to make it consistent, and it's hard to turn the ship quickly enough to be able to move into the turn rather than hitting walls.

I think the other challenge with this course is consistently converting the small drop at the end of the course into a barrel roll-- sometimes my ship just drops like a rock, so fast, that I can't finish the barrel roll move. This is a real pain in the ass with TTs, when you want to be able to hit the BR consistently four times in a row. Anyway, my only conclusion about this is to make sure you go off the drop on the LEFT side of the track, because this seems to propel the ship more upwards off the drop.

I'd be curious to know if anybody has any other ideas about this :)

[Stardragon88]

Alright, here goes.

Time Trial - Metropia Black Flash

EG-X

Lap 1: 0.28.50 ( 7 )
Lap 2: 0.27.39 ( 6 ) PL
Lap 3: 0.27.23 ( 7 ) PL
Lap 4: 0.27.42 ( 6 )

Total: 1.50.54 ( 26 )

I'm certain a lap time of under 27 seconds can be achieved in the right circumstances :) Will update accordingly, good luck everyone.

*My isp or somesuch keeps giving me a 'Session has expired' message, so I usually upload at a friend's house. Barring that, I could try taking a picture of the results page and putting it up as a small thumbnail if that's necessary.

[Chrono]

I made my time (26.66) without BRing at all. Perhaps I'll try to see if I can drop my time some more with one.

[Asayyeah]

Piranha
Speed lap : 25.61

Racetime : 1.47.84 (22)

Lap1 : 28.15 (5)
Lap2 : 26.14 ( 8 ) PL
Lap3 : 26.65 (4) PL
Lap4 : 26.90 (5)

I am using 3 BRs per lap
I am using my turbo right after the 1st 'S' where i hit one of the 2 boostPads in parallel at the beginning of the track, i BR trying to land softly and sideshift on the last right curve before the mag strip to hit that single boostpad.
Approaching the small drop i am going on the left and after that mini jump i can link 2 BRs on the row.

Edit :
Piranha

Speed lap : 25.09

Racetime : 1.46.20 (26)

Lap1 : 27.34 (7)
Lap2 : 26.18 (7)
Lap3 : 26.19 (6)
Lap4 : 26.49 (6)

Best lap into a racetime = 25.20

[DjManiac21]

Pfffff, this is bad :P

It shows people have been practicing ;)

EDIT: I've been practicing those BRs for the last 3 hours, here are my times so far...

My times:

Piranha

Racetime : 1.47.38 (21)

Lap1 : 28.63 ( 6 ) PL
Lap2 : 25.50 ( 4 )
Lap3 : 27.60 ( 8 )
Lap4 : 25.65 ( 3 )

That 25.50 is my best lap so far, but it doesn't count towards the best lap competition right? Must be set on Speed lap?

[Medusa]

Ack all you barrel rollers are fast (XD that is a funny term...). I'm determined not to crack and switch to the fishy so maybe I'll try some BRs tonight...can I use my fastest TT lap as best lap so I don't have to do speed lap in addition? Someone tell me please?

[Frances_Penfold]

Err, I was under the impression that it doesn't matter where the fastest lap time is set-- though for most people, it is more likely to be set in Speed Lap than in Time Trial, since the focus of Speed Lap is on getting the fastest lap times...

[Chrono]

It does not matter what mode you set you're fastest laps in, though Speed Lap is recommended

So two days into the challenge and we already have 7 people, looks like my dynamic scoring wont make a difference if we keep getting participation like this.

[Medusa]

28:99 (6)
28:13 (8)
28:42 (5)
27:34 PL (6)Lap Record

1:52:88 AG-SYS

Now I'm managing about 3 BRs per lap.

Umm, that smiley after lap 2 means 8 speed pads. Sheesh!

UPDATE!

New best lap: 26:79 (set it TT. right after I gave up on speed lap with a 27:19...)

Race: 1:52:43 (I know not much of an improvement...)

28:95 (5)
27:70 (5)
27:76 (5)
28:02 (7)

All in AG-SYS

[Asayyeah]

Mauro & Isadora we can take in consideration the laptime done in TT if it's your best lapscore like Chrono said.

Mauro = 1.47.38 !
Interesting strategy you used for getting this score : 2 mega lap under 26 sec within an awesome 25.50, congrats :clap

[DjManiac21]

Thanks Arnaud!

I was racing as you suggested in your scores, keeping the fast race allthrough, but I realised my chances of getting a better score would increase if I went for only one fast lap.
But those BRs really are a bitch, but thanks to Frances I corrected my line to the left of the ramp in the end, so slowly I started getting 2 BRs in a row there.
Really challenging AND enjoyable, this track is :D

EDIT: I uploaded my profile yesterday before going to sleep, but the scores are not updated in the site...

[Asayyeah]

Now they are ( updated)
From time to time the recent scores disapeared to appear again few moments later... like RR said in a previous thread that certainly due to maintenance of the site

[alterego]

Hi All.

...in silence.....i add my times to the site..... ;)

for now (but it's early for an end :D ) with piranha:

TT 1.50.76

BL 26.14

EDIT
New improvement....

Piranha
TT 1.49.60
BL 25.85

Read You Soon
CdRom

[Asayyeah]

Shakes hands Romano ! we tied this laptime you & me :o

[stin]

My scores atm:paperbag

Fishy ship

27.81, 26.58, 26.70, 26.82= 1.47.91

Lap Time 25.67


EDIT3! Updated!

stevie:)

[Asayyeah]

I updated my new score into the tables, i haven't changed of turbo location, only taken few risky sideshifts with no PL done on the 4 laps from that race :(

Kandang , i ve seen a recent update from you, maybe you can post your time here :?:

[Chrono]

Hi All.

...in silence.....i add my times to the site..... ;)

for now (but it's early for an end :D ) with piranha:

TT 1.50.76

BL 26.14

little upgrade for me....

Piranha
TT 1.49.60
BL 25.85

Read You Soon
CdRom

Sorry alter, I found this a tad confusing. When you edit a current time, can you please put something like "1st time improvement, Jan 30" or something. Makes my life easy, and I'm real lazy. Anyway, sorry for no update yesterday, I was out in town all day. Anyway, update coming, then I'm gonna work on my time.

[borell]

... so far I have stuck to editing my original post of results for this weeks challenge as soon as I have had any updates. This is the way it used to be done in the TT Challenges, so I did it like this out of habit I guess.

Chrono, can you please specify how you want posting of results and updates to be carried out?

[Chrono]

---------
UPDATE
---------

Qirex

Lap 1: 0.28.55 [6] PL
Lap 2: 0.26.99 [6] PL
Lap 3: 0.26.90 [6] PL
Lap 4: 0.27.41 [5]
Total: 1.49.85 [23]

Best lap: 0.26.06 [7]

This is perfect, exactly what you did. BTW first post leaderboard is updated, big changes today

One other thing, sorry I forgot to add the peoples ship next to their score, I'll add it on my next update. Just completely missed my mind. I'll make it up to y'all by making their names fancy colors =P

[borell]

Chrono, you got my race time wrong while updating the leader board. It should be 1.49.85 and I should be in fourth position.

[Chrono]

fixed, although I'll update again later tonight. So if you want your times on the front page, submit before too late.

[Therealmat]

lol, my times are terrible.

Piranha

Lap 1: 0.29.70
Lap 2: 0.28.72
Lap 3: 0.28.09
Lap 4: 0.27.67
Total: 1.54.67

[Chrono]

ill update the front page and delete this post around 10pm amsterdam time, at the end of my class.

oops, i can't delete posts...=( oh well, here's some spam

here's my times I updated some today. I don't want to bust out my PSP in class so I'll just tell you the numbers (I wrote them down earlier when I was updating the times)
Lap: 26.59
time: 1.53.25 all with Piranha still

[zargz]

is it ok to only post lap times made in speed lap?

[Chrono]

Yes, that's fine. We discussed this in some more depth a few pages back, if you care to read why we decided to open fastest lap times to both speed lap and TT.

[zargz]

cool! then I'll give medusa a fight for that second last place ;)

assegai, speed lap

best lap 0.27.57 (8 ) pl


// medusa

with this time I got silver in my grid. under 27.50 = gold 8)

----------------
UPDATE 1 27.22 (6)
----------------

----------------
UPDATE 2 26.88 (6)
----------------

----------------
UPDATE 3 26.76 (5) pl
----------------
.

[Chrono]

Since I'm bored in class, I'll go over a couple things.

About the Dynamic Point System: This was created in case participation was low, it is great however, so it isn't needed this week. First place (when 8+ people compete) recieves 8 points, 2nd 7 (unlike the game, this way more people get points, instead of going to 6), so on. If you don't make the top seven players, you will be rewarded one point, even if you're in dead last.

About submitting your times: If Sunday rolls around and your time still isn't on the ranking boards...man. :naughty Send me a PM if you have a situation, but honestly, it's not a big hassle to upload your profile for Sunday. Let me know if this is too much to ask. I want to confirm your times to reduce cheating, but since this is a board full of good guys that love the community, cheating isn't a real problem. Regardless, I'd like to see proof of your time. I don't think it's too much to ask, but let me know. I'm an easy going guy so send me a PM if you think I'm being an ass. =P

About the Front Page: I just want to know if anyone is using this as a resource to keep up with peoples times. Currently, I'm trying several things to see what works. Bolding all times is something I'm thinking about doing to make it easier to read. Also, the board holds me hostage with spacing. I wanted to have the lap and race times next to each other, but it wouldn't let me. Anyway, let me know what I could do to improve it.

[zargz]

the front page looks great as it is! :+

[KANDANG]

hello, i'm joining in too

Piranha

Best Lap: 24.83

Best Race:

Lap 1: 27.18 <7> PL
Lap 2: 25.85 <8> PL
Lap 3: 26.01 <7> PL
Lap 4: 26.00 <8>
Total: 1:45.04

[il_NIK]

Hi, I'm with you, mates

PIRANHA

third edit, 2 feb

1 27.83 6 PL
2 26.51 7 PL
3 26.62 6
4 26.63 5 PL

TOT 1.47.59

BL 25.61

Kandang, amazing times!!!!! Can you describe your raceline and turbo location? thanks

[KANDANG]

it's the same as asa's actually but i 'll take the speed pad before the jump.
so effectively three speed pads out of 11 in the map will be missed because of the BR's.

got carried away during the final lap if not hopefully i could get 1.54++
with a PL. hee hee!

[Asayyeah]

Good work on that YS :)
Ill try to do my best to hit that speed pad before the drop.
Ill test that later before sunday deadline.

[Medusa]

Front page looks good to me, just want to point out my laptime is a 26:79. I think it got lost in my updated post. (Don't want to get beaten by Assegai, you see. Otherwise I wouldn't mention it.)

[zargz]

// chrono

I don't know how good the system with updating you own post is for you.
as I see it you have to go forth and back through 5-6 pages to spot an update.
a better alternative would be a completely different thread with Only updatable time entries.

anyway, I ve updated my time on page 6 and here as well so you don't have to go there looking :D

assegai, speed lap

-- --------------
UPDATE 3 . . . . . 26.76 (5) pl
----------------

[Asayyeah]

I agree with you Pavel, i lost a lot of time last year to scroll down every new laps and racetimes.

A new thread can be done by Chrono with constant upload of current ranking of the week ( i can help you easier to edit when you are not present) and below every pilots will only write their scores and no comments, they can edit their previous post and put in bold their new lap & racetime record.

Here in this original thread we can discuss techniques, share points of view on lines to adopt while racing, comment our current score, etc...
Chrono can edit his 1st post to publish the result of each week with time & pts , etc...

[Medusa]

:blarg Zargz! Nice time. I think I have to just admit defeat on this one. Too much time on one track in one week already! Are you using three BRs in places Asa mentioned as well?

[Chrono]

So you want a new post exclusively for times and the leaderboard? That's fine with me. How will that work on a month to month basis? At the end of each week the posts get cleaned out or what? How many weeks should the first post have in the thread?

Also, tomorrow is the last day. Make sure you upload your times

[Asayyeah]

Chrono, on that new thread you will edit your 1st post every end of week to publish the current leaderboard in term of pts and also the time scores from pilots corresponding to the week.
So we can have access instantly to current updated pts in general and also result from each week.
Lenght of one post is not illimited so you can maybe create 3 or 4 other posts following your 1st one in order to keep enough place to add all the weeks result in future.
That will be easier for me to merge or delete unecessary posts rather than create a new one, placed immediately after yours. ( not sure if this means something to people :paperbag but i can understand me which is a 1st good step :D )

After end of each week , ill delete ( actually merged to your 1st post and delete everyones datas) all posts where pilots did their updates : tokeep the topic clean.

[Chrono]

That sounds good. We'll start it tomorrow. I'll create a couple place holder posts like you said.

[zargz]

:blarg Zargz! Nice time. I think I have to just admit defeat on this one. Too much time on one track in one week already! Are you using three BRs in places Asa mentioned as well?yes, m'am.
but I suspect a last effort from you damorra!? http://geocities.com/zargz/leenden/slz.gif ?
so I'll put some more effort into it tonight.
may be even try to get a piranha scalp :eek
.

[rejj]

I haven't had much time to play in general the last week or so, but I figured I might give this circuit a go... I have no idea how you guys are getting three barrel-rolls in per lap. :(

I think I need a whole lot more practice at Pulse. I'm only up to grid 6, and haven't been playing wipeout in the last year or two since I lost my Pure umd :(

I doubt I'll have a time for this challenge in by the due date, but maybe next week.

[Frances_Penfold]

Chrono and Asayyeah, since Wipeout Pulse is the first Wipeout game to have an online leaderboard system, would it be easiest to simply use that as the way to track scores?

I mean, rather than going through this thread and looking for times burried in the text-- why not just go the Wipeout-Game.com rankings page and record the times for the participating pilots? Sounds like updating times to the website is a requirement of the competition in any case.

Just a suggestion though I understand there may be some practical reason why it's a bad idea!


----
Anyway, here are my time submissions, all done with Pirrhana, and updated on the rankings website:

Best lap: 0:25.98
Best race: 1:50.89

In the unlikely event that I get a better time I will update this post.

Thanks for all of your hard work with this :)

[Medusa]

I have one reason why that is likely a bad idea - you may be unable to update to that site before Chrono compiles the times. For example I was unable to upload my profile today - the site just wouldn't let me. Don't know why, and it's not like I had a new time for this challenge or anything, but it's still annoying.

If Chrono can't verify the times exactly when he compiles the ones here, it doesn't seem fair if someone has made a better time but it just doesn't show up on the wipeout-game website yet? Does it?

[Frances_Penfold]

^^
I personally don't think so, Medusa-- not with this hardcore (and very predominately honest) crowd. It's not like past time trials have been check-able either.

But regarding use of the official Wipeout-game.com rankings-- there may sometimes be problems with updating profiles but the HUGE time/effort advantage it gives to the organizers is important, IMHO. I know that I would hate to read through WOZ threads trying to pick out the most current times when the information is already summarized for me on the official site :)

Perhaps people can make a point of uploading their time's through the week to minimize potential last minute problems-- and organizers can do a final check late on Sunday to make sure times aren't changed at the last minute?

Anyway-- whatever works for the organizer(s)-- thanks again for your hard work!

[rejj]

The only problem there is that this isn't an all-time competition for the best time, but rather the best time you can set within the window of the competition.

If you'd previously set a great record on a particular course, you may not beat it during the week and thus not have anything on the official table that week to show for your effort.

I think the idea of having a separate thread that has no discussion in it and is just used for people to post and edit their times is workable. Either that, or everyone spams the organiser(s) with PMs ;)

[Asayyeah]

I updated into the 1st post my new lap ( nothing changing on the ranking .. for a mini 0.01 sec on the lap, nooooooooo ;) )
I also updated Frances's scores , Chrono.

14 pilots racing on the laptime : that's truly a success!
Can't wait for the 2 nd week ... starting... Now :hyper

[Chrono]

And that's it. Week One has been completed. Great turn out of people (13 I think), and we're still missing alot of people from the forums as well. So really solid first week.


Week 1: Metropia Black (Flash)
Winner: KANDANG
KANDANG joined late this week, along with il_NIK. Both jumping right into the top 4, KANDANG in first. The big surprise is the absence of an update, from Asayyeah andDjManiac, to challenge the new top time.
What will next week hold atTalon's Junction Black (Rapier)

Here's the final standings with points after end of week 1:

Ranking

Rank Pilot Best-lap Best-race Total pts

KANDANG 8 8 16
Asayyeah 7 7 14
DjManiac 6 6 12
il_NIK 5 5 10
stin 4 4 8
Tomahawk 3 3 6
Alterego 2 2 4
Frances Penfold 1 1 2
Borell 1 1 2
Chrono 1 1 2
Medusa 1 1 2
Stardragon88 1 1 2
Therealmat 1 1 2
zargz 1 1
Good week. Let's have a better Week 2:clap

Also remember well have the new thread for just submitting times. Discussion will continue here. Sorry about the weird spacing...I just dunno. I didn't worry about checking the official leaderboards this week.

[Asayyeah]

I tried to challenge his laptime ( kandang) i was pretty close last night only 0.01 sec ! Judging by the racetime he did i had almost no chance to beat him so i insisted on trying to beat him on the lap : arghhhh ;)

We need to know how Jay ( task) is doing to implement a code to a post allowing that (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=70533&postcount=102). which will be easier to check results for everyone and a gain of space on the post.

[zargz]

write [ code ] bla bla [ /code ]

looks like this 8)




all the spaces are supposed to stay

just as you write them


^_^

[DjManiac21]

God damn, PS3 side tracking me...

Oh well, it was a good start anyways. :mr-t

[Task]

That's exactly it.
The whole point of the "code" tags (instead of typing it manually, you can use the # button on the GUI) is to switch to a monospace font, so every character is equally wide, and spaces are maintained exactly as demonstrated. So it's really easy to lay out a table quickly, hit "preview", fix the spacing, and post a nice little columnar lookup table.

No Excel required! 8 )

[rejj]

Could you possibly edit the first post in this thread to contain the current challenge? That way we can always just load up the first page to see current standings and times for whichever course is going on for the current week..

Also - depress me, guys: how many BRs are you doing per lap on this week's challenge? 'cause I just gave it a quick go (only got 27.1x lap) and I'm doing a grand total of zero rolls per lap :(

[Chrono]

I would need board moderator rights to do that. Since this just started, I assume they are just seeing how i will handle it before humoring that idea

[zargz]

Also - depress me, guys: how many BRs are you doing per lap on this week's challenge? 'cause I just gave it a quick go (only got 27.1x lap) and I'm doing a grand total of zero rolls per lap :(if you are talking about talon's black the it's the same here - zero BRs.


// asa

if it's possible to change the title of a thread, this thread could be called something like 'weekly TT challange - Comments'.
the other one - 'weekly TT challange - Times'.
may be easier to understand where to post time and where to comment.


// chrono

I think the 'weekly TT times' thread looks good

the format


this weeks (on-going) results


last weeks (ended) results

I feel is a good one.

every new week can get on top of the older ones.
then next month a new thread and the 1st post won't be too crowded.

good job :+

[KANDANG]

if you are talking about talon's black the it's the same here - zero BRs.

sorry mate, but there's 1 BR :sonar

it can be done on the mag-strip.
when it takes place, there is no boost sound but you gain the extra speed.

[Asayyeah]

True 1 BR while you finish your left turn before the mag strip, you can boost and BR.
I am trying to nose down my ship a lot , especially near the end with the serie of the 3 consecutive boostpads : don't miss one and go as much as you can on the left side of the track.
Nose down also into the chicanes to catch the boostpad before the left turn where you can turbo boost

[Chrono]

Looks like Asayyeah went in and added the code, so I'll use that from now on.

Looking forward in the weeks, I'm curious as to what the competitors in the challenge are used to. Let me know what the speed you feel most comfortable with at this time, and we'll start gearing more the races toward that. I don't wanna do 3 weeks of phantom if half the people competing aren't ready for it yet.

Also, wanted to warn you, when we get a pack, expect to race that track with whatever craft came with it. That should make for an interesting week =P

[Asayyeah]

yes i tested the code :p

We shall put the global score (pts) in top of your 1st post to keep the global ranking in 1st then the current up-to-date from the week and following result of the other weeks.

About the speed we can alternate between classes and adjusting them to the tracks ( slow for hard tracks and opposite , for instance)

Your last suggestion is brilliant Stevie said and i am fully agree with him :clap , during 1 month we will have the 4 new tracks to do ! splendid idea

[DjManiac21]

Dammit, you guys find BRs everywhere...

I understand now why people want them out in general :P

[Medusa]

Hear, hear!!

About the speed, I'm really just breaking into Phantom right now, so Rapier is probably the best class for me personally. Still haven't quite finished the game either so I use PhantomTT as a break-in to the tracks in this challenge. But I'll post my slow times in any speed!

[zargz]

:eek!!! breaking in Fantom??!

I'm breaking in rapier :redface:
I feel I have about 40% controll there. for flash may be 90%
coz I still miss some speed pads, especially online with the pressure on!!

so for me flash and rapier are ok :)

damn BRs!
is there Any track without them?
if yes I'll do a 12 race tour online only with that track http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/lol.gif

yah, time to try out that BR now.

[Chrono]

Well I doubt I'll bring the Weekly Challenge down to Venom level, if there's a greater chance of participation with flash, we'll probably see something like 2 flash, 1 rapier, and a phantom track a week. As we move forward, that will change.
About BR intensive tracks: I actually put a lot of thought, and usually a smoke break discussion with DjManiac, into each week's track. You won't ever see two tracks that have multiple/hidden BR in consecutive weeks. It's just not fun.

[Frances_Penfold]

Hey Chrono, can you tell us how you want to update times in the Weekly TT thread?

Should we just erase our old times when we update, or should we leave the old times and add our new times as well?

[Chrono]

Really whichever you prefer, as long as it's clean and easy to understand. I believe Asayyeah will delete everyones post at the end of the week.

[il_NIK]

Hi mates,

this is the first and the only one post for me this week for this track. I've some work problems, I've to be in nurnberg into the international toy fair this week (i'm coming, Tom :D ).

damn, only few minutes to play this time, but i'm here again... :(

BL: 25.64

1.48.27

See you again next week!!! :+

[Chrono]

Wrong thread for posting times, btw. Also, I don't know what ship you raced...

[Asayyeah]

i PMed Niko about that, he will put his score on the right place for sure

----------------


Wrong thread for posting times, btw. Also, I don't know what ship you raced...

checking the wipeout-game website, it looks like he was using the Piranha

[Chrono]

Looks like it's a little slower of a week. It's the halfway point, so get your times in if you haven't already.
Do y'all think we have less people because it's Rapier, or just because... If it doesn't pick up, I'll bring a Flash track next week to see. If not...dun dun dun, Phantom :dizzy

[borell]

Unfortunately, I have not had time to sit down and play this weeks challenge yet. I hope I will find some before it ends.

[phl0w]

Seeing that I got more freetime in the weeks to come, I'd like to participiate in Challenges again (Rapier and Phantom, that is, I don't wanna fall asleep ;) ). What's the latest judgement calls on Best Laps? Is Speed Lap allowed or do only Laps from TT-ing count? Thanks!

[borell]

Speed Laps are allowed.

[Frances_Penfold]

Regarding the participation issue, I would point out that the scoring system doesn't really encourage mid-range or low-range players to compete and try (and re-try) to get those best lap and race times-- it doesn't matter if you are no. 8 or no. 80, you still get a single point for your efforts.

I will be particating regardless-- I love time trialing even when I'm not the best player, which I almost never am-- but is there a reason why everybody doesn't earn a score that matches their rank? For example, why not just rank everybody no. 1 to n, n being the number of participants for a given week, and then take the mean rank number at the end of the challenge? Lowest number at the end of the challenge = winner.

Just a thought-- no big deal one way or the other, but might increase participation from some folks ;)

Oh, and I will upload my profile and submit my current times later tonight-- been busy with work, sorry for not submitting earlier.

[Asayyeah]

Good point Frances
That may increase number of pilots racing the challenge.
What do you think about Frances's suggestion to modifie the points system, Chrono ?

[Chrono]

I really like it. We would need to organize the list by weeks completed (most on top, least on bottom). That way a guy that only raced one week would be at the top. I'd also want to only do this on a month to month basis, since you can't ask everyone to race every week, which is the biggest fault with this score system. I really do like it though, and think it could work well.

[Frances_Penfold]

The approach I mentioned is sometimes called "average finish" (AF for short) and is an unweighted measure of performance consistency-- as opposed to weighted approaches that sum total times (and thus weight longer tracks) or assign particular point values to different rank positions.

The AF measure is intuitive because it corresponds to your relative ranking in each individual challenge-- if you have an AF of 1.5, you were generally the first or second ranked person in a given track. It is a continuous scale that evaluates everbody, so provides incentive for both top and bottom ranked racers.

As you say, Chrono, special consideration is needed for missing data (when some participants don't complete all challenges).

Two possible approaches might be (1) to only include folks that have completed all challenges in the final ranking at the end of the month; and (2) to assign folks that do not complete a challenge the highest numerical rank (so if 10 people participate in a given track, than anybody that doesn't participate gets a score of "11").

Anyway, just some random thoughts-- I'm sure whatever y'all decide on will work great for the TT challenge :P

[Chrono]

Ugh, sorry for the late update, I left DJmaniac's way late in the morning. Working on updating right now.

We wont start the new point system just yet. We can start it next month, perhaps

[Chrono]

Ok everything is done. But it's sunday, and we all know what time that means, NEW TRACK DAY.

TECH DE RA WHITE (RAPIER)
We'll keep it on Rapier for another week so people can work up some more. This should be an interesting week

[alterego]

Hi All.

Only a doubt...i make on Talon black 1.46.23 with piranha, but i see only my first attempt with agsys 1.46.96 in the final table.....mmmh?

Do i make something wrong? :)

Read You Soon
CdRom

[stin]

I just updated on the same post rather than a new one to cut down the pages and save their time, looking at our times on every week.

good idea?

stevie:)

[il_NIK]

Sorry, I ask to your patience for me :redface: , I'm really and totally enabled to understand something else here (I suppose my girlmate say... not only here...).

I'm just come back home after a week of hard work in a great toy fair in nurnberg, and only by now I can upload my times in "wipeout game.com" for the race of talons junction black, rapier.

Are it valid for the challenge or not?


if no :frown:: it's ok :+

Another thing: excuse me Chrono, I promise you that from this week I will be a perfect student!

[DjManiac21]

Hey Kandang, I gues it would be nice to drop by and say "Hi, good TT this week" at least right?
I mean, you always come last moment, set a new record and never talk about it and I don't really see the fun of that, I mean, it would be constructive for everyone to hear the details from an experience pilot such as yourself.

[il_NIK]

I'm not so fast like Kandang, Djmaniac and Asayyeah, but I found a double possibility of extra boost in Talons junction black rapier:

1 - you can BR before the mag strip without use your turbo in advance. if you take the track on the very right side, taking the boost pad, you can BR with sound and extra boost! ;) Unfortunately I found this way in the least possible minutes for me to play, but I think that Kandang and DJ found this way and use it at well. It's very difficult to do so

2 - now we have to understand where is the best choice for our turbo boost. I think on the S before the mag strip if we race the best line, so we can improve as well our velocity for the BR. Other simple possibility is on the final straight.

What do you think?

[DjManiac21]

Hi nik, I like boosting on mag strips when possible, it's a fact that these slow you down so if you can indeed take the right side before the loop and BR without using the boost I would use it on the mag strip loop anyways to compensate for lost speed, but we'll have to try that! :)
I'll see if I can get it going after I get out from work, well spotted nik! :+

[T-Rex29]

DjManiac : “I mean, you always come last moment, set a new record and never talk about it and I don't really see the fun of that, I mean, it would be constructive for everyone to hear the details from an experience pilot such as yourself.”

Sorry DjManiac, for me it’s just a problem of language. My english is so poor ( I have the dictonary French-English on my legs when I post ).:blarg

I saw this challenge last saturday and it was a lot of fun with my son these two last days. I had played 2 or 3 hours on Talon TT when my son asked me what I was making. Ten minutes later, he had the best times. So I spent a lot of time to improve my times, to pick up again the head and finaly he bet me ( he just played one hour sunday afternoon )on the race time by 0.00.01 sec. Iritating, is’nt it ? But lot of fun.:P

Thank you all for your advices. That allow me to improve the BR, that I never do before, on this track .:+

You are right, sorry not to post more details about the runs and many comments about
other topics. I would like to debate, it’s only my english that’s go wrong .

[DjManiac21]

Hi Rex, I wasn't talking about you in particular, and besides I have no particular authority to oblige people to post anything ;)

I was just saying that, if possible, commenting on your new time, mostly if it is a new record, would surely contribute to everyone that's interested in getting better, in the end this is about racing and getting to know good pilots while at it. Records or not, every time posted here is important because behind each time there's a fellow WO player doing their best to improve their skills in these games we all love.

So, let's have another beer and keep on racing! :D

[Frances_Penfold]

TECH DE RA WHITE (RAPIER)


I made a few preliminary runs last night-- the big question in my mind is whether or not it saves time to use the "rails" on the last 1/3rd or so of the course to generate an extra BR or two.

Rail jumping definitely helps on Tech de Ra black at lower speed classes-- it's a little dicier on the white version at the higher speed.

Should be fun, as always :)

[T-Rex29]

Hey DjManiac, too cold now for a beer. Whisky for me . That could help me in “Tech de ra” curves. How do you say ... Skol !:beer
Hi Frances, I had the same thought last night, but can’t succeded in that way, not yet...:lol

[stin]

Somebody who stole or deleted my post through the night? ASA!, these are my latest times for this week! :P, So, am I allow to put my times in?

stevie:redface:

[KANDANG]

1 - you can BR before the mag strip without use your turbo in advance. if you take the track on the very right side, taking the boost pad, you can BR with sound and extra boost! ;) Unfortunately I found this way in the least possible minutes for me to play, but I think that Kandang and DJ found this way and use it at well. It's very difficult to do so


howdy, i didn't use this method and i think it's not very effective because...

for the turbo to be effective in that map, you'll have to be able to get another BR after using the turbo. If not, there wouldn't be any difference.

example:

scenario 1) if i turbo 20 feet and then BR which gives me 10 feet, altogether i'd have gone a distance of 30 feet.

scenario 2) but if i had done what you mentioned at the top, i BR first for 10 feet and then further on i turbo which gives me 20 feet, in the end i'd still cover 30 feet.

For it to be effective, i'd need to be able to BR and get 10 feet, turbo for 20 and another BR in the air after the turbo for 10 feet = 40 feet.

This is also the case in maps like Outpost 7 White. If i nosed up and did a BR and then further on i just used my turbo, it'd be slower than if i just turbo-ed and BR-ed in the air on the same run. It is slower because I had to nose up first or go over bumps to get height for the BR.

:cowboy

[Asayyeah]

Stevie : i deleted all the posts : no need to stay with old scores concerning previous week.

So if this happends to other pilots, please you can update your score for tech de Ra.


Kandang : I think DJmaniac & me asked you if you can describe precisely how you are practising to make such great score : like describing us your lines and if you put nose down continously or not.
We are asking you this because you seem to have every top score of the challenge ( you are at 1.39 for tech de ra)
And if possible if you can comment that before saturday afternoon ;)

[zargz]

I remember the times when al was unbeatable ..
then came asa and ruled the rankings.
now kandang is owning everyone.

There's always a Bigger fish!

[KANDANG]

Kandang : I think DJmaniac & me asked you if you can describe precisely how you are practising to make such great score : like describing us your lines and if you put nose down continously or not.
We are asking you this because you seem to have every top score of the challenge ( you are at 1.39 for tech de ra)
And if possible if you can comment that before saturday afternoon ;)

hehe the time of 1.39 on tdr was set more than a month ago. most of you will be able to beat that time. i'm hoping to top 1.39 the next time i play it, perhaps during the weekend.

as for practice, i don't have any secret moves that you wouldn't already know. it's pretty clear cut and there aren't many variations for taking my corner/lines. i did not use nose down in pure, but just started using it in pulse when someone said it gives a slight speed bonus / including side shifts. i try to do both more now.

Just watch my videos and you'll see that my lines aren't particularly special. They're just what most people would normally take.

[Flashback Jack]

now kandang is owning everyone.

Some fight hard and don't entirely lose out to him. :)

- F

[zargz]

true. fight the man! :D

[Chrono]

If more people don't participate in this week, it won't count. Tech De Ra is pain in the ass cause of the multiple BRs possible.

The new tracks from the packs won't make it into the rotation till atleast March. This allows people time to DL them. It probably be later than that.

Regardless of this week, next week WILL be PHANTOM.

[stin]

Whaaat?!:blarg

I`m really enjoying this track atm and other mate is playing as well but the rest will hopefully creeps in!

Yes it`s hard track but multi brs? nah!, just too many bends and hard to control.

GUYS!, C`MON! PUT YOUR SCORES IN PLEASE.

stevie:paperbag

[DjManiac21]

I will, as soon as I get some time with my PSP, I'm kinda stuck at work now.
We'll see if we get it beaten at the last moment again :?

[Flashback Jack]

Tech De Ra is pain in the ass cause of the multiple BRs possible.[/b]

Only one barrel roll necessary to secure the fastest times on Rapier and Phantom for Tech de Ra White, far as I've experienced.

- F

[Medusa]

Hey, don't threaten me!:naughty

I will be posting my time, once I get one - it's been a horribly busy week, I'm stuck in a blizzard, and have to set up a new PC and set up my wireless network again...I'll get to Tech de Ra, I will I will!

(not that my time will pose a threat, but it will be here...)

[Frances_Penfold]

I will be submitting my times shortly-- just had to practice the track on slower speeds to identify my lines :)

[Chrono]

I finish the update later. I wanted to leave myself something to do when I'm bored in class.

[DjManiac21]

I'm uploading a video I recorded just yet beating my previous Tech De Ra time with Goteki! :)

I'll upload it asap for you to see and get an idea on my line, I really hope it helps :+

So it's gonna be google video or youtube, whichever accepts the video first.

The quality is quite good though I couldn't get the brightness right it seems since it looses focus from time to time, slightly but a little annoying.

My time with the Goteki is 23.59 or so, not a record but still pretty decent. :banzai

EDIT: Link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Wgo8L5ysSk

Or:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...50719936&hl=en (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-269842054450719936&hl=en)

[il_NIK]

I've no time to play this week, but I see your fight here.

I've a question for KANDANG: have you already downloaded ICARAS or it's an error of wipeout-game.com?

To do this laptime I think that you use the double BR like in your race-videos, isnt'it?

[KANDANG]

no error, i've got the icaras ship and just tried TTing on tdr.

2 br's altogether on that map.

there's a 3rd BR for the fastest time, but it's hard to pull off.

[Nadia Elenova]

3br's?!! O_O'
Where? I just did the "obvious" one.

[Asayyeah]

On my racetime i only used 1 BR per lap but i throw the turbo while i am BRing into the air on the drop. I feel more comfortable with it.

[Frances_Penfold]

That's what I do as well-- not that my lap times are anything to be especially proud of :)

But if you hit the boost pads before the drop, then use your turbo with some pitch control to keep your ship pointed downwards, barrel roll, and land so as to hit the boost pads at the bottom, you can get a respectable lap time with only a single barrel roll used.

To me, Tech da Ra white has a bit of "Staten Park" feel to it, which is a good thing, I love that track in Pure.

[Chrono]

In the future, Therealmat, can you refrain from posting 9 minutes after the deadline. I just finished finalizing today's scores, and now I have to go and add your times.

Anyway, after a slow week, we arrive at Week 4. Next week will be the end of the first month. There has been some talk of a new scoring system, and it will more than likely be implimented at the end of this week.

Next week is:De Konstruct White (Phantom)

enjoy

[Chrono]

I've been playing Tekken: Dark Resurection on my psp, along with some stupid late '90's stratagy games. I need to work on this time some though.

@ Frances- I'll send you a PM later this week about your score system and we'll figure out a good way to impliment it

[KANDANG]

howdy, i've got a few questions

1) is there a cut off point to send in your times? are we supposed to send in our times on the first day, because some people have said that I'm sending it late during the week. (like wed)

2) regarding the sharing of information... is the top pilot required to inform the other participants his methods during the middle of the week? if so, why call it a challenge. it should be called Weekly TT zone sharing or something of that sort.

As always, stay cool :mr-t

[DjManiac21]

The whole idea of a community is sharing.
There's no point in being part of a group of people if you don't share stuff with them.

I sincerely have no problem at all in discussing ways of getting faster times, it helps pilots that want to get better times and also makes is so much more interesting for everyone.

I understand if you don't want to share your "secrets", but then again it's no fun at all, and believe me, there's always a better pilot.

And on top of that, from discussion to achievement there's a gap which is bigger or smaller depending on each pilot's skills.

For example, was watching Asa's TT videos at Mad's and I just couldn't help and be amazed by his skills on 2097, but that doesn't mean that now that I know how he got those times I will be able to get them as well.

This is why I don't really like your attitude, I know you are a good guy and a very skilled pilot, but in my opinion, if you truly want to be a part of a community you have to do more than just beating everyone every time.
This is not meant to be aggressive in any way, please excuse me if I'm coming out wrong.

In regards to posting or discussing your times, if everyone would just come here and set times it would be tedious and uninteresting.

I think maybe you are a very competitive person, I say this because I am as well, but one might be losing on the real benefits this awesome community offers. ;)

[Lance]

Well said, Dj.

[Asayyeah]

Amen to that :) ( stevie and I)

We spent lot of time Stevie and me on that Phantom challenge. 1st we tried to understand this track as much as we can, so here's our result :

- Throw your turbo boost before the finish line as usual, try to be on the left side on the line then sideshift right+ pitch down the nose and try to control your ship to avoid walls , get those 2 speedpads on the row ( which are quite difficult ), on mag strip try to not move or correct the line of your ship, stay straight, at the end of the 1st mag strip try to sideshift on one of the 2 boostpads which are parallel, then pass over the single BP always nose down ( if you can) and there's a right curve with a wee dip where you can BR before the 2nd magstrip ( note this one is hard to get), GET the magstrip and NOT the left side without Magstrip just at the end of it before the last right curve throw your turbo boost + instinct BR and lol try to control the mega high speed to the finish.

Stevie gives me inspiration on the 1st BR and i advised him to go on the 2nd magstrip rather than jumping on the drop that lead us with not so bad laptime.

This is why helping people makes sense to lots of us here : we only got one part of the final solution so sharing our techniques make us stronger and also gives a chance to anyone who wants to bring his own stone to the building of knowledge.

[KANDANG]

This will be my last week of TTing challenge and I'll give you an example of what I've done in the videos.

1.This video (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=soS43UVfWJE) will be your reference this week.
2.Boost at the start and take the pads. Doesn't matter to me which one I take, just hit one and then stay to your left for the second pad.
3.Hasn't someone said that it's best to boost on the mag-strip? Well do it now because it's the best time to do so. :) As always, nose down when you deem fit, I don't remember when I do it. It probably comes instinctively.
4.Continuing on the mag-strip just hit whichever pad. Sometimes I do the left one sometimes i do the right one.
5. I like to nose down and then take those two pads on the S sections with a bit of side-shift tapping.
6.Before the mag-strip there is the small hump that you can do a BR (1.48 in video) Keep practicing and it'll be very easy to throw out.
7.After the 1st BR, stick toward the left side and do what I did at (0.46 - 0.49 in video).

All in all, 3 BR's for the best time.

[Asayyeah]

This is also meant not to be agressive :p (...) you see that there's 3 BR opportunities which gives me the top time for the TT challenge again this week.
Agressive no , arrogant yes at 100%.


I'm not trying to be cocky but have I kept things hidden from everyone before this? (check the videos)
We all appreciated your videos and posted congratulations for them ( and not a blind eye like you cunningly said) but it s not the matter of the question, you and I know videos SR and videos TT are different, turbo strategy is essential in TT.

As i told you through msn , immediately after reading this, you changed from the mate i knew 2 years and half ago. I have no power to let you understand how things and life are far better when you stay on the humble side, all the fantastic things you can receive by simply be real or natural.

Being a great pilot means here to be respected not only because you are fast but also by the way how you are dealing with others.

Arrogance has no place to stay here. You forget it's a friendly challenge.


Edit : seems you understood the 'message' through Msn, you edited your post : one good point for you.

[zargz]

frendly .. respect .. arrogance .. throught msn .. mm, you don't say

[rejj]

I personally don't think there should be any requirement to share information whilst competing during the week.. and doing so could also end up being counter-productive. If someone sets a good time and then posts with the line or tactics they use, others could end up spending the week trying to emulate that rather than experiment and find their own way.

This could have several effects:
* The act of experimentation and practice will only help the player refine and improve their own performance
* A different line may be discovered that is faster

Besides, the very core essence of competition is playing to win. Withholding information during the challenge can be an effective strategy.


Once the week is over and players have moved on to the next track, then exegetic discussion about the previous track can and probably should occur.


.. just my opinion.

[Asayyeah]

Fair point Reij, but again if you simply want to compete for only the win you got the Wipeout ranking tables for that, easy to connect and update your score alone.
Here again it's different : this challenge has got rules and we try to promote a system based on sharing our tips how to race. Few members made reproach it was an elitist site so we are proving here that we are open to newbees who want to improve their time and techniques.
If you don't want to follow these rules there is no obligation to be part of this challenge, i know a very talentous pilot who preferred to be away from it because he doesn't share our point of view, and i respect him for that.

[il_NIK]

I'm totally agree with DJmaniac. :+

I'm agree also with Asayyeah. Cause we know the very first time that this "Challenge" saw the sun.

It was in the Italian PSP forum, when Alterego and me invited all the other italian pilots (one or two I don't remember ;) ) to race a track a week on TT and BL on Pure

Thereason was to make growth up the italian pilots (no comment about this... :? ). How? We try to teach our (poor) techniques and raceline

After some unlucky weeks we "offer" this "challenge" in the WZforum, where it was really lucky.

Now I know that with the new WO Pulse a lot of new pilots come on in the community, so like a lot of new styles of racing, but also a new unknow "agonism".

I won.

Now we say, and not "do you want to try another way of piloting?"

We lose a great friendly sharing, I'm a little said for this, and also a lot of "old pilots" are so, I think.

But this is the game, there are a great number of superfast new fellow pilots and they want only win.






I'm sorry for my very poor english, I cannot tell you my real mind, I speak with the words od DJManiac and Asayyeah.

Let's be friend :beer

[RJ O'Connell]

De Konstruct can be a bit annoying, especially in the first corners where the speed can actually cause your craft to be thrown through the protective walls and off-course (this did happen to me!)

I feel that the people in the EU regions have a tiny disadvantage - they have Icaras and someone like myself, playing an AU copy in the US, has Piranha which is far less manoevrable. I'm not whining (ok, maybe just a little). I'm still doing as many TT challenges as possible. But hopefully those downloads will come to the US players (at a discount?) soon.

[Medusa]

"...if you simply want to compete for only the win you got the Wipeout ranking tables for that, easy to connect and update your score alone."

That's right. What's the point of competing in a community forum if no one will say how they're racing? That is when all the egos come out to play. Let's be friends, and remember it's not WipEout that makes us who we are. In the end it is a game and our humanity should always come through first!

Three BRs for the best time. If you use the turbo in the mag-strip, BR in the little hump in the esses - does that mean you BR instead of taking the right-hand mag-strip and BR in the little hump before the finish?

Is that possible?

[RJ O'Connell]

Your proposal suggests that you could actually have hangtime in that little bump in the esses, something that I have only achieved in a Piranha. Of course, there's a moderate right corner after that.

I tried talking the left side instead of using the mag-strip to the right and BRing off of that. Counter-productive much? >_<

[Nadia Elenova]

//RJ O'Connell - That's what I actually do, taking the left side instead of the magstrip and then BR. If it bounces enough when landing you can get another BR and boost right to the finishing line.

//Medusa - Would you mind to tell us where the third BR is? Please;)?

[Medusa]

LOL, I should have made my other post clearer - I'm wondering where the three BRs are, because KANDANG said there were three!

Maybe the BR in the esses and then a double(or linked, whatever you call it) off the jump instead of the mag-strip? Anybody know?

I should go race right now and see what I can manage...

[Frances_Penfold]

regarding the sharing of information... is the top pilot required to inform the other participants his methods during the middle of the week? if so, why call it a challenge. it should be called Weekly TT zone sharing or something of that sort

I'm happy to share my (feable) strategies for a track-- as I have done in this and other threads-- but I think that Kandang and Flashback Jack have a real point here.

IMHO, most of the fun and challenge in time trialing is in developing one's lines-- I don't understand why so many time trialing online groups focus on documenting them and breaking them down piece by piece. In Mario Kart, a game I have time trialed a lot, many new players to a particular game in the franchise would INSTANTLY go the strategy thread and study the Youtube videos, effectively killing any sort of exploration and independence. They simply wanted the best times so they could take the best ranks in the competition.

I don't think this is necessarily true at the WOZ. But I also don't know why folks want to read so much about other people's strats right away. I also don't think that sharing strats should be a REQUIREMENT for participating in a weekly challenge. Sure, it'd be a bit chump if folks never shared information. But that's not the case for either Kandang or for Flashback, they have in general been VERY forthcoming with textual descriptions and videos-- but also want to have some freedom to develop and perfect their strategies before sharing them.

My vote is for some sort of compromise, which allows players to participate as they want in a given challenge, but then perhaps encourage them later to divulge their tricks.

I would also add that I think there may be a bit of a cultural difference here-- folks from North America and Australia in my experience are more "lone wolf" and "independent" than their counterparts in Europe. Sorry to stereotype in this manner but I think, on average, it is true. Think about the new U.S. army recruiting slogan-- "army of one"-- WTF is that? I'm guessing it wouldn't work in France or Belgium, for example.

Anyway, just wanted to express my minority opinion-- I think there are two sides to the argument, and would suggest that some compromise would allow all wipers to participate in these weekly challenges.

:beer

[DjManiac21]

Those are really good points Frances. :+
I see why you think that people don't experiment on new lines due to following other pilot's tips, but this also happened during Pure and new lines and tricks were found again and again. This is only meant to be a friendly discussion more than a real competition. The idea of discussing different lines is not really to copy the other pilot's but to see which points we have in common when racing a new challenge every week. So one finds a good way not to slow down too much on a magstrip, other finds a BR in the same section and other pilot uses a boost plus BR, all different strategies which diferent pilots use to get good times. I know there are several BRs on most of the tracks, but that doesn't mean I can pull them off so challenges results will still be based on skill.
I never intended these comments to attack people or to start a discussion that will put distance between us, I just wanted to convey that sometimes keeping things too serious could have negative effects, when I play COD online and get mad because they shoot my ass I'm making it a serious deal, therefore I'm not having as much fun as I could, but some people have fun this way, and it's of corse, as valid as any other way.
I also had problems at first to share my strategies, the moment I was able to get my one and only phantom record on Pure's Vineta K, people started asking for advice, tips and tricks used during that TT session. But then I started sharing and felt so much better because I could be useful to the community in other ways :)

I'm not saying you have to do so, I'm just saying that if you give it a try it will certainly lead to discussion instead of imitation, and it's always a great deal of fun ;)

Back on topic, On De Konstruct I only managed to get one BR before the last mag strip on the right half of the track. I noticed that if you boost from previous lap in the beggining you can grind the wall to your left if you don't steer enough, which can work actually better than turning on that lap, but It's very hard to get it right, grinding the left wall and landing in the first speed pad on the left.
Boosting on the mag strip works good, but on the Icaras i couldn't get enough height on the s turn after the long mag strip to pull off a BR, I guess it can be done though.

I didn't have much time to race it all though, but I will certainly keep on trying to get a better time, and if possible, record a decent video for the grandchildren :P

Have fun!

[Frances_Penfold]

Wow, I am SO not ready for races at Phantom speeds :dizzy

Anyway, I found some time to do the De Konstruct challenge, got some "ok" times.

My lap record (with AGS) involved using the turbo on the early straight-away (with the mag strip). I followed the mag strip down the jump at the end, and managed to do a barrel roll using some pitch control and hitting the bump on the corner just right. Most of the laps in my Time Trial record involved using the turbo at the end of the track so I could more consistently hit the barrel roll on sequential laps.

Looking forward to next week's challenge :rock

[Chrono]

First of all, sorry. I was visiting Mad-Ice and Asayyeah last night, so I got in late today. It's all updated now. I had the pleasure of racing the new tracks with great players quite a lot recently, and I'm starting to become eager to throw them into the Challenge mix up. So, if you would let me know if your sporting a pack, so I can get an idea of how many people have it. Perhaps Asayyeah could create a poll. A speed class preference poll would also be very helpful. So post or PM me about that, I'd really like to know.

But you guys are crazy, speed freaks that don't care about matters like that. It's time to TT.

Basilico White (Phantom)

[Chrono]

We'll probably be instituting the scoring system Frances talked about several pages back. I'd like to work it in a season form, with seasons lasting 6-12 weeks...i dunno. Frances, if you wanna repost the system, or if someone could link it, that would be awesome.

[TheFrostE]

so this week is basilco white phantom?

[Frances_Penfold]

Sure, Chrono... here it is again, with some editing.

The approach is called "average finish" (AF for short) and is an unweighted measure of performance consistency-- as opposed to weighted approaches that sum total times (and thus weight longer tracks) or assign particular point values to different rank positions.

AF is calculated simply as the mean rank that a person has across all of the tracks included in a challenge... and thus has a minimum value of 1.0 (the best possible score).
The AF measure is intuitive because it corresponds to your relative ranking in individual challenges-- if you have an AF of 1.5, you were generally the first or second ranked person in a given track. It is a continuous scale that evaluates everbody, so it provides incentive for both top and bottom ranked racers.

Like other "global" measures of performance, special consideration is needed for missing data (i.e., when some participants don't complete all challenges).

Two possible approaches might be (1) to only include folks that have completed all challenges in the final ranking at the end of the month; or (2) to assign folks that do not complete a challenge the highest numerical rank (so if 10 people participate in a given track, then anybody that doesn't participate gets a score of "11" for that track). Personally, I would probably favor the second approach for our weekly challenges.

You can read more about AF-- which is used heavily in Mario Kart time trial competition-- here: http://www.mariokart64.com/

You can see a full-blown example, used for all tracks on Mario Kart DS, across >500 time trial competitors, here: http://www.mariokart64.com/mkds/afn.php?cfilter=&full=on

[RJ O'Connell]

Jeez! I thought my 17.79 was a pretty hot laptime and in comes alterego with a sub-17 lap on his first submitted attempt! O_O

(...that Icaras Pack can't get to the States soon enough...)

[il_NIK]

SIMPLY STRATEGY this week for Basilico White (I think so, have you other lines?):

guide your ship close to the wall of every curve of the track sideshifting and use the d-pad at the same moment for whose, like me, that are not be able to use the "nose-down" technique.
So you remain glued to the track.

I think that the critical point is on the double curve after the initial "S"; strategy is to hit the BP on the right side, but immediatly close to the left without nose up or losing speed.

BR on the drop, and turbo on the straight line of finish.

[RJ O'Connell]

Okay, now the times are coming up...

[Chrono]

Sorry about lack of updates this week, again. Anyway, I was pleasently surprised by the amount of people that came out. Unfortunatly, I won't be able till a bit later tonight, so you can use that time to work on your score.

Sorry again, I blame Asa for distracting me. We're going to step it down to Rapier for the first race of the new season

[RJ O'Connell]

Heh - it's a worthwile distraction. I was hoping we'd get an extra week for entries myself XD Oh well!

OMG - Very great times there Stevie! I thought for sure we'd be looking at a 1:26 time to beat and here you go setting a 1:25! Bravo! :clap

[stin]

Thanxs! :)

So, what track this week?

stevie:)

[Frances_Penfold]

We're going to step it down to Rapier for the first race of the new season

I'm definitely ok with that! My pit crew is getting tired of repainting my AGS following all that wall scraping at Phantom speeds :lol

[RJ O'Connell]

Apexes, Frances - Apexes.

[Lance]

Apices?

[RJ O'Connell]

Assegai. ;) When will we see the updated points?

[Chrono]

I'm sorry I've been ill these past few days and haven't updated. There will be an update later today, at some point. I would now but I need to try and get some sleep

This week is Arc Prime Black (Rapier). DO NOT POST YOUR ARC PRIME TIMES UNTIL I UPDATE THE PREVIOUS WEEK, OR YOU WILL LOSE YOUR TIME. I also may make a public spectacle of you and potentially call a silly name.

Again sorry, ball was officially dropped by me this past week.

[RJ O'Connell]

That'll give me enough time to make my first draft times look competent XD

[phl0w]

:+ Awesome track, but Rapier? Why...?

[Asayyeah]

Congrats to Stevie for Basilico : under 1.26 is awesome score :+

Ok let's race Arc Prime black rapier.
Btw i deleted the race&laptime from everyone on basilico : you can now add your scores.

[zargz]

:+ Awesome track, but Rapier? Why...?Do you want this to be the Eternal Phantom Challange? Why...? :-

[phl0w]

Not at all, I think it's very good to mix Speed Classes like we did with Pure's S.W.TT Challenge. Only reason I didn't participate so much is, that I don't like Pulse's tracks in general, that's all. However, if I happen to like a track, like Basilico last week or this week's Arc Prime, I'd love to race it on Phantom, for obvious reasons- who doesn't think "Phantom"' when he reads "Wipeout"? ;)

[Lance]

(Thinks Venom) }Lance is too old for Phantom{

[TearsToShreds]

Times so far are incredible! So far my best LP is 0.24.88 with Icaras, and that wasn't a first attempt(...). It was a PL, missed no cursed BR and missed 1 BP. Any tips?

[alterego]

Hi All.

I'm not so fast as others wipers, like Stin or Asa, but in this track two brs are possible....

the first on the straight part of the track after the first little hill and the second on the little jump before the open part.

I think that the second one is hard to make because of the velocity in rapier and the first one has best effects if you pass over the bp before the little hill on the right side of the track.

Read You Soon
CdRom

[Asayyeah]

2 BRs : this is what i am doing , exactly where you described them, Romano.
About the turbo i find throwing it at the jump has the best effect on racetime but i may be wrong.

[phl0w]

I'm at the University right now and can't TT, but I thought about lines in my last class (bored ;) ) and I'm afraid there might be a 3rd exploit-BR. Need to look further into that when I'm back home.

[Asayyeah]

Actually you are right about that 3rd BR, if we think at the same : the one i tested was in phantom not rapier cause i am not so convinced by reliability of that one here : on the jump ( no turbo before in that case) i go on the right side do a BR and land on the mini low wall on the right where another br can be done.
I also got 2 or 3 times the opportunitie to make a double BR after throwing turbo like i described on previous post, it depends on how you land and get the boost after the jump, sometimes you enough high to do a 2nd in that open section.

[Frances_Penfold]

I think that the second one is hard to make because of the velocity in rapier and the first one has best effects if you pass over the bp before the little hill on the right side of the track.

I find that some pitch control (downwards) on the second ramp helps prevent the ship from making an awkward jump on the bump before the end of the ramp-- thus allowing me to more consistently hit the BR off the ramp.

Hitting the first BR is still a bit hit or miss for me, even when I hit the boost pad... :| Hopefully with some more practice I can get it.

[Asayyeah]

3rd ship tested for me and EG-X is awesome on that track&class , it's outclassing feisar & AG by far. Under 1.40 is possible with that ship ( not tested piranha & icaras yet)

[phl0w]

Fine, that 3rd BR is definitely possible, I pulled it off a couple of times, although never in a good run- obviously :lol. In the open section at the beginning of the last S before start/finish there are two ramps on both sides. The left one sucks you onto the wall, the right one though can be used to get airtime and do a BR in the process just like on Tech de Ra. You do miss two BPs and have to leave the racing line for quite a distance though, that's why I don't think it's much faster, if any at all.
I couldn't pull of a BR on your spot, Asa, though it should be possible.
That'd make 4 BRs on a technical course! :lol

[DjManiac21]

Hi guys!

It's good to be back, finally some time to devote to the lovely TT challenge.
@Phlow: I see what you say about the BRs, I just can't get any airtime from them, actually only tried the one on the right, I seem to hit an invisible something.

Anyways, I've been playing since I got home and I came up with a fun way. at least for myself, to improve my lines on a track.

I start off selecting the last ship available, if you have all packs it will be Auricom, then Harimau, etc.
I race 2 TTs with each ship, and post my best with each ship if I don't suck too much.

That way you are always getting something new in the challenge, and at the same time, rotate through all the ships available and decide which works best for you on that track! :D

I hope you find this as interesting as I do, it's just so much fun to play :+

Regarding my times and lines, I pretty much race the same line as everyone, except I boos on the stretch where you can get the first BR after the S section. I found that with AG and Triakis it was really easy to get an advantage over the other ships since they steer well on that S section.

Anyways I found that boosting after or while hitting the speed pad before the hill works great, you don't have to pitch and get a clean BR ready to take the fast left/right turns that follow.

I pitch up on both BRs though, I mean, to get extra air, but so far I found that the biggest gap between a good time and an average in this track is decided in the first S turn section.

I just try to get as many sideshifts as possible, and in that section especially, it really works.

As usual, nose down all the way :banzai

I'll see if I can get a decent TT video for this one :)

EDIT: Well then, here's the video, hope it helps as a reference :)

Google video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8454901804057693993&hl=en)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8454901804057693993&hl=en

Youtube, if you want to drop any comments there, you are more than welcome:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wo43clzfUF4

Side note: Everytime I upload a video I instantly get it rated with 1 star, how stupid... ¬¬'

[stin]

Chrono, At least, I`m trying to help you cos, I`m not working at the moment but I will go back to work eventually.

Just to keep my mind occupied.

So, what is the next track?, I will pick one next week.

stevie:)

[Chrono]

Hehe, it just always catches me by surprise. It's the last few weeks before the Convention, so lets step it up.

The Amphiseum Black (Phantom)
Let's see those Feisars
I'll update the scores alittle later

[Chrono]

I'm really struggling with this track. Mainly to blame is my lack of practice after Asa came here. I've only had a couple minutes to play on the train today (I just can't focus if friends are there with me not playing, their always trying to talk to you), and I went with Feisar. Doubt I'll time tonight for it, but tomorrow probably. Hopefully Dj and I will get some time tonight and I can suck it up online.

Next week will be phantom again, and something good. Gotta have something to talk about at the CONVENTION!!!

[Lance]

It's good to have friends who want to talk to you, even if that does sometimes intefere with playing the videogames. :) Friends are very important.

[Asayyeah]

So true :+

Amphiseum black, before i hated it 2 months ago, now i felt in love , i find my right flow with it.
I am using a lot of pitch here , mostly nose down. I turbo almost at the top of the 1st hill BR as close as possible from the ground and land around a left corner before BR again entering Mag Strip. Sideshift to cut a lilttle bit the next curve, next is airpin right : i am using nose down diagonal right. The long left curve i spent a long time before understanding it : i am tring to maintain my ship as close as possible inside the curve hit speedpads (the double or the single) and finishing by a right sideshift.
Last part of that track i am forcing me to nose down constantly

[Medusa]

LOL! I just discovered I could do one BR on this track (before the mag-strip)!

[alterego]

Hi Asa, hi all.


So true :+

Amphiseum black, before i hated it 2 months ago, now i felt in love , i find my right flow with it.
I am using a lot of pitch here , mostly nose down. I turbo almost at the top of the 1st hill BR as close as possible from the ground and land around a left corner before BR again entering Mag Strip. Sideshift to cut a lilttle bit the next curve, next is airpin right : i am using nose down diagonal right. The long left curve i spent a long time before understanding it : i am tring to maintain my ship as close as possible inside the curve hit speedpads (the double or the single) and finishing by a right sideshift.
Last part of that track i am forcing me to nose down constantly

I must test your line!

I use a totally different approach due to my low skills ability in nose down..... :(

After the start in the end of the left circular bend, I side shifting a little to fly and make the first BR, after the jump and the left large bend before the mag strip I make the second BR.
I pass over all the subsequent bp and in the airpin i choose a line from large left to right that pass very closer to the internal bend.
After this bend I use my turbo.
In the big left bend before the end I stay inside, possibly in the middle of the left part of the track.
I see the possibility of a third BR just before the end due to a little bump on the right of the track, but I've not skill enough to get it....grrrr!

Read You Soon
CdRom

[Chrono]

This week is Fort Gale White (Phantom)

More convention practice. It'll be a fun week

[Asayyeah]

Just a suggestion : due to that Special event coming ...TOMORROW!!! Yihaaa... ermmm sorry i am bit too excited here :g
We shall maybe delay till next week the end of Fort Gale Cahllenge?

[DjManiac21]

i guess it's the way to go, everyone is practicing for the convention! :P

[stin]

Yeah, agreed to spare another week, so these guys can enjoy themselves.

stevie:)

[Chrono]

yep, we'll drag this one two weeks, enjoy your extra time. Posting from the BRINKER right now

[Chrono]

I'm not sure what to do about this week. If people plan on throwing down a time, let me know, otherwise, I'll log the times, and we can come back to it later

[Chrono]

I'd like to bring the challenge back for HD. Probably the week after release. Think about that.

[KIGO1987]

Bring back the Challenge Chrono for Wipeout HD. These are great. Ill be there ready. I cant wait for HD to come out.

[Nadia Elenova]

Same here, I hope the week after the release to be NEXT week. :P