Trackless Sections

[adelheid]

What do you think of freestyle/trackless sections in races? Do you think they open up a whole new world of possibilities for your race? Or do you think that they are pointless as everyone still follows the same line through them anyway?

[Rapier Racer]

I have one thing to say regarding the possibility of ever seeing this feature again.

NO!

[Chill]

Only if everything within the trackless section is indeed part of the race, and great graphics and physics follow along, like the craft remaining smooth rather than bumpy in mid-air (makes no sense anyway), everything has a role in gameplay (ex: flying through an old castle, someone hits a column, it falls on a person behind you), and the area has no shorter pathways to the end. Flying up a river stream blinding pilots behind, things like this requires excellent graphics and nice fiction-reactions with different elements (mabye water would light up after the player runs over it because of a combustion reaction within the engine, or the craft pick up extra energy by running through water, like fuel)... otherwise, no.

[cybrpnk]

I don't know...the first time I ever encountered a trackless section was in Fusion in hte demo track I think...and the first thing that came to mind was the pod racing scene in Star Wars Episode 1... WipEout has 2 elements to it...racing and the battling (weapons)...and the racing in WipEout for me has always been highly technical...like F1 racing...trackless sections kinda discards any of these technicalities, turning them into 'cheap' areas where you use to overtake in a not-so-technical way. I don't know how to express this right so sorry if I come across a little vague...

I guess to sum it up...no, we should get rid of trackless sections and keep WipEout the highly technical hyper adrenaline speed fest that it has always been....

[zargz]

trackless sections suck. :-

[Mark Of Insanity]

I'm not sure... I think it came packaged with the entire Episode 1 vibe that Fusion got... But that said, I loved the Podracing game (even if it was ridiculously easy on all but one level (the 3rd Ord Ibanna track)), and trackless sections were basically all that existed. In local and underground leagues, I could really understand it... but the physics of Pure (so presumably Pulse and HD, and perhaps PS3 Wipeout) would definitely hate this.

The first Wipeout would handle trackless sections ridiculously well, but I'm not actually sure about the next two games. I'd say that 2097, 64 (PAL) and SE could handle it, but not XL or the original Wipeout 3, as they stick too close to the ground.

If they stay basically upright during a whole trackless section, then I wouldn't mind seeing them. However, I have no proper experience of Fusion, so the time it was implemented means nothing to me.
Essentially, in my eyes, it is a new and cool feature being proposed... but that said, I haven't heard many good things about them, so if it was done again, it would have to be executed very carefully.

[adelheid]

So the trackless sections as they were in Fusion would be a no-no. Although I agree on the part about the bumpy/icy ground having odd effects on the handling (they FLOAT for god's sake!), can I ask why?

Ed: Oh, and in an ideal world how should they have been?

[Chill]

So the trackless sections as they were in Fusion would be a no-no. Although I agree on the part about the bumpy/icy ground having odd effects on the handling (they FLOAT for god's sake!), can I ask why?

Ed: Oh, and in an ideal world how should they have been?


Why you may most certainly ask why!! ;)

It really depends on the designers of the game. The whole entire background of the game (how the crafts and tracks are supposed for fuction, engine design, game physics) has a major impact on whether trackless sections should be used or not.

I like the idea of touching a bit of Earth every now and then, but only if executed properly!!

I thought would be to give the track itself a gravitational pull (and this could be adjusted on personal magstrips), so that the crafts would be able to have the proper hieghth on trackless sections, and still have a lowered flight on other parts of the track...

That trackless sections have good graphics!! Dust flies up from out underneath the craft rather than just behind it, and in order for this to happen, a proper air stream needs to be thought up for each and every craft, they all could have different stream lines that elements kick back off of into other players sights!! As well as water streams, grass and possibly rain in the future...

The elements should have somewhat of a reaction with the race... mabye water evaporizes when one team flies over it, or it freezes when another team (different design) flies over it.

I beleive in slippery ground though... The craft may use the kick-back of it's air hitting the ground for some kind of traction control... but if the surface is hard smooth ice or crystal, the air doesn't kick back up properly, and throws the craft off... perhaps this was the thought earlier?? But otherwise, no, they should'nt have any kind of effect... ;)

[adelheid]

That trackless sections have good graphics!! Dust flies up from out underneath the craft rather than just behind it, and in order for this to happen, a proper air stream needs to be thought up for each and every craft, they all could have different stream lines that elements kick back off of into other players sights!! As well as water streams, grass and possibly rain in the future...

Like the Thrust SSC jet car? That would be awesome.


The elements should have somewhat of a reaction with the race... mabye water evaporizes when one team flies over it, or it freezes when another team (different design) flies over it.

That just gave a vision of as ship flying over a lake and the water splitting Moses style behind it.


I beleive in slippery ground though... The craft may use the kick-back of it's air hitting the ground for some kind of traction control... but if the surface is hard smooth ice or crystal, the air doesn't kick back up properly, and throws the craft off... perhaps this was the thought earlier?? But otherwise, no, they should'nt have any kind of effect... ;)

Air? I thought they used AG to float, not jets of air? But anyway, just to reitorate: Skidding in the Ice caves? WHY? Now if I was behind people then that would make sense, with the thrusters melting the ice and blowing it at people behind it... that would probably bugger up Auricom's intakes...

[Lion]

I've always thought of the ag field as having a sort of pressure to it, the way it feels when you press two strong magnets towards each other with matching poles together.
if this sort of pressure could be conveyed visually, then I can imagine it making a "dent" in water, or shuffling dust around. in a high-res game like a new HD wipeout on PS3, there could be multiple fields generated under different parts of each ship.

as to the different surfaces impacting on speed... it should only have an effect if the ship bottoms out...
scraping the nose on dirt should slow you down more than scraping the nose on crystal for example

[adelheid]

I think "scraping" water should be a big no-no. I'm sure we have all seen the video of the Speedboat crash.

[Chill]

Perhaps y'all are right about the crystal and ice effects, but no-one really can figure out how the crafts would function yet... it still all remains fantasy.

[adelheid]

Perhaps y'all are right about the crystal and ice effects, but no-one really can figure out how the crafts would function yet... it still all remains fantasy.

I always assumed they projected some kind of Anit-Gravity bubble around themselves.

[Chill]

I assumed somewhat of the same, but generated by the gravity opposing outword from the craft generated by the entire outcome of the craft's engine and all parts within. Thus every team would use a different method...

[adelheid]

I assumed somewhat of the same, but generated by the gravity opposing outword from the craft generated by the entire outcome of the craft's engine and all parts within. Thus every team would use a different method...

I wouldn't want to be under on of those.

[Chill]

Ya, that would suck, lol. Or should I say squeeze?? ;)

[adelheid]

I've just been playing WO3SE and on Hi-Fumii I bounced off someone after a jump... I wonder if i should have bounced off the other AG field rather than the ship? I mean surely such an occurence would, in reality, be catastrophic?

[Chill]

I'm not sure... perhaps both forces would just appose each-other, and nothing big would happen... but I do believe this should be presented more-so in-game... earlier games shouldn't be followed so closely, after all, things like Wipeout shouldn't ever be stuck in time... like falling parts of craft that repel players that run over and/or by them... ;)

[adelheid]

I suppose the top one would just slide off the bottom one... man that sounded gay.

But... that could lead to over-taxing of the AG-generator if it happened too often... that would look cool, a ship moving forwards at 400mph, dropping to the ground like a rock... sparky! :D

[zargz]

adelheid, such a bad choice of words. :- :- :-
read this
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4196&page=2
and this, especially the respect but also the quotation part.
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/announcement.php?f=21

[Chill]

Yes, again, sorry about that one... :frown:

[adelheid]

adelheid, such a bad choice of words. :- :- :-
read this
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4196&page=2

If there is a point you are trying to make by showing me that thread you will have to spell it out for me because you have quite honestly lost me.


and this, especially the respect but also the quotation part.
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/announcement.php?f=21

Read that too, especially the respect part, and I still have no idea what you are trying to say... I'm not trying to be funny, but I genuinely do not understand. :\

[Flashback Jack]

If there is a point you are trying to make by showing me that thread you will have to spell it out for me..

Here's a more direct link. Read the posts immediately preceding and following it in the thread link zargz provided. The 'respect' part you've already managed to grok.

http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=71138&postcount=14

Flashback Jack

[adelheid]

Wait a minute... are you suggesting that this:


I suppose the top one would just slide off the bottom one... man that sounded gay.

Should be taken in the context of this:


.
I'm gay and it pisses me off to see this prejudiced use of the word 'gay' to mean something that's ****ed up. Do not use it here again.
.

If so you need to be pointed at and laughed at for your very public display of misreading skills, and possibly a degree of prejudice. The manner in which your brain functions is baffling!


It may or may not interest you to know that Gay couples, like Straight couples, consist of a "TOP" and "BOTTOM".
Now re-read my post, you soft tart.

[Chill]

No-one should be pointed and laughed at for trying to simply help you follow rules, and save you from trouble!! Zargz was only trying to do what he thought was right, and good on him for it...

My honest to god opinion on homosexuals is that they have feelings like females, and get hurt too easy for us to comprehend, so just hack it I guess my friend... ;)

[Medusa]

they have feelings like females, and get hurt too easy for us to comprehend, so just hack it I guess my friend

Any human being has feelings which run deeply. No one here is harshly criticizing your being in the military or making any jokes at your expense because of it. Sex does not matter, we all have a nerve which if touched sets us off completely.:bomb

Are you saying that heterosexual males are the archetypal model of thick-skinnedness? Then don't be such a dumbass. ;) I can say that because it won't bother you.

(BTW, No one can use the excuse of a certain mind-set or language or behaviour being justified simply because it is accepted around them.

Gang rape is okay because the majority says it is at the time?)

My feelings are not "hurt" by what anyone has said, rather I am astonished that there are people who truly feel their right to freedom of speech supercedes others' rights to dignity and respect.

I really don't care what anybody says in these forums, but if you type something which even has a chance of offending someone, wouldn't the decent thing to do be to apologize and remove the text immediately?

Someone correct me if I'm out of line here.

[Chill]

Sorry to offend, just an honest opinion I "had"... guess I'm a dumbass then. lol.

[adelheid]

Would now be a bad time to shine a light on my chosen lifestyle? :P

[Flashback Jack]

Incomparably dense and unrepentantly foolish. Your arrogance is also rather pungent. If I had any say in the matter, I'd punt you clear among the outer planets. :)

- F

[Medusa]

I did guess, Adelheid, but it still doesn't make the word use any better, because it offends someone else. There's a lot of terms which don't offend me but I refrain from using them because I know they offend other people.

But, anyways, this thread is now trackless, lol. So I'll weigh in on that less controversial issue...

In wipeout, trackless sections just don't work because it is a racing league...if trackless sections ever make it back into wipeout it should be relegated to a completely different section than the rest of the game...like hide-and-seek wipeout eliminator in a huge free range mode. Which would be boring for most Wipeout fans probably, since the joy of the game is the speed achieved on the tracks.

[Chill]

Howabout just going up a stream or something still small that doesn't go outside into a large range??? Side-ramps can still be used to stop the crafts going out side the range...

[Medusa]

"The real silverstream" - that does sound cool. And there are lots of natural geographic patterns that would work well (the Grand Canyon, drool...). It would just be sooo tough for the developers to do it well so that we don't all hate them in the end.;)

[zargz]

adelheid: following you own reasoning I could ask you:
hey, why didn't you say - man that sounded Sraight! ..? and we could disscuse this for ages
but never mind that, just think twice before you write anything as most of us here do.
coz there are a lot of members and non-members reading these boards
which are the most friendly I've ever seen so let's keep it that way.
...like hide-and-seek wipeout eliminator in a huge free range mode. Which would be boring for most Wipeout fans probably, since the joy of the game is the speed achieved on the tracks.I'd love that! I thought of that many years ago when 2097 come out 8)
with smaller, more manouverable ships in an Arena with obstacles, jumps and speed- and weapon pads all over the place.
all ships with the same stats but you choose your beloved team to kick the rest! :D
Last ship standing!
that'd be soGr€@t!

may be some other modes?
team battle - 2 on 2 or 3 on 3 eliminating eachother with bombs, mines, rockets, missiles and so on
and when a opponent's got low shield, which ofcource would be indicated by more and more smoke coming from the ship
just crash them in to Elimination! 8)

Capture the Flag!??
lol .. may be not!
:p

back on topic:
open areas in a wipeout?
no thanks!
not on the racing tracks anyway.

z

[adelheid]

I did guess, Adelheid, but it still doesn't make the word use any better, because it offends someone else. There's a lot of terms which don't offend me but I refrain from using them because I know they offend other people.

I'll be quiet after this I promise ;)
When I used the term Gay I did not use it in an OFFENSIVE manner but in a DESCRIPTIVE manner.... bloody political correctness, serves no purpose other than to make people paranoid.


But, anyways, this thread is now trackless, lol. So I'll weigh in on that less controversial issue...

In wipeout, trackless sections just don't work because it is a racing league...if trackless sections ever make it back into wipeout it should be relegated to a completely different section than the rest of the game...like hide-and-seek wipeout eliminator in a huge free range mode. Which would be boring for most Wipeout fans probably, since the joy of the game is the speed achieved on the tracks.

I don't understand why a trackless section cannot be part of a track, I mean, It is still part of the track, it's not exactly free-running, you do still have to go in one direction, it just adds a few tests of skill.
Although the one at Temtesh Bay should be banished back to the hell it came from X(

[Lion]

as long as I know where I am meant to go, I don't care if the track has walls, or even edges.
I'll still try to find the best line to use.

in the examples I can think of from fusion, the worst thing about them for me was that the first time I got there, the only way I knew what to do was by following the AI.

[adelheid]

never had that problem :/

[andy]

@Lion: I had that problem too on the first florion circuit when i first got fusion. that was very irritating

:\ trackless sections never really did anything for me, maybe just get on my nerves at times. They dont enhance the gaming experience and arent really that interesting or exciting as set pieces. The one trackless section i did enjoy, however, was the bit on cubis float. I love riding across the snow towards the big loop. =) Possibly the best bit in fusion for me.

Now that I think about it, trackless sections can work very well, but maybe just on a single track. I think they should only be attempted if it is believable, enhances the game play considerably, looks & feels perfect to fly through, has a clear direction and is a lot of fun.

[Chill]

I thought of that many years ago when 2097 come out 8)
with smaller, more manouverable ships in an Arena with obstacles, jumps and speed- and weapon pads all over the place.
all ships with the same stats but you choose your beloved team to kick the rest! :D
Last ship standing!
that'd be soGr€@t!
z

Nah, sound too much a bit like Wipeout/Twisted Metal to me. ;)

I hated pretty-much all trackless sections on Fusion, but that doesn't mean they can't get any better... The thing I hated about those in fusion though, was how the craft would shake "floating" over rough ground like it was on flinstone wheels!! And the sound the the ground like you were rolling over the ground, which shouldn't even make a sound other than mabye some soppy grass you'd fly over, or water, but no "gshshshshshshshshsh"... just doesn't make any sense at all... 8)

[adelheid]

@Lion: I had that problem too on the first florion circuit when i first got fusion. that was very irritating

:\ trackless sections never really did anything for me, maybe just get on my nerves at times. They dont enhance the gaming experience and arent really that interesting or exciting as set pieces. The one trackless section i did enjoy, however, was the bit on cubis float. I love riding across the snow towards the big loop. =) Possibly the best bit in fusion for me.

Now that I think about it, trackless sections can work very well, but maybe just on a single track. I think they should only be attempted if it is believable, enhances the game play considerably, looks & feels perfect to fly through, has a clear direction and is a lot of fun.

That is my favourite too :D
Did you find the shady short-cut through the trees?

[zargz]

Nah, sound too much a bit like Wipeout/Twisted Metal to me. ;)could be a good mini-game though 8)

z

[lunar]

I really enjoyed the off-track sections on Fusion, in Florion 1, Cubiss Float (including the cave bit that takes you out into the mad high jump). I think this possibly makes me a bad person. :( Maybe it`s just that they were more fun than the gluey track bits, but you can get all this sort of thing in Star Wars racers I think, so it`s not really needed for Wipeout. :)