10 Things I hate about WipEout Pulse

[Sausehuhn]

Obviously inspired by this thread (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1021).
Don't get me wrong, I like Pulse, bot nonetheless there are a few things that really get on my nerves. Let's share our thoughts about that.


01.
Just Single Race and Tournament in Multiplayer mode. I really miss eliminator here. At least modes like Head-to-Head would have been possible because there are no weapons that may not target because of lag.

02.
Hard AI is good - but why has it to be more aggressive than Fusion's? The race feels like a battlefield. Very often no fun and very frustrating. I know there's also Medium and Easy, but I want an AI that is hard to beat because of the racing, not because I'm fired by everyone.

03.
Some tracks really are no fun. Yes, they are simply no fun. They are not like "oh I hate that track because of that and that but I like in some way". I mean that they are really no fun. And yes I'm talking about Outpost 7 here, too. Everyone who knows how much I loved Citta Nuova should think I love Outpost 7 as well. But I don't. The whole track seems like a mess to me. Maybe I'll change my opinion about that in future, but all the races I had so far were simply no fun at all.

04.
The freezing. You take a screenshot in photomode and suddenly the game freezes. Same for online play. I had that so often now that I really think twice about using the photomode or pressing buttons too fast.

05.
You can't see which races a tournament contains. You just see the number of tracks and that's it.

06.
Just 5 skins savable. Seems to be the same for custom grids. Why?

07.
The leech beam. God I hate it. Well, at least the way it's been done. I like the energy drain thing, but the effect it has to you ship is just awful. When there's somebody who already gets my energy, why the hell has my ship to go uncontrollable left and right as well?

08.
The menu design. I don't hate it, but Pure's menus just seemed so... pure. I miss the minimalism in the menus and sometimes it seems like there were some bitmaps thrown together rather than being concerted.

09.
Sometimes the Magstrip feature seems to be overloaded. I can't agree with most people who say that the feature is used wisely in all cases. I don't mean the number of the Magstrip sections, I mean the parts of the track where they are used. There were plenty of sections where barrel rolling is impossible because of the Magstrip feature. I don't say I don't want it in general, but at least at some sections I think "why?".

10.
It is still not possible to barrel roll if there are too many contenders on the screen. Lame.


Surely, if there's going to be one thread that lists all the positives sides of Pulse I will have no problem to list more than just ten.
But as much as I enjoy Pulse and it's refining (woho - no roof grinding anymore!) I'm not quite sure yet if I like the game more than Pure. The game is fun, sure. But there are these things (I did not list all here) that make me unsure if I should like the game more than Pure or not.
I guess it will take a few months till I can finally say which game I like more. But that's my point of view for now.

[ZenDJiNN]

Great post.

I agree with a couple of points, especially the one concerning AI (Hard mode). If it was out & out racing then that would be pretty OK, but when they just blow the crap out of you, especially when you've had an otherwise really great race, it just seems a tad annoying! :)

I haven't got anywhere near as far as outpost 7 yet, but one thing that i have found is this..... when i first started a track and thought that i didn't like it, i later found out that this was mainly due to my lack of experience with said track. There are still a few tracks so far that i'm not that keen on, but the more i play the easier they get, so it's OK.

As for "Photo Mode", i really love it, and have had NO problems whatsoever with it. It's never locked on me or frozen etc, and i have taken hundreds of photos. :g

The one thing that i perhaps would like to see is the ability (in Photo Mode) to select a Bigger (Better?) resolution of the saved picture. (And perhaps a Video Mode would be nice also) Apart from that i find it's a really good thing.

I agree it's a shame about the 5 Skins thing, especially with the Skin Editor available. I can't see the point of doing all those really great skins when you've nowhere to put (Save/Store) them. ??

Leech beam - A pain maybe, but it's not that bad. As for the menu design, i haven't really found anything about it that i don't like. I love the way the menus come to the front or sink into the background. :)

The "Magstrip" is weird, because although i don't mind it too much, it can be a real bother when you hit the walls & effectively come to a halt..... that part of it i really don't like, but the idea is good.

As for the barrel roll, i was wondering what that was. Many times i've been racing & went to do a roll, only to find that nothing was happening..... quite frustrating, but nothing that i can't live with.

All in all, i really like Pulse, but i'll also still keep playing Pure, because they are (in many ways) quite different and each has it's own good/bad points!

[phl0w]

Great post indeed. All aspects covered that I too think where not thought out properly. Especially not being able to view the tracklist of tournaments, the overboarding use of mag strip sections even where this simulated gravity isn't needed in the first place. It seems to me, it should prevent newbies from bottoming out %)
Freezing, hell yes! I have yet to quit Pulse properly! It froze EVERY time, whether I was pressing buttons too fast while watching stats or in Photo Mode (which, I'm sorry, is useless anyway).
I couldn't agree more on the tracks. I already said that I think they have a very generic feel to them, as in that they share too many bends and combination of bends and of course scenery and textures with each other. When I watch pictures here on WOZ from Pulse, most of the time I can't even recognize the track! Only very, very few offer a unique character of any sort (Platinum, Arc Prime and Outpost 7 come to mind, which are so distinctively different, that you actually "feel" you're racing a different track). I hope the downloadable tracks are more like Wipeout tracks and less randomly generated. If you can't come up with new exciting tracks I'm fine with the ones from WO1-WO3 in a new pretty package too, you know! :nod
I have yet to use another ship than the Piranha, so I can't comment on the A.I. The Piranha is pretty much the best ship with loads of speed and an unbreakable hull. In Eliminator I usually get killed like 3 times and with its speed Single Races are like Time Trials because once in the lead no ship can keep up with it. Head-to-Head A.I. is a joke, I can bounce like a rubber ball around the track and still finish first. I don't hope there's some sort of catch-up logic involved...

All criticism aside, I like the floaty feel (which, unfortunately is nullified more often than not through unnecessary mag stips) and playing online is great!

[lunar]

Here`s my answers to your debating points, Max. :)

1. Didn`t realise there was no multiplayer eliminator. Would have been a nice novelty for me, but won`t particularly miss it.
2. I thought the AI has made great strides, certainly racing faster and more realistically than Pure. It may or may not be too rough, but the way they race as a pack feels real enough.
3. Haven`t raced enough tracks to comment yet, but I like them all up to Amphiseum.
4. I`ve had some freezes logging off the in-game browser, but that`s the only time.
5. Online it shows you the tournament races once you`re in. Would be nice to have had some preset tours, like Alpha, Beta etc, but not a biggie.
6. You can keep the bitmaps of the skins offline through the copy and paste function.
7. I think the Leech Beam rocks. It doesn`t steal too much energy, and getting a lock on the leader, then sucking out his life force with your purple tentacle is too much fun. Getting leeched isn`t fun, but picking up a turbo, shield or mines and getting rid of a leecher is great.
8. I like the menu, better than I could do myself.
9. At first I wasn`t sure about Mag Strips, but I really think they`re cleverly implemented. They give some wow moments, and the cutting down on Barrel Rolls with them is a good thing. Overall the way the impact of Barrel Rolls has been cut down is brilliant, I think. I love the half track mag-strip on De Konstruct, a nice idea. There are individual places where I might have preferred to fly free, but that`s just small points of track preference.
10. There must be some reason why this happens in AI races, maybe it was too hard to fix. I can live with it.

Overall I`m just loving the game, and taking it very slowly. The only thing I would have seriously done differently is to make the handling less sensitive on the nub, but that`s probably just me and I`ll get used to it, or develop some new skills somehow. I think maybe I liked Pure`s handling more, it was totally wild. But it`s too early to say, in fairness, and I haven`t raced fast classes yet. Pure was a dead duck until you reached Rapier - then it started to go nuts.

[Colin Berry]

A few answers

We simply did not have time to add more events to multiplayer, multiplayer testing is far more complex and takes far longer than the single player game. Hence only single race and tournament.

Hard AI, the harder the AI the more likely they are to use a weapon as opposed to absorb it - that does not mean use it against the player, it means use it in general, the difference between medium and hard is around about 6% less likely to absorb, 2% more likely to hold, 4% more likely to fire

Tracks... its odd how people see things different. The designers of the tracks (Karl and I) both see Outpost 7 at the one we are the most disappointed with, yet some people really like it. Personally I think Tech De Ra is the best Wipeout track of any iteration, including the numerous tracks created and scrapped over the years. Its up there with ghost valley 1 ini snes mario kart as a track that is a joy to race over and over, for me anyway.
To call them randomly generated.... well thats just not true and its a bit dismissive to the time effort and dedication that went into them over the past 18months. Criticism is fine, it how we improve areas and indeed I would say the areas I'd change would be to add a few more jumps in general and also I would undo the decison to have a black / white for every track, some work very well, a couple dont. I do know though that a lot of time effort and care went into the track and environment generation, its an area I particularly value highly. I think it is a strong line up of tracks though there could probably have been an extra harder track in there, it should have been outpost 7 but its a little frustrating, but I have 100% faith in the track building process and the ability to come up with tracks of our designers, indeed I know we have the best people for the job. Looking back throughout each Wipeout, all of them have had tracks that some people disliked and some loved, its the nature of the beast, being unable to please all.

None of the tracks share bends, they are all designed individually and whilst some bends may end up similar, none share the same data at all. they are all constructed afresh (aside of course white / black versions of same environment)

For the record the download tracks are one very technical track, two middling tracks and one easier track

Photomode freezing, hrm, I'm unsure what to say about that as it works fine for many people. It certainly isnt a useless feature though, granted some people wont like it or use it but some will. To call something useless because someone doesnt like it, is a little excessive and is opinion. Personally I think its a cool way of showing off custom ships.

Which brings onto 5 skins allowed...
All the skins are held on the server so a line had to be drawn somewhere.
Would I prefer it to be more, of course I would as would the team, but it is a decision based on server side issues.
If only 10 people created skins ever then 100000 skins each would be fine. But we have to assume X amount will use it and set limits accordingly. Well, I say we, I am genuinely unsure who handles that decision on actually file size dedicated.

The leech beam slows a ship whilst connected and slightly disrupts its handling, it is a powerful weapon, but then it has a % chance not much higher than a quake. like many weapons its fun to use annoying as hell to be hit by.


Menu design comes down to personal taste I guess.

MagStrip use, I think there are two sections maybe I'd revise, but on the whole I think they work well, it was quite a step to put them in given the misgivinigs aimed towards the locked feeling of fusion, so we deliberately only used them in half the tracks. Yes it reduces some barrel roll opportunity, but then for some thats a good thing.

Barrel roll not working properly surrounded with other ships.... we improved it a little but not enough :( the barrel roll inputs are frame based and more ships together means the frame rate can dip (even if you do not notice it it can slip a frame or two for a split second) with the pack racing AI its more likely.


I dont want this to seem like an ultra defensive reply, no game is perfect. We've tried to make strides with Pulse in some areas where Wipeout has never been - online play and web side integration for example, and we've also looked to refine elements such as controls, acceleration, damage and loss of control caused by each weapon etc. For the most part, I think we got it right. I think the game is far more playable than Pure for me its the least frustrating Wipeout off the bat and certainly the most instantly fun. Is it perfect, no (no game is) and criticism is taken on board when its considered and not simply opinion vs opinion, but we value criticism as much as we value praise, but then we can never listen to everyone because A and B might be directly opposed in opinion, as such we can only aim to please the largest number of people not all.

Praise helps us see what people like and how we can keep making them happy, criticism helps us mprove things and see where we are going wrong. so its all good, as long as its constructive. Although I retain the right to listen to no one but my inner demon (aka foxxy)

:)

[eLhabib]

As much as I see the MASSIVE improvement over Pure when it comes to playability and 'instant fun' how you call it, I still have to agree with the criticism on 2 points.

- The menu design is nowhere as slick as Pure's (HUD design is the BOMB, however)

- And yes, I too feel that some of the tracks are boring, not challenging, and lack personality. Tech de Ra? C'mon! It feels like you are going straight the whole time, except for the last chicane!

On the other hand, Talon's Junction and Arc Prime are probably amongst my favorite tracks of all time, but not quite as perfect as I consider Ubermall, Blue Ridge and Chenghou Project. Y'know, I feel like Pure's tracks had so much more personality and uniqueness to them! Staten Park, for example, was absolutely gorgeously moody the first time I saw it, even though it was fairly simple as a track.

Oh and before I forget: the new Zone mode implementation is PERFECT. DON'T.EVER.CHANGE IT. :clap

[Roz]

Curious how people can see the same thing, differently.

I for one, prefer these tracks over Pure's. For me, they are much more unique and distinct.


Tech de Ra? C'mon! It feels like you are going straight the whole time, except for the last chicane!

You musn't be playing it on Phantom them. Try not to steer and see what happens ;) It's far from a straight track, it's just crazy fast, and I dig it.

As for the menu, I prefer it over Pure's. For starters, the game doesn't make you hit start or X 500 EFFIN' times over and over again. Seriously, to boot Pure is a pain in the arse, going through all those menus and sub menus and start screens every single time I wanted to play it. As for Pulse's menu, I think it's great. Clean, simple, organized. The way it should be. I wont say a more stylish design would've hurt it, but cmon, as far as organization goes, it's dead on. And I suppose that is the most important feature in a menu.

About the only thing I'm really disliking is the bugs/freezes. Pulse gives me that feeling of unstable that I don't like in games. Anyway, I can live with this I guess. Online makes up for it ;)

Oh, AND WHERE'S FREE RACE?!

[lunar]

I agree Martin, Arc Prime is great. Reminds me of Burgertown in its movement, so I like it. And that damned dip in the wall still tricks me in both directions. It`s so tempting to go the wrong way. Maybe it`s just me, but that seems like clever track design. :naughty

[Roz]

And that damned dip in the wall still tricks me in both directions. It`s so tempting to go the wrong way. Maybe it`s just me, but that seems like clever track design. :naughty

Oh... I can't even start counting the times I rammed straight clean into that wall... *sigh*

(that's a good thing)

[jacen]

well at least you only have this problem on white ... i can even count how often i turned left on this spot on arc prime black .... ugh :(

[Colin Berry]

- And yes, I too feel that some of the tracks are boring, not challenging, and lack personality. Tech de Ra? C'mon! It feels like you are going straight the whole time, except for the last chicane!

On the other hand, Talon's Junction and Arc Prime are probably amongst my favorite tracks of all time, but not quite as perfect as I consider Ubermall, Blue Ridge and Chenghou Project. Y'know, I feel like Pure's tracks had so much more personality and uniqueness to them! Staten Park, for example, was absolutely gorgeously moody the first time I saw it, even though it was fairly simple as a track.



I love the speed of Tech De Ra I love the way both the directions play and the opportunity for air hang time and clever use of turbo for over taking people mid air, and I like the open walled section because although not tricky per se, in pressure multiplayer high speed games it can be harder than before because psychologically it gets to you and that is something I think is pretty cool when a section that you can do fine in time trial can suddenly become trickier due to pressure and I just think it flows really really well, and to me it stands out visually and looks really cool too.

I love vertica white because its blisteringly quick, and basilico white because when you nail it at phantom its a rush.

I actually prefer to have more of the challenge come from the opponent than the track, admittedly the HARD AI may still be easy for some veterans but thats where I hope online can play a role. Of course the tracks shouldnt all be simple, but I like them to flow and not frustrate. But I accept there are people who want the tracks to really challenge them too, I dont think Vertica black or outpost 7 are easy.

Oddly I think Ubermall whilst a nice track is actually fairly simplistic, easier than something like fort gale for example, but then fort gale has sections that let you breath as well as sections that hurt.

I think maybe if all the Pure tracks had been playable bothdirections then some of the individual charm would have been lsot of some of them. I think whilst the black and white runs work well in the most part, its something that shouldnt be a rule. But then some of the ones I am not as happy with, other people like.

sigh its late

[The Gracer]

Thanks, Colin - its good to hear some feedback from you when we bash your game ;)

Seriously, i dont have anything bad to say. i love pulse (apart from when my fat PSP dies 15 mins after a charge because the processor is positively SCREAMING for power) and i think, from my point of view, you nailed it. Perhaps if i was a better pilot i might have a few things to gripe about, but average old me is perfectly happy with what i have. :)

Also, ZONE IS AWESOME!!!!11one1!11eleven!1

[jacen]

Uhm Colin?
I don't want to bitch, but why have you removed Vector?

I played pure to perfect (324 gold medals) and had my last pure session somewhen in the summer. But when starting pulse, it fellt fast. Really fast. I can see non-enthusiasts beeing overstrained with this speed. But then again, grid 1-4 feel like they have no increase in speed at all.

Well ... we will see how my little cousin reacts to the speed at christmas.

[Frances_Penfold]

Wow, tough crowd tonight :)

For what it's worth, I think that Wipeout Pulse is tops, and I seem to enjoy it more as I spend more time with. I like the track designs, I like the grid design, I like the online features (thank you in particular for the leaderboard system), and I like the balanced teams.

I have a lot of attachment to Wipeout Pure and don't really think of one PSP wipeout game as being "better" than the other-- just different. But Wipeout Pulse brings a lot of new features to the table and that's much appreciated.


About the only thing I'm really disliking is the bugs/freezes.

Oh, AND WHERE'S FREE RACE?!

These are my only two complaints as well-- I experience game freezes regularly, especially when racing one track multiple times (either by restarting or by completing the race, and selecting the try again option).

And as somebody that loves hot lapping, I really do miss free play. It's a very convenient way to play wipeout, especially when one only has a few minutes in a session. Ah well, that much more reason to boot up Wipeout Pulse on a regular basis :)

[G'Kyl]

Just a thought: Could certain firmware versions or even hacked firmwares be the reason for freezes? I haven't experienced them as far as I can remember. I also don't feel like slowdowns are nearly as intrusive as they have been in Pure. There may be some, but they never get in the way or get me out of the flow as was the case with Pure.

Design-wise I think Pulse tracks _are_ more distinct in terms of their layout. Visually though, as fantastic as they are, they still remind me of Pure, so maybe that's why they feel somewhat less inspired to some? And I have to agree with Colin on Metropia White. It's an awesome rush in the higher classes! Plus, I love its "Neo-Tokyo" design.

I too find the menu far less impressive than Pure's, but so what... ;)

And what's most important about any racing game: Pulse absolutely nails the physics! I disagree with people seeing Pulse as being less floaty than Pure, because at its core it isn't. BUT: Ships now feel like they actually carry some weight, and most tracks leave you only few chances to BR, if any at all. So, with Pure there where complaints about too many BRs and now there's too few of them... Beats me. ;) Personally, I like the few huge and medium jumps in the game and the fact that there's not too many of them. (Some tracks, like Metropia White, are still BR mania in certain classes.) Plus, you get lots of I think extremely cool moments where you hit a bump or fall of a short ramp and "crash" land back on the track. To me this kind of "floatyness AND heavyness" adds a lot to the experience!

Having said that, I also don't agree on that more direct control over the craft makes the game easy as such. It makes it more accessible, but I for one don't think Rapier and Phantom on hard are easy. :)

Ben

[stin]

I don't want to bitch, but why have you removed Vector?

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=60521&postcount=8

It`s not the right answer but it`s near enough.

I`ll be honest, I`ve thought Pulse is excellent game and I have no complains so far. I`m really surprised, El did complain of too straight, too long and boring, but my point is, imagine play against the online multiplay?! :brickwall

stevie:)

[Dogg Thang]

Wow, I'm a little surprised on the tracks because I adore them. I was nervous about both the black/white thing and the mag strips but Pulse has really impressed me with regards to the tracks. Even Outpost 7 which I hate due to the aggressive AI (my biggest beef with Pure and still here in Pulse) I really enjoy in head to head or time trial. Moa Therma is stunning in both look and layout. Actually there are loads of track highlights for me.

And I love how the mag strips have been handled and that's something that could have gone horribly wrong. I still wake up in cold sweats having had nightmares about Fusion.

But, yes, I totally agree with Sausehuhn on the AI. There's always been a racing vs battle thing in WO but, for me, losing a race makes me feel I have to do better. Getting eliminated annoys me. It rarely, if ever, feels like I really could have done anything about it, especially when the attacks come in quick combos.

But when Pulse is racing, it's great. As in Pure, for some reason some tracks keep the AI nice and mellow (Moa Therma) and some turn them into wild animals (Outpost 7 and Platinum Rush).

I love the leech beam too so can't agree with that. The thing about the beam is that it is consistant, so you know what you have to react to, unlike the disruptor in Pure. I think that's fair.

Other than that, yeah, I've had a few bugs and a few crashes too but, overall, I'd have a hard time finding 10 things I hate about Pulse.

[jacen]

Just a thought: Could certain firmware versions or even hacked firmwares be the reason for freezes? I haven't experienced them as far as I can remember.
im on cwf and had yet to have a single freeze.
i doubt it's that, since most of the guys here are on official fw anyway

I also don't feel like slowdowns are nearly as intrusive as they have been in Pure. There may be some, but they never get in the way or get me out of the flow as was the case with Pure.
if you haven't noticed, pulse is running with the full 333Mhz. thats 50% more than in pure ... that serves for more eyecandy AND improved framerate.

[ZenDJiNN]

Pulse is a Fantastic piece of work, no doubt! But the AI thing is harsh at times. Like most people i love to get as good a start as any in races, but i noticed both in Pure & in Pulse, the AI seem to get far worse & attack a lot more, when you get a good start!

If i leave the button and have a "Slow" start (Riding last) then the AI doesn't get anywhere near as aggressive. My answer to most of these problems is NOT to play in "Hard AI" mode..... :)

Personally, as much as there's stuff that i'm not keen on (& only a few things at that) i LOVE Pulse and will continue to race & "Spread the Word" about the BEST PSP Game out there!

[DjManiac21]

I think maybe if all the Pure tracks had been playable bothdirections then some of the individual charm would have been lsot of some of them. I think whilst the black and white runs work well in the most part, its something that shouldnt be a rule. But then some of the ones I am not as happy with, other people like.

sigh its late

I just love the way the game opens up by having 2-ways tracks, and for what I've seen in this thread you guys got it right! Everyone likes a different track, so you pretty much covered every player, increasing chances of getting new people to the series.

I have to give a special congrat for the physics, the fell amazing :+

It's just awesome that each Wipeout titles up until today has it's own personality, they play different, they offer different things, they take place in different places and eras and they all offer you reasons to come back to them. If all of them were the same, or improved up to a certain point and then maintained they would be just a bunch of expansions, with extra tracks. I just enjoy so much the way each WO, specially Pulse, brings new thing every time, I mean, ONLINE! :P

Great job, I have really no complaints, love the game in its entirety and will be playing for years to come.

[infoxicated]

I'll have a go, but there's nothing I really hate outside of the first three on my list. The others are more things that bug me.

The voices. Too disrupted and oh so clichéd - why does everybody have artificial vocal chords in the future? At least they're not pitch shifted, I suppose.
The track intros that I have to skip every single frickin' ****ing time. I can do ten or more attempts at a time trial in a single session. That's ten or more skips of the track intros. I just re-started the event - I know where I am and I don't know why your voice is distorted, but it was annoying enough that I skipped you the very first time. So this Bud's for you, Mr emotionless faux-futuristic track intro announcer - in a game created in 2007 you dared to sound like the love child of Tina Turner and a Cylon from 1970's Battlestar Galactica. (For the love of zod can we have an option to turn these off entirely in WipEout HD like I begged for when we were making Pulse?)
Barrel rolls. I still find these hit and miss - any track where there's more than one per lap I just find them gimmicky and frustrating. I'd agree they "extend the gameplay" due to the fact that missing one can waste an otherwise perfect TT session so you have to start again (and bask in the warm distorted voice of the track intro). Admittedly I hate them less than I hated them in Pure, but I still hate them. I wish Colin had been weak enough to take the £1000 bribe I offered him to take them out of Pulse.
Weapons. There's too many of them - not in terms of amount, but in the volume of weapons fire during a race. I like that the AI ships seem to make more use of them, but I think the racing would be better if there were half the weapons pads on each track.
There are a number of issues with the website, such as the lack of navigation of the rankings on the PSP and pages that look a mess on both PSP & PS3. :paperbag (hey, if I'm going to critique other people's work I can at least do my own!)
Respawns are still a bit random. Last night I came off the track during a time trial and respawned further up the track than I had been. Cant remember which track, though. I prefered the "emergency autopilot engaged" idea, where the ship brings itself back to the track in a similar way to WipEout 3 but without the wuss wagon.
Going up to go down in track select catches me out every time and it does my head in. Especially when you go up to go up in number on the grid selection screen.
The order of the teams makes no sense to me. I understand that Colin didn't want to have FEISAR first because it would make it seem like the 'tard ship, but alphabetical order wouldn't have hurt any of the teams and would have been more intuitive.
Erm... the Team Allegiance thing made me feel guilty about defecting from AG-Systems to Qirex, then from Qirex to EG-X. I know I pushed for this to be in the game and the website... but I guilt trip easily. Possibly not a fault of the game.
erm... running out of steam here. Ah! Lack of a downloadable version - my Pure UMD fell to bits on me and I'd rather have an e-distribution version of the game on my memory stick than a UMD version that might break. Again, possibly not a fault of the game.
That's all I have.... but then again, I haven't opened Outpost 7 yet. ;)

Oh - I have to add that I haven't had a single freeze yet. I'm on FW 2.8 and I've made quite heavy use of the online component with regard to the web integration. Haven't tried photo mode or multiplayer yet, though.

[G'Kyl]

if you haven't noticed, pulse is running with the full 333Mhz. thats 50% more than in pure ... that serves for more eyecandy AND improved framerate.

Yes, so... what are you saying? ;)

[jacen]

less slowdown due to higher clockrate.
if you play pure with 333Mhz, it's even more smooth than pulse.

[infoxicated]

if you haven't noticed, pulse is running with the full 333Mhz. thats 50% more than in pure ... that serves for more eyecandy AND improved framerate.
Pulse isn't running at 333Mhz, because developers cant run at 333Mhz and use the wi-fi component at the same time.

There would be no point in creating a game engine that needs to run at 333Mhz for single player smoothness if it ended up a slideshow at 222Mhz when you're playing online, when frame rate is cruicial.

333Mhz was experimented with as a single player option, but it was too late in the development schedule to implement it without the risk of introducing problems, so it was dropped.

Anyhow - back on topic.

[Fascia]

Custom Firmware uses beware. Set your clockspeeds to default.

[infoxicated]

Custom firmware users can beat it - I don't want any talk of it on this site at all. Like I said, back on topic.

[Colin Berry]

Barrel Rolls.. I wish Colin had been weak enough to take the £1000 bribe I offered him to take them out of Pulse.


This is true
in fact I think he upped the offer to 1500 and a pint at one point

[Miguel.tenshi]

1 - I just read that this limit pertains to server limitations, which, at least to me, seems like a very good reason to give us an offline editor and allow players to have as many skins as they please saved on the memory stick.

How about it?

That is my only complaint for this game.

2 - By the way, any chance of a patch that allows the game to recognize the PURE downloads and make them available for PULSE ??

That would e cool...

[Egg]

No. Pulse tracks are designed for Pulse physics - plus other things, tags and triggers which are set-up specifically within the tracks, would not work from Pure to Pulse.

My one regret regarding the ships is that I would have loved to have added a more 'layered' visual structure to them. Wings over plates over fins, layered over a visible chassis covered with nice complicated pipework, weapon pods and blinking lights.

As it turned out, it didn't work visually on the PSP screen (too small, fiddly and 'smeary'), and would have presented too many problems for customisation. The only things that remain from my experiments are the blinking nav-lights and the visible pilot.

I would've liked to see a grid full of engineers and floating robot thingies before a race, too. Sadly, we just didn't have time (or memory) for those sort of niceties.

[Miguel.tenshi]

No. Pulse tracks are designed for Pulse physics - plus other things, tags and triggers which are set-up specifically within the tracks, would not work from Pure to Pulse.


OK, thanks for clearing that, I knew it was probably just wishful thinking on my part.

What about an offline editor?

Or even a patch that allows players to save as many custom ships on the memory card as they like?

I mean, you could keep the current editor, with only 5 save slots on the website, but you could let us save unlimited skins on the memory stick.

Is this possible, in a future update?

Pretty please??

[Sausehuhn]

Yeah, that was the thing I meant: 5 skins for the website, unlimited for your memstick.


So... it's great to see that some nice discussion has started :) And I like the fact that you, Colin and Jon, joined the topic.
And just to make things clear: I didn't say the game is bad, ok? Actually it's a WipEout game I really, really enjoy (so did I with Pure). And as already said there are probably a lot more good things about the game and it's refining than things that - at least for me - turned out to be not as good as I expected them.

You guys did a great job and I did not want to offend anybody if it felt that way :)

Maybe I'll just leave the Outpost 7 races aside, the grid allows me to do so ;)

[Task]

Comments like "oh, I don't like this particular track" I can generally discount, since it's usually just player preference exerting itself, but these are the kinds of comments I've been waiting to see:

Weapons. There's too many of them - not in terms of amount, but in the volume of weapons fire during a race. I like that the AI ships seem to make more use of them, but I think the racing would be better if there were half the weapons pads on each track.
It sounds to me like most people complaining about the weapons are really complaining about heavy weapons fire during the first half lap when they're manuevering from the back of the pack to the front. That part of the race should possibly be more about pilot skill than weapon skill. If we can't have a system that allows us to start at the head of the pack if we're the best pilot on the track (and really, I'd call that the optimal solution!) then perhaps taking a page out of the XG3 book and turning off all weapon pads till we're partway through the first lap would be the ultimate fix here. That way we could have the full-on weapons for the later laps where we might need them to gain position and the gold, but at the same time not get eliminated in the first lap when we're just getting up to speed.


Respawns are still a bit random. Last night I came off the track during a time trial and respawned further up the track than I had been. Cant remember which track, though. I prefered the "emergency autopilot engaged" idea, where the ship brings itself back to the track in a similar way to WipEout 3 but without the wuss wagon.
Not liking the sound of that, I was really hoping for any kind of "slowly return you to the track where you left it", but I've heard that the "teleport line" has been pulled way back so that's definitely good news.

Erm... the Team Allegiance thing made me feel guilty about defecting from AG-Systems to Qirex, then from Qirex to EG-X. I know I pushed for this to be in the game and the website... but I guilt trip easily. Possibly not a fault of the game.I would call that massive success for the game! Serious emotional involvement from the player is one of the hallmarks of a truly superb game. That and all the difficulty some people are having finding 10 problems with the game means I keep looking more and more forward to the NA release!

[Frances_Penfold]

Heh-- maybe the reason that AI doesn't bother me is that I think that time trials are the "true" racing experience in Wipeout :p If there are other ships on the tracks, I kinda expect to get hammered. But can't you turn weapons off if you so desire?


Pulse isn't running at 333Mhz, because developers cant run at 333Mhz and use the wi-fi component at the same time.


Oh. I thought it was "confirmed" that Pulse runs at 333Mhz-- so it's not using any more processor power than Pure? It runs so much smoother!

[Cannon_Fodder]

This is true
in fact I think he upped the offer to 1500 and a pint at one point

You turned it down? Crikey.




Must have been Fosters...

I would have a list of things that are great and not so great about Pulse, but no one's sent me one...

[infoxicated]

You can get them in the shops, dude! Just drag your unfeasibly large wallet along to one of them there game stores and get yourself a copy! :D

[Dogg Thang]

Didn't Egg say it ran at 333? Whatever it's at makes for a smooth framerate anyway.

I can't believe you don't like the voices. But then, I love the Cylons so I'm biased. On the respawns, there's a point on the Tech No Ra bridge that will allow you to get a bit further by dropping off.

[Lance]

I've always thought that increasing AI difficulty should be about increasing the racing skills of the AI piloting to bring their racing speeds closer to those of the live players, not about making them shoot more.

[Egg]

Didn't Egg say it ran at 333?
You know what? The 333 thing was kicked around the studio for so long, and the framerate improved so much from Pure, that I assumed the two were related (having played the game every day for 12 months, and not having heard anything to the contrary). So I blurted. My bad. Just don't tell anyone, ok ? :D

[Dogg Thang]

Won't say a word. It's a believable story though - the track detail seems improved and yet the framerate seems to have jumped dramatically. Just looking at it, I would have sworn it had to be 333. But then I don't know what I'm talking about most of the time.

[G'Kyl]

I've always thought that increasing AI difficulty should be about increasing the racing skills of the AI piloting to bring their racing speeds closer to those of the live players, not about making them shoot more.

Its both, actually. On most tracks they are a more competitive bunch of racers than their predecessors were, although they do use weapons a lot. Even so, you HAVE to master the track in order to win a race - but you CAN do without weapons. So, at the end of the day, I believe the formula, if tweaked a bit since Pure, remains pretty much intact.

Ben

[Lance]

I'd prefer that it not remain intact for single-player. While I've sometimes raced without using weapons myself, it always ticked me off when a backmarker AI ship I'm passing hit me on the last lap with a weapon that screwed up a new single-race record time to put in at the top of the records tables. I'd rather be able to set difficulty levels by making the AI simply race better. That would also make me improve my own skills. The difficulty of racing online against live humans depends on the humans, and it would be easy to find someone as good as or better than me, which at this point, I can't [race online, that is]; hence my interest in making single-player AI better.

[G'Kyl]

Same here, I'd love racing games to be about racing and nothing else. But then weapons are an integral part of WipEout and for the most part an extremely cool and well done one. Hence, I don't bother if a game is built for battle racing or whatever one might call it. But yes, I'd like to turn them of as well - only when you do it becomes so much more apparent how bad, or let's say: unskilled, any WipEout AI is at real racing. ;)

[Lance]

Someone suggested that ships that fall way behind should be eliminated instead of hanging around to be lapped and to hit you with rockets or mines in pure vicious unsporting revenge. It takes away a bit of the reality of racing to eliminate the probability of lapping slower competitors, but still... maybe....

[Colin Berry]

To be honest it going to be unlikely to lap ships in Pulse, except on easy mode maybe.

The difficulty changes by increasing AI performance both in terms of racing and weapon use, however the racing increase is far more marked than the firing. What we do find is that some tracks have a few more weapon pads that the AI path over so those tracks seem very weapon heavy, where as some tracks are less so. Also with the pack racing the AI has more opportunity to fire as proximity etc is part of the use conditions

there is no aggression stat per se, simply use absorb keep, these change over difficulty settings although I cant recall if they also change per speed class its been ages sincei looked at them


As for 333
It was taken out late on due to time issues
For it to be in, the game would not be out for a while longer, and that was not an option

[Lance]

Thanks for your reply and participation here, Colin.

I haven't said this any time recently, so... > It really is great to have the game designers as members of the forum.

--------------

A request: Please consider making the next Wipeout less weapons-heavy in single-player single-race mode, by whatever method would be required. In every other mode [apart from time trial, of course ;D ], heavy weapons activity would be great.

[RingoSpoon]

I think its great Pulse is 'Weapons Heavy' as it gives you a taste for what to expect online :)

[rdmx]

True, but online when you are in the middle of a pack, it's horribly hard to get out of there because of all the weapons fire. You end up falling back too far, consequently no one can target the leader, and the leader speeds off undisturbed by weapons fire:brickwall

[G'Kyl]

Now there is something to be considered for future online modes! I agree, it is far too easy for a good player to get way ahead of the pack while the rest has to battle it out and therefore hardly stands a chance of winning. As annoying as it would be for single player races, online races need a weapon similar to Rollcage's worm hole: You fire, it aims for the leader no matter where he is, and pullls him right beside you. Beside you so you can't fire at him the instant he gets pulled back, that would be unfair. Or would it? Dunno... ;)

I'd also like to see a catch-up option - again: only for online races. Outrun 2006 might not have been the most realistic racing game ;), but hell was it fun online when you where ALWAYS racing it out right up to the finish line!!! Such a speed increase would serve the game best if it kicked in as long as you fell behind a certain distance and got stronger if you fell behind even more. But it shouldn't be there as soon as you have the one racing before you in sight - otherwise those last miles before the finish line would mean an unfair disadvantage for a good pilot who was running first up until the last stretch, and that should be avoided.

Ben

[ZenDJiNN]

True, but online when you are in the middle of a pack, it's horribly hard to get out of there because of all the weapons fire. You end up falling back too far, consequently no one can target the leader, and the leader speeds off undisturbed by weapons fire:brickwall

Happens to me all the time! :g

But seriously, it IS a racing game, and if you happen to have Poll Position then chances are, if you have a fast ship & you're good & you know the track, you'll speed away & stay 1st for the duration of the race, letting the others fight it out behind you.

A solution that i like is just to turn the weapons "Off" as it makes it a pure "Racing Environment". It would be good if you could perhaps select what weapons were going to be used in a race (before the race) or maybe have a "Minimum, Medium & Maximum" Pre-race weapons choice (Maximum obviously being "Full on").

[Dogg Thang]

Not having the weapons on changes eveything. As much as I get absolutely slaughtered on single races, there hasn't once been a Head to Head on the grid that I didn't get gold first time. And time trial goals don't seem to be punished by poor racing.

I actually had one yesterday that I was tempted to save the ghost for as it was quite funny - Phantom Outpost 7, I did a pinball impression from start to finish just bouncing off the walls and still got gold with 6 seconds to spare.

So as much as the racing skill of the opponents goes up with difficulty, the weapons fire seems to matter much, much more.

[borell]

Pulse is a truly great games, and there are not many things that annoys me. Anyhow, let me mention the most critical annoyance.

-- No race time, or best lap time, is displayed at the end of tournament races. I wonder if this will have the effect that it is more rewarding to play a series of single races instead of setting up a tournament. I think I would prefer a series of single races where one keeps track of the players' scores for each race via msn or some other chat. This would work well as long as one plays with friends.

[phl0w]

I did a pinball impression from start to finish just bouncing off the walls and still got gold with 6 seconds to spare.
Sad, but true. They might as well have put a checkbox instead of the medal, that says "didn't get eliminated". Because the way it is, completing Time Trials is no achievment. And in this case the newcomer-accessability-argument doesn't hold either because getting a Gold medal for a pure awful run can't be satisfying, let alone motivate to get better at the game. My grids are chequerd with "completed" Time Trials and first-lap Golds in Speed Lap events. Did I play them again to improve my time? No, because apparently it was good enough to gain the highest achievement possible. Right now I'm at about 215 Golds which took me approximately a fifth of the time I invested in Pure for the same amount of Golds. Granted, that it wouldn't take that long now that I know Pure in and out, but Pulses tracks are new for the love of God, and still... I don't think the argument that the tracks shouldn't necessarily be the challenge, but the competition, is a valid one, seeing that WO's long-term playability has always come from Time Trialing -> Machine vs. Track.

[JABBERJAW]

Barrel roll question:

I guess this is for colin, For HD will that not being able to barrel roll with other ships around still be in? If so, is there another way to implement it without the 50-50 chance it might work? If not, it would probably be better without it. The reason I ask is I personally like trying to get good times in single race as well, and in order to do so, this means you need to get into first immediately, to get the BR to work.
Also, is there any work being done on the BR for pulse as a download and/or in US version? I know this has been worked on, but that is really frustrating when doing the move correctly and nothing(and actually slowing down a little because of the inputs).

Maybe ditch it for SR?

[Colin Berry]

It will be addressed for HD one way or another :D

[Medusa]

*ditch them ditch them ditch them ditch them*:hyper:hyper

Hope springs eternal in the human heart...

[RingoSpoon]

I think removing the BR would be detrimental - I love the extra dynamic it gives when used with the turbo boost :)

[zargz]

*ditch them ditch them ditch them ditch them*...I second that medusa.

yeh, dich'em!

[ZenDJiNN]

Re: Barrel Rolls, i've gotta say that i really like them. I would rather either have the option to turn them ON/OFF or keep them all together! I find them really useful at times and they've often given me a needed boost just at the right time. They're really useful in TT's and just plain fun to do! :)

[Sausehuhn]

If it's the Barrel-Roll animation that makes it difficult with the framerate, then it's also possible to do the speedboost without the animation, isn't it? It makes no sense anyway :D

[tapioca]

And i guess the main problem is to animate the internal view, because it requires a 360° for everything on screen except the HUD (and not only the player's ship as in external). Well… The speed increase already happens (more or less) on a 3-turbos pad, no matter how many opponents on screen…

So if i'm right, maybe you could just simplify the internal view anim (i don't know… a quick blur and the HUD shaking). That could even enhance the barrel roll ease of use in cockpit view, because even if it's more impressive like it is right now, it can be really tough to keep your line at high speed when you don't see the track for a second. When the screen rotates and then when ship nose aims at the sky.

[RingoSpoon]

I think the majority of these 'ditch it' comments are coming from people who are finding it difficult to BR in Pulse. Heres a tip - make sure you BR on the descent of your jump, and you have the nose pointed down so you can see where you are landing. You should have better success then :)

I think BR's were one of the highlights of Pure - Hours of fun were had playing with BR-Boost combo's - it really added a lot to the strategy. Please you can never remove them :)

[eLhabib]

As far as I understood what Colin said, it's not the animation that causes the difficulties. The input for the BR (left-right-left, or vice-versa) is frame based, so when a frame is skipped due to a drop in framerate because so much is going on (enemy ships, weapons fire, etc.) the input itself gets messed up. What I think would be a good way around this problem would be to change the input to this:

First, while in the air, you have to release off the gas (you don't lose speed in the air anyway afaik), then you do the left-right-left (not frame based, so you can do it really slow, too, if you have the airtime), and then you have to step on the gas again to confirm it. I think that would solve the frame issue, and would also make the BR a little more difficult to use on smaller jumps.

Does that sound reasonable to you, Colin?

[tapioca]

Thanks El Habib, i didn't catch it like that.
So for the nub users, would a quick circle be frame-based too ? (this is what i actually do instead of LRL/RLR). But for the D-Pad, i don't see anything that wouldn't affect the gameplay or require a new button on the PSP (can't use the airbrakes buttons because it would slow you down, XXX bash still sounds like frame-based, the other buttons are already used and would require no skill anyway). And i think a quick time event wouldn't be a good idea… release the gas and wait for a gauge to be filled (according on your speed ?). Would it slow you down first then boost, then ?


…make sure you BR on the descent of your jump…)

I personnaly love Barrel Roll, but on some tracks you have to be very fast if you want to place one (on small jumps), so waiting for the nose to point down is not really possible.

[Sausehuhn]

At least for WO:HD you get two buttons and six axis more for barrel-rolls ;)

[Hyper Shadow]

Spin the pad for a barrel roll :D

[Medusa]

I don't even have Pulse yet. I don't care how difficult BRs are to pull off. Every wipeout game to date has parts which are very difficult to pull off. My problem is the concept of the BR itself. I didn't enjoy Pure as much because the BRs made it very impure. If there has to a gimmick in a racing game, make it hyperthrust, not something totally unbelievable, like spinning your ship around mid-air. They aren't aircraft. They are race craft!

I find the BRs very UNwipeout. Yes the boost they give you is great, yes it is a great divider of the good and the not-so-good pilots, but barrel rolls are just not wipeout. So there.;)

[RingoSpoon]

I think if you had removed them from Pure, it wouldn't have been such an exciting experience.

[G'Kyl]

I'm sort of undecided. On the one hand, BRs do offer an interesting challenge and a great sense of satisfaction if you can pull them off. On the other hand there is one thing I detest about BRs: Time Trials have become slightly less about finding the perfect racing line and more about finding just one more spot to do just one more BR in order to shave of another second off your lap time...

Ben

[Flashback Jack]

But Ben, that's the fun part of analyzing tracks -- figuring out how to maximize your number of boosts/barrel rolls. Some of these tracks you'd never suspect you could barrel roll in certain spots; boosting before the magstrip leading to the start/finish line on De Konstruct White comes to mind. As you come off the magstrip and turn the corner toward the straightaway, you gather just enough air to squeeze in one more barrel roll. Love that, man.

Oddly enough though, I find barrel rolls incredibly easy to pull off. Technique is critical. I barrel roll using the center of the direction pad as a fulcrum (the "meat" of my thumb covers the gap between the direction buttons; I don't use my fingertips except to steer). Barrel rolls done this way require less motion to register the input.

Essentially my entire thumb rolls/twitches along a vertical axis right-left-right rather than my knuckle swinging a wide arc. Works like a charm.

- F

[zargz]

I think if you had removed them from Pure, it wouldn't have been such an exciting experience.I think there's nothing exiting about the BR festivals on classic 2 on Pure :?

so .. whad do I hate about Pulse?

first I wanna say that Hate is a word too strong to use in almost any context :)
so things I'm less happy with in Pulse are among others the BRs.


.. one thing I detest about BRs: Time Trials have become slightly less about finding the perfect racing line and more about finding just one more spot to do just one more BR in order to shave of another second off your lap time...

BenGood point Ben.


I think BRs are not hard to pull of.
my problem with BRs is simply that they don't go well with the realistic world of wipEout.
not with the fysics of the game and not the surroundings (exept the last pack from pure).
here on the forums we've been discussing all from how the antigarvity works till what fuel powers the crafts.
and then we a get a mario cart move in the wo purity ..
what's the scientific explanation of the boost you get? http://geocities.com/zargz/leenden/pjs.gif
pilot jerking the steering wheel L R L then the ship rolls in the air thus acummulating energy from .. eerr ..
and then landing you get the boost from .. eeer .. yeh.
and how about the pilot? :dizzy

wasn't too found of the shield_for_boost thing in wo3
which I'm sure I played in a nintendo game before don't remember now what it was ..

point being there were no BRs nor shield_boost in the first 2-3 games and they rocked
so let's go back to basics as with many other things in Pulse!
Then we might be able to get a working Replay mode with less things to 'capture'
where we really can use the Photo mode to all it's glorious possibilities!

which leads me to the photo mode but that in another post :)

anyway since in my book Pulse is 97% ok :+
I call the left 3% minor annoyances and just live with them.

however, if BRs were gone from next installment that would for sure make me a happier person :D

more to come on another minor annoyances.

[ZenDJiNN]

OK, seing as how BR's are taking a hit, i'll throw in a pet peeve! :)

Eliminator Mode..... What's the point? LOL! I think this is the one mode in Pulse that i could quite easily do without. So much so, that i don't even bother to do them now, regardless of the points earned. I play Wipeout primarily to race, and although i don't mind the weapons too much, a whole mode just for weapons is just a waste of time ..... (for me).


My son LOVEs it however..... must be an age thing! )

[infoxicated]

I think Eliminator is a good laugh, although it does expose the leech beam as the most ridiculously unbalanced weapon ever - it's essentially a one hit kill in no time at all. Conversely, cannon's seem totally pointless in Eliminator.


I don't even have Pulse yet. I don't care how difficult BRs are to pull off. Every wipeout game to date has parts which are very difficult to pull off. My problem is the concept of the BR itself. I didn't enjoy Pure as much because the BRs made it very impure. If there has to a gimmick in a racing game, make it hyperthrust, not something totally unbelievable, like spinning your ship around mid-air. They aren't aircraft. They are race craft!

I find the BRs very UNwipeout. Yes the boost they give you is great, yes it is a great divider of the good and the not-so-good pilots, but barrel rolls are just not wipeout. So there.;)

:+

:clap

I'm tolerating it in Pulse because the mag-strips eliminate many of the opportunities for them. If it wasn't for them in some tracks you'd be pulling off six or seven every lap. Some tracks are worse than others for it, even with the mag-strips, though.

To my mind, so long as barrel rolls are in the game, it'll never truly be WipEout again.

[lunar]

first I wanna say that Hate is a word too strong to use in almost any context :)


totally agree.

I`d be happy if the Race times bug was cleared, and if I could learn to steer a ship in a straight line. Agree with most of the rest of that post too, and the quote from Ben. I think if we`ve got to have BRs then Pulse does them just right, but I wouldn` t miss them.

[Rapier Racer]

After a week of play it's time for me to add to this thread, not 10 things though.

Turbos, have become too powerful and too numerous I went from seventh place to first by using ONE turbo just before the jump on Basilico white, I don't remember the Pure turbo being that poweful, check your stats, chances are it will tell you that turbo is your favourite weapon. Looks like in an attempt to keep the high powered weapon count down the games being flooded with turbos which is great you think yes? More speed? Until you consistently start loosing races because the bastard behind you picked one up and blasted right past you from 500 miles away. I've lost more Pulse races this way to real players and the AI in one week than I did in 2 years with Pure.

When you play online, infrastructure and ad hoc it appears the ships are ALWAYS pointing in some stupid looking out of place position, if it's not going along with all the noses stuck right up in the air it's the ships at a sideways angle, this looks complete crap when racing online I mean whats the reason for that? You don't see this on other games. Pure didn't have this fault therefore it was/is avoidable.

The sodding cannon! The way certain players have learned to fire it is very infuriating, using it in short bursts will keep the target stuck at a snails pace not going anywhere for a long time.

Leech beam, was it really necessary for it to shake the **** out of the ship being attacked as well as drain the life out of it? Overpowered.

[Neverdown]

It's logic that the turbo is your favorite weapon because you used it every lap in Speed Lap and in Time Trail. The turbos you encounter during the normal races are just an extra to that.

[Hail Seizure]

I think Eliminator is a good laugh, although it does expose the leech beam as the most ridiculously unbalanced weapon ever - it's essentially a one hit kill in no time at all. Conversely, cannon's seem totally pointless in Eliminator.

The best strategy I've found for Eliminator is to stay behind the pack for a while and let them soften eachother up, then take a bunch of them out at the same time with a quake or a repulsor. The most simultaneous kills I've achieved with this method so far is 3 or 4, but I'm pretty sure a higher body count could be achieved with the right timing. :D Taking out a heavily weakened ship with a few cannon rounds is also a top laugh.
Funnily enough, this strategy is a lot easier in hard mode, since the AI pilots fire their weapons a lot more and therefore soften eachother up a lot faster. :D

[Sausehuhn]

And don't try to blow them up when they've just passed the finish line. Because the ship's energy has just refreshed then :)

[Asayyeah]

explosion fake racetime being recorded into the stats is what i don't like at all but SL will correct that soon.

Except that there's few minor things : no racetime & laptime for tournament even they are recorded into the stats.
Nose of the ships online ( RR mentionned it) ( not a big problem if you are leading and if you race internal view like me :D )
Into multiplayer the 50 sec waiting for next race of the tournament is not bad at all but i'd liked a way for the hoster to reduce this waiting time at his minimum by simply pressing X.

[Colin Berry]

To my mind, so long as barrel rolls are in the game, it'll never truly be WipEout again.

what is wipeout ?

Wipeout 1 - weapons but no damage
Wipeout 2097 - weapons and pitlanes to regain energy
Wipeout 3 - weapons, pitlanes and shield for turbo mechanic
Wipeout Fusion - weapons, damage affects handling, pitlanes, no speed classes, ship locked to track
Wipeout Pure - weapons, damage, no pitlanes but absorb, barrel rolls
Wipeout Pulse - weapons, damage, absorbs, barrel rolls, mag strips

So exactly what is wipeout ?

Its never been consistent across 2 versions
The most 'realistic version' in terms of real world A would cause B, is possibly fusion given damage affected the ship performance on track, but then it had wierd air vent jump things

Is wipeout 3 what wipeout is ?
Not for me as I really didnt like the shield for turbo mechanic and the force wall weapon was annoying as hell. Was it realistic, is it wipeout ?

Is it wipeout 1, where weapons do no damage but the slow you down, but dont affect anything else.... that in itself is quite arcadey as oposed a real future world

So maybe its wipeout 2097....

But then you cant just keep making the same game

Each game has something different, something new, something that wasnt there before or something remvoed.

what is truly wipeout ?
pitlanes ?
absorb ?
sacrifice shield for turbo ?
weapons cause no damage ?
weapons cause damage but dont affect performance
weapons affect performance ?
ships always floaty but then you can fly through scenery - is that wipeout or is that essentially a bit **** and the result of technology
ships locked to the track ?

my point isnt that barrel rolls are the best thing or worst thing ever, its that the definition of wipeout is different all the time and every game has been different, things come and go.
In the overall context is a barrel roll any more unbelievable than shield strength sacrificing for turbo or absorbing a weapon to get energy or flying over a square on a track to get a speed boost or a weapon ? And is believable the best way to go anyway ? shouldnt fun be the over riding factor ? but then what if believable is fun for some but not for others and what if the unbelievable like a barrel roll, is fun for some but not others, its a minefield of quandries really.

I guess its personal preference at the end of the day not just in terms of barrel rolls or not, but in terms of what Wipeout is. Does the inclusion of Barrel rolsl mean its not truly Wipeout... not for me, I think that is quite over the top. but then my defnition of wipeout is mine, and not yours.

Anyway its nearly xmas can we stop talking about work ? (after your reply which will no douobt bust my balls :( )
I want to know what you are buying me for Christmas Bob ?
:D

edit - sorry for going waaaay off topic, I blame the booze.
I concur no times displayed during a tournament is a pain, addressed for HD.

[Rapier Racer]

I find myself agreeing with that post entirely. Also, Barrel rolls for the win! :hyper

Oh boy that I want to know what you got me for Christmas Bob line was rather amusing! Such cheek eh lol.

[Hyper Shadow]

To me, WipEout is Wip3out. I loved that game despite the force wall and shield/boost mechanic.

I'd like to take the side that favours BR, if we consider WipEout as the evolution of F1, well they keep coming up with new tricks and technology to increase the speed on track. If you want a scientific reason for the BR boost, its a Kinitec Overcharge Device that causes a 100% increase in power from the potential energy created by the barrel motion.

If the BR worked 100% of the time, and that isn't helped by the awful Phat PSP D-Pad, then I doubt we'd be having this discussion.

[Hail Seizure]

The best explanation for all AG technology that I've ever seen is the Douglas Adams quote: "hovering in the air in exactly the same way that bricks don't". :D:D:D

[zargz]

when I first heard about the magstrips in pulse I was a bit sceptical
but as they massively cut the BRs - I love them.

that about BRs

to people who say it's hard to steer in a straight line on magstrips I say:
did you noticed that you can not shoot straight either?
although we don't notice it big amount of time on magstrips we are racing 90¤ from the ground or in a loop up and down!
so could it be gravity that is pulling our leg?
actually I'm not sure about that, it's just a feeling I got :D
might be wrong ..

Good to know the race times in tours will be adressed.

the fact that you can't see which races a tournament contains but just the number of tracks
for me is totally OK. I think the surprise factor is a good thing to keep on your toes the first time you'll race it.
let's face it it ought to be some of the new track on that grid, right? it's not much to it :)
I can see the races on infra. that's enough for me :+

the menu.
Awesome! I'm not a designer and i think it looks ok. i like even the wo3 menu design :p
I like it coz it is functional! also I like minimalism.
pures menu might have been more pure but was a real pain as well.
there were several issues in pures menues
like you couldn't go back to see the race standing after you went to the tour standing in a tournament.
I was so late in to pure so I figured it wasn't worth bitching about it :)

pulse is so much better for example you can go from the first choice in the menu to the bottom choice just by pressing up.
also some menues 'remember' your last choices like what track you raced last on infra, if you are the mod there.


mmm .. later!

gotta go get my infra fix now! ;)

[jacen]

to people who say it's hard to steer in a straight line on magstrips I say:
did you noticed that you can not shoot straight either?

i was thinking the same thing and will test that out now.

/edit:
i tried moa therma because it has both a vertical and a horizontal magstrip
-) projectiles are not deflected on horizontal magstrips
-) projectiles get deflected upwards in the vertical looping part

gonna try de konstruct now to see for vertical non-bendt magstrips

/edit2:
well ... im not entirely sure that de konstructs magstrips are vertical,
but the projectiles dont get deflected on the straigt part of the magstrip.
but as soon they are on the curved part, they get deflected towards "up".
up refers to the real upwards direction ... at least i think it is.


actually i even think this should be physically correct, at least if you
leave out friction effects. but i might be wrong ... i only study physics.

[Hail Seizure]

The main mag strip on De Konstruct is horizontal, tilted 90 degrees relative to the ground (so it's basically a big hairpin with a 90 degree camber).
On the white version you'll see the ground to your right and the sky to your left, and vice versa on the black version.

[jacen]

The main mag strip on De Konstruct is horizontal, tilted 90 degrees relative to the ground.
that would make it vertical, no? i mean the lateral axis of the track is standing upright. not like in vertica where the lateral axis of the track is still horizontal.

[infoxicated]

I guess its personal preference at the end of the day not just in terms of barrel rolls or not, but in terms of what Wipeout is. Does the inclusion of Barrel rolsl mean its not truly Wipeout... not for me, I think that is quite over the top. but then my defnition of wipeout is mine, and not yours.
My beef with barrel rolls is that they add a blatantly contrived element to the gameplay. Why should spinning the ship around give me a speed boost? There are already game mechanics for that - turbo start, speed pads, and the turbo pick-up. The speed boost thing was covered - if I want to go faster in addition to those speed boosts then it's up to me to play the game well.

I think the rest of the stuff done in WipEout (force walls from WipEout 3 and Quake aside) just seems so much more considered than barrel rolls. If doing a barrel roll gives you a speed boost, why stop there? Rumble Racing was doing back flips, barrel rolls and insane twist combinations for turbo boosts in a racing game back in 2001. If being cutting edge and re-inventing things with every new edition was the name of the game then surely Gran Turismo should have ramps and short cuts by now? Surely we should be doing flat-spins, front and back flips, and any combination of that lot in WipEout.

With barrel rolls we also have this game mechanic that is essential to perform in order to achieve a fast lap time. However, by your own admission, it sometimes doesn't work because of a frame rate dip. So you can be performing an otherwise perfect lap, only to miss a barrel roll for whatever reason - was it me? was it a frame rate dip? is it being caused by the disappearing HUD bug? (couldn't BR at the Amphiseum at all last night and I had the broken HUD bug.)

In WipEout 3 I could consistently get close to my fastest lap times. Occasionally I'd put it all together for all of the laps and set a new record. It felt under my control. With barrel rolls and their fallibility, I don't feel like I am truly in charge of a good lap. I feel like a need a fluke of a race where I nail all the barrel rolls. And when I miss one I feel like I've been robbed of an otherwise spotless performance.

We also have the risk in multiplayer whereby the player at the back of a pack has less chance of executing a barrel roll than a guy at the front of the pack. The player who needs it most can be denied it because their console is drawing more on the screen and their frame rate is more likely to dip. That isn't something that's true of any other other aspect of the game - weapons, thrust, absorb (which I think is a good replacement for pit lanes, by the way - that's evolution) can be relied upon to perform when the player needs them to.

So, what if we fix the frame rate dips and you can flawlessly perform barrel rolls each and every time as if it was merely a button press rather than a button combo. Well, then they become something that's executed with such triviality as to be pointless. It'd be like the up-across-up combo that I use to go from second to third gear when I'm driving my car. Occasionally I miss it and it costs me some time, but 99% of the time it's so automatic that I don't even think about it. Might as well be driving an automatic because it might as well be automatic.

Now, you frequently bring up WipEout 3 and it's use of shield energy as a game mechanic as an example of how that game is not WipEout as you define it. But to me it makes perfect sense. Your ship has a pool of energy that is drawn from to power the shields. You can also borrow from it to give your engines some extra performance, but you risk leaving yourself vulnerable. That seems reasonable to me - risk and reward, and in terms of the game universe it's well thought out.

Force walls I'll give you - they're daft. Not as daft as barrel rolls, but daft I agree.


Anyway its nearly xmas can we stop talking about work ? (after your reply which will no douobt bust my balls :( )
I want to know what you are buying me for Christmas Bob ?
:D
We're not talking about work, we're talking about the game! :D

I was getting you a grand and a pint for xmas... but you'll have to settle for a pint. :beer

[swift killer]

I agree with Rob, force walls and barrel rolls ARE DAFT. Hyperthrust from WO3 is a more balanced system if it is reintroduce than SL should make sure that the AI uses it as well, its so easy to cake-walk the AI in phantom class with the use of barrel rolls simply because the AI did not use it.

[off topic but in response to what Colin said before]
For WipEout to be WipEout, there should not be things in the game that are way too over the top or damn right ennoying (other than getting hit by the AI which is pretty much part of the game). That said, it's good to have some elements that are over the top which just make look and think 'wow, that is amazing', for me WipEout Fusion had plenty of those in its track design (other than the trackless sections), it was pretty much let down alot but other elements in the game.[/off topic]

[rageagainstgeorge]

That's a brilliant post infox. Very close to my feelings on weapons in the game.

I agree with you 100% about the hyperthrust feature aswell. It's a delicate comprise when you use it - too much and you're dead, to little and you'll miss out on the top times.

I think that Wipeout should have some pickups. The turbo and the shield are fine for me. I agree aswell, the absorb function is brilliant. All the others however I feel don't fit in that well. Some stand out more than others. Barrell rolls are the same, no reason for them to be in the came. Anything that adds in the element of chance to the game takes away the fun for me.

I thought that Wipeout without weapons would be boring but myself, Stin, Hypershadow, Zargz and TomatoJoe and a great no weapons tournament the other night. Just as exciting as the other weapons tourney we raced.

[G'Kyl]

I'd love to be more elaborate about BRs and the very interesting stuff that's been said, but since right now I don't have the time...


But Ben, that's the fun part of analyzing tracks

Naaaw, I have to disagree. :) What it really comes down to is this: To me, what's great about analyzing the track is finding the ideal _racing_ line - not the perfect _stunt_ line. We got Burnout Paradise for that. ;)

Ben

[zargz]

There are already game mechanics for that - turbo start, speed pads, and the turbo pick-up.yeh, that should cover it. for BRs and shield_for_boost 8)

[Colin Berry]

I wrote a really, really long reply, but based on some of what it says I cant really post it and I havent the time to edit it :) I'll save it for a car journey in the new year :D

In short though, we've had this conversation for ages, we disagree and neither of us are going to change on that. I think they are fun and have a place in Pure and Pulse, you dont. Beyond Pure and Pulse, who knows, maybe the next one with see them dropped or stay or expanded - super wipeout stunt racer extreme FX 500000 ! no probably not.

As for the hyper thrust thing, in short, I dont like the way it plays, I dont like that it forces you to pit every lap (assuming you want to use the thrust to compete) I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop, and the system as it was in WO3 wouldnt work alongside the absorb mechanic, which in my mind works far better than pit-lanes. I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.

And you should know me well enough to know 1k cant buy me ! With or without a pint thrown in.

Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... . .

[Fascia]

I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop

I have to agree completely there, the new 'absorb' system is perhaps one of the best changes to happen to the series' gameplay.

While in theory, I believe the barrel roll mechanic is sound, as my fellow zoners said, its implimentation could use some tweaking. My personal biggest problem with it is how 'random' it is, and that the majority of the fastest laps require a barrel roll in the most akward of places, after the concordia loop on talons junction for example, making it all that more frustrating to get a decent time.

[swift killer]

I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.

How about rewarding the player boost refills as a reward for hitting opponent with weapon fire and/or perfect sections?


Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... .

Probably not my business, buy I'm guessing you went crazy and got an XBOX 360. The irony; Sony Employee buys rival product!:p

I absolutely hated the pitlanes in the older games, sometimes they would put you right out of contension for a race win, the absorb system is pretty much a stroke of genius the way I see it.

[Dogg Thang]

Is it a box of chocolates? Or scorpians? Or... chocolate scorpions?

On pitlanes, yeah I agree on those but, you know, they were a side effect of bringing in the concept of destroying ships which was not a part of the original WO. Actual ship damage was rare enough back then that the pit lane was usually only ever needed if you raced badly and hit the walls - at which point you're probably not going to win anyway and the pit lane makes you even slower so adding double punishment.

Whereas the original WO already had a punishment system in place - time.

So the pit lanes to me are just a symptom of that shift. Absorb system is much better, but the move gathered serious momentum in the meantime.

[Medusa]

(I hope Colin reads the Poll thread (that would be the thread "So what is Wipeout to you?" in the Wipeout Future forum) which really answers his question 2 pages back. Because my answer has nothing to do with Pulse and that's what this thread is supposed to be about, haha.)

In the end it's not about what each individual likes/doesn't like, it's about what truly defines WipEout as a great and incredibly unique game. I hope the designers try to keep to its uniqueness and never toss in new components only for the sake of "keeping it fresh" or "making it friendly for beginners".

[Lance]

}agrees with Medusa{

}and loves boost for shield since it adds so much to the tactics and decision making{

[Dogg Thang]

In terms of boost for shield, thankfully the barrel rolls are limited by where you can pull them off.

[jacen]

i do like boost for shield AND barrel rolls.
what noone has thought of here ... what if barrel rolls would cost more energy (like ... 30%) and you could do them anywhere you like.
this way they kinda would work like boost for shield. they should be harder to pull off aswell so it really requires skill to use them.


the way i see it, they bacame even more powerful in pulse, as you now can take all the speed you get from brs around corners. thats something that didn't work out in pure.

[Dogg Thang]

Making them harder to do only makes Foxy's point more relevant (which I completely agree with). Miss one barrel roll when you're going for a top time and you may as well restart.

As for being able to do it anywhere and cost more energy, that would make a current problem much, much worse. I'm just mopping up the last of the golds in Pulse (have 5 left). Now I should point out that I'm not the greatest WO player by a long shot. But on those Phantom tournaments, there are pretty much only two outcomes in each race for me - 1st, or eliminated. If I survive, I'm usually way ahead of the pack. So it's not about racing in those ones. It's just about being lucky to survive.

If you make the boost/shield available anywhere, that would mean that would pretty much always be the case. It's do or die. 1st or eliminated.

Personally, I don't think that's fun.

[Rapier Racer]

Theres one other small issue I have to mention, the horrible colors on the Zone tracks, I find it really hard to make out some parts of Platinum Rush white on Zone mode because of the blinding bright blue, frustrating to say the least.

[infoxicated]

I wrote a really, really long reply, but based on some of what it says I cant really post it and I havent the time to edit it :) I'll save it for a car journey in the new year :D

Shame... you could have pm'd me :)

In short though, we've had this conversation for ages, we disagree and neither of us are going to change on that. I think they are fun and have a place in Pure and Pulse, you dont. Beyond Pure and Pulse, who knows, maybe the next one with see them dropped or stay or expanded - super wipeout stunt racer extreme FX 500000 ! no probably not.

As for the hyper thrust thing, in short, I dont like the way it plays, I dont like that it forces you to pit every lap (assuming you want to use the thrust to compete) I dont like pitlanes for Wipeout full stop, and the system as it was in WO3 wouldnt work alongside the absorb mechanic, which in my mind works far better than pit-lanes. I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.
I like the absorb system - removing pit lanes keeps you on the track and keeps you racing. Plus it takes away the tedium of having to limp around the track to get to the pit lane when your energy is critical.

Oh and you aint going to be happy when you see what box I have by my tv... . .
It wont fuss me, to be honest - we play different types of game anyway. While I'll be playing shooters and racing games, you'll be playing Pro Evo and what not. :)

[Frances_Penfold]

I have flip-flopped on the issue of barrel rolls several times since first playing Wipeout Pure.

I think my final conclusion is similar to Asayeah's-- that BRs are a great addition because they add a whole new level of strategy for time trials. How many BRs can I fit into this lap? In this section of the track, is it faster to hit the boost pad and stay low, or go high and barrel roll? Can I even steer the ship if I barrel roll at that tight corner?

It's the combination of barrel rolls, side-shifting and air-breaking that makes time trials interesting with Wipeout Pure and Pulse-- without these mechanics, lap times would reach a plateau quickly as folks identify the single best line through the course.

I might add that my love of barrel rolls in Pure increased greatly when I released that ANY ship (not just Triakus) can barrel roll repeatedly in lap time trials-- meaning that several other ships (Zone, Goteki, Icarus and others) become viable in top-level lap time trials racing. Of course, Triakus has the edge for whole-race time trialing in Wipeout Pure because it can barrel roll over and over without completely depleting the shields.


With barrel rolls we also have this game mechanic that is essential to perform in order to achieve a fast lap time. However, by your own admission, it sometimes doesn't work because of a frame rate dip. So you can be performing an otherwise perfect lap, only to miss a barrel roll for whatever reason - was it me? was it a frame rate dip?

Fair enough-- but barrel rolls DO work flawlessly in Pure and Pulse if you are playing time trials.

This may be a "Mario Kart" mentality but I have always felt that racing games are primarily about time trials-- multiplayer is just a fun diversion. So I'm willing to stomach some inconsistency with performing BRs in multiplayer for the added dimensions they give to the time trial modes :) I'm sure other folks feel differently about that.

As an aside, I suspect that more casual gamers-- gamers that enjoy Wipeout as an occassional diversion rather than a serious hobby-- probably dig the barrel roll for its cool visuals and boost-ing feeling. It's eye candy that may help increase the franchise base outside of the hardcore racing crowd.

[phl0w]

It's eye candy that may help increase the franchise base outside of the hardcore racing crowd.Whom, i.e. the non-hardcore-crowd, the game hopefully does not intend to cater to in the long run...

[Frances_Penfold]

^^
I am with you :)

But it is important that, somehow, Wipeout continues to find a reasonably-sized audience.

[HISHO[JP]]

I don' have Pulse bacause waiting for JP version.
But I can say some things I hate about Pulse.

Countdown effect(display?) is shown only first-person view or zone mode.
I love that countdown effect (better than Pure's) so I wanna use it on third-person view too!:bomb

Photo mode format is JPEG only.
I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.
It should be selectable from JPG and PNG.

[new]Shadow of crafts disappears in some places, such as around mag strip virtical wave section in moa therma.
(Pure has this too. In Pure, it disappears after the first jump point in Koltiwa)


Will some bugs which is found in EU version be fixed in US and other versions?
Will downloadable teams have alternative skins?
(Because Pure's downloadable crafts has no special skins...)

[jacen]

;76154']Photo mode format is JPEG only.
I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.
It should be selectable from JPG and PNG.

I've made a comparision and to be honest, i can't spot a pixel difference.
but i'm currently on a very cheap lcd display and generally not that sensible
to differences in static pictures.
see for yourself:

bmp:
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/333/snap0079rr6.th.png (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/333/snap0079rr6.png)

jpeg:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6488/wo20071224084002uu4.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6488/wo20071224084002uu4.jpg)

maybe they use like quality 95 or so.

/edit:
yes this is a "real" png.
converted from a full quality bmp.
it was not upconverted from the jpeg if you think.

[rdmx]

Nah, it's that the game natively saves the image as png, not you convert the jpg to png. The converted image of course will be exactly the same.

[jacen]

please read what i wrote:
"it was not upconverted from the jpeg if you think."

the png i linked does NOT come directly from the game but is a bmp dump of the framebuffer or some other internal psp cache.
proof:
have a look at this image and look at the profile name (http://jacen.kicks-ass.org/img/Screenshots/PSP/Wipeout%20Pulse/batch1_snap0006.jpg)

[Egg]

;76154']I don' have Pulse bacause waiting for JP version.
But I can say some things I hate about Pulse.

Uh oh! Things you hate about a game you don't own.


Countdown effect(display?) is shown only first-person view or zone mode.
I love that countdown effect (better than Pure's) so I wanna use it on third-person view too!:bomb

Is that right? I'm sure we set it based on how visible the 'banner' is from your start position. It might have been changed at the last minute.


Photo mode format is JPEG only.
I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.
It should be selectable from JPG and PNG.

As mentioned, there's no discernable difference, especially on a 480x272 image. I assume JPG is used because it's such a universal format - people without conversion software can view JPGs on just about any device.


[new]Shadow of crafts disappears in some places, such as around mag strip virtical wave section in moa therma.
(Pure has this too. In Pure, it disappears after the first jump point in Koltiwa)

Sigh. We never did solve that problem. However, import the game and you'll notice it's hardly a deal-breaker...

[Fascia]

...Odd

When playing moa therma I notice the shadow slide down the magstrip, perpendicular to the ship as I move onto the vertical strip as it would in real life due to the sun now being 'from the side' of the ship. It never seemed broken to me...

[jacen]

Is that right? I'm sure we set it based on how visible the 'banner' is from your start position. It might have been changed at the last minute.
thing is, in 3rd person view, you can ALLWAYS see the banner. i have never seen the counter except in zone mode because of this.
now i like the banner way better, but he might think otherwise.

but thats about the same thing as me wanting to have more controll over the graphical aspects of the game to further improve my framerate in phantom single races, eliminations and tournaments. i DO notice the framedrops but i guess it's quite irrelevant for the overall product.

[HISHO[JP]]

I made a picture about something of this (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=76154&postcount=106).
191
(pictures are from some videos.)


;76154']
I wanna save the photo as a loss-less format, PNG.

For example, in case of you want to edit by graphics editor,
re-compressing causes more deterioration.
So original file should be no compressed format or loss-less format
to protect from deterioration.

So sorry!:( I replaced the picture with less than 50k in size.
(...then, why is the uploadable jpg file limit set to 97k? I think it should be 50k to prevent ban...)

[Chrono]

As a photographer, I sympathize with you about compressed images, however, we're lucky to be getting the photo mode, so you gotta take what you're dealt. There are external screen shot apps for PSP, that might take the image in a loss-less format. Uncompressed images are larger, and I would assume that most PSP games developers are creating features with the idea that PSP users have a 256meg card, instead of a 4 gig and two 1 gig cards.


I think i might have rambled there, I kinda let my mind wander while I wrote it, so...I dunno, whatever:blarg

[jacen]

okay some "bugs" or annoyances that i observed:

-) when playing zone, you don't see your past record for niether points nore zones
-) when surfing to wipeout-game.com and looking at the rankings with the psp, you cant flip through the pages ... what the hell?
-) why the 20 mp3 limit?
-) why no support for menu themes?
-) no grid sharing over the internet or even exporting the grid to some shareable format
-) no replay saving, although i can undestand that
-) has been said before: no elimination online

there probably is more ... i still gave the game over 90% in my review -_-

[Chrono]

The one thing I hate the most is the waiting period after matches. I can handle it online, though it is a bit long, but what I can't handle, or understand, is why...why is it still a 40 second wait on AD-HOC matches. This is just ridiculous.

[zargz]

I use that time to rub it in my friends faces.
also some times together with the loading time and intro for each track - to go to the loo!
if in a 12 races tourny :D
what more .. eat/drink between races.
I dont think it's a problem. I think it's ok :+

[HISHO[JP]]

Japanese players mind the waiting times such as loading times.
So waiting period after matches may be critical.

[Chrono]

Load times are insignificant if you play off your card, but 40something secs after each multiplayer race...come on

[swift killer]

The heffing cheaters online! DAMN YOU!!:bomb

[BARTgai]

i think the reason the shadow is missing in that area is because the track appears darker, and is itself in a much bigger shadow

[zargz]

I must be the only one here to notice this coz I normally listen to the music the first 2-3 days only
then i race without music both on single player and multiplayer :D
it's a bummer but as I said before not a biggie, although good if fixed for next time.

Welcome to Sokana - the classic welcome to every track (good for us to know how to pronounce them ;)) since wo64.

in Pulse it's connected to the music volume together with the short track intro.
so I can't hear The_Welcome which i find very cool and wipEout 8) nor the track intro.
talking about that, the intro is cool the first 2-3 times then I just skip it.

perhaps an 'intro on/off' option and the welcome being heard even if the intro is skipped would be a good way fore next one :)

cheers!

[Hail Seizure]

If you go to the playlist screen and turn all the songs off, but leave the music level at maximum, you'll still hear the track intros and the "welcome to..." bit.

[zargz]

:eek !!!

cheers!:+

[Asayyeah]

I do however like the idea of the player having a boost system at their disposal.
Can we add a 3rd choice to player ? : swallow weapons, firing them or transform them in mini boost ( proportionnal to their impact : quake or plasma = mini boost will have a longer action than mines or shield.)
Maybe we can leave the BR on a side with that kind of system... but ...

Personnaly as you know i'm living very well with BR that is just a matter of adaptation. Every wipeout got his own new evolution like you described before, Colin. For me Fusion did impressed me the more with the new zone mode : truly a brand new fantastic mode which resume perfectly for me Wipeout : the neverending ultimate-speed quest. Then came pure with the 1st step into multiplayer : ok that was a bit underground through kai but for those who enjoyed those fighty moments we deeply thought multiplayer mode through online will be the new future challenge for Wipeout, the new step.
And here we are with Pulse, online infra mode deployed his wings and beginns to take off, ok everything is not perfect ( at least one thing to link to the original idea of this topic :g ) but hey! we are connected and we are flying ( high with Icaras :D...ok not yet but we are trying ;))

So for future i am very confident : wipeout won't have 4 wheels and won't glue to the track and will have insane speed : that 's all i want and very open to other new evolution :cowboy

[HISHO[JP]]

i think the reason the shadow is missing in that area is because the track appears darker, and is itself in a much bigger shadow
How about this?
192
Edit: If you can't still believe, watch this video (http://www.jeuxvideo.tv/wipeout-pulse-video-188872.html).

Lags problem in infrastructure multiplayer is helpless. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=fP_6TOHoifs)
One of Japanese player who got EU Pulse is playing
infrastructure multiplayer in this video. Too high lags...
And no alerts against other players' attack...?

[Fascia]

Who in their right mind is going to be looking at their ships shadow and not at the next turn which is flying towards you at 800KM/h.

I think you're really blowing this VERY minor glitch WAY out of proportion.

Edit: Infact, I don't think there's a glitch there at all, the shadow is merely being hidden by either the engine wake, or a larger shadow by a building, in regards to online lag, yes, it is like that, but it's really not as bad as it looks.

[zargz]

hey hisho, good job with those pix :D
but I never notice the shadow while racing single player nor online - that is nothing man!
so I wouldn't worry too much about that.
something that should be fixed instead of this, imo is the possible cheats with them turbo and leech weapons :?

[Hyper Shadow]

Looking at those pictures Hisho, I don't believe ther is a problem:
3)Surface is as dark as the shadow, so it won't appear
Metropia)No shadow, but thats not saying that the light source is close to the horizon so the shadow appears well behind the craft
4)There is a shadow in that pic, look carefully at the thrust wake

Shadow is hardly a deal breaker anyway.

[Frances_Penfold]

I agree with the other folks, Hisho-- I don't think that you will even notice the shadow "glitch" in real-time play, if there is a glitch there :)


;76286']One of Japanese player who got EU Pulse is playing infrastructure multiplayer in this video. Too high lags...


So far I have been impressed with the smoothness of online play-- and I am mostly racing European players whilst in my house in the U.S. I have not personally seen the kinds of lag that is shown in the video :)

It's definitely true, however, that if you are playing folks across the globe, from long ways away, your PSP won't be receiving information fast enough from the other players', and so the in-game estimates of where the other players are driving will be somewhat off. For example, U.S. gamers that have imported JUMP games (for the Nintendo DS) from Japan have found lots of laggy connections to deal with when playing the predominantly Japanese gamer community.

[eLhabib]

Can we add a 3rd choice to player ? : swallow weapons, firing them or transform them in mini boost ( proportionnal to their impact : quake or plasma = mini boost will have a longer action than mines or shield.)

Wow! I think that's a GREAT idea Arnaud! Imagine there wouldn't even be a dedicated turbo pickup, just the chance to convert weapons into turbo power. So when you absorb a weapon, with the circle button, you get shield energy, but if you absorb it with for example L2 (PS3 controller), you fill up a turbo bar. Weak weapons give you little energy, strong weapons a lot. For example something as powerfull as a Quake or Plasmabolt would fill the bar all up, while it would take about 4 Mines or Rockets to fill it. Then, by pressing R2, you can release the turbo power, and depending on how full the turbo bar is, you get a longer or shorter boost! That would also split the community in different racing styles: agressive players who fire a lot, and purists who collect as much boost as they can! Colin, I hope you read this - I LOVE the idea!

[Sausehuhn]

Ridge Racer anyone? I dunno, but I'm not such a big fan of filling a nitro-bar and get the "ultimate boost" then. Sounds nice on paper, but I think it won't work ingame. Maybe it's just me.

[Asayyeah]

it's nothing to do with Ridge Racer Max and its nitrobar you are using all of the bar in 1 time , you knwo it's like more or less a system ala W3O hyperthrust : you can get all the bar in one ( ermm limited to 25% ;) ) or you can 'spray' it like the mini gun online ( prrrt, prrrrt, prrrrt ) so only when it's needed and not the whole bar in one.

[eLhabib]

exactly! it's like a hyperthrust that doesn't draw from the shield but eats up weapon pickups instead!

[Task]

Can we add a 3rd choice to player ? : swallow weapons, firing them or transform them in mini boost ( proportionnal to their impact : quake or plasma = mini boost will have a longer action than mines or shield.)
Maybe we can leave the BR on a side with that kind of system... but ...I'm afraid that that's likely to be one of those ideas that _sounds_ really good, but doesn't end up working well in practice.

Looking at it from a game design standpoint, if a weapon pad can give you a boost, then there's no point in having boost pads. So making the change you describe would likely entail removing of boost pads. Which, while it could be really interesting, I think I prefer having to make the choice of the "speed line" or the "pickup line". It really makes the track itself have intrinsic strategy requirements, totally awesome in my book.

I think we all agree that adding "more speed" to the game is good, but we'll all probably also agree that it really has to be done correctly. Hyperthrust was great in W3O, but since absorb is awesome and we're keeping it we definitely can't go back to that old system, because again that would just turn weapons into speed. Not that "going back" is something we should ever be doing in WO anyway. 8 )

What we've got is the BR system, that while it gives us the 'more speed' that we're all after, I think we can all also agree that it could work better. Either more reliably, or whatever.

So we've got something that works, but there are some problems with the implementation, so it looks like what we really need is a totally different idea, much like what you're suggesting Arnaud, but unconnected to shield or track pads.

I propose something totally different. Pitch out BR, for all the reasons given, but replace it with another 'more speed' system: The better you are, the faster you go.

As long as you're flying at max speed, not scraping walls, not getting hit by weapons, flying a clean line along the track, your afterburner bar fills up. As long as you've got anything in the afterburner bar you can come off the gas and stomp back down on it and that'll turn on your afterburners for additional thrust and speed. Of course, the bar runs out and the system turns off, but you can also manually turn it off by again coming off the gas and going back on. So in this manner you can build up charge and store it for use in critical areas, or you can just burn it all on the straight, whatever you want. This gives us a 'more speed' feature that isn't connected to the pads or the shields in any way (and is therefore implementable) and isn't a 'hadouken' gimmick in any way/shape/form, no special key combinations or even additional buttons required. So it's still playable on the PSP and everything.

I think that's the kind of thing we should hope to see in the next iteration of the franchise, long may it live.

[Chrono]

I agree with Task. The game wouldn't feel like Wipeout. Instead, players would be rushing item pads hoping to get lucky for a clutch extra boosts

[phl0w]

I just read "pitch out BR"... So I agree too ^^

Seriously, the Barrel Roll technique is one of Videogames' history worst designs ever, right up there with Snaking in MK. Actually, it's one concept, button combination and effect, all the same, plus they're both extremely annoying. ^^

[Asayyeah]

i agree Jay we may loose interest of the boost pads.

I like your idea to have a 'more speed feeling' without involving the track pad and shield but i don't like the way we need to release the X button and then immediately push it down ( ala the 'kick down' effect for automatic transmission cars) and 3 bars needs to be displayed on the screen ( speed one, shield and the afterburner one ) that is maybe too much ?

Boost pad is giving a fast trust in a minimum of time and then dicreasing so why not ( in extension of your idea : " As long as you're flying at max speed, not scraping walls, not getting hit by weapons, flying a clean line along the track" , ) maintaining this speed you got from the boostpad and then getting more speed again on the next pad ( if you don't hit wall, perfect line etc...) so you ll will have the choice of building your speed by racing a perfect line only limited to your habilities to handle high speed.
In that case no need to push buttons ( except constantly the thrust button :) ) and the speed feeling will be there.

[zargz]

Good idea asa! skip the double X press!
you took tasks idea one step further so allow me to take it one more.

how about we just keep the normal boost you get from the speedpads and just skip the BRs!?? http://geocities.com/zargz/leenden/lol.gif

you will get rewarded for a perfect line - the fastest time!

funny how taking the idea 2 steps further we get back to what it was before ;)

as they say:

http://geocities.com/zargz/leenden/old.gifit was better before!


:D

[Lance]

Bloody hell, zargz, you're as much of a minimalist and purist as me! :rock

[Frances_Penfold]

Seriously, the Barrel Roll technique is one of Videogames' history worst designs ever, right up there with Snaking in MK. Actually, it's one concept, button combination and effect, all the same, plus they're both extremely annoying

Sorry to veer slightly off topic here but I wanted to comment here :)

Most members of the hardcore Mario Kart community (which is surprisingly large and dedicated) think that "snaking" (back and forth mini turbos) is what make time trialing so INTERESTING in Mario Kart Double Dash and Mario Kart DS. It does add nuance-- ordering of mini-turbos, the line through the course that allows the most mini-turbos, the speed of mini-turbos, the consistency of the mini-turbos. I think that much the same could be said about barrel rolls for time trialing in Wipeout Pure and Pulse.

My problem with snaking in Mario Kart isn't the technique per se, it's the terrible strain it puts on your hands to implement it. At one point I was somewhat highly ranked in Mario Kart DS (maybe 30th in the U.S. and 130th in the world, amongst perhaps 600-800 dedicated participants?) but retired to save my wrists. Barrel rolls, in contrast, just aren't that taxing on the hands-- at most we are talking about 5-10 per lap rather than dozens and dozens of mini-turbos in Mario Kart.

Personally, I think the main issue with barrel rolls are that they can't be consistently done in head-to-head races and multiplayer because of the framerate. For time trialing, however, they work well and DO add several layers of strategy and planning to the process.

Anyway-- I completely understand that some of you long-time wipers dislike the barrel roll, and I'm sure that coming Wipeout games will be good even if the mechanic is scrapped.

But I DO hope that, whatever takes the place of barrel rolls, adds a similar level of complexity and nuance to the racing mechanic. We do NOT want obvious perfect laps that can be achieved with a few days of practicing! (At least, not in my opinion :) )

[Lance]

''We do NOT want obvious perfect laps that can be achieved with a few days of practicing! (At least, not in my opinion )''

Oddly enough, though, that's exactly the way real-life present-day racing is. Coming as near as possible to doing perfect laps despite the competition getting in the way and altering your lines is the challenge real-life racers face, and find satisfying to achieve. And they don't even have the additional complication of weapons. It's been the typical situation of racing since the first closed-course automobile racing venues were opened in 1907. Brooklands being the more notable of them. Something about the simple concept must be fairly good. :)

[Medusa]

Perfect laps may be obvious to anyone. The point in wipeout is to get a faster perfect lap. While it may take only days to master perfect laps, with some tracks you could argue that the absolute fastest perfect lap could take years to master. Ex. Portokora vs. Spilskinanke. I wonder how many in the forum consistently manage PL on Spilskinanke, nevermind have a perfect lap that they felt they couldn't improve on.

On the topic of racing complexity - isn't the whole idea of wipeout's racing complexity supposed to be centred on the speed? Faster speed class, more complex.:?:

[Frances_Penfold]

Oops, it occurs to me that I shouldn't use the word "perfect lap" because of its historical use in Wipeout games to mean a lap in which you haven't hit any walls or opponents.

What I really mean is, the "ideal racing line that permits execution of a lap in the shortest possible time in the absence of other players or weapons fire." In the perfect world, there would probably be only one ideal racing line-- but because players differ in their skill levels and choices of ships, there may be multiple ideal racing lines.

If you look at older racing games that have a large following, one continues to see better and better lap times being achieved. Mario Kart 64 was released in 1996 but lap times and race times CONTINUE to be improved, even very recently. This is a testament to the complexity of the MK64 gameplay and the committed (obsessive?) driving by its fans.

The barrel roll adds incredible complexity to time trialing in Wipeout Pulse and Wipeout Pure-- the number and position of possible barrel roll locations is very high, and varies based on play style, pitch control and ship selection. Nearly three years following its release, I don't believe that lap and race times are anywhere near reaching a plateau in Pure.

But if there were no barrel rolls, and players only had to map out one turbo boost point ('shroom spots' as we call them in Mario Kart) and hit as many boost pads as possible, we would see most experienced players achieving similar lap times after several hundred attempts. Cursory study of the "Arena" forum page and the time trial pages indicates that this isn't the case. Hell, I am a relative n00b at Wipeout and recently submitted some no. 2 and no. 3 lap times in Pure that were achieved with the Zone ship, of all things ;)

I agree, Medusa, that speed per se adds difficulty and complexity to racing lines. But part of the reason is that, in Wipeout Pure and Pulse, speed increases air time, and hence opportunities for barrel rolls. Ideally, I would like a game that raced on Vector or Venom speeds, have many opportunities and strategies possible for obtaining faster lap times :)


.... that's exactly the way real-life present-day racing is. Coming as near as possible to doing perfect laps despite the competition getting in the way and altering your lines is the challenge real-life racers face

This is another philosophy that I honestly haven't considered much :) My belief is that, ideally, there should be as much variation in possible strategy and execution as possible-- to provide incentive for continued innovation. But other folks may feel differently!

[Lance]

As simple as WO1 and WO2 seemingly are, the times continue to be improved after more than 11 years, and even the top pilots are well separated from each other despite some intense challenges in which a very large number of laps and hours have been put in. And that is without any change in the stats of the ships or consoles whatever. The challenge and extreme difficulty of making driver performance more perfect and more consistent is still there. I'm not even sure if the perfect lines have been found, since continued effort has managed to whack whole seconds off some times of these very old games just in the past few months. The longevity of their challenge and interest is really extraordinary. They're currently pushed to the side because there's a new game to explore, but their time for being played will come again.

[Frances_Penfold]

Glad to hear that time trials are still active with the older games-- perhaps I am inflating the importance of barrel rolls :) I'm sure that SL will make sure that, whatever mechanic is used in future iterations of Wipeout, that it keeps the gameplay complex and interesting.

Off-topic here, but I am embarrassed to say that I never owned a PS1-- which of the Wipeout games would you recommend going back to first?

[G'Kyl]

All of them. ;-) The thing is that all three offer a different challenge and are quite different in style. Personally, I recommend 2097/XL, but you better have a look at "which do you like best"-discussions from recent years.

I couldn't agree more with Lance: It is amazing to see how lap and race records can still be improved significantly after so many years. Personally, I come back all previous WipEout games every once in a while and have a go at some of my times. In terms of the joy, the challenge and the longevity of finding that perfect lap, that perfect race you simply don't need barrel rolls - likings and dislikings of this new mechanic aside.

Ben

[jacen]

with all the br-craze ... why don't you guys switch to zone? because zone is not only about the best lane, but also about focus over serveal minuts and your skills with inconsistent speed-classes.

[G'Kyl]

why don't you guys switch to zone? [...]


[...] with inconsistent speed-classes.

That's why. ;)

Plus, you're not being rewarded with lap times. Naturally so, as it doesn't make any sense, but records are what I'm after.

[zargz]

Getting a bit in to the game, grid 10 now, and with the higher speed/classes,
Rapier in particular, the slight annoyance at BRs is growing in to a raging frustration!
just the fact that there's been problems with the implementation of this feature
in Both pure and pulse should be enough to eliminate it from the next game.
never mind the tekken combo needed to perform it and the cartoonish or 'unrel' mechanics of it ..

:bomb

[Asayyeah]

For those who want to know their limits in term of highest speed they can handle : zone is definitely the challenge especially on Pulse.

With Fusion zone mode the speed was not increasing after zone 60
Zone mode of Pure was pretty boring due to tracks with no real interests.
Zone pulse simply rocks ( unlimited speed , tracks coming from the original game , 16 tracks !! ) and could be my beloved mode if i can't find good condition to play online ( with trusty WZ people who doesn't quit tourney in the middle and 2nd condition : no lag )

[Neverdown]

Zone is great yes, I hope those new tracks soon to be available for download, will have a great zone mode too. Zen FTW

[Sausehuhn]

One more thing I find a bit annoying in Pulse, especially because it's such a fast game:
The animation when you've picked up a weapon/item. It's not the animation itself, it's the time the animation takes till it really shows you the weapon.

When you're racing and you're in a fight or you need energy, you directly have to know which weapon/item you've picked up to make a fast decision. But to decide you need to know which weapon/item you've picked up and it needs too much time till you know it (even though it's already just a short moment) because of the animation.
I would get rid of the animation completely. No popping in, no drop-down, nothing. You fly over the pad and you can directly see what you've picked up. Just like in all WOs before Pure.

It's really an important element where functionality is over eye-candy.


Yes, Colin, that's a hint for WOHD ;)

[Lusshan]

I couldn't agree more...

An other thing i hate is the eliminator mode:bomb. At first I thought it was great and fun to play between the races in the grid, but in the higher speed classes, particularly phantom, it's just ridiculous. I doesn't feel like a test of skill, but test of how many quakes and repulsors you can get. Luck plays a big role, as you must hit ships with low shields. If they have much energy left when you are just softening them for the opposition, so theoretically you can hit with every weapon from every pad without getting a single kill.

I think it would have been better if they removed the superweapons and lowered the energy, so that when you hit someone, they die. That would, in my opinion, make the mode dependant on skill, and therefore more fun.

[Rapier Racer]

Eliminator mode? Uh, clearly it's not advertised as a mode that requires serious skill for a reason, on the other hand you do need some skill, the theoretical possibility you put fourth for an apparent lack of killing would be the result of the player in question NOT playing the mode correctly. Think a little more tactically, for example fall to the back of the pack when you pick up a quake, don't just fire off a good weapon as soon as you pick it up wait for the AI ships to fight each other then move in to finish them off and obviously ships get a little energy back after crossing the line each time so maybe wait a little before attacking them too. You can end up destroying ships with a missile, I mean any ship not just the ones with weaker shielding.


I think it would have been better if they removed the superweapons and lowered the energy, so that when you hit someone, they die. That would, in my opinion, make the mode dependant on skill, and therefore more fun.

What you mean one hit kills? Oh yes how very skillful.

[zargz]

online games.

if I'm the last in a game coz everybody else has quit don't give me a DC! :bomb
I got 25 DCs now and for sure 20 I got this way ..

should be an easy fix with an

if

then

statment

[Dogg Thang]

Which all goes to prove that BASIC could solve everything.

[orgy]

online games.

if I'm the last in a game coz everybody else has quit don't give me a DC! :bomb
I got 25 DCs now and for sure 20 I got this way ..



didn't anyone say in here that you can wait 15 more seconds for the game to quit automatically and then it wouldnt count as a DC. on the left bottom of the screen you can see a clock counting backwards, if that time as passed it shouldnt be a DC anymore, dunno if it works though.

[zargz]

Exactly I thought it worked but it doesn't seem that way .. :?

aaargh! 27 DCs now..
ok, I'll try to remember that nr and check after but i almost 100% it doesn't work ..

anyone knows for sure?

coz I think there's a delay you can wait for the counter then you check and you don't have a DC
but after a few games it is there.

[BARTgai]

ya, im getting dc's for no reason as well. heck, i got 6 in the first hour online..

[zargz]

i always wait the 40sec after a SR or tour. just in case ;)

[RingoSpoon]

I cant think of 10 - only 5....

1. Screen Tearing

Especially evident on Phantom Moa Therma using in-cockpit view.

2. Loading Times

Load times are so bad people are turning the music off. Why oh why do you insist on not allowing us to run the game from the Memory Stick, its crazy.

3. Corrupted Custom Skins on Ghosts.

4. Freezing

5. Cant upload without Wi-fi

[phl0w]

Why oh why do you insist on not allowing us to run the game from the Memory Stick, its crazy.
Maybe they are afraid people would cheat online :p

I waited and played the game a lot, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions or make mountains out of molehills but there are a few things that may break the game in the long run, for me at least.

1. Unacceptable framerate. Makes my eyes bleed and single races unplayable, due to the fact the airbrakes' effect seems to be calculated via frames, like BRs, which makes its usage too random in heavy traffic with heavy ships. I don't know what you guys are playing to say it's super smooth, definitely not Pulse...

2. Excessive loading times compared with completely annoying loading screens can't be beneficial for a game that has always been about style. Who's idea was this, I wonder...

3. Freezing. Although it's got nothing to do with how the game plays, it results in my not switching the game back on and doesn't really cast a positive light on a 40€ product.

4. Wi-Fi only updating. Admittedly not game breaking but annoys the hell out of me when I set a new record but can't upload it.

5. BRs are still in it. This made Pure uninteresting after a while. Having a good run get topped by one where could squeeze in another BR because you were "awarded" some airtime by not sticking to the racing line and bounce off a ledge or something is just ridiculous. Maybe it's just me, but racing WO2097 and 3 I always had that feeling that I could reach my limits over and over again, always clocking a few hundreths or mere tenths around my best time. Pure and Pulse totally ruined that feeling since a BR often made good runs seem random and not reproducible, leaving me asking where one could pull off another one of those BRs.

So, that concludes my 5 reasons. There're little things, obviously, no game is perfect but the mentioned 5 hinder the game from being up there with 2097 and 3.

[FutureKubik]

While I definitely rate Wipeout Pulse highly, thus far (18 out of 24 tracks unlocked) I am enjoying it more than Pure, there are however some niggles that I find are hampering my enjoyment. Some just plain frustrate me to the point of not wanting to play anymore until after I've calmed down later on in the day.

1.The load times. Probably an understandably unavoidable result of higher quality graphics and/or MP3 music loading (some of my custom tracks are 20MB in size), it still reduces the amount of time I spend playing during a session with the game. I'm more likely to switch off after three or four tracks/attempts than feel compelled to ace that speed lap/time trial NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TAKES, just because of the amount of waiting in between. I lose a lot of my 'focus' or 'mental momentum' on a track/challenge as all it takes is those crucial extra seconds of waiting for me to zone out and think about something else. If/when they release a digital download version, you should be able to restart a race as quickly/instantly as in Wip3out.

2. The recurring 'advice' messages during loading. I think they should only come up if you're loading a Venom event, as that's more likely to be being played by a rookie or beginner, who'll appreciate the tips. I hate being told 'do you know about boost pads?' on my Nth attempt at any event, especially if I'm on Rapier or Phantom. Perhaps a more refined system could be used on Wipeout HD, whereby it can offer you specific advice about the ship you're using/the track you're about to race on (like the best way to tackle a particular corner), or even a combo of advice depending upon what ship/event/track. The way it is now is unintentionally patronizing after several hours of play, especially as you're viewing the load screens more often this time.

3. Some narrowly missed opportunities for greatness in Photo Mode. Looking at some of the pictures already posted here, I am aware that some truly spectacular shots can be captured using Photo Mode. However, I am disappointed at the control we're given over the camera positioning. Several times now, I've gone into Photo Mode, moved the camera around, noticed that what I'm looking at would make an awesome shot - but only if I could only zoom out/in a bit further, something which is only allowed in the track-side view which is of course, a fixed position camera. I would have loved it if we had more freedom over the camera positioning, a simple combination of the camera movement ability and the zoom in/out function would have done the trick. I'm interested in why it wasn't done this way actually...I'd have thought that was the ideal format for a Photo Mode.

4. The 30 track limit on your own MP3s. I have a 2GB stick...that means I can store thousands of tracks. I would have loved if everyone of those tracks were available if I transferred them all to the WIPEOUT folder. I realize this cap on imported tracks could be down to reducing loading times though.

5. The tracks lack some of the 'pizaz' and identity of tracks from earlier games. Many tend to feel/look the exact same, full of neon signs and metal-gray tunnels. I was underwhelmed by Basilico and Platinum Rush, especially the latter. I wanted it to be better than Wip3out's P-Mar Project, but it felt much too claustrophobic and is over before it begins.
Perhaps a more intimate appreciation of the individual quirks on each track will come with time, but for now I'm failing to warm to a lot of them. On the flip side however, it means any tracks that do display a greater attempt at individuality (such as the 180 corner and end of track launch on The Amphiseum White, the 90 degree half-track mag-strip on De Kostrukt, the unbarriered corner on Arc Prime White that gives the impressive moonlit vista over the city and the downwards drop in Metropia Black) are all the more relished, but they're just small sections of brilliance within otherwise perfunctorily designed tracks. I also miss track splits/division - they were in many of the tracks from Wip3out, and I missed their inclusion in Pure and I'm missing them the more in Pulse.


6. Track length. Most are far too short. I understand that the game is for a hand-held system and the onus is on playing for brief spurts whilst on the train/bus or sitting on the toilet, I can't help but feel it may be to do with the fact that they had to be designed with black/white runs in mind, and thus had to be cropped for an easier design process. It lessens the effect of the fact there's 24 tracks instead of 8.

7. A few things about the mag-strips. I can see straight away that the designers wanted to avoid making some of the same mistakes as Fusion, but it feels like as a result they've been too timid with their implementation. Most of the time they're just used on the undulating straight sections. I would have preferred if there was a more tactical element to them, like the part in De Konstrukt Black where a division in the track means taking a left keeps you on the lower level, where just moving slightly to the right (where there is no mag-strip) launches you up onto a higher tier. Scattering small patches of normal, non-mag strip surface on the sideways/upside down sections on a track for when playing Eliminator, could possibly have added more to the mode. Another thing that bothers me is that despite there being glass/see through sections of track, they're all on the flat sections. It reduces the impact of flying sideways/upside down on a mag-strip if all you can see is dark blue beneath you. How much better/more vertigo inducing it could have been had you been able to see through the mag-strips the same way. It could have definitely improved on the 'track individuality' angle if the player was more acutely aware of which way up their ship is.

8. Classic tracks. Less of a 'hate', more of a concern. Will we be getting them this time? Is it really too much to ask for incarnations of past tracks this time or was that something only considered for Pure, because it had been such a long time between games at that point, so is it 'too soon' to be getting shiny VR versions of Sol 2 or Ubermall?

9. Prospective downloadable content. Again, more a concern than a dissatisfaction, but I am a bit concerned about the fact that for now, it looks as if only 4 packs are planned. I probably just need reassuring that the content within each pack is going to be worthwhile (especially if we're to be paying for them this time (or not, I dunno if we are)), and not just 1 new track + 1 new ship per pack.

10. The menu design. This time it's not skin-able as far as I can tell, and it's all a bit glib and depressing. Nothing exciting about them. Were Designer's Republic involved this time or not? Looking at this game's menus leads me to presume that they were not.

11. The game's intro. No where near as rousing as Pure's or as cool as Wip3out's. It almost feels like an afterthought.

12. No concept art for when you get a gold! I really used to love finishing challenges on Pure to acquire them. These, for me, were the real reward. I sorely miss them in Pulse, as I'm convinced that there was just as much, if not more fascinating artwork produced during development of Pulse.

Now despite all these gripes, I ****ing love Wipeout Pulse. As with everyone else, I only post these ingratitudes so that they may help with further refinement of the formula for future games in the series.

[G'Kyl]

11. The game's intro. No where near as rousing as Pure's or as cool as Wip3out's. It almost feels like an afterthought.

Objection. ;) I do agree, the intro is _far_ less _remarkable_ than Pure's, which I consider the best WO intro ever, but it's still stylish as hell and sort of throws you right into the action. It looks great, it sounds great - take away "Welcome to WipEout Pulse" and it's actually one of my favourites from the series. Whereas I should add I never thought WO intros to stand out in a remarkable way from other racing games' intros - with the exception of W3O.

Ben

[Hacker X]

First off, I want to say GREAT JOB on Pulse Studio Liverpool. I think its an amazing game and in my opinion the best Wipeout game to date. I own all the original releases of Wipeout 1-Pulse and this is definately a dream come true for Wipeout fans. BTW, I'm in the US and imported just so I could play early, but will also purchase a US copy when its released, just to play through again. Thats how much of a WO fan I am.

As for compliments, and complaints, I only have 2 main complaints:

1. Intro music is terrible for a Wipeout game, especially after Wipeout PURE's extremely cool intro music. PULSE's intro music makes the game theme seem kind of corny. Its too high-pitched in my opinion, and as an electronic music fan and producer, I think there are so many more better selections that could have fit it better.

2. Hard AI is just too crazy with the weapons still. Its bad enough when playing a single track to try to get the gold, but when you play a tournament, its a flip of the coin sometimes of what spot you'll place in. Not from your skill of racing, but from how much you get pummeled with missiles, shockwaves, bombs, and mines. This is the same issue I had in PURE and could really make the game frustrating due to you being defeated by random attacks rather than your own lack of skill.


Otherwise, FANTASTIC GAME! I can't stop playing it, and I really commend you guys on a job well done. I'll actually be purchasing a PS3 just to play Wipeout HD when its available. Keep up the good work, and keep me in mind for soundtrack work in the future. I've posted it before, but I'll post it again. Check out my myspace music site, and listen to my song "Anti-Gravity" which is actually a dedication to Wipeout. Also in my "Musical Influences" section on the side you will see a few Wipeout pics, as Wipeout is the game that started my love of electronic music.

http://www.myspace.com/dimenzionalshift

[Frances_Penfold]

Hey Lord_Khan, good to see you again-- glad your AUS import finally arrived :)


1. Screen Tearing
Especially evident on Phantom Moa Therma using in-cockpit view.


Heh, just noticed that last night for the first time-- quite jolting. I have only seen it on Moa Therma at phantom speeds, however.


1. Unacceptable framerate. Makes my eyes bleed and single races unplayable, due to the fact the airbrakes' effect seems to be calculated via frames, like BRs, which makes its usage too random in heavy traffic with heavy ships. I don't know what you guys are playing to say it's super smooth, definitely not Pulse...


Try turning off the music ALL THE WAY (i.e., both by turning music volume to 0% AND by manually selecting all of the tracks off)-- this helps a lot with load times and reducing UMD spinning, and improves the framerate to some degree, I think.

[RingoSpoon]

Are you serious? It improves the framerate???

I will need to check that out - shame im having to turn the music off as soon as I get a wipeout version with custom soundtrack.

[Frances_Penfold]

Well, I'm not completely sure-- there's no easy way to quantify the framerate. But the game feels somewhat "smoother" to me without music, and maybe easier to execute barrel rolls? It could just be my imagination.

There's no question, however, that it improves the load times and dramatically reduces UMD useage. Make sure you manually select OFF each song in the soundtrack-- don't just turn the music volume to 0%. Basically, you should only have the UMD drive running when you first load a track-- from then on, you shouldn't experience any UMD useage and you will find very fast re-load times if you re-start the race. This works in Wipeot Pure as well-- it even removes the damn sleep mode glitch!

You may also want to experiment with turning the HUD off, especially for time trials, where you don't really need it. I haven't decided if this has an effect on the game or not.

I'm hoping some of y'all will try this and see what you think-- curious to know if it's just my imagination :)

[Hacker X]

Hey Lord_Khan, good to see you again-- glad your AUS import finally arrived :)



Likewise man. Yeah, it was really cool that the game came on Christmas EVE! Talk about the best Christmas gift evar. lol.

I can't stop playing. Just got to Grid 5 last night (Hard difficulty only), and tearing up the tracks with my long time friends at Team Qirex. :)

BTW, I'm Lord_Khan on the Wipeout stats site, and playing online. I'm still learning the Pulse tracks, and developing my skills on them but will be ready to play some more in-depth online soon.

[zargz]

I used to love Tech de Ra .. not anymore.

too many BRs on the bridge. :?

If I want a skateboard game I'll buy one of them Tony Hawk's games.

[lunar]

yes this ramp-jumping part reminds me of a certain snowboarding game where "you gotta trick to boost." Overall Pulse handling is brilliant and BRs are not always excessive, but in places it`s going to be "Wipeout: Tricky"

[rdmx]

"Frontside 180 Iffy Stiffy to Late Experimental Air!"
Haha I used to love SSX.:)

[Mad-Ice]

To rock around to rock around it's tricky, it's tricky, tricky tricky tricky!!!

Your boost is full, use it!!! :rock

[Lance]

"Frontside 180 Iffy Stiffy to Late Experimental Air!"
Haha I used to love SSX.:)

LOL
Yeah, back 540 in the half-pipe then grind down the railing of the library steps.

[Frances_Penfold]

You guys are hilarious :lol

What I want to know is how deliberately SL put these little grinding opportunities in some of the tracks-- it must have been on purpose, right?

[mdhay]

yes this ramp-jumping part reminds me of a certain snowboarding game where "you gotta trick to boost."...

Wasn't that Airblade?

I hate pulse because:

Not enough to race campaign. I have completed Phantom Grid 4 yesterday, after 9 days of owning it.
OutPost 7: I just hate it.
No zoom on most photo mode angles.
No cockpit lines.
Too - weapons friendly on eliminator.
Not enough tracks.

[Rapier Racer]

I don't think the 'average' gamer will be completing it in 9 days though.

[zargz]

Not enough to race campaign. I have completed Phantom Grid 4 yesterday, after 9 days of owning it.speek for yourself. rapier is owning me atm ..


Not enough tracks.disagree on that too. wo1, 2 and 3 all had not more than 8 tracks each! :nod

the rest - agreed.

but still .. I don't hate pulse, au contraire - I Luv pulse! :D

[mdhay]

@Rapier Racer: I'm not average, I'm an addict!

@zargz, when I say that there isn't enough tracks, I mean that there may be black and white runs, but they are just the same apart from they are opposite and they have two or three changes. I'm still happy with it like that, but I feel like something's missing.

[HISHO[JP]]

From Japanese deep "wipers"
213
Some translated word may be wrong...sorry

Hard << Medium ...?

Hard AI should use weapons more than current for the heated race.


Another one is "Plasma is not 1-hit killer".
Is Plasma not 1-hit killer even Eliminator mode too?

[Hellfire_WZ]

The plasma bolt hasn't been one hit kill since Wipeout 3, it's just an extreme damage dealer now. I'll have to check Medium and Hard at Phantom class, but from what I've seen earlier in the game, Hard is definitely harder :)

[Dogg Thang]

It really couldn't be a one hit kill in the hands of the AI. It would be ridiculously frustrating. As it is, in combination with something else, it can still be lethal.

[zargz]

The plasma bolt hasn't been one hit kill since Wipeout 32097/XL! http://geocities.com/zargz/leenden/old.gif

[phl0w]

No, he's right, he said "hasn't been since...", so he's refering to Fusion, Pure and Pulse not featuring an instant kill Plasma.


how deliberately SL put these little grinding opportunities in some of the tracks-- it must have been on purpose, right?I think they built those little ramps to make things a bit easier for newcomers. While a solid wall would be better to prevent those stupid grinds, it would also stop you dead if you lost your line. The little ramps (and there's lots of them throughout the tracks) on the other hand give you a second chance: React fast enough, win back control over your ship and you won't lose too much time in a race. Also the average gamer would never think of riding those walls for additional BR opportunities, it's way too risky. Unfortunately though, SL should've thought more about the better gamers practicing hard to make the very best out of such "unlucky" track designs, i.e. exploit the game wherever possible. It's just another aspect of Pulse's trying to cater to casual gamers. :brickwall

[MarcoM]

I know I am gonna be slaughtered for this, but anyway.

I hate the Rapier and Phantom speed class. They are just too fast for me. I am not much of an online player. But even the sparsly Rapier races in the first eight grids bugger me.

BTW I get 6 hours of gameplay with my psp slim and light and a phat 2200 mAh battery. That is a cool thing.:hyper

[ZenDJiNN]

MarcoM - I totally understand what you mean about the Speed Classes.... i find Rapier "Just about" doable, and only on certain tracks, and i've only tried Phantom once and whilst it was fun, it's not something that i aspire to.... yet! :)

Having said that, i am finding that the more i play, the better i get & the easier the faster classes become. I personally like the slower classes though because i get to see more of the fantastic track design & all the detail in the surroundings etc.... something you don't really have a chance to take in when you're flying along at a Zillion Miles per hour! :dizzy

[KANDANG]

play more zone and phantom will seem slow

:mr-t

[Asayyeah]

i'll second you on that, Yee Seng
:p

[kekken3]

Haha, that's exactly what happened to me. I've made a nice custom grid for Zone with all white/black zone tracks that have the objectives:

Gold: reach zone 35
Silver reach zone 30
Bronze: reach zone 25

to try and eventually reach Zen on every track. 8)

After a few gold medals, going back to Phantom seemed like racing in Flash. :hyper

....
To stay on topic. Maybe it was already mentioned and discussed, seeing as we're on page 19. But I'm really sad about the bombs not staying on the track forever. It added sooo much to local races with fewer persons. I'll never forget the legendary "offers one cannot refuse" when placing bombs on the Anulpha Pass shortcut. What quake.. a bomb was often the sweetest and meanest thing one could get racing in last place in Pure. It allowed for dramatic changes of lead and gave people in the rear a big say in the result.
Why oh why do bombs explode by themselves now. :(
Hope there'll be a way to fix it and other little annoying tidbits in the future.. maybe. :?

edit: god, I really do mix the words "bomb" and "mine" in wipeout. I always meant bombs. Corrected.
edit 2: out of respect to the authors, I apologize for only having posted about negative aspects of the new title as of now. It's that when one grows up with Wipeouts, he starts to take the ever present anti-grav awesomeness of the series for granted and only notices flaws. Pulse is still a brilliant!!1 http://pretep.konzole-slovenija.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_car.gif

[HISHO[JP]]

AI does not use "barrel roll".

Barrel roll is one of important technics since Pure.
So I think high level AI (Hard and Head-to-Head) should use it if shield energy is enough.

AI does not use "rocket start".

They starts faster than player in high level, but no turbo SE and turbo effects(*1).
So AI does not use rocket start, it's only "faster start than player".

Zone mode graphics

I like Pure's zone graphics better than pulse's...

There's no "AI Eliminator". I wanna see AIs fight which is harder than "AI Race".


It really couldn't be a one hit kill in the hands of the AI. It would be ridiculously frustrating. As it is, in combination with something else, it can still be lethal.
But AI always absorbs weapons to recover energy if they took heavy damages.
So I can't destroy them! :brickwall

(*1):"turbo effects" means "Two new thrust trails appear to the right and left of the main trail behind ship when a Boost powerup or pad is utilised"

[zargz]

as you know I think that BRs suck in general but yes, I agree
it's lame that AI don't use them same as quake, plasma, energy wall and cloack in wo2 and 3.

In that aspect (the AI using same weapons as you) wo1 is still The Best!

talking about weapons, I'm glad repulsor and shuruken were left only for eliminator.
especially shuruken! what's a ninja weapon doing in a race game?
and what's it with it going through your ship and going on to damage other ships?
we got the quake for that and you can bounce the missiles of the wall that way too.
imo if a weapon hits you then it's used, shouldn't go on to hurt other ships.

repulsor is ok I think but the blast radius should be much smaller
like the width of the track and a couple of ship-lengths forth and back.

imo :)

[the_Admiral]

I'm really enjoying Pulse at the moment and it certainly makes commuting on the train fly by. :o

Anyway, not sure if it has been mentioned before, but I think I've found a minor audio/programming bug in the Eliminator Mode. So far all of the Eliminators I've played require you to reach 10 kills to win. However, I've noticed that when the total kills of all the ships reaches 7 then the anouncer says something like '3 kills remaining'. I presume this should occur when your own kill number reaches 7, which it currently doesn't.

Has anyone else noticed this? I definitely remember this happening on 2 occasions. Certainly not as annoying as the BR bug that is present in the game.

Also does anyone know whether PSP games can be patched by the downloadable packs coming out, or by a stand alone patch? Have any other PSP games in the past have received patches? The PS3 obviously allows this, but is a more locked down environment, and I guess PSP patches could create more issues where by hackers could exploit them and ruin online gaming further?

[ZenDJiNN]

Hi Admiral, welcome to WipeoutZone. :)

I've noticed the thing in Eliminator mode that you mentioned. Quite a few times, even early on in the Eliminator race, it will say "3 kills remaining" when there's obviously more.

I think this "bug" has been observed by a few people now, and not sure if it's something that's patchable or not, but this is definitely a good place to find out. :g

[Frances_Penfold]

I'm really sad about the bombs not staying on the track forever. It added sooo much to local races with fewer persons. I'll never forget the legendary "offers one cannot refuse" when placing bombs on the Anulpha Pass shortcut. What quake.. a bomb was often the sweetest and meanest thing one could get racing in last place in Pure. It allowed for dramatic changes of lead and gave people in the rear a big say in the result.
Why oh why do bombs explode by themselves now. :(


I agree with this. The limited-duration bombs shifts the balance of power that much more to the current leader-- who in Pulse can quickly become unstoppable once he/she is 3-4 seconds ahead.

Perhaps SL concluded that tracks become too littered with bombs and mines if there isn't a clear time duration assigned to these. That would make sense. But I am curious to know the effect of making the duration somewhat longer, e.g., long enough for a last place racer to create bombs that would affect the next lap for the first place racer.

[Dogg Thang]

It does seem like there needs to be some sort of equaliser for those at the end of the pack. Anyone who gets an early lead has a serious advantage in Pulse. The bomb timing is just part of that.

[ZenDJiNN]

Agree with you there Dogg, re: the early lead thing. Once someone has a good (3-4 Secs) lead, it's very hard to catch up. Add to that the squabbles among the rear of the pack where weapons are flying all over the place and you just can't get out of it (Unless you're lucky enough to pick up plenty of boosts). :)

What makes this even more annoying is the seemingly "Random" grid positioning at each race start. There doesn't seem to be ANY logic in it whatsoever as far as i can make out.

Having said that, i still absolutely LOVE Pulse, and Pure, and play both as much as i can. :g

[Typhy]

In terms of having some sort of "equaliser", or handicap for players at the back of the pack, I think it'll become very frustrating for good players.
I used to play Ridge Racer, which had that very option (defined by a 1-3 star rating) and found it was very unrewarding for those players that had put hours into learning how to play the game better than the next guy.


What makes this even more annoying is the seemingly "Random" grid positioning at each race start. There doesn't seem to be ANY logic in it whatsoever as far as i can make out.

I entirely agree. It would make sense, in a tournament, if the leading players would start at the back of the grid (this would, in my view, pose a fair challenge to all players) but I suppose if it's random there can be no complaints.

Typhy

P.S. I know the issue with having to wait 50secs before the next track loads has been said many times before, but I actually don't mind it - seems a perfect opportunity to go a make a nice cup'a before the next race.

[Frances_Penfold]

As a longtime Mario Kart player, it's somewhat disorienting to be playing a game that so seriously favors the leader-- Mario Kart is obviously built on the opposite premise, that the leader needs to work hard to stay there. That said, skilled karters can easily whip inexperienced racers-- the handicapping system just makes things a bit more interesting in races amongst advanced players. For example, sometimes it is worth dropping to second place in a race to pick up the better items (shrooms and red shells). And certainly, the leading karter has a big old target on them for the blue shells ;) It's so sweet to pull of a blue-shell dodge with a perfectly time mini turbo 8)

Not saying that Wipeout needs to adopt this sort of gaming mechanic-- it's never (I don't think) been part of the franchise. But it really does play differently, with the first 10-20 seconds of a race being CRITICAL for determining the lead. Not of course that there isn't a lot of skill involved in obtaining and maintaining the lead...

P.S. I actually agree with Typhy, most of the time the 50 second delay doesn't bother me-- I get up, clean up the living room, lift some weights, run dishes to the kitchen, take a leak... it's surprisingly useful!

[Dogg Thang]

Well I'm not a great player by any means and frequently get my ass handed to me online. But there have been a few times I got an early lead and just breezed through the race not knowing what happened to the competition. And that's not exactly satisfying either. I'm sure those people who get an early lead would like a bit of competition.

It's really not about the racing, but the weapons. And, as the weapons have created the problem, I reckon the solution lies there too. Mario Kart (though I find the blue shells awfully cheap) is a good example of helping people at the back by giving them better weapons. That could be applied to WO in some way.

That or simply do what the racers want - really pull back massively on the weapons throughout the game.

[Frances_Penfold]

I think the reason that Nintendo created the Blue Shell is because there is, otherwise, no way to target the leader once he/she has attained a noteable lead-- red shells tend to peter out over a intermediate distances. The forward-pointed weapons in Wipeout behave the same way-- they really don't reach that far, so you can only impact a lead racer that is beating the competition by a second or two.

NOT that I am suggesting that a "Blue Shell" would be appropriate for Wipeout-- I just have a new understanding for the race design in Mario Kart having played online matches in a game that doesn't help the back players. It's really a different experience :)

[zargz]

Perhaps SL concluded that tracks become too littered with bombs and mines if there isn't a clear time duration assigned to these.I think so and I totally agree with that. racing through a junkyard of bombs in pure is not fun.
Even from the last place .. Especially from the last place :D


But I am curious to know the effect of making the duration somewhat longer, e.g., long enough for a last place racer to create bombs that would affect the next lap for the first place racer.a couple of times I catched a bomb from the last guy .. I'm guessing the selfdistruct timer is set to about 8 sec?


It does seem like there needs to be some sort of equaliser for those at the end of the pack. Anyone who gets an early lead has a serious advantage in Pulse. The bomb timing is just part of that. when somebody wins really badly over me on a normal race and does so repeatedly
and I feel it was the weapons, not only bombs and mines that stop you
but also boost and AP that help you (him/her) forward
you know, sometimes you feel you only got shite pickups
then I start a No Weapons race to see if it really was the weapons :eek
That's equalising enough for me ;)



P.S. I know the issue with having to wait 50secs before the next track loads has been said many times before, but I actually don't mind it - seems a perfect opportunity to go a make a nice cup'a before the next race.yeh, and after several cops of tea it's time enough for taking a leak! :D

[Medusa]

Well I haven't even finished the game but here's the things I hate about Pulse:

1. Barrel rolls are still polluting the game and it feels like a lot of the magstrips are just there to prevent so many BRs. Hence I dislike the fact there are so many magstrips.
2. In eliminator mode, eliminations are called "Kills". This really pisses me off because one of the great cornerstones of the supposed Anti-gravity racing philosophy always seemed to be its "peaceful" message hovering around in the background (until Fusion, gag.). Despite quakes missiles bombs, blah blah blah, there were always these nicey-nice sayings in the background ("Let's be friends!" even PIRANHA said "Feed me" not "I bite", lol). Maybe I just read way too much into these things. It just really irritates me that war talk has pervaded wipeout. Kills. Come on. Give me a break. If the announcer can say "Contender eliminated" instead of "Kill" during a race, the announcer can say "Contender eliminated. 7 eliminations remaining" during Eliminator mode.
3. The "Welcome to Wipeout Pulse" at the end of the intro and all of the speech during the track intros. It just feels wrong to have that much speech in a wipeout game to me.

But that's it! Only 3 things I hate! Amazingly well done!

There's just one minor dislike I have to mention: the name "Leech Beam". Just sounds disgusting. If anyone has ever had any experience with real leeches they'll understand why I really wish it just could have left as the "Energy Drain". Ewwww....

[lunar]

Intriguing..... do tell us about the leeches sometime.

I see your point about "kills", but I don`t think Halo culture has got too much of a hold on Wipeout yet. There really isn`t anything I hate about Pulse. It`s better than Pure in the BR-aspect, but there are still too many. But I quite like the way the mag strips reduce the number of them. The only things I hate are the cheaters, the bug in race times and the inconsistencies in comparing times on wipeout-game, and these things are all not completely about the game itself.

[Roadster]

I'm a bit of a Wipeout noob, but I loved Pure so this was always going to be a definite purchase. There are just a few niggles, though:

1. I'm still not sure about the idea of having Black and White runs, it makes each of the tracks lose their individuality a bit. In fact, I would much rather that SL had just concentrated on twelve tracks, picking only the best version of each track. Especially since we'll be getting more tracks through downloads anyway.

2. The Race Campaign is a good idea, but it could have been implemented better. Forcing players to play in modes they may not like, in order to unlock more events, is not good game design in my opinion. Even worse is the way the speed classes have been spread out - I'm only on Grid 7, but I hate having to play a Venom event after, for example, just completing a race on Rapier. Each grid should have stuck to a single speed class, obviously increasing as you go further into the campaign.

3. Choosing the difficulty of AI. I understand this is to help novice players, but it means that almost all of the single race gold medals will be ridiculously easy to get (on Easy). It would have been better if there was a system where you get more points by completing a race on Hard, which gives you more of an incentive as it allows you to unlock more grids (and tracks) quicker.

4. The bugs and glitches. Hasn't been a major issue for me, admittedly (I've had that HUD glitch once, and the game's crashed on me a couple of times), but still, Pure had a few of these too and I'm disappointed that the sequel isn't more polished like I expected it to be.

5. The menu is nowhere near as slick as the one in Pure. In fact, it's all a bit bland and generic now, and there's really no need for scrolling statistics and useless tips on the loading screen - reminds me of EA games. Having said that, it does function pretty much perfectly, and the reference manual was a great inclusion.

6. Photo mode is not as flexible as it could have been. You should be able to move the camera and zoom in/out on all the view modes. not just one or two.

7. Um... the voice on the intros is annoying.

Really struggling to think of anything else. Frame rate is not an issue when playing in 333mhz, it's mostly smooth as silk then, and loading times have also been improved. It's a superb game, they seem to have thought of pretty much everything for the sequel.

[infoxicated]

3. Choosing the difficulty of AI. I understand this is to help novice players, but it means that almost all of the single race gold medals will be ridiculously easy to get (on Easy). It would have been better if there was a system where you get more points by completing a race on Hard, which gives you more of an incentive as it allows you to unlock more grids (and tracks) quicker.
But you do get more Team Allegiance points if you complete events on Hard, so there is sort of an incentive to make it more of a challenge. :)

[Roadster]

Yeah, that is true. You only get slightly more though, right? I stick to Hard, anyway, it's more of a challenge (and more satisfying) that way.

Also, I've noticed that the loyalty points bar is pretty big. What else is there to unlock, apart from alternative ship skins?

[omega329]

//Roadster:
you'll see when you get to 100,000...

only really two bad things,

1) The "welcome to wipeout pulse" at the end of the intro, I HATE this, more than outpost 7 on phantom, more than getting out of bed on a Monday, more than... well wipeout fusion, and thats saying something! I think it spoils the whole intro and kinda takes away from the cool, slick, speedy racer that wipeout pulse is.

2) the dissapearing letters and digits on the HUD, i can live with the other glitches but this one really affects my racing style, I drive/fly differently when in first place than compared to last. Its a bit annoying coming across another ship when all you have is a autopilot.

[Au_Xtr3me]

My only big problem with Pulse, is that Zone mode looks like someone got carried away with bloom effects, making it impossible to read the HUD, and see some parts of the track.

[Asayyeah]

making it impossible to read the HUD.
:lol

There's other modes where you can 'read' the HUD & being more comfortable with the speed.
Seriously speaking : test no HUD for zone and you ll get there eventually ;)

[Au_Xtr3me]

Does that work for you?

When I tried I got frustrated at not knowing how much shield, what zone etc.

I should give it a shot.

(PS a fair bit off topic, but how do you redeem bad reputation? as you can see mine isn't top of the morning)

[Sausehuhn]

If you can't see the HUD you may do even better times because you're only focusing on the race, not on the HUD. In Zone mode you will lose your energy sooner or later anyway - knowing how much energy is left won't give you more of it, eh? At least in Zone mode the HUD distracts you from the race.

Well, that is my experience :)

[Asayyeah]

Spot on 100% Max :nod

[mdhay]

Don't kill me, but online. I just can't stand it.Not because of the cheaters, but because WipEout is just one of those games that doesn't work online - much like Metal Gear.

Don't get me wrong, I (kind of) like it, but I don't see handheld games working online. PS3, yeah, but I am just mad about online games. I guess I'm lucky enough to have Single Player, unlike Warhawk.

[Dogg Thang]

Wow, that's a fairly sweeping notion. You don't see handheld games working online? I can't see why not. Pulse works online just fine. Animal Crossing worked online. Mario Kart worked online except for the poxy snaking. Metroid Prime Hunters worked online. Each had their quirks but no more than any big console online game.

[sakerbax]

things i hate about pulse are:

too much waiting time between online races
no replays (photo mode of ai driving seems pointless)

but the one that really really bugs me is
having to reload the entire map to restart a race,, cmon wasn't there a way to reset the positions without dumping all the loaded map data and having to make us wait for loading again?

on time trials it's something that makes me take a break way sooner than i would on another game..

[Frances_Penfold]

My experience is that load times and UMD use are reduced, for both Wipeout Pure and Wipeout Pulse, if you turn off the music-- check off every song in the list and turn the music volume to 0% :)


Don't kill me, but online. I just can't stand it.Not because of the cheaters, but because WipEout is just one of those games that doesn't work online - much like Metal Gear.

Don't get me wrong, I (kind of) like it, but I don't see handheld games working online. PS3, yeah, but I am just mad about online games. I guess I'm lucky enough to have Single Player, unlike Warhawk.

Wow, sorry to hear that-- perhaps if Wipeout Pulse was online ONLY it would be a problem, but for me, it's a perfect system-- an online enabled futuristic racer that I can play almost anywhere, with minimal hassles (no need to mess with Kai, for example). I probably split my time about 60/40 between offline and online play anyway.

[Au_Xtr3me]

I posted this somewhere else; but one thing that was not so obviously missing that slightly deterred realism was...

The lack of SUPERSONIC flight. It would be especially cool if you break the sound barrier and can't hear any of the sound (except music). It would be even cooler if it did the cloud effect of breaking the sound barrier. AND everyone else behind hearing a sonic boom! :)

Of course if would be a short experience but it would be exhilarating.

Edit: speed of sound is approx. 1200kph

[sakerbax]

maybe in zen speed when u hit a thrust pad at full speed =)

[Asayyeah]

Please newcomers stay on-topic, your ideas could be developed elsewhere.



My experience is that load times and UMD use are reduced, for both Wipeout Pure and Wipeout Pulse, if you turn off the music-- check off every song in the list and turn the music volume to 0% :).
On zone mode one thing i find quite annoying is the mini screen-freezing when a new music track loads, especially when you reach high zones.
That's the reason why i am using your way, Frances, and no more freezing.

On a side note, before adopting this solution , i was racing Moa therma white to reach the 70's and found a DJ mix of strictly 12 min; i only selected it into the playlist : so every attempts i did , i was thinking : " stay alive till the end of the music : come' on :banzai " ( 12 min = 72 zones of 10 sec ).

Now i need a longer mix :p

[Dogg Thang]

After quite a lot of play, I have become completely certain that I really don't like (not going to use the word hate) that there are black and white runs of the same tracks.

It was a fear I had when this was announced - that I would find it hard to really learn the tracks to an instinctive stage because effectively two different tracks use the exact same landmarks. So on a white run, I see a landmark and my brain registers a turn. On the black run, if I see it and register the same turn, I'm now in the wall. It was said there would be some changes in the directions and, on a few tracks, there are but not many.

It didn't make a huge difference early on as I was just getting to know the tracks. But at this point, I should know many of them instinctively and this is where the different runs are causing a problem.

It affects some tracks more than others for whatever reason. Moa Therma, I know both black and white and I'm okay with them but then it's an easy track. De Konstruct looks identical throughout almost the entire race in both directions and I simply can't get to an instinctive stage with that one at all. I'm getting no consistency with it. Basilico White, I can get through on instinct. But Black takes three laps at least before I can settle my brain into accepting it's not the white run. And then if I go back to the White run, I can't do it.

On most of the runs, there seems to me to be a clear 'right way'. A stronger track.

I really don't need the game stretched out by giving me backwards runs. For me, it's just getting in the way, takes from the uniqueness of the tracks and causes problems at the later stages of learning the tracks. It's a feature I can very much do without.

[Au_Xtr3me]

Although I didn't really mind the black and white runs, I did feel increadibly disorientated flying them backwards :dizzy

For me its not something I hate or like, its just there, couldn't care less.

Perhaps if they redesigned the black runs, to have a completely new environment but the same track, you could actually boast 24 unique tracks, there wouldn't be disorientation, and you would think the game is bigger than it really is. ;)

[Dogg Thang]

Well that's one thing I thought when it was announced - if the black runs took place with completely different lighting, like a different time of day (like WO1) or even different season, it might create enough of a visual difference to completely seperate the runs in my mind.

[zargz]

give them more time, dogg. they'll grow on you (not literally!:D)

here's a tip - since pure almost the only land marks I pay attention to are the markings on the track :)

also when I learn new tracks I memorise them like this
basilico white - straight, easy right, S-es, long sweeping right, easy left, S-es, right, jump
left 90¤, straight(good for boost if you have it!), u-turn, easy left and back to start.

kinda like mcRae rally ;)

the black run here is totally different from the white with the added magstrip
and even in the track where nothing has been added I feel it's a different track.

just do some more speed laps on them - you'll come around!

the last thing you can lose is Hope 8)

[Medusa]

I missed one thing in my earlier post. I definitely HATE the number and amount of weapons in Pulse. It feels irritating to go over a weapon pad. I can picture the roulette wheel spinning mid-game from the 60-plus weapons...okay I'm exaggerating slightly.

On the same sort of thing, I have the AI set to medium and they are still totally suicidal - yesterday on a Rapier race there were FOUR quakes in a row - one immediately after the other - the announcer said "Quake, quake, quake, quake"!! I thought I was hearing an echo at first, but no, along came four successive quakes and subsequent AI eliminations. As if they wouldn't be hitting absorb after hearing the first two coming.
AI is sort of an oxymoron in this game.

[Sausehuhn]

Now i need a longer mix

Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net/) could make your music track almost endless ;)

[q_dmc12]

01.
Just Single Race and Tournament in Multiplayer mode. I really miss eliminator here. At least modes like Head-to-Head would have been possible because there are no weapons that may not target because of lag.


I have to second (third/fourth/whathaveyou) this, this is the one thing I am irate about - I hope it becomes available as downloaded content...one can only hope....:cold

At least for adhoc if nothing else...

[phl0w]

That's why I only race the White runs properly. I was never a big fan of producers' cheating content just by making tracks reversible. They could have at least change the time of day as someone mentioned, like they did in WO1.
There's not even one track where the Black run is actually better (maybe Amphi due to its White version's poor trying to recreate the Gare d'Europe jump, which feels a bit pathetic to me). Now go figure.

[infoxicated]

You make some stupid sweeping statements sometimes phl0w.

The amount of time and effort that went into working out environments and tracks where two unique varients could be achieved was far from cheating - it was an attempt to get as many tracks as possible into the game with the limited art and design resources.

Now you go figure. :rolleyes:

[phl0w]

They are supposed to be "sweeping", however, it's not my intention to generalise things. I only express my opinion and it is my opinion that reversible tracks are no valid content (afterall it's not a concern that only affects Pulse), at least not enough that allows one to boast about 24 tracks, no matter the "effort" put into them. There are many people out there and on these boards that crave those Black runs, but also many that could do without. I just don't like them, both reasons why mentioned in my previous post.
Besides, this is the "10 things I hate about Pulse" topic, right?

[infoxicated]

Yes. You're right, it is.

And you told us your dislike of the alternate tracks early in the first page of this thread, but here you are 22 pages later harping on about it. Now go figure.

[Frances_Penfold]

i was racing Moa therma white to reach the 70's and found a DJ mix of strictly 12 min; i only selected it into the playlist : so every attempts i did , i was thinking : " stay alive till the end of the music : come' on :banzai " ( 12 min = 72 zones of 10 sec ).

Now i need a longer mix :p

Heh, that's a really good idea. So is there a known limit to the length of an imported song? 'Cuz one could in principle make a montage of favorite Wipeout tunes that lasted 20 minutes or more and minimized loading...

I might try that this weekend :)

[rdmx]

It's simple with audacity! Just blend some songs together - instant long mix, circmventing the mp3 amount limit - only suitable for zone though.

[Asayyeah]

I used Audacity years ago to edit tracks and match them to my wipeout videos i uploaded. I am always using it also to record what i am listening through web radio ( mostly DI.fm ).
Very interesting free software ( thx sourceforge.net : don't forget to make them donations ;) )

[Colin Berry]

maybe Amphi due to its White version's poor trying to recreate the Gare d'Europe jump, which feels a bit pathetic to me.

Little known fact to share with WoZone
The Amphiseum was originally designed for Wipeout Pure, it was designed to be Sinucit, but we were never quite happy enough with it, so put it on the back burner and chose the track that ended up as Sinucit. We returned to it for the Pure downloads, but again we didnt get it how we wanted it so it stayed in the back ground. Come Pulse time we returned to it as priority and tweaked it, the tilted long straights and horse shoe bend were redone slightly and we actually cut a 'stepping stone' section out.

The jump has nothing to do with Gare d'Europa, its like saying Talons Junction is trying to recreate Karbonis' start grid because they both have a start grid :)

In hindsight I probably wouldnt have done Black and White versions for every environment, but many of them work really well for me. But then in hindsight I wouldnt have included Outpost 7 in the game, yet many people like it, which shows you cant ever please everyone, so all you can do is put effort in and trust your instinct.


Incidentally, blue ridge was also Sinucit at one stage, and sinucit started life as hrm.. maybe sebenco.... Karl might know

[phl0w]

Now that is an answer I appreciate (and one that makes me feel guilty to "sweep" over certain aspects of the game at times).
Thank you for the inside scoop!

[Chrono]

Well you got the Amphi right because I greatly enjoy both white and black versions.

[Sausehuhn]

Well, speaking about jumps: I have to say I kind of not like the way ships handle in air. It's like they're just stones dropping to the ground. The nose-up that follows is even more strange (of course that's just my opinion!). There is no bouce at all, actually it just feels like the Florion Height drop in Fusion and even though ships can leave the track and they're not glued to it, I often get the feeling people are overacting when they say the old WO-feeling is back.
To me it's more Fusion than 2097.

Maybe the old handling won't come back at any time, but I would like to see the boucing back at least a bit more.

I always had the feeling people bashed Fusion's handling too hard compared to the critism that they gave to Pure/Pulse, because it actually isn't too different.

[Dogg Thang]

Not sure people could have gone hard enough on Fusion but I see your point. I think Pure and Pulse were huge steps in the right direction and, personally, I feel that's worthy of recognising and celebrating. No, it's not 2097 and I've never really understood why we can't go back to more that handling.

When Fusion came out I remember devs on the boards talking about the difference in the engine and that, effectively, they couldn't do it on PS2. With Pure, Colin mentioned that they couldn't get away with the flaws like going through track elements (which is absolutely right though I thought that just making objects solid would end that) so they couldn't go back to that. With the energy barriers, not sure that would be an issue now but I imagine that would have required a complete start from scratch for Pulse and that probably wasn't an option production-wise.

Ultimately, yeah, I think many if not most Wipeout players want the real AG feeling back but I think both Pure and Pulse have got the series back on track and, personally, I'm really happy about that. Like, we can all pick holes all day but they're damn good games. In my little personal opinion of course... I guess I just wish my '10 things I love' thread got as much attention as the negative version...

[Sausehuhn]

Oh I didn't say Pure and Pulse are bad games! No, really not! I love the games, don't get me wrong. When I post comments that talk "bad" about the games I don't mean the entire game is bad. I also didn't say Pulse's handling is bad, I just wanted to say what could have been better. Than, on the other hand, you cannot please everyone.
I'm just saying my personal opinion and surely not everyone thinks the same about it. That must be a boring world if it was like that, hm? :)

[Colin Berry]

No, it's not 2097 and I've never really understood why we can't go back to more that handling.

...........(which is absolutely right though I thought that just making objects solid would end that) ...

The 2097 handling couldnt return even if we wanted it to because the code no longer exists :D Personally I love 2097 but I think its what it was then, and well, it is a hard handling model that would probably reduce the appeal and accessibility of the game somewhat and in turn means reduced interest and the series ends if it doesnt sell. I do continue to work on the handling though, but it needs ever balancing between old style and being accessible, coupled with my own feeling on what feels nice. I do think our Airbrakes have space to develop and improve into though, I have tried several times to replicate the airbrakes from 2097 with no joy yet :D Though the HD airbrakes being analog are lovely. I'm still tweaking the HD handling too - It is 'based' on the Pure / Pulse system but its tweaked for HD, not massively but its a little different, though subtley so. thing is I could spend months tweaking it but at some point you have to stop, so you can get on with making the rest of the game :D

I know for some people they see this as a dampening down of Wipeouts hardcore roots, but the truth is games have to sell, if they dont, the series ends. the early Wipeouts were well respected but did not sell in big numbers. These days the costs are higher and the games need to sell accordingly, which means making sure your game is accessible and appealing to a broad market not a niche market. The only team in sony that gets away with niche games as such is the ICO team, we have to sell. wipeout has to sell, if it doesnt it dies (as it is it is a niche of a niche - futuristic + racing games - there arent many because it is niche and risky - Wipeout wont ever sell 5million like Burnout / NFS double niche is tricky) . Thats why we can never make it for the hardcore only or even get too single minded - I'd like to make 'Colin Berrys Wipeout', but I cant, I have to bow and bend on certain things for the overall sake of the game and its appeal. Thats the reality for 99% of game developers to be honest. You want people to enjoy your game, you want it to sell and you never want to abandon the loyal fanbase but you want to expand it because you need the game to sell. Its a juggling act :D and the reality though some may disagree, is that the handling model is a contentious issue in Wipeout, for some Pure and Pulse are WAY too hard, for others they are too easy for some the handling model isnt what it once was and its 'too easy' for others the control of these things remains impossible.


We also cant make every object solid in a scene as it massively increases the poly count (each object has 'art' polys and separate collision polys) and also means too many calls are done to the collision system -- putting collision on everything in short means something else has to be sacrificed, probably visuals, ergo we came up with the cage system for Pulse, retain visuals but not allow the player outside of a 'cage' that we specify :D



hrm thats a lot of waffle

[Dogg Thang]

All fair enough. I would wonder though if, while aiming for appeal and accessibility, if raising the latter can reduce the former, like diluting a fine wine with beer won't nessesarily make for a more desirable drink.

Considering just how popular those early WO games were, I wonder what had them move from a must-have series to a niche title? I mean, some reviews called it a tired series which is just so unfair. Ridge Racer from the same time has had a ridiculous number of sequels, has recycled elements many times and has never been called tired. Same with many racers. So I'm not sure what happened to Wipeout in terms of perception. Given the amount of work you guys put in, that must really frustrate.

I think it should be a mainstream series.

Anyway, I love the game. I hope it does well so we get some more soon.

[Medusa]

for some Pure and Pulse are WAY too hard, for others they are too easy for some the handling model isnt what it once was and its 'too easy' for others the control of these things remains impossible.

Okay let me just say, that if the control of Pure and Pulse is too hard for people, then they shouldn't try to race "anti-gravity ships". I really suck at using a d-pad. I rarely use pitch control in Pure or Pulse. I find BRs easier to do than use pitch control. Yet, I can still play the games. Wipeout is the sort of game where it should be impossible to play without at least a small amount of pitch control on every track (unless you're on vector/venom of course).

It's too bad WipEout couldn't remain an incredibly demanding game with excellent control peripherals with each new iteration. Even so, quantity over quality is a difficult sell. That means as long as more copies sell, that's okay - but how many that buy it will love it? Will they just dump it as soon as they've beaten it? Time will tell, huh?

[phl0w]

I totally agree with you Medusa. I don't understand why games are getting easier and easier these days just so each and everyone can play them either. Well, I do know why (and I really didn't think I'd hear that from a producer of one of my most favourite videogames), I just don't understand the logic behind wanting to sell games instead of making a really good game. Let me elaborate what a "really good game" means in that context and don't kill me for calling Pulse not a good game. Sure, it's a bit unfair to let Pulse be the major impulse here, but the problem is there, with any videogame. The way I see it, a game is good when it requires effort (and by effort I don't mean learn the basic controls and keep your eyes open), when it can make you dedicate a good time of your life mastering it, when it offers a simple set of rules/ mechanics that allow for countless variations, when there's an inherent goal, theoretically achievable, practically unreachable (if, by playing, you get the feeling of walking down that road, a game can motivate). Pretty much the obvious stuff a human being demands from a game worth his while. Now, the problem is, that not a single videogame can offer what's demanded from "real" games and as long as they don't, they'll never acquire the much thought-after status most of the producers, and even more gamers want their "games". It's no coincidence that successful games like Chess and Go transcend shallow entertainment, just look at their mechanics and essence. Did they get sequels? The paradox is this: The industry lives from peoples' hunting after quick, effortless entertainment. Videogames' future, as I see it, strongly depends from producers straighten up and leading their products to head to a proper form of gaming, yet in doing so they run the risk of dooming their own work, because, you know, people don't want games, they're not going after rewards if it means effort and dedication, they're not willing to devote themselves to anything, they just want entertainment (partly to distract them from that very same problem), as passive and as little challenging as possible. The only challenge being their time invested. Added rewards for that provided by modern videogames. :brickwall

[Roadster]

That's a rather convoluted post there, Phl0w, but if all you're saying is that a videogame has to be immensely challenging in order for it to be any good, then... well, you're wrong.

[infoxicated]

...and in need of the odd line break. ;)

[NeXaR_QroN]

Well, I don't think he is wrong... completely. It should provide a challenge IF the player is up to it, but I agree with the game-should-be-accesible-to-all-in-order-to-sell point. The thing is to be able to provide that two options at the same time.

[DawnFireDragoon]

not sure about 10, but...

1. the red weapon warning icons (i got told this'll be optional in hd though)
2. white/black runs, i prefer entirely new environments
3. outpost 7, the skill cut gets in the way more than anything
4. mag strips in certain places, they're definitely over used in Pulse and i'm not sure if there's a place for them in wipeout.
5. i've said it many times, but the game has too much bright neon on nearly every track, for my taste anyway. i know others like this.
6. electronic voice over/track intro...pointless, never had them before and don't need them now.


thing is, i love the game, just a few things irritate me.

[Frances_Penfold]

I don't understand why games are getting easier and easier these days just so each and everyone can play them either... I just don't understand the logic behind wanting to sell games instead of making a really good game.

Videogames' future, as I see it, strongly depends from producers straighten up and leading their products to head to a proper form of gaming, yet in doing so they run the risk of dooming their own work, because, you know, people don't want games, they're not going after rewards if it means effort and dedication, they're not willing to devote themselves to anything, they just want entertainment

I'm sure that Rob and Colin can provide a much more nuanced interpretation... but my understanding is that the economics of modern video games is demanding higher level of sales, but that the traditional demographic target is getting smaller and harder to reach. There's a reason that Nintendo redoubled it's efforts to reach out to "new" gamers and casuals this generation.

I like my games to be intense and difficult... but as it is Wipeout is NOT particularly friendly to new gamers. I mean, goodness, you probably have to sink 50-100 hours of gameplay into Wipeout Pulse to really appreciate online multiplayer, and for a newcomer, the single player grid would be damn difficult. Very, very few gamers would regard Wipeout Pure and Pulse as "too easy."

So I dunno... I think Sony should do everything it can to increase the popularity of Wipeout as a franchise, while also trying to maintain the depth of the games as a service to the hardcore fans. I think that Wipeout Pulse is a good compromise in this regard :)

[Colin Berry]

Regarding why games are getting easier and easier (warning waffle coming) - games now are FAR different to 15 years ago.
15 year ago you would load the tape for 10mins and if it broke, you'd rewind start again no worries, it took patience.

Nowadays you have to grab a player in the first 5 mins, which means having an accessible game. That doesnt mean the whole game is easy, but it needs a degree of initial accessibility.

The reason is simple 100s of games are released each year (more games released world wide per year than films are released on cinema) its very competitive, if your game doesnt sell, you dont get to make a sequel. If your game doesnt appeal then people put it down after 5mins in the shop and walk away. Yes there are hardcore players who will persevere, but trends show they are the minority of games players and indeed potentially a dying breed, or at least a breed of gamer that is reducing a little in number.

Personally I want to make the best can I can, but I have to work within constraints, be they time, people, skills, machines, marketing, company - I have a duty to the game, to the fans and people buying it, but also to the company who employs me. I cant spend 5 years making a game that massages my ego, I dont have my own company, and I tend to find people who do that maybe dont make the best games.

Often people talk about games being art, and I've always found that quite odd, I'm not sure Beethoven or Van Gogh had the constraints on them that game developers have (or modern day musicians - I wonder how Wagner would do with Sony Music saying wer want that track finish by friday etc :D ) I'm not sure an artist can truly produce 'art' if they have to produce something for someone in a set time scale to certain requirements but I'd rambling.... as such we make games that are constrained and we aim to make them the best they can be but they have to have appeal, they have to sell, that might be hard to hear but I think you'll find you can count on one hand the number of games developers in the world who do not make games with an aim that they sell. It is a simple reality.

That doesnt mean we sell our soul and sacrifice everything, the care and attention to detail is there as is catering for the long term fans but in terms of something like the handling model we try to make it not so hard to pick up and be able to play. We did cater for all with the addition of the AI difficulty, sure there will be some people who can fly through hard and think it still too easy, but then they are the extreme of a spectrum and we have to get the game compeltable by QA to be released.

I read something recently written by David Jaffe, the guy who swears a lot and made god of War (hi Rob) about how he wants games to entertain him, he doesnt want them to test him - at first I was shocked and though WTF but then I realised I myself have reached a similar level in my gaming with age - I dont want to buy the latest FIFA even if it is better than PRO EVO I am a prov evo guy it is what I know and I dont want to relearn everything. I like games that challenge me but I dont want that constantly as I also enjoy games that are fun. In wipeout it is cool learning a hard track and nailing it a top speed, but I also get fun flying round a circuit like vineta K that I can do virtually blindfolded (exaggeration) because its fun, even though its not hugely taxing.

Games need to grab people early, the average attention span of a gamer has changed over the past 21 years from 47 minutes to 14 seconds ! (ok I just made thiose figures up completely but the attention span of society as a whole has dropped, we live in a media centric world where this mornings newspapers are out of date by lunchtime and history by mid afternoon).

I'm sure most of what I have written here is off topic and mostly pointless, but my aim with any game I am working on is to make the best X I can, be it Wipeout opr something else. However my aim has to fit with the company aim which is you have 18months top make this game. Now I could happily spend 18 months just working on the handling, but then there would be nothing else, and it would take 6 years to make the game and by then a new machine is out and you start over. So we have to make the best we can within a time frame, we also have to make it accessible, I would hate to deliberately make a game elitist and I used to be a 'hardcore' gamer, but you cant have that as an aim, games should be inclusive not exclusive. Now I wont make wipeout in a way that your gran can play it, but I want more people playing it than before and people getting rewarded by it and enjoying it. And that all flips back in part to the handling - the handling isnt the be all and end all of accessibility but it is part of it.

I remember picking up Wipeout in the local dixons shop and playing it on a 10ft screen back in the day and I pinballed down the track in last place unable to control it and I loved it and thought it was cool as ****. I'm nto sure I'd still love that now, or how many others would.

I do agree the handling now is different to the early games (its changed every iteration if you go back and play them side by side) I do think there are ways it could still improve, but then I dont think any previous version was perfect. Its all personal preference, some here will argue 2097 had the handling spot on, others will say it was WO3, others will say it was the N64 version due to the analogue stick, some love Fusion...


Just to answer one comment from phlow,
- I just don't understand the logic behind wanting to sell games instead of making a really good game

Those things are not mutually exclusive.
My priority as the lead designer is to make the best game possible, but also to deliver on time on schedule a game that people enjoy and as a consequence will buy.

It might be that some people think the old handling was the best, but what if more poeple disagree with that than agree, who is right ?

Its my job to try and please all, but I cant, so I can just juggle all the eggs and hope more survive than break.

This isnt some sort of please dont criticise response by the way, we appreicate criticism as it helps us put issues right, I'm jsut trying to explain some reasoning as to why we have to broaden the appeal of the game and why as a part of that some of the handling alters away from a harder more niche approach. Of course there are other ways to answer the problem, offering different handlign systems for example, many things have been considered and are thoguht about.

I've got to do some work now