Plausible Ways To Spot a cheater

[mdhay]

Here are a few "things" that should not happen that I have spotted on my Feisar's maiden online voyage:

Bomb explosion at race start. Weapons get activated when you fly on an x pad. there are none on the grid.

Firing weapons without picking any up.
I personally 'tailed' a player to find this.

Any more that I've missed?

[BARTgai]

regaurding the explosion at start. that is normal when someone has left the game, their ship is still there, but explodes at the race start

[Frances_Penfold]

Haven't been online with Wipeout Pulse as much as some other folks here...

But based on experience with other online racing games-- you can't NECESSARILY assume that another player's not appearing to go over a weapons pad necessarily means that they didn't go over the weapons pad.

You also can't NECESSARILY assume that if you appear to come in first place, but actually get a second place finish, that the other player is cheating.

The images displayed by your screen are your PSP's best guess about what the other player is doing, based on the information that it is receiving at any given moment. The other player's PSP has the final say about what was and wasn't done in the race.

The Mario Kart community when through all this in 2005/2006 when MKDS took the franchise online for the first time. No doubt there were (and are) real cheaters in MKDS, and also now in Wipeout Pulse, but you need to be cautious in interpretting what you are seeing the other player do on your own screen :)

Repeated use of turbos, however, is pretty damn incriminating...

[mdhay]

@Bartgai: True, but this person did not leave at the start, but I seem to beleive he did not fire a bomb though, as I recognise the explosion type isn't from a Bomb, now.

@Frances_Penfold, I know I shouldn't have assumed, but I just want to physically obliterate anyone who cheats. No one might have as of yet, but I did put 'plausible' in the title.

Besides, as you say, quite agreeably, that a constant turbo is incriminating.If they want to be fast, why don't they just Barrel Roll off a jump? I do.

[Asayyeah]

incriminating high speed due to constant turbo : i agree
Same for leech beam which drain your energy more than 25% of your shield and let your ship blow up 80% of the time.

[zargz]

I'd say more 5 seconds http://geocities.com/zargz/leenden/mad.gif

[Frances_Penfold]

If they want to be fast, why don't they just Barrel Roll off a jump? I do.

Agreed 100% :)

So have any of these putative cheaters uploaded their ghosts to the website? That would be a convenient way to study what they are up to.

[Asayyeah]

something is telling me they can't :rock

[DjManiac21]

I found a webpage in where this "biscottealacrevette", his name on that forum, shows a video of the hack working, they actually use an autopilot wich lasts for 9 seconds, interchange weapons and hack through walls.

I have the link with me but can't post, rules state no link to these kinds of sites.

Just hope SL can find a way to stop this, maybe a patch or something, because it will get massive for sure when it hits the US, since more players are bound to play online there...

Sad...

[Frances_Penfold]

:(

I was hoping that whatever was being done would be kept quiet, so only a few resourceful hackers would do it... releasing the information online will encourage and facilitate the masses to try as well. I wonder what the equilibrial level of cheaters will be :(

At least we can lock down tournaments to unknown, outsider participants.

I guess that is one thing that your guys' Kai sessions had going for them-- hacker punks aren't going to both to figure it out just to race with a handful of dedicated wipers.

[DjManiac21]

I'm just worried about the records tables, they are brand new, great idea to keep people interested in time trials will noe be abused by hackers... I hope it doesn't, but I'm afraid it will be filled with bullshit times and will lose credibility...

Damn kids... I just hate it when people ruin things like this...

I'm really working hard on my times, I even finished the game so far trying not to take any false time due to DNFs, this makes me mad... :mr-t

[zargz]

yeh it seems to be spreading. besides lard_of_god and the bisquite git I've raced at leas two more suspected cheaters! :mr-t

[Lance]

DjManiac, I hope you've sent that link to infoxicated in a PM.

[DjManiac21]

I will do it right away, probably he can forward it to someone in SL, it is in French so maybe I'll send it to Asa as well. Thanks for the idea :+

[Hellfire_WZ]

Really well done for finding that link mate, hopefully something can be done to keep tossers like this out of the game. Cheating in a game is one thing as you're really only cheating yourself, but in a online game you're cheating everyone else who is playing fairly and that is right out of order.

[Hyper Shadow]

Things noted from biscottealacrevette's video and Babelfished forum post:

-9 second autopilot without picking one up
-picking up weapons whilst under autopilot control
-a very long turbo boost (9secs perhaps) resulting in falling out of play area
-99 shots from the cannon
-Increased power from weapons

He used these in a pulse demo, but I'm guessing its whats being used in the retail version too.

[Frances_Penfold]

^^
You mean the old Pulse demo from summer 2007? Perhaps that is how the hacks became used so quickly following the commercial release of Pulse-- somebody illegally obtained the demo, hacked it, and then just waited for the retail version to ruin everybody's day.

[Hellfire_WZ]

The increased weapon power would account for how some people have been killed by his leech beam while at full energy, so it makes real sense that this is what's being used in the full game

[Lance]

.
Please stay in accordance with Rob's policy; I suggest that you not discuss his activities in any more detail.

The guy is a hacker, not a racer.
.

[BARTgai]

people who hack and cheat make me sick. if they are that bad at the game and dont want to improve by playing CORRECTLY, then why the hell did they buy the game??

[mdhay]

Who knows, after all, if they're just kids, then I'm ashamed to be thirteen. If they're adults, then God 'elp 'em. Speaking of God, that :turd - of - lord is absolute crap on Resistance: Fall of Man. I killed him 24 times in a row back in March![Though I'm crap now].

[NeXaR_QroN]

then why the hell did they buy the game??

What makes you think they actually bought it anyway?

[Asayyeah]

Thx for the PM Mauro, i registered into their site and posted there to explain ( in french) why that guy is ruining our precious game, the 2 admins read me carefully and decided to edit his post and locked the thread. I googled his nickname to see if he was posting this elsewhere : i haven't found new posts.

Last night i also tested original demo disk ( my precious xmas gift from Dag) online , but it's not working at all , i access to a blank universe and only thing to do is to deconnect : good point with that .
Originally i was suspecting the cheaters to use the demo online cause it's 15% faster than original Pulse umd and also because leech beam in that version is deadly too powerful ( like it's described in another thread) : hopefully it's not as simple as that , that is reducing the probabilities of seeing cheaters online.

[zargz]

good to hear that, arno! :)

[BARTgai]

What makes you think they actually bought it anyway?

well, thats true. i saw some video of a guy who downloaded the full version in a torrent, and tried playing, but sucks badly. very sad how people have no lives...

[NeXaR_QroN]

Last night i also tested original demo disk ( my precious xmas gift from Dag) online , but it's not working at all , i access to a blank universe and only thing to do is to deconnect : good point with that .
Originally i was suspecting the cheaters to use the demo online cause it's 15% faster than original Pulse umd and also because leech beam in that version is deadly too powerful ( like it's described in another thread) : hopefully it's not as simple as that , that is reducing the probabilities of seeing cheaters online.

Maybe the adress/IP/whatever the game connects to is in a file within the UMD, and they managed to use the one from the final version with the demo?

I don't know if they did it that way, but I don't think it would be more complex than that, IF the game client version is not checked server-side.

[lunar]

Cheats are very easy to spot, particularly on the times rankings, and if Sony has the will to delete or block their PSN accounts then the problem will easily be solved. I knew GoL was cheating even before I had the game, as did many of us, so it`s not hard. It only requires Sony to want to stop them.

Maybe I`m imagining it, but doesn`t Xbox Live have a system whereby they can detect a hacked 360, and the user/system is banned from the service, thereby helping cut down on hackers and cheats? If Sony could come up with something similar it would be the ideal solution for everyone whose priority is playing a clean and fair game.

[phl0w]

That's MS's way of dealing with things. Punishing many for mistakes of a few.
You can't ban thousands of diligent PSP owners that can handle their "customized" systems with responsibility, just because a handful can't.
Any online game suffers from cheaters, that's what password protected games are for. The persistent cheat-free online world is an illusion, as long as games keep dividing good from bad players, i.e. make you compete. Competition is corrupted, get used to it ;) Which shouldn't imply that I'm fine with it. It's just that there's no possibility to ban cheaters entirely, but enough options for those who want a clean environment to play in such.

[lunar]

I think MS`s approach is entirely reasonable. There`s no punishment involved if you just want to play the game as it was meant to be played and use your system on the basis it was sold. It`s a purely hypothetical point on which we won`t agree, but I don`t see why we shouldn`t be asked to make a choice: "customize" or play online. We weren`t offered both when we bought a PSP, and we`ve no right to expect both. I agree that every online game suffers from cheaters, but if we just accept it there`s little point having the feature. If people can cheat plenty of them will, and if allowed they will make a mockery of every popular online game in the end, in my opinion. Unless you whack them down with a very big stick you won`t stop them. But it`s only a theoretical argument, and I doubt we`ll ever have to make this sort of choice anyway.

[rageagainstgeorge]

Is it actually against the PSP EULA or TOS to load custom firmware ontol your PSP? If it is, then Sony are quite within their rights to ban you from using it online.

Sorry it's about custom firmware, but it'd be interesting to know the answer.

[phl0w]

Judging from the little red rectangle below your post counter you shouldn't be asking those questions, at least not here. And neither should I, what with having received my first infringement recently.:?

[rageagainstgeorge]

Yeah, I noticed it too. No idea what is for if it is recent though. I noticed it before I made the above post. (At least I think I did, I could be mistaken)

[zargz]

I think MS`s approach is entirely reasonable... We weren`t offered both when we bought a PSP, and we`ve no right to expect both.

Is it actually against the PSP EULA or TOS to load custom firmware ontol your PSP? If it is, then Sony are quite within their rights to ban you from using it online.agree with both of you.
if that's the price to pay then be it! :+

[zerojay]

Considering the fact that they silently support custom firmware and use custom firmware and homebrew users to see what features they should offer next in their official firmware updates, I do not see any blanket banning of custom firmware users happening.

[q_dmc12]

... releasing the information online will encourage and facilitate the masses to try as well. I wonder what the equilibrial level of cheaters will be :(

SOCOM: FTB 1 and 2:cold

[infoxicated]

Yeah - both were ruined online by custom firmware cheaters.

It might be that grouping together and organising games outwith the lobby system is the way to ensure that you're playing against folk you can trust.

Personally I'd freeze the PSN account of anyone who is proven to be a cheat. The trouble is always with proving it, though.

[Neverdown]

Agreeing with Infoxicated; to prove the cheaters you must have screenshots or videos. The video's aren't that hard to make. But because you need TV-out to have a clear shot because there is no camera recording, makes it hard to verify. There isn't something like a PSN computer that monitors every race, right?

[orgy]

It might be that grouping together and organising games outwith the lobby system is the way to ensure that you're playing against folk you can trust.


thats also what ive encountered. games that were organized in the channel were the most exciting i had this far.
1) you can talk to your "enemies" between the races (talk about what has happend, what track/class to chooose next
2) people dont quit during a race
3) the chance that people join the channel and still cheat is quite low

[rdmx]

Well, get on yer bike! Get in the irc channel! :)

[lunar]

I aqree that proof of cheating in online play is tough, but if someone submits obvious cheat times to the tables then that could be all the proof that is needed to take action, delete their times and freeze their accounts, and in the process they`ll be frozen out of the online game too.

None of this stops us playing online amongst known fair players, and that`s a great thing to have, but it`s a pity to see a few sickos try to spoil all the hard work that`s gone into certain features, like the rankings.

[zargz]

I think everyone who has a slim psp can easily record races, even if it's on an old vcr tape! http://geocities.com/zargz/leenden/old.gif

[Frances_Penfold]

Yeah-- just for shits, I think I'm going to try recording some races using my wife's digital camera, while playing with TV-out on my PSP slim. I'll just use a tripod positioned 5 or 6 feet from the TV, and slightly off to one side (so that I can actually play at the same time!).

BTW, Wipeout Pure and Pulse look really, really nice on a mid size'd 480p LCD screen. No doubt it'll look like ass if you have a giant HD TV but on a smaller TV, it's very nice.

[q_dmc12]

Yeah - both were ruined online by custom firmware cheaters.

.....that's not entirely accurate...but I digress

[Asayyeah]

Tell me if i am wrong here SL or Rob but apart from real wellknown cheaters ( GoL & biscotteala : especially this fking last one who has tried to expand his how-to-do cheat on a french forum) those who are running the game through their custom firmware ( even set up as default like few of them said) generated a real pain in the arse when playing them online ( no offense to my fellow friends ) but that is true.
... ships not fully visible ( lack of frames due to running different speed of mghz ) weapons seems to have less effect on them ( time necessary to finally lock a missile on them or just see the rockets you shot are going through them and not have any impact and their ships)
... i remember a night with only 3 other pilots ( very talentous : no doubt at all) but laggy as hell : 2 of them where using CF. The same night with 7 pilots and their ships fully visible = no lag at all...

Id like to know from SL if what i am saying makes sense about CF : if not i ll stop whining

[NeXaR_QroN]

I can't answer you 100% sure, but if everything is defaulted, I don't think it should make any difference. Except, of course, the loading times if running the game from the stick.

I don't think SL could answer you 100% sure either, that would be a question to ask to the CFW developer himself... also, it's not likely they test the game on other FWs than the officials, right?

BTW, are CFW discussions not forbidden on this board?

[infoxicated]

.....that's not entirely accurate...but I digress
It is as far as I'm concerned - when folk are shooting you through walls from the other side of the map in SOCOM, the game is ruined. You cant be doing that with official firmware and an unhacked version of the game. Therefor, custom firmware equips the cheaters to do as they like and ruin the game for everyone else.

If there was no custom firmware then you wouldn't be having your online WipEout games ruined by cheaters. It's a cancer - anyone enjoying the slim benefits it might give them is doing so at the expense of all the damage it's doing out there. Dark Alex and those like him can die in a fire.

[Dogg Thang]

I completely agree about the custom firmware. I would have thought blocking it somehow from online would be the only foolproof way of stopping cheaters. Tackling it on a case by case basis just isn't practical when numbers increase and it means that Sony (or whoever) can only react after people have already cheated, meaning they'll be a step behind.

Blocking out modded machines worked on Live.

[Sausehuhn]

I hve no problems with custom firmwares as long as you use them with good purpose. Where's the problem if I play WO3SE on my PSP as long as I own the game and it's not in the online store? And where's the problem if can make in-game screen from every game? Or play my old N64 games on the go? The list is endless.
Custom firmwares can be a lot fun and enjoying - I had one as well.
It's always the way you use it that makes things good or bad. And that doesn't count for custom firmwares only.

[zerojay]

If there was no custom firmware then you wouldn't be having your online WipEout games ruined by cheaters.

Cheaters will find a way to cheat, no matter what. If custom firmware didn't exist, they'd find another way to do it.

And by the way, blocking modded machines *didn't* work on Live either.

[Rapier Racer]

Agree with Foxy. I hate custom firmwares and people who create them I do wish Sony could close them down, but when one arsehole goes out of business another group comes along and continues. Heres hoping HD can cut down on cheats if not eliminate them. I've not really experienced much cheating online with the PS3 as such.

[Flashback Jack]

Misplaced hate.

The problem isn't custom firmware, it's publishers that assume their games won't be stripped down and hex-edited by nosy kids (which is the case with Pulse), so don't take the precautions to safeguard their code as a result.

Custom firmware, while I recognize represents the PSP equivalent of the antichrist to some of you, is responsible for some of the recent innovations (custom themes and memory stick playable games) that you are currently enjoying, all the while oblivious of precisely who influenced those innovations. Nobody who owns a PSP is a world apart from either custom firmware or the residual influences of it.

- F

[Dogg Thang]

Custom firmware... is responsible for...

...also facilitating the use of cheats in Pulse, as you said in the previous version of the post.

Personally, I don't think custom firmware is the antichrist. But, for all the good things (I won't dispute them), it also facilitates piracy and, now, cheating in Pulse. And even those who'll sing the praises of custom firmware and enjoy it without using it for piracy or cheating or anything dodgy know well what it is - unofficial firmware that Sony have no obligation to support or tolerate.

And being the current means to facilitate the cheating, locking it out of online games is a catch-all way of putting an end to it. Maybe hackers will find a way to cheat on official firmware after a while. Maybe they'll get the custom firmware undetectable online. But, in the meantime, there would be cheat-free games.

[lunar]

I support that DT, and also RR and Foxy 200% !! Whichever way anyone tries to swing it, CFW is a necessary condition of piracy and serious cheating. It`s indefensible to anyone committed to having the best possible chance of fair online play.

[phl0w]

I hope all this talk about CFW won't be interpreted as discussing mentioned matter by infoxicated. Afterall the discussion is about ways to stop the cheating online.

Seeing that recent CFW even abuse Sony's updater to install the CFW itself(!), I don't think there's a way to spot those systems using one. They'd just tag it like Sony's and there you go. Whether or not hacked code made companies implement features officialy is a moot point, you just don't know what they would've come up with on their own, but it definitely keeps them on the go.

It's beyond me why some can't live with the fact that they have to create their own safe environment if they want to compete fair and square. It's like that in ANY sport. If you participate in public races and someone is cheating just quit or finish second, but I guess some get excessively nuts about their statistics, they'd even voluntarily submit to rigorous rules just to keep their stats clean :evil I don't find another explanation.

[Flashback Jack]

That's fine, and your position is an acceptable one, Lunar, but we default to having to qualify the statement by saying while most cheaters are custom firmware users, all custom firmware users aren't cheaters. Shades of grey. No cheating aside from misusing obvious glitches would be possible if software publishers locked their games down with adequate protection. To assume, whether consciously or unconciously, that some bored kid won't poke his nose into your code and publish his god mode codes online for other bored kids to find and use, is to assume dangerously IMO.

The Pulse hacks circulating were caused by opening a text file within the game and changing a few values, hacks made easier to execute with custom firmware, but in this case wholly not dependent on it. As far as I'm concerned, the ground zero source of the problem isn't the firmware, it's the game.

An untouched copy of Pulse played under custom firmware is no different (aside from loadtimes and single-player CPU speed options) than playing the game under official firmware. Those are the facts, but it appears people want to believe custom firmware automatically grants people godhood in every game loaded under it. Online, the disparity is reduced to nearly zero, with the CPU automatically downclocked by the hardware to match those of everyone else online with them. Granted they might end up waiting at the starting grid for your UMD to continue loading the level, but the overall advantage is far less than people think it is.


- F

[Dogg Thang]

Wholly not dependent on it? So how are people cheating without custom firmware? Compiling and pressing ther own UMDs?

[Flashback Jack]

I didn't say they were -- I said custom firmware isn't a hard requirement to get this particular cheat to work. The manner in which these cheats have been "created" are firmware independent. They would work in official firmware too if people were pressing their own UMDs and some kid were selling them on the side at the local game shop, so the argument that the problem is custom firmware is tossed out by that logic. What does this reduce to? The open-book game being the problem, not the firmware.

- F

[Dogg Thang]

Yes and if they bred genetically-engineered elephants with PSP dev-kits built in they could cheat with those too. You're talking completely hypothetically. People aren't pressing their own UMDs and, unsurprisingly, they aren't breeding PSP dev-elephants. So neither point matters.

[Flashback Jack]

I've seen at least one UMD pressing machine on Ebay within the last two months, so no, I do not speak hypothetically. And short of providing full-disclosure of precisely what the punks edited within the game, which does not require any degree of programming aptitude to spot and modify, your assumption that one requires programming skill to effect the hacks is the hypothesis. That isn't to mention that the person who is thought to be the author of the hacks is a major homebrew developer within the PSP scene, is another of the many assumptions that I feel the need to correct.

- F

[Dogg Thang]

I'm not sure I implied it takes programming skill to run the hacks at all, did I?

[Lance]

The fact is that the cheats are enabled by the custom firmware, even if there are theoretical ways to accomplish it also. The problem, as usual, is the will to cheat. In practical terms in this case, disallowing the custom FW by coded file-locking and/or encryption would disallow the cheating done by the currently available method. Deal with that first. If another cheating method is later implemented despite its being more difficult and unlikely to occur than the one currently in use, then dealing with it can be attempted in its own time. The important thing is to stop the cheating now. It is useless to blame cheating on those who did nor foresee better how the weaknesses would be abused, but it is up to them to seek the cure and to implement it.

[phl0w]

I think the disussion is futile to the point that two fundamental principles seem to clash: The one being that a weapon is to be fired in the hands of people, rendering the object, i.e. the weapon, evil, while the other side (which I count myself to, and I think Jack either) makes people accountable for their acts, despite the opportunity.
Just because it's possible to do anything, doesn't necessarily mean that you're supposed to do so. The most important facet is that any possibility is needed, whether or not it results in good or evil acting, which results in our needing (is that even a proper gerund?) to concentrate our main focus on people choosing.

[zerojay]

As I said in the other cheater topic (maybe they should be merged?)...

Custom firmware doesn't have to be on the bad side of things. It's a tool... and as such, it can be used for good and evil.

There's nothing stopping someone from making a custom firmware module which blocks the use of standard cheating modules as well as verifying the underlying files used by Wipeout... hell, even recording a video of the session to memory stick while being played (which is already possible).

That would be the absolute best form of verification. Ghost ship + recorded video + verified good files/anti-cheat.

Just an idea.

[Lance]

.
Most of the recent posts, including mine, should be in the other thread or in one devoted to discussing the philosophy of cheating and proper assignment of blame. This thread is supposed to be about how to spOt cheaters. Please now confine the discussion in this thread to its original subject. We've gone offtopic at least long enough.
.

[CR4SH3D]

just wanted to check this for when i finally get a psp
IF you have something like pandora your running on your psp, and you play pulse online WITH the umd, it isnt going to mess about for other players is it?

[Lance]

.
Is that question about something that might give the appearance of cheating?
.

[Flashback Jack]

IF you have something like pandora your running on your psp, and you play pulse online WITH the umd, it isnt going to mess about for other players is it?

The answer is no. Pandora doesn't run unless you tell it to, does not remain resident in the PSP's memory, and is used for little aside from altering the EPROM in the battery.

- F

[CR4SH3D]

//lance
no i was just curious because id like to get a psp and get the most out of it, but the main reason would be to get pure and pulse and not cheat, i love wipeout way to much to bother doing that, i was just curious as to whether any form of "modded" psp would have a negative impact when playing online, sorry if it came across otherwise

//flashback jack
cheers for clearing that up

[infoxicated]

Okay, that's enough with the Custom Firmware talk.

Like Lance said, back on topic.

[mdhay]

Yeah, though I don't think there is a topic left anymore.

But I can't find any other ways that cheaters are behaving, but I'll keep editing the first post when I find 'em.

[Medusa]

I know that it's technically not cheating, but if someone racing online has a connection that's so slow that it is impossible to get a weapons lock on him, I consider that an unfair advantage. I had the misfortune of racing Nuit - I've read somewhere that he's not on CF but just has bad lag - well I don't care! It's flippin' aggravating watching his ship fly off the track into outer space and vanish, then have him 3 seconds behind, then suddenly appear 10 seconds ahead!!! Why go online if lag is that bad? It can't be any better racing on his end if it's just lag!!!! *ends rant*

Just had to get that out of my system.

[Sausehuhn]

Hm.
Maybe for him is just everything fine and he sees you laggy because of his own lag? I experienced that playing Xlink when my connection was laggy.

[Frances_Penfold]

I have no idea about Nuit or anybody else, but there are folks who purposely lag their online games to give themselves an advantage-- I think that's mostly for FPS games, however.

Otherwise, yeah, you probably look as bad on Nuit's game as he does on yours.

On balance, I have been fairly impressed with the smoothness of online play-- some folks do seem to have severe lag but that's the exception, at least so far, in my own experience.

[rdmx]

lag their online games to give themselves an advantage-- I think that's mostly for FPS games, however.
This can sometimes be seen in counter-strike. There are some console commands that determine how much data you send and recieve from the server. Some people make these as low as possible so no one can hit them. Although these people are subsequently banned as this is not allowed.

[Rapier Racer]

Heres a plausible way to spot a cheater, how about bringing that ban stick in here? 10 second advantage in a Feisar? Don't think so somehow thats just blatant.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b114/Assegai/cheaterneedshot.jpg

[infoxicated]

It's being dealt with, Stephen - we cant just go charging in with quick fixes or banning people left right and center, so we'd rather take our time to work out ways of eliminating erronous times, then deal with cheaters.

[Rapier Racer]

Yeah sorry :redface: I think I need to stay off the site till you guys fix it, cos when you log in then see that, self control flies away down Moa Therma. :mr-t

[Au_Xtr3me]

Why on earth would anyone go to all that effort to cheat when they are:

Soundly beaten by skillful players
Ganged up on in races
And labeled as pricks :frown:

seeing as all the record tables are shonked, perhaps on the US release, ALL the ranks are cleared and everyone is informed that they need to upload their profile. It should tidy things up and get rid of ridiculous 20 second venom times.

Some things may be latency issues mis associated with cheating.

Cheating comes in the form of
a: correctly associated impacts with weapons and no slow down
b: no apparent damage (eg not absorbing anything)
c: more speed boosts or barrel rolls than is possible in one lap (0-4)
d: consistent behaviour of the above

[realityhole]

just been reading through the posts, took quite a while :D
anyway, i was surprised at the custom firmware part, a friend has cfw and he's overclocked the psp, so this would make games LESS laggy i think, of course it could be annyoing waiting for the loading if someone on a cfw hadn't overclocked if they were running a pirated game. To be honest with my official psp i have had some issues too, i was shot as with rockets and they seemed to pass through (or maybe they wever VERY close, lol), and the psp kept crashing at connecting to universe, although it worked after I restarted my router. anway, lets stop talking about this (not sure if we are allowed too, sorry if were not but as there were other posts i assume we are), and discuss ways people with official psps might be cheating. By lagging their connection they would have an advantage...

[zargz]

hey there! I raced you yesterday :+

welcome here!

and don't forget - Never DC! 8)

[realityhole]

Hi zargz, i remember that, did i disconnect or was it with someone else? I was having router probs yesterday so if I did then sorry :D

[zargz]

wasn't with me! 8)

[infoxicated]

Well then why did you say this to him, zargz?

and don't forget - Never DC! 8)
As you've said yourslef, DC's can be caused by a PSP dying or by network problems. You might as well have said "remember not to cheat", because that's the implication. :-

[realityhole]

sorry zargz for getting the heat on your back, its not a problem, but i am in a game now, there seem to be some cheaters in it, im gonna sit here until they pass and have a look if they're cheating. OK a 10sec lap has to be cheating!!! guy is T-Rex29
anyway zargz, i know this isn't on the topic, but u haven't responded to my pm, do you want a game or not?

-------edit----------
found the wipeout zoners tournament

[zargz]

aw, didn't check the pm yet.
you can go here and add everyone to your msn and leave yours as well, if you have one :)
http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4338

or here if you have irc

http://wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4363

and yeh, 'll be there in 5 ;)


Well then why did you say this to him, zargz? eer.. just a friendly reminder, foxy.

[realityhole]

[QUOTE=zargz;79159]

and yeh, 'll be there in 5 ;)

lol, we need to set something up for this kind of thing, i'll make a new thread called Online Games or something like that, have a look

[lunar]

Following what Reality Hole said, it`s worth keeping an eye on TRex29, I`m sorry to say. When I got hit with an everlasting leech beam, in a race last night, he was in the race and the other two were trusted WZ members. Hardly proof of cheating, but it`s worth watching what he does I think.

[zargz]

roger that :robot

[BARTgai]

i just raced T-Rex29, and he seems fine to me.

[zargz]

yah, same here. one on one nothing out of the normal :)

[T-Rex29]

I’m new on this forum and what a surprise when I see my name in this thread. Realityhole : “there seem to be some cheaters in it, im gonna sit here until they pass and have a look if they're cheating. OK a 10sec lap has to be cheating!!! guy is T-Rex29”. You are crazy man. I’m at the opposite. I hate the cheaters. Don’t remember your tag online, so I think we raced together a very few time. You are speaking very fast on internet.
Lunar : “Following what Reality Hole said, it`s worth keeping an eye on TRex29, I`m sorry to say. When I got hit with an everlasting leech beam, in a race last night, he was in the race and the other two were trusted WZ members. Hardly proof of cheating, but it`s worth watching what he does I think.” Sorry Lunar but I have nothing to do with that. I have seeing one or two times races with a same racer in twice places. Don’t know, but I think there are some little bugs in the game.

Anyway, thank’s to Frances and Emwu to have said in another thread : Frances_Penfold:
I have raced T-rex multiple times and have not personally noticed anything odd-- if I recall correctly, he's a good sport as well, since he doesn't drop even when he's loosing repeatedly. Here's hoping that he's an honest wiper!

Emwu :I have the same opinion as Frances about T-Rex29. He never quits ,fights to the end of the race (not like the others who as they see they are losing they just disconect)I had a lot of races with him ,yesterday as well and I really think he is alright racer.

Thank’s also to Bartgai and Zargs.

There is nothing worse the wrong accusations. Sorry for my bad english.

[Medusa]

I personally get verry suspicious while racing online with one I haven't raced with yet. I don't know if I speak for everyone but I think my love of wipeout makes me extra-suspicious of all the other racers in a game (the ones I don't know), when strange things start to happen. Especially something like what happened to lunar. There are a lot of weird little bugs in Pulse it seems, and it's too bad they show up online. Unfortunately there are cheaters too, and cheaters explain strange occurrences easier than bugs do.
I hope you don't feel too bad T-Rex29, "we love wipeout forever" and God help whoever cheats in a wipeout game!!

I hope I haven't made any outright accusations, sorry if I have, but I think I've mentioned some suspicions about different racers. There just isn't any outright way to prove someone a cheater unless you're a top-of-the-line pilot, is there? Which was supposed to be the main point of the thread, I think - to find plausible ways of spotting cheaters...

[lunar]

I`m sorry about what I said, T-Rex, but we have seen some strange happenings from cheats in this game, unfortunately, and we should warn other players when we think we might have seen them. I think you were in an unfortunate place when a strange bug happened to me, and I jumped towards a wrong conclusion too soon. As Medusa says, we become suspicious of what some players are doing, because all we want is fair play and equal conditions in all of our races. Anyway, I apologise for that, and welcome to the site. I look forward to racing you.

[T-Rex29]

Thank’s Lunar for your apologies. Don’t worry , just a little adrenalin rise when I saw my name on this thread. Hope racing you again soon.

[zargz]

hey, t-rex! welcome to the wo zone! ;)

[Frances_Penfold]

Howdy T-rex, great to have you on this site. It's a great place-- hope you decide to stick around :)

Please forgive the insuations-- there are definitely some people that have hacked Wipeout Pulse and are cheating, so folks at this site are a bit sensitive to the issue.

On the issue of cheating, I must say that I haven't directly observed it very much, excepting some of the ridiculous records that have been set for time trials and speed laps. So either (a) there is a relatively small population of cheaters; or (b) the cheaters suck too much at the game to effectively use the cheats to beat skilled, honest wipers. Or maybe I'm online at the wrong time of day to observe the cheaters in multiplayer games.

I am worried about what will happen when the game reaches North America though :(

[zargz]

meaning there are more cheaters there?? :lol

nah!

well, as far as I know for sure there are only two so that's pretty good! :D

[Amaru]

If you still are referring to biscotteala and GOD_of_LORD, both are french, if that can be of any relevance to this topic. =^.^;=

[BARTgai]

I am worried about what will happen when the game reaches North America though :(

yes, us Americans think we are so good with our hacks. i dont want to offend anyone, im an American too :) , but i have noticed a lot of stuff of the sort happening here.

[infoxicated]

I think it's more a reflection of the sheer volume of people, rather than any propensity for cheating. :)

[mdhay]

He isn't a cheater. I added him as a friend on my ps3 and asked him.

[kekken3]

Thats funny and sad. Relieving and disappointing. :dizzy

[mdhay]

How is it sad?

[Asayyeah]

In a french forum ( got link for anyone...in french ;) ) gol was claiming he wasn't a cheater at all , only conceding he got a psp modified + a soft hacking the stats of multiple games but of course adding he never used it for playing ... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

1 thing is clearly evident for me after being almost killed by his energie drain 20 sec lasting the 1st time i went online, he was using a cheatcode, question is if he is not using this anymore, or with less visible cheats, imo i don't care anymore about that non-trusty guy.

[lunar]

Go on wipeout-game.com. Check out Moa Therma White/time trial/best race/venom. I wouldn`t believe he was clean until I got an explanation of how that time got there.

[Rapier Racer]

I'm disappointed I still haven't had a chance to kill this guy :brickwall

[zargz]

easy, braveheart (http://geocities.com/zargz/az/zargz_braveheart.jpg)! :D

[swift412]

Better watch out, next time you race zargz he'll be shooting fireballs from his eyes and lightning from the rear of his ship =P

[Medusa]

What's sad is unless you really know someone personally and can see them offline, you'll never really know for sure if they told you the truth.

[zargz]

don't worry, I believe you, though we never met! :D
ans I'll see you soon online in about 4-5 hrs!

[realityhole]

just like to say sorry to T-Rex29, mainly because I experienced a weird bug where my speed boost never dissipated and I stayed at a constant Phantom speed level despite being on flash. There are bugs in pulse, and sorry to T Rex if he isn't a cheater

[T-Rex29]

OK Realityhole, don’t worry, hope to see you online soon.

[Flashback Jack]

This is what the cheaters are up to lately:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10669139@N02/2249259800/

Max speed, extra long lasting shields and godawfully long autopilots. Lap 73 of 324?

- F

[Rapier Racer]

Yeah well, roll on HD.

[Frances_Penfold]

Wow, awful.

Though, I'd sure like to play tracks on Wipeout Pulse for >70 laps (in Free Play mode) ;)

Seven (in Speed Lap) just ain't enough!

[BravePotato7]

Man I'm I'm trying so hard :( Lol, I started at 127! Watch out racers! Lol. See you all online ;)

Whats the fun in cheating online? Single player maybe, after you've beaten everything, or not, your business, but damn. I think cheaters are more likely to use Assegai because they're first on the menu. This guys sucks:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y71/brave7/WipeoutCHEAT01.jpg

[NeXaR_QroN]

That's probably a broken record more than a cheater. Or so it seems...

[infoxicated]

Nah, it's in time trial - you cant die in time trial so the profile glitch does not apply.

There are three players that we know and love who are in for a bit of a shock in the very near future. ;)

[guillaume]

Can't wait :)

[DjManiac21]

Great!

That sounds promising 8)

Please get rid of the cheaters...

[Roz]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10669139@N02/2249259800/

Oh, how I laughed with that 3589 second autopilot.

[JABBERJAW]

I think I lost to that biscotti guy the other night 3 out of 4 times. It seemed like he hadd infinite turbos in the game, because he was riding off walls, then constantly passing me right after. Does anyone know if that is what he is doing. Can someone give a list of the known cheaters, so we don't have to play them and waste our time. Iv'e really enjoyed playing(metropia) online, except for that guy.

[Mad-Ice]

This morning I raced a few Single Races and some Tourneys, all went well untill 'de_1337' came into the room. A lot of strange things happened like: he absorbed when there were no weaponpads, he used two many turbos, he dropped two bombs in a row when there were no pads to pick up. We were flying mostly on Flash. I did perfect laps all BR's and picked up turbo's too eventhough this guy could pass me and when he did, he did things like I described above. When he couldn't beat me in a race I didn't get any points, is this accidental or is it possible for some people to do strange things to the pointssystem? When he disappeared everything went back to normal!!

I felt like I was in the Twilightzone:bat

[infoxicated]

Sounds very much like a cheater - I'll add him to the ban list.

[Asayyeah]

De-1337 was listed as a possible cheater in a french active Pulse forum for the reasons Matthijs mentions above.

I was chatting last night for the 1st time with Eleven GG XX into that french site, he is a nice guy addicted to Pulse online with its beloved feisar but he is using orange livebox ISP which provides a crappy online ping to their users especially when they are hosting. He told me no ones from this french site mentionned he was having a bad connexion same for E-Kami. So it's most unlikely people are cheating online at the moment '(except de-1337) it's all mater of internet connexion and ping.
Do you remember that guy God-of-Lord, he is living on a south pacific island (Tahiti) the only way he has to connect online is not by Xdsl or cable , only by satellites which gives an awful latency to the servers : he was clearly unplayable with unbelievable reactions from his ship.

Edit few min later : i am now racing with de1337 let's see how it is
i joined a venom sr , his ship was barely playable , and after winning it , I was in charge of doing a new SR... i selected Phantom ( venom pfff) and that guy quit immediately...what a coward... or maybe like others mentionned it before , the cheatcode is not very useful in phantom...

[Rapier Racer]

Do you remember that guy God-of-Lord, he is living on a south pacific island (Tahiti) the only way he has to connect online is not by Xdsl or cable , only by satellites which gives an awful latency to the servers : he was clearly unplayable with unbelievable reactions from his ship

Is that what he claims? What about his single race records there was something fishy going on with those was there not?

All the more reason to password our games and post the password here, especially if there are a few zoners on who needs some little prick coming in and messing it all up.

[JABBERJAW]

How about when you hit someone with a weapon barely in front of you, they stop dead, you use a turbo almost immediately, take a nice turn, pick up another turbo, use it, then two seconds later they pass you. Does that sound like a freaking cheater, does to me imnsfho.
yes this happens with someone, and don't tell me it is lag. :) the smiley is for the person who would tell me this is lag. :( this is for the one doing it. This happened way more than one occasion, like infinite turbos, riding off the fing wall, and still passing me.

[omega329]

I was looking through the record tables and found this b*****d:
s/he appears to be using an assegai...
EDIT: AG-SYS, I stand corrected...

[mdhay]

Or rather An AG - SYS.

[blixabargeld]

We talked about it at the little italian meeting last friday, I think that these robbers should find something else to do, and not literally steal enjoiment to "serious" wipeout players.. (talking about online racing with unlimited turbo or shield)

[Rapier Racer]

Lucas2k isn't he on these boards I've seen that name about somewhere.

[Hellfire_WZ]

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/member.php?u=2860

Indeed he is...

[omega329]

Can I get banned for sending threatning private messages?
allthough that may not be him... I'll wait and see...

[Rapier Racer]

I doubt a threatening private message is going to resolve anything.

[Asayyeah]

I know that guy personaly ( he is a bit stupid sometimes) but he sincerely regrets what he was doing here and asked SL to delete his profile that will be done soon apparently.

I am gonna merged that thread to the old one refering to cheaters

[blixabargeld]

well, it doesn't matter more, he's not to blame too much for it. ;) after all wipE''out' it's just a game..
cheaters are everywhere in "real life" (know something about it, I'm italian..)

[omega329]

I know that guy personaly ...snip... he sincerely regrets what he was doing here
At least he has a conscience *cough*biscotelea*cough*GOD OF LORD*cough*. In fact I respect this guy, it's a slippery slope once you start cheating, the ease of winning and the good feeling that comes with it makes it hard to stop. I know, I've been there...

[mdhay]

(know something about it, I'm italian..)

:clap


Omega, You've been there?

[omega329]

Aye Martin... cable pulling and hacked tables, back in my dark days, before I saw the light that was the wipeoutzone.com forums. The I realised, there WERE people out there who just wanted to play games, not for the enjoyment of winning, but for the enjoyment of the race, the endless persuit of perfection. People who rated games by how much they enjoyed them and the spirit of them. Not by the graphics, the sound quality or whatever little hype the industry was going through. There was a place out there where people were not respected by thier ability but more so by their dedication to improving it. From my first hour at wipeoutzone.com I knew that I could call this place home.
And so, as my fanaticism of wipeout grew, so did I as a person, I gained freinds, became cooler (still don't know how), lost weight (I was really fat a few years ago) and got somewhere with my life.

Thank you Wipeoutzone.

Oh and if you meant Italy, yes, I've been there too.
</offtopic>

[locus2k]

I know I dont post here often and yes what I did was wrong but I wanted to see what would happen when cheaters post their times on the site.

After uploading my profile with the rediculous times I wrote the wipeout-game.com site an email asking them to remove my times since they are bogus and they did not. My times are still up there and they have not been removed. Obviously the site doesn't care about cheaters and wont do anything to correct this.

Anyways as everyone knows I have not posted any of my times on these forums because I am no where in the same league as the awsome people that post.

Since i summited those times I have stopped.

I'm sorry to those whom I offended and to those legit players who have awsome times and Im sorry to Assayeah for the trouble i caused him.

[Lance]

Nice apology, sir.

[Hellfire_WZ]

I've had a report of another dubious name from someone on the Facebook Pulse group. He played against someone called Remane on De Konstruct and said he experienced extremely erratic behaviour and saw him jumping off the mag-strip halfway along. It could just be a very laggy connection, but has anyone else played against him?

[Darkdrium777]

This behaviour corresponds to lag. Cheating is something else: permanent shield + autopilot + turbo.

[Task]

After uploading my profile with the rediculous times I wrote the wipeout-game.com site an email asking them to remove my times since they are bogus and they did not. My times are still up there and they have not been removed.And they're not going to be removed. The only people that care about the times in the tables are us, we are the police force. You'll have to create a new profile with the same name and everything, fill it with valid times, and overwrite the bogus times. That's the only way you'll fix the problem you created, you can't expect anyone else to do it for you.

There's a bunch of people in this forum though that will help you out any way they could with the whole "creating a new blank profile to overwrite the previous one" thing, and I'll bet we'd all be interested to hear about any problems you encounter and how well the process works!

Looking forward to hearing about it...

[supersocks]

Hass anyone realized how Assayyeah hass an obviouss cheat-time 23:18 with Feissar in Talon'ss Junction White venom?

Sscandalouss! ;)

[lunar]

Well, frankly, whoever put that there and vandalised the table can only be described as asshat. Maybe some people can`t live with the fact that Arnaud is capable of being the fastest and playing fair at the same time.

On the next page we have Bombastik 99 and Bombastik 900 with the same times. I think a little tables maintenance is in order, please, if anyone from SL can look away from HD for a moment.

[eLhabib]

WHAT DID YOU JUST TELL THEM TO DO?! Hell, they shouldn't be looking away from HD for only 1 second, until it's out! >.<

j/k ;)

[packetmon]

Hass anyone realized how Assayyeah hass an obviouss cheat-time 23:18 with Feissar in Talon'ss Junction White venom?

I "raced" with this imposter this weekend.
About 20 seconds after start I eliminated him after only 2 rounds from a cannon.
I was laughing so hard at the implausibility of this and figured he is a cheater trying to be a funny guy like that. :rolleyes:

[Rapier Racer]

Uh this Assayyeah is a cheater stuff is just a joke packetmon you know that right?

[omega329]

Oh god, don't get me started on the flaws of text based communication. I'll start ranting about sarcasam tags and how smilies rose because of the difficulty of conveying body language and tone of voice. Next thing, I'll start implimenting audio files and youtube links into a thread as an experiment in other forms of media.

[eLhabib]

and when you do, Lance is gonna get you ;)

[Lance]

Oh god, don't get me started on the flaws of text based communication. I'll start ranting about sarcasam tags and how smilies rose because of the difficulty of conveying body language and tone of voice. Next thing, I'll start implimenting audio files and youtube links into a thread as an experiment in other forms of media.

You might practice your spelling and sentence structuring before posting again; rants and sarcasm are much more effective when people are not diverted from one's line of thought by noticing mistakes in one's text.

And now, back to the topic.

[Darkdrium777]

The real Asayyeah has only one "s" :)
Whowever this guy is, he's a **bleep**

[kanar]

I didn't noticed that "glitch" before supersox joked about, but after a couple of laughs I was sad. Because I've spent hours & hours & days only on 3 tracks (to maximize my lucks), trying to reach the rankings in just one category (fastest lap). I've "mastered" the phantom class (just on these 3 tracks). I've bought a copy to my brother. I've spent hours too with the GIMP, editing layers for my Piranha. I've left GTA4 because... In others words, I fell in love with this game, & this website. And it's ok if I'm still 2, 3 secs (only on my beloved 3 tracks, I can't imagine on the others) behind the best drivers, despite my efforts... I'll never cheat, as on the real life. I'm sad because this poor cheating attitude explains why the world is as it is, full of sadness & stupidity. So please it would be great to integrate a firmware or cheating check before the ranking syncro with psp users... We have too much respect for real drivers.

A couple of weeks ago, Flashback Jack said to me "Practice is all it takes. Lots of it." I can't say better. That's all.

[lunar]

Unfortunately a firmware check on Wipeout-Game.com would probably clear out half of the top ten times on some tracks. Practice helps, yes, but that`s not all it takes in every case: custom firmware, cunning cheating, doublethink and possibly even "alternative" versions of the game can also help. :-

I agree with you and do feel your annoyance, Kanar, and all "real drivers" should too. The tables are gradually becoming implausible because for fair players they are slowly being ruined by too many times we can`t trust, stupid cheat times and other stuff.

I`m coming to the conclusion that these sorts of tables are not about fair competition like the wipeoutzone tables. They`re just about getting your online alias in lights as much as you can by whatever means. That`s the what the Fusion tables became, and so will wipeout-game if any way to cheat isn`t actively stopped.

At least, afaik, the PS3 isn`t cracked yet so HD should be fair.

It`s not all awful though - there is still some good competition to be had if you can put up with the imperfections, I suppose.

[kanar]

Totally. I've discovered here incredible drivers & persons. And I will continue to "live" the pulse experience till' HD, I've 5 more tracks to learn... +the 8 more black versions lol!.

[Darkdrium777]

Unfortunately a firmware check on Wipeout-Game.com would probably clear out half of the top ten times on some tracks. Practice helps, yes, but that`s not all it takes in every case: custom firmware, cunning cheating, doublethink and possibly even "alternative" versions of the game can also help. :-I use custom firmware but I do not cheat. What you are doing (If I can use an analogy) is blaming the gun for existing, not the person who fired it. Even worse, you are blaming everyone who has not fired the gun (like myself) because it is available to them (Yet they are not using it). That's just stupid. The policy used right now is effective, what is needed is man power to clear out the incorrect times like the one of that "Assayyeah" guy.
Custom firmware doesn't necessarily mean cheating. In fact it even provides many advantages toward OFW, the first worth mentioning being the recovery menu which allows you to repair your firmware yourself without having to send the console to Sony if it ever gets corrupted. This alone is a good reason to get CFW IMHO.

[lunar]

I think you`re putting words into my mouth and should read my post again. I didn`t say everyone with custom firmware is cheating. I didn`t say everyone who has it is a cheat. I said that if you have it then it can be used to cheat, which is what you`re saying too.

I agree custom firmware doesn`t necessarily mean cheating, but it is a necessary condition of cheating. There are plenty of people (not everyone if it is set up fairly) who have used its benefits (mainly cpu speed) to get better times.

Neither did I say that there should be a custom firmware check - I just said what I think the effects could be. It`s probably impossible anyway.

[kanar]

Yes, exactly cf is really great, in so many ways. I should try the 333thing cpu clock. Should I? Where's the border line? I used Cf at the beginning of psp scene, but returned to official a long time ago. I fear just something, exactly like in the real life : undetectable cheating. I mean records barely "legit", but helped with a furtive boost or whatever... forget it, it seems too much conspiracy theory lol. And guns should be banned lol (exept in videogames)

[Asayyeah]

I am not pissed off against that imposter who get that ridiculous cheating racetime in venom, it's a bit pathetic and i don't care much.
i shall add I am nothing against a clear ban of his psp id and IP from the game ranking site :g

[micky1984]

iv either just come across a wierd bug or a cheater. there were 4 of us racing,i was in the lead when i was hit by what looked like an infinite amount of repulsers. it was like wave after wave until i was blown up along with two other racers. the only pilot left raceing was BionicGhost (at least i think that was his name) anyway it was annoying but it did look cool. has any1 had this happen 2 them ?

[Task]

Repulsor isn't even allowed in online racing. That weapon is limited to eliminator, which (for whatever reason) cannot be played multiplayer.

[lunar]

Sounds like the usual Pulse online crap. You never know whether you`re being bugged or hacked, the points don`t add up properly, you have to do 73 barrel rolls a lap at 8 frames per second, it`s just not worth the stress.

That`s a new one. Sounds like a cheat, but the old "infinite leech" trick turned out to be a bug...... probably.

[KIGO1987]

iv either just come across a wierd bug or a cheater. there were 4 of us racing,i was in the lead when i was hit by what looked like an infinite amount of repulsers. it was like wave after wave until i was blown up along with two other racers. the only pilot left raceing was BionicGhost (at least i think that was his name) anyway it was annoying but it did look cool. has any1 had this happen 2 them ?

I was in a tournament with you Micky and you pulled out in the third race. What happened? Anyway i did encounter some bugs in that tournament the scores at the end of the races went all ****ed. But i went into another another Lobby and had some killer close races with Packetmon on Rapier then Phantom. The times in some of the races where BS, probaly due to my slow next connection. My PSP went all weired and then frozed in the Phantom lobby that Packetmon had. There is something odd happening and it is becoming more frequent. I hope this dosent happen with Wipeout HD online.

[micky1984]

Yeah Kigo i remember the tournement this wasnt the race i was referencing above. but nevertheless i left because your score went down to 0 when it shud of been 16 (i think). normally i would of stayed in if that happened but seeing as it was in flash (and past my bed time) i couldnt be arsed :) but hey ill be on again today so hopefully ill see you out there for some non bug related racing :dizzy

[leungbok]

I read higher in this thread (asa post) that de-1337 was a cheater !??:eek
You sure ? I beat him several times and i'm not the best player in this ws.
If he cheats and lose nevertheless (even once), i have pity for him:(
But i was more suspicious with other guys, THOSE WHO BEAT ME:g
For example james-sp, he's incredibly fast and use very well his weapons, but i was often close to him in races and i must admit he pilots very well. I had a doubt when i received successively 2 bombs and 2 mine's launch, but i have often myself a lot of luck having when i'm first several boosts and autopilots that i combined with barrel rolls (sometimes i finish in precipices :dizzy).
So i mean there's a part of luck in pulse and i prefer trusting that james (and some other guys) is a good pilot and beat him is a motivating challenge.
Concerning the official ranking, an idea is to add the ghosts with the scores, it'll permit to analyse the piloting of a racer and see an eventual suspicious behavior of his ship. i have a record (so proud !!) in speed lap, rapier at arc prime white and i add the ghost.

[P52Smith]

Plausible ways to spot a cheater eh?

How about this:
4 people in a 6 race tournament;
Race 1: I finish first get 8 points, then -8 when third finishes giving me 0 points, guy in third gets 8
Race 2: I finish first get 0 points, same guy in third gets 8
(by now 1 person has quit)
Race 3: I finish in first, finally get 8 points while the guy gets 6 points in second.
(2nd person quits)
Race 4: I finish in first, get 8 points, guy finishes second, gets 6 points
Race 5: I am winning, guy quits.

Not very skilled at hiding his cheating, and I am very sure that it is not a glitch.

[eLhabib]

Actually that sounds more like a problem caused by bad connection to me...

[P52Smith]

Certaintly not at my end, I was right next to my router. The problem shouldn't have occurred in the same way twice though, nor like that if the problem was at his end. Good idea but the facts don't support it. Shame.

[rdmx]

As far as I know, I wouldn't think that a cheater could alter the scores you get on your screen. Pulse is notorious for this kind of random problem. I think that any sort of point hacking would only be client-side, (i.e. visible to the cheater only) and thus be fairly useless. The scores are probably interpreted by your PSP based on times. Don't quote me though.

[leungbok]

I too, think about a connect bug.
Last night i was first in each races of a tournament and at the last one i lose -8 points at the score frame. No matters, i had fun anyway8)

[James_sp]

hey leungbok, you have to know that i´m not a cheater, simply i bought Pulse when it was released in december and by this time i know the tracks and the racing lines very well, like a lot of people here.

As you´ve said, to be lucky is a fundamental part of this but also is necessary to have enough time dealing with the ships handling and the tracks physics.

I´ve to admit that i dedicated a lot of time with this game, however our online yesterday was very competitive between us, i had much fun with you and the others (ansagani, hazte_una_l, coatlquetzal), even you beated me in talons junction black if i remember, it was brilliant! :sonar ,the rest of races i remember you being close behind me, well done, you´re in the good way!

see you soon :)

[leungbok]

Hi James, see you soon online without cheats... and mercy:robot.
Yes it was hot last night, sorry for leaving at the last race of the tournament, problems with my connect:evil

[Mad-Ice]

Indeed I second James. James is not a cheater, just a very skilled pilot. I had very close races with him and he is one of the few that can give me a nice race on the DLC tracks. Hope to see you soon online again James and of course Leungbok.

[GalacticSpartan]

Then they should put NO cheats at all in every psp game...trust me, getting cheats and all is just pathetic to every game -_- the kids would get these cheats and would win anyway cause they`re getting cheats ><.

[Rapier Racer]

They didn't put any cheats in, the games been hacked, anyone on custom firmware can cheat their ass off if they want to. Yet another reason for my fierce opposition of CFW.

[leungbok]

Hi Mad-Ice, thanks for the welcome and the good races we did:g.
May be it is because of my bad english:redface:, but i was convinced James was a fair pilot, i used him to explain that a great piloting can easily be suspicious if you have not the required level. It was to relativise the doubts of some racers on guys online. And also my bad sense of humor:redface::redface::redface:

[Mad-Ice]

Lol, I can see your red face from here! :g Hope to see you soon online, maybe tomorrow night!?

[James_sp]

Don´t worry leungbok, i knew you were refering to me only as an example, the truth is that i thought the same cheaters thing when i was beginning with the online. Just i did feel like to confirm i don´t cheat as the one you mentioned. It doesn´t matter, really.

And Mad-Ice! i know you were racing online a few time ago, its a pity that i wasn´t there, its been a long time from the last time we raced togheter. I dont know if i will be at the online tomorrow night but im looking forward to run with you again.

[leungbok]

Tomorrow night, Mad-Ice ? Well..if i finish working not to late, why not ?:cowboy

[stin]

Is possible for me to play online tomorrow and I know james_sp is not a cheater cos I know he is a very good pilot as long he does not beat me! :P

stevie:g

[mdhay]

I might be adventurous and go on now.

Oh, ****, wrong thread!

Oh well, seems this thread has been very useful.

[leungbok]

I previously talked in this thread of one way to show that his record in the ranking table is honest, by loading his ship ghost. I loaded 2 ghosts in the first panel (time trial, talon junction white, best lap, venom). The first ghost is owned by Ncr_assassin who has a speed time phantom in a venom category (everybody knows why:g), but this cheater has put his ghost to load (???? he wanted to sign his crime ?) . I loaded also the Yannisss ghost (rank 4 with good and plausible time). I raced against the two ghosts. For the first one, the guy was going at light speed despite touching two walls in the first part of the track (after i don't know what happened,i can't follow him more than few seconds = indisputably his ship has a behavior suspect ). for the second one (Yannisss's), his ship has a normal behavior, he follow good trajectories, passes on every speed pads and i was able to follow him longer to appreciate his skills. This guy is good and don't cheat (except if a cheat enhance piloting skills :g:g:g).
I think ghost loading can be a way of showing honesty (and also, i know, his tricks of piloting:?). This case is clear (8 seconds on a guy like Kandang), but in the case a record looks less suspect (one or half a second's gap) the ghost can show the integrity.
Maybe a solution for those who are now distrustful and demotivated regarding the table ranking.
But it seems that cheaters can't be content with so little difference. Theses kids (i hope for them) need recognition and aren't very discreet :g.

[Yagya]

how come none of my times or anything get uploaded to the wipeout-game site. that's a good method leungbok.. if they choose to actually upload a ghost

[Ricanebleu]

Ok, so in the case of pulse and pure a ghost save can be a plausible signature for a valid record but how about WO3 or Fusion? Back in 2001 I knew somebody who has finished all golds for WO3 with the codes for infinite shield and items. I sow even the last race: 2 guys on the same joystick, one using the controls and the other searching for the right item to use, and accelerating constantly with the hyperthrust. I was imprested back then for their coordination but thinking back now, I wonder how much those golds are really worthed ? Anyone can make a perfect time record like this. So I guess my question is …”Is there any filter at all against such records in the charts and if found is the “cheat-record” removed?

[kanar]

Leungbok,


You're right, it's really better to hunt a ghost than just a time. So I've decided to post -humble contribution- my entire white phantom speed lap collection lol. Team Avalon forever!

[leungbok]

You're right Kanar. Thank's for the ghosts to beat records:g
But i'll load mine's just to be fair.:beer