WipEout HD's Handling [Archive]

The Gracer

14th December 2007, 03:45 AM

This, my friends, will define the game. Forget all that next-gen graphics hoo-hah, the handling engine of this game will make it, or break it.

Now that we (or, some of us) have Pulse in our hot little hands we have an insight as to what HD may contain, in the way of ships, tracks, design features and what-not. All the tracks ive piloted so far have perfect flow, they fly incredibly well, and the new Mag-Strip sections add that extra bit of flair that Pure's tracks missed somewhat. This, matched with Pulse's handling engine, has quite possibly given us the best series of circuits ever featured in the series.

However, im unsure that Pure's tracks would suit this new handling, leaving us (well, SL) with a bit of a dilemma.

Should they have written a new engine from the ground up? Using what they have learnt from each handling engine, a brand new engine would come to light. This would change the feel of the old tracks, as well as the new tracks, which would be very disappointing.

Or would they have been better off simply modifying the existing engine for use with the PS3? There is a risk that the engine might not work perfectly on the older tracks - but we would keep the gorgeous feel of Pulse.

As the elite pilots of the world (well, i like to think we are) what is our collective opinion? What do we want to see? We are the ones that are going to enjoy this game the most, so tell us how you think it should be!

Also, i wish we had Pulse long ago, so i could have created this thread at a time where answers could have changed the game. :p

Rapier Racer

14th December 2007, 01:06 PM

HDs handling is great, feels nice and floaty, the Pure track available at the time felt better than it did in Pure, a better sense of control I felt. HD is gonna rule supreme :rock

stin

14th December 2007, 01:59 PM

I gotta admit HD is actually an excellent game, even handling too but the handling wise are totally different because, we are using joystick instead of PSP. I wish I can explain to you better.

stevie:)

RingoSpoon

14th December 2007, 03:30 PM

Stevie did you get to try out using the 6-axis motion control? Or just analog stick?

I think the 'handling engine' will be exactly like pure and pulse, so there is nothing to worry about :)

Hellfire_WZ

15th December 2007, 02:19 PM

It was just the standard controls we had access to at the time. But I agree, the Pure tracks we played felt just like they should, no issues at all

jacen

20th December 2007, 03:25 PM

I think the 'handling engine' will be exactly like pure and pulse, so there is nothing to worry about :)
pure and pulse handle quite differntly, and i can't imagine what impact pulse's handling would have on my laptimes on the pure tracks.

Asayyeah

21st December 2007, 03:13 AM

Charlie : maybe a little faster will be better ;)

Seriously from what we saw on pulse preview / review / final game, handling is changing for a great result on the final one.
So for what we tested on HD on that 'early' dev version we all got an impressive feeling : this game will be truly fantastic when finished

RingoSpoon

21st December 2007, 11:38 AM

I can imagine when playing Pulse with PSP Slim on my HDTV what WipeoutHD will look like - Wow :) I cant wait until next year :)

Assimilator

2nd January 2008, 09:55 AM

WipEout will never feel right without bringing back the same feeling you get when playing it with a namco negcon on PSX. The psp's controls are very painfull in comparison.

p.s. imho every wipeout game should have a negcon bundled option avaliable with it so everyone can at least try it and get hooked on it like the drug that it is.

djb

2nd January 2008, 04:22 PM

Yes Assimilator as im sure most negon users will agree, theres no better controller for wipeout, but if wipeout developers wont back it then i guess no one will, you have to take good care of your neggie and your ps1 games so they will always be there when you want to have a "proper" fly around the track. I cant imagine how you could get close to the negcon feeling with a sixaxis, maybe thats just my lack of imagination though, as for the psp i personally cant stand to play pure or pulse as it upsets me too much that the controls dont have the immersive qualities of those of a negcon. Im fairly sure there are many here who would love to play wipeout HD with negcon supprt, and even though they may play and enjoy it with sixaxis, the nagging feeling that it could have been so much better will most probably never fade....damn you progress!!

Rapier Racer

2nd January 2008, 04:31 PM

I do not think I care too much about using a NegCon for any future Wipeout, by the time HD gets here hopefully Sonys DUALSHOCK 3 will have made it's way to UK shores and since it is known that the motion sensing technology in the pads has gotten better since the first inception of the SIXAXIS then I think it would be ideal to use the tilt feature to control the pitch. I don't think however it should be used to outright steer the ship, barrel rolls would be interesting though.

Lance

2nd January 2008, 07:47 PM

Sony can't support neGcon because neGcons have not been made for several years. No matter how much I and many other players love the old neGGie, support for it is just extraordinarily unlikely to happen.

I wish that an improved version of the old design would be made, but that seems almost as unlikely as support for past hardware. I suspect that Sony will only support things they make themselves, that they control the reliable supply of.

Sausehuhn

3rd January 2008, 07:10 PM

Not sure about your last point, Lance.
Logitech is making stuff for the PlayStation as well - with official Sony License.
But I doubt Namco is still making hardware, isn't that right? So it is highly unlikely we will see a new Negcon made by Namco. And I'm not sure if third-parties like Logitech are interested in a Necgon-lookalike too much.

Mano

3rd January 2008, 08:28 PM

I think Lance thinks the same way i do about this, this happened too with Gran turismo, as soon as there was a console change and they saw the possibility for a new licensed product, they dropped NeGcon support.

However this action in some years brought to life the driving force pro wheel, which is, for GTs case, miles better than a NeGcon.

I am not that attached to the NeGcon in the way that i wouldnt play a Wipeout game if it doesnt support it (my job already takes care of that not playing part :P) but i think its a past era for the rest of the world, not us, and maybe just maybe, someday, they will offer support for a new, better device than a NeGcon.

I have no doubts it might happen, but sixaxis doesnt convince me that way, sensor devices are laggy compared to directly controlled ones, plus there is no zero point feedback/lock which will make it very unstable to use.

but of course i can be wrong.

Such devices as the nintendo wii, are pure fun, in that i concurr, but Wipeout games (and of course others) have taken us into a more complex world where precision is vital.

Until the time a better controller comes up, i will always advocate for the very loved Neggie, and ask for its support, even though i know its a longshot.

you guys can stop crying now. :D

swift killer

3rd January 2008, 08:47 PM

I think HD should make use of pressure sensitive airbrakes, so we can be more precise with the ships when racing, i just dont like on-off-on.

Chill

4th January 2008, 12:44 PM

Or you can think like a seller yourself... it's just a free project out their waiting to produce money... right? Game designers want what the fans want, giving them more respect and dedication from the public... thus directing more of the publics money toward them, so I don't see why this project would just be dropped...

BulletWraith

5th January 2008, 01:16 AM

But I doubt Namco is still making hardware, isn't that right? So it is highly unlikely we will see a new Negcon made by Namco. And I'm not sure if third-parties like Logitech are interested in a Necgon-lookalike too much.

the Guncon3 was released by Namco'Bandai a few weeks(couple months?) ago
Namco could still make a driving controller if they wanted to, they just need a good game and some other company's to back the new peripheral up

-zer0shen

Assimilator

5th January 2008, 10:15 PM

I see I have sparked an masive interest in the gencon

do the developers visit this forum????

can we get a petition going for this ???

if you want to know how stronly i feel about this then i'll tell you this, I took my playstation 2 back to the shop becuase wipeout fusion was so bad to control with out the neggie I get realy angry because wipeout was the one reason i bought a ps2.

I have now bought a ps3 in antisipation on wipeout HD and wipeout ps3.

please hear our calls liverpool studios and namco.

The Gracer

6th January 2008, 04:15 AM

haha, sparked a massive interest?! talk to nearly any forum regular about a neggie and their eyes will light up, suddenly making strange twisting motions in midair, talking very loudly and quickly, before breaking into a cold sweat.

The neGcon was a brilliant controller, no doubt, but frankly i dont see them reviving it. The original controllers were seen by the general public as gimmicky, much like the later jogcon, and to the average consumer, the SIXAXIS controller would appear to be far superior. The only Namco controller that sold well were the lightguns, because you needed them to play games like time crisis and point blank.

Id love to see it, but it wont happen. Its just too 1995.

Vincent_VII

6th January 2008, 11:49 PM

^^^ I think I'm the only one on the planet who actually liked the Jogcon. *sniff*

:redface:

swift killer

7th January 2008, 12:13 AM

Would it work to actually flip the controller to perform the barrel roll?

Assimilator

7th January 2008, 09:00 AM

Chill

9th January 2008, 08:49 AM

Would it work to actually flip the controller to perform the barrel roll?

If this is Wipeout HD and to seem more realistic, I don't mean to be negative, but I for myself could do without the barrel role, it just doesn't make much sense... I'd much rather have a turbo-boost-energy-drain type thing that was in Wipeout 3 and 3 Special Editon...

username

17th January 2008, 02:30 PM

element42

22nd February 2008, 08:23 AM

ima_gin_e

2nd March 2008, 05:13 AM

I agree, the barrel role adds a crash cart feel to the game, we should abolish the barrel role, and use hyperthrust again.

As for the handling of the game i hope to see it somewhat close to wipeout 2097, or wipeouts handling engine. If its too close to pures i might not bother getting the HD version :S

I agree that the barrel roll was aesthetically detractive, but knowing when to do that kept you on your tows; and nailing successive barrel rolls, or salvaging a flyoff in pure was just plain exhilirating. Maybe what they could do is add a setting as they did with weapons: being able to set it on or off for multiplayer. I hope the sound of the following boost is improved; less "toylike". And maybe vary the pitch of it. More base for heavier craft, and higher pitch for lighter craft. I think the sound effects of XL were more immersive, with their echoing. And the ingame announcer was more tacit, gritty, and fit the electronic motif and primal, viceral combat. Pulse definitely add the explosive sounds. Also, I think XL had the best implementation of the plasma bolt, graphically and soundwise. They can tone down the damage a bit for the sake of multiplayer.
I also preferred the light trails of the crafts and the lighting effects of the rockets and missles in XL. So I hope they exaggerate the lighting effects in HD, as they are perfectly capable of doing that with the ps3 hardware.

But I agree, XL had the best feel. And I think due notice to that was taken, as pulse does feel "XL'ish" at times. And at times, it does excel over XL in terms of sensation of speed, particularly around winding curves and corners.

Assimilator

3rd March 2008, 11:23 AM

I don't know, I'm ready to believe that using the sixaxis will work nicely. Which is shocking, really, considering how much I love the NegCon... but sometimes, you just have to accept that some things you love belong in the past, I guess. *sniff*

<offtopic>I used to have this joystick (http://www.ntrautanen.fi/computers/other/images/konix_navigator.jpg) which I used for years on all my c64 and amiga games. It looks weird but felt so right, in the end I just couldn't use the typical 'flightstick' controller. Eventually no amount of superglue would repair it... but by then I was using my SNES more anyway.</offtopic>

Heh I know what you mean I had this awsom arcade stick for my c64 it was only 1 button and it sat in the palm of your left hand the button was undernieth on the right side. I also used it on my amiga and even on my sega master system and megadrive for sonic.

I played 2097 the other day on my LCD scren but I don't recomend it the LCD made it look blockier than I remember it being so I hooked it up to the old panasonic 68cm tube and the blocks were gone :D

So just remember if you keep the things from the past in working order you can always re live thoes moments.

long live the neggie

G-Hob

6th March 2008, 02:06 AM

ColdRem'S

6th March 2008, 10:49 AM

Totally agree with you G-Hob!:P

Axel

15th March 2008, 09:12 AM

They really, really, REALLY need to bring back the wall scraping from 2097 for Wipeout HD.

Getting just close enough to the walls to see that shower of sparks from scraping without slowing down is something the developers of Wipeout never should have gone away from. :(

This to be honest and also the floatyness. If they do this, then the PS3 is getting purchased. I just can;t get a PS3 for MGS4, I need something that will keep me playing.

yawnstretch

16th March 2008, 12:06 AM

I'm sure HD already has its handling finished so there's probably not much we can say that will influence anything.

However, I have a few comments about momentum and "bounce".

It was mentioned in the past that the bounciness of the wipeout games was toned down for QA purposes. Personally I couldn't care less if it's possible for some people to spend hours using a game's physics to accelerate themselves right out of the level. I don't care if glitching is possible if it means my game has sweet/ fun /exhilerating momentum.

Play N+. Jump on a big trampoline. Dive off a diving board.

Magnetic strips that hold you to the track are s##t. There I said it. Put them in if you have to for a loop or whatever but in pulse they are used to eliminate bounce to stop players bouncing off the track or bottoming out and personally I think the QA process has eaten into the wipEout fun more than it should.

I want to feel my craft rocking along on the edge of control, barely staying within the confines of the tracks, I want the high jumps to feel like a rush and I dont want my ship to stick low to the surface or bottom out with tiny jumps. Fusion had no vertical dynamic movement as you flowed around. Pure and Pulse brought a bit of the dynamic feel back. But it could be better. Fair enough the PSP can't calculate environments like a home console can and so QA might be freaking out with regard to popup/ tearing textures / and obscured camera view which is what happens when the bounciness is more fluid and people can hop themselves off a curve and bounce out of a level using real momentum. But the physics and the anti-gravity "feeling" mean more to me than torn graphics.

So there.

I'm sure some will scream that using momentum to break out of a level would be a nightmare for online gaming and they're probably right but I still think the game would be more fun / more of a rush.

eLhabib

16th March 2008, 12:45 PM

As much as I feel that the real floating is never coming back, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, in this day and age, a quality game can't afford to have obvious glitches like back in the day when glitches were to be expected. So unless they find a better way to keep the crafts from floating off track, I guess we won't get that good old wipEout feel back...

Axel

22nd March 2008, 07:11 PM

The floatyness is the main reason why I fell in love with the series. It felt exactly how a anti gravity craft should feel. Now with HD I see they have made an effort but it still seems not enough. Sorry but it's true.

Oh and mag strips are good for loops but lets keep them there please. I just hope they adjust for the next Wipeout game. Also get rid of BR's :)

Ota

23rd March 2008, 02:00 PM

Enough of floatiness, I need a spin in 2097 now. :dizzy

jklasdf

24th March 2008, 02:31 PM

well, as it turns out there are barrel rolls in HD that give speed boosts.
i just saw it in the gameplay videos.

Sausehuhn

12th April 2008, 01:47 PM

To the people who had the chance to play the preview:

As the X-button is now pressure sensitive, I want to ask if it really makes a difference in gameplay.
I imagine it's hard to change pressure on one of the round buttons because they are so thin and - at least for me - there's only press button or not.
I came to the idea to use the R2/L1 button for acceleration (because airbrakes do not have any pressure differences and are probably better on L1 and L2 anyway).
Does it make any difference? Can you take hard corners better if you do not accelerate 100%? I imagine the ship going faster back to topspeed if you just have 50% pressure (compared to total 0% pressure) for a short slow down.
And is playing enjoyable with four fingers always on the L/R-buttons (cause I usually just have two fingers there)?

Or is it better to slow down with pitch?

I think WOHD really offers significant changes in gaming mechanics because of those possibilities. On PSP it's almost impossible to use pitch really efficient if you're staring at the same moment. That changes for WOHD - especially because of the SIXAXIS control.

eLhabib

12th April 2008, 02:38 PM

I find the pressure sensitive x-button extremely helpful! It takes some getting used to the sensitivity, but you can control the speed very precisely. It even shows you a percentage of how hard you are pressing next to the speed bar, helps a lot with finding the right amount of pressure.
However, there was only one single turn in the 4 track preview (vinetak, anulpha pass, chenghou project, moa therma) where I really needed it, and that's the hairpin after the first long right on chenghou. It's impossible to take at full speed in phantom, and if you let go of the x-button completely, it slows you down too much. Releasing the pressure to about 70% for a second gives you the perfect speed to take it.

Skvall

12th April 2008, 02:51 PM

The sensitive buttons worked great even in MGS2 with Dualshock 2, so I wouldnt worry about it.

Vincent_VII

14th April 2008, 12:33 AM

I think as far as configurations go I'm going to go with a variation of my neGcon setup:

R2 - thrust
L2 - weapon
L1 - absorb
R1 - look back
triangle - air brake left
circle - air brake right

I think it would work well with tilt enabled or even with the analog stick/d pad.

Nadia Elenova

14th April 2008, 10:31 AM

The only wipeout I've played with sensitive buttons is Wipeout Fusion... :eek

Nadia Elenova

23rd April 2008, 10:56 AM

//Mag Strip reply :P
I've recently played 2097, if the floatyness and the way the ship slides on the track walls is back on HD that would be superb! Just dreaming...

Skvall

23rd April 2008, 11:08 AM

"Just dreaming..."

Aren't we all... ^^

G-Hob

25th April 2008, 05:20 PM

The sensitive buttons worked great even in MGS2 with Dualshock 2, so I wouldnt worry about it.

They worked horribly in Wipeout Fusion. You had to keep the Accelerate button jammed down as hard as possible for the entire race - relax your thumb even a little and your ship would start slowing down. If I wanted to slow down I'd use the airbrakes!

I ended up plugging in a Dualshock 1 to correct this flaw in the game.

Linchpin

25th April 2008, 05:24 PM

Or If you set your accelerate button to one of the shoulder buttons that fixed the problem too :D
Anyway I hope HD's hadnling has a similar feel to wip3out SE mmm mmm mmm:nod

lochiebrad

26th April 2008, 03:39 AM

They worked horribly in Wipeout Fusion. You had to keep the Accelerate button jammed down as hard as possible for the entire race - relax your thumb even a little and your ship would start slowing down. If I wanted to slow down I'd use the airbrakes!

I ended up plugging in a Dualshock 1 to correct this flaw in the game.

I totally agree with you. Pressure sensitivity is lame. I even prefer playing with the digital D-pad instead of analogue, and I feel like I have enough control over the craft.

Assimilator

26th April 2008, 04:33 AM

Dream Cloud <mmmm wireless neggie>

Darkdrium777

28th April 2008, 11:55 PM

If I am correct some games use the Pressure sensitive buttons (Like GT5 Prologue) of the SIXAXIS/Dualshock 3 really well so you do not have to press down very hard to get 100% pressure. In fact I think it is rather impossible to get 50% pressure, but 100% pressure is really easy, just press the button like you normally would on a controller (No need of an elephant to sit on it ;). Of course that may depend on the game, but I wouldn't worry about it too much, the only place where you would actually need to release the X button a little in WipEout HD being the left right angle turn after the starting line on Chengou Project (And then you don't really need to, just slam the left airbrake really hard and it should pass).

Wip3ou7

7th May 2008, 07:32 PM

Ahhh so many of you have brought up great points. My favorite WipEout was WipEout XL, so I wish they would kind of take a step in that direction again... Super floaty physics, wall-scraping, ultra-fast gameplay and handling... ah yes. I definately will give the SIXAXIS motion sensing a try, but I will probably end up playing seriously on the D-PAD (oh yes, I do perfer the D-pad over the analogue stick!!)

Vincent_VII

7th May 2008, 08:39 PM

The only wipeout I've played with sensitive buttons is Wipeout Fusion... :eek

Wait... You've played with a neGcon right?

Crusader

7th May 2008, 10:54 PM

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/199557.html has a movie (which I'm sure many have seen) with a really nice segment on the sixaxis tilt features.

It seems like it would be nice for matching your pitch to the incline/decline of the track, and since the control is so fluid it might even be better for steering outright. I sure hope so, because with completely fluid lines new track records could be absolutely insane... theoretically anyway. Someone a few posts back made a good point about locks on subtle shifts of the controller. Let's hope that's the case.

Nadia Elenova

10th May 2008, 11:13 AM

Wait... You've played with a neGcon right?
er... no, I've never had a neGcon. :?

Wip3ou7

12th May 2008, 07:33 PM

I've never used the negCon either... /cry

Darkdrium777

13th May 2008, 12:42 AM

Heh. I used it, for ten minutes :g

username

13th May 2008, 10:43 AM

I ask those who have played HD, is the handling similar to pulse, and pures where you slide, and bottom out alot, or is it similar to the traditional wipeout 2097 with the floaty and nifty feel?

I am in debate wether to get a ps3 or not. If its too similar to pulses handling ill forget it, but if its like 2097s handling then i must get it!

eLhabib

13th May 2008, 11:19 AM

You can't really put it strictly on either side of the spectrum. I think it plays a lot different than Pulse (and nothing like Pure), but that might just have to do with the fact that you can play it on an actual controller with good analog sticks. Wallscraping is definitely back to some extend (judging from preview build), so that brings it closer to 2097 I guess, but don't expect the same handling like the old games, these weren't based on an actual physics engine like nowadays.
As to the question should you get a PS3 for wipEoutHD? HELL YES!