Cheating prevention

[Hellfire_WZ]

As Pulse will be a fully online multiplayer game, I've seen a few people on other Wipeout forums getting worried about potential hacking and cheating as was seen in some SOCOM servers. Will there be any anti-cheat measures put in place to prevent this happening? I know we're all trustworthy, but I can't really speak for the majority of online gamers...

[swift killer]

could have a seperate server for members of this forum

[lunar]

I agree with your concerns, Charlie. Online play is full of it. Game-droppers, upload cheats, hackers, bad-sports..... the list is endless and they can ruin the game. Private rooms and kicking cheats are fine, but it would be great if this wasn`t necessary. Unfortunately, if there`s a way to cheat someone will do it, sad but true. However, SL have plenty of online experience through the F1 games.

[rdmx]

Hey, some of our pilots could better a constant auto-pilot cheat (I forsee that as a possible cheat)
I hope there is a way to stop it though.

[Frances_Penfold]

My guess is that the best online experiences will be with folks that we already know, from Wipeout Zone or other forums-- we'll learn to recognize each others handles and seek out races with each other.

The cheating issue will probably be dwarfed by the large number of inexperienced players that we will encounter in random matchups-- inexperienced players that not only suck at the game but also will drop out as soon as it's clear they don't have a chance to win. That was my experience with Mario Kart DS-- sure, there are some cheaters and spoilers out there but mostly it was shitty players that were bad sports when they lost. At the least the cheaters offer a challenge for an experienced driver!

[swift killer]

How about this, if any user is caught cheating, they get quarantined from the WipEout servers and have their rankings/unlocks depleted.

[q_dmc12]

I'm sure SL doesn't want to make enemies of their customers by going into their PSPs with some sort of script and start deleting gamesaves, however, I agree in part with swift. Yes their online profiles and stats should then be erased but is there a way so that they need to create a new gamesave inorder to reregister on the server(s), thus forcing them to delete or use another save...sort of like a slap on the wrist..?

[swift killer]

they could give them starting penaulties aswell, maybe PSN account fines

[q_dmc12]

but then sony would have to know who the person is, their home address and probably other personal information...I think that might be going too far for just a game. Plus, it could be some kid in the middle of a city center on a free wifi hotspot inwhich tracking IPs would be out of the question.

[swift killer]

sony get that information as soon as you register onto the PSN network, just as every other thing on the net, even ps3 can be traced to a location, also i think in combat against theft, each ps3 can be traced to its real owner + you have to BUY hd from the psn store remember :) .

they could have server 'administrators' who'll know when someone cheats in a race and stop em there and then ban them on the spot;
1st offence - 1 week ban
2nd offence - 1 month ban
3rd offence - permanant ban and all saved games, unlocks and extras deleted from users account, user will also be blacklisted for when they play other games online.

SL just need to be heavy handed to quash the problem of cheating.

[Frances_Penfold]

I like the heavy-handed approach to prevent online cheating but I would guess that it'll NEVER happen, not on a handheld, targetted at kids and young people, on a system that isn't well-integrated to an online system like XBL.

Hopefully there will be some penalty for disconnecting at least.

[q_dmc12]

hmm..I don't know - is it just me or does giving out personal information just to play a game seem a bit too much?? If not then I'm always happy playing my Sega Genesis;)

[Lance]

sony get that information as soon as you register onto the PSN network, just as every other thing on the net, even ps3 can be traced to a location, also i think in combat against theft, each ps3 can be traced to its real owner + you have to BUY hd from the psn store remember :) .


[irony alert]
And of course no one would ever lie. Or buy a second-hand console. Or leech from public wireless. Or hack the firmware. Or replace chips. And everyone can be traced right down to their actual house.
[/irony alert]

I have on occasion traced even anonymous users down to a particular street, and on rarer occasions, an address and telephone number, but this is something that cannot be relied on, and calling in the local police and attorneys and suing the bastards is not a very practical proposition even when you can be certain who they are. And if you cut their access to a service they paid for, they can sue you even if it looks like you've got a good reason to block them.

[swift killer]

i cant see how blocking someone from a service for missuse is 'no good reason' its effectively the same as a permanant ban on this forum, the guy who got banned KNOWS he deserved it.

[Mark Of Insanity]

Ahem, not neccessarily and it's just too much for games. The real discussion is really in the necessity of knowing their personal details for them to play, even if it's all lied about and stuff in the first place. The fact that it asks them and requires the information, even if false, is to me, disturbing. I wouldn't want to give out much personal information on the internet unless I was purchasing something, I think. (Or getting a neggie from lunar! Thanks bud)

On this debate I think that a slap on the wrist may be more appropriate. Cheating could result in a negative slide on a karma or equivalent system, but long time bans (a week feels like a long time, SL won't want to lose wipeout customers).

Lance don't do that to me please, I'll get creeped out and drift into a depression mired by paranoia.

[Rapier Racer]

Well with regards to cutting a service they paid for PSN is free so..

Quite simple, we will be able to spot a cheat a mile away and so, in game we all just kill that person everytime they join

[Mark Of Insanity]

Quick posts in succession but I'm not sure about that last point, if there is any sort of ranking system then that's not as likely to happen... see example scenario.

Example Scenario -
Player is spotting to be cheating, everyone can tell from a mile away.
Five of the other players proceed to just eliminate him/her. The last two then just carry on racing to take the lead and boost their rankings.

[Lance]

i cant see how blocking someone from a service for missuse is 'no good reason' its effectively the same as a permanant ban on this forum, the guy who got banned KNOWS he deserved it.

That part where you use quote marks on the phrase ^no good reason^, where did you quote that from?


-----------

Mark, even in the past, I rarely did that here on the WZ, and now that is entirely infoxicated's prerogative. But on another forum, that is mostly what I do; I investigate every new member to weed out the spammers, the stealers of members' private data, and people who try to have multiple accounts so they can avoid responsibility or outvote other people's point of view.

But I digress from the topic a bit.

[Frances_Penfold]

^^
Jesus. So what fraction of online forum participants are the good sorts that want a place to talk about games?

I really expect that most of the crap we will experience with online Wipeout Pulse will be poor sports-- people that disconnect when they are loosing, people that have explitives on their vehicles or online handle, people that wait behind corners, parked on a weapons pad. The true "cheaters" (i.e., hackers and the like) will at least provide a challenge to the good players!

Ah, that's one thing that Kai has going for it-- keeps the riff-raff away. Nobody's gonna go through the trouble of using Kai just to cheat their way through the game (or so I would guess!)

[RJ O'Connell]

^ They definitely aren't to be seen at GameSpot. ;)

I'm just glad voice communication isn't widespread on Xbox Live, I've passed through a Halo 2 phase and if the cheaters in Wipeout Pulse were to be able to talk as much **** as they were able to in H2, well...let's just say most of the registered users would not enjoy it.

Granted, the occasional back-forth dirty joke swap, as long as it's in good taste, is fine in my book. That's what she said, indeed.

[Lance]

^^
Jesus. So what fraction of online forum participants are the good sorts that want a place to talk about games?


That other forum isn't a game forum. To give you a very approximate ratio of good guys to bad guys: It has more than six thousand members, but I've banned, blocked, deleted about one thousand would-be spammers and a few data thieves. One at a time. Usually spending between 5 and 20 minutes on each one to find out if they're the bad guys or the good ones. Busybusybusy. Just think how many of the bad ones there would have been if I hadn't already blocked the major spam sources many months ago so they can't even register. Last year we were getting about 15 to 20 per day over there when things hit their worst, now we rarely get any. The most recent one was a couple of weeks ago.

Er.. um... back to the topic... :D

[lunar]

I guess it`s the ranking system that motivates people to cheat or drop the game, and that`s also what makes it so annoying when people cheat against you when you`re playing fairly. I think any cheating prevention needs to be built into the game code or the way the online system works automatically. It`s too much to expect Sony to pay people to sit and manage the online system for cheaters, though there may be a way to deal with extremely abusive players. Many online games have a way to automatically punish game droppers. Lapped players can be eliminated etc as I went on and on about before ;) and the game programmed to discourage bad losers from spoiling the race. Even if there is any problem, after a few months, when we`re all pretty good at Pulse and those who don`t want to practice have given up, then I expect the well-behaved and respectful players will outnumber the time wasters and it won`t be much of a problem, if at all.

[zargz]

somebody talked in another thread about an online game with a ranking system where the droppers were dropped to 0 points again.
but the guy lost the points coz of a bad connection. may be 50% cut would be more reasonable?

actually I dunno how the systems work but if it's on the more times you play the more points you get I wouldn't care too much about it.
can anybody enlighten me? how does the ranking system works in general on those places? :)

[rdmx]

Easiest way:
Give rankings a miss.
Easiest thing, unless you get rewards for having a high rank. It's better that everyone is percieved to be on the same level.

[swift killer]

whenever someone cheats, they should be excluded from the results of the race and it should say 'DQ CHEATING' on the results sheet to let everyone know.

[q_dmc12]

Great! Now what do you do about hackers...:?

[Mark Of Insanity]

For hackers, I would suggest stricter actions.

Hackers go beyond normal cheaters...

[swift killer]

hackers can be traced, and a company like sony should trace the hackers if they dont then its a big blow for them as well as us, sony should be allowed to attack the computer of the person/group who try to hack the PSN.

[lunar]

I don`t think a ranking system should be lost, if it`s planned, that`s great fun when it works and a great motivation to keep playing.

[zargz]

as I understand it now on kai the only way to cheat is brooding on a weapon pad.
that's easy fixed with lunars (i think) ide of 1 wapon pick up / ship til it gets to the next one.
but then what if 2 pads are close to eachother and the cheeta' goes forth and back ? :?
though huge cutting thru the scenery would be more irritating for me but that as we know is already fixed! :D

[Rapier Racer]

I hardly see how sitting on a weapons pad absorbing weapons to get energy back is cheating, are we forgetting the track position that is lost from doing that? You will loose the race its that simple (unless your are Arnaud lol) cheating is supposed to give you an unfair advantage isn't it? How is finishing last an advantage? Also sitting on a pad and setting lots of bombs on it rarely kills anyone.

[Mark Of Insanity]

Well, it's just a possibility that players will sit on weapons pads shooting other players and getting in the way to ruin their fun, or something of that sort. Don't ask me for information on understanding the reasons!

[infoxicated]

I'm sure Colin can confirm, but I'm sure it's set that a ship cant gain a second weapon from a weapon pad in the same lap. There might be more to it than that, but I think that's how its implemented.

[Tomahawk]

I don't think that you could call it cheating if a player just stops on a weapon pad and places bombs all over the place or turns round and tries to shoot the others when they approach him each lap. I've seen this been done by various players on Kai (and did it myself sometimes too I must admit :D) and I've never seen anybody win a race using this tactic. If somebody really thinks he can play counterstrike instead of wipeout all the time when you're playing online multiplayer you just should be able to ban this user from your games. Like on Kai - just create a private arena to play and don't tell the password for it to this guy. :naughty :) Sometimes, if you do some huge mistake by yourself at the beginning of the race (flip upside down at chenghou or totally mess up the curvey up and down bit at citta on the first lap) you can choose to hope for some mistake by your opponents to catch up to them again and keep racing or you choose to practice a little bit of "back plasma" or "back rockets" on your opponents. Maybe you score a lucky shot :sonar, but this really doesn't happen very often.

[RJ O'Connell]

If we could, and wanted to, we could have a WZ members only race room - password through Private Message or e-mail only...

[Rapier Racer]

Only one weapon per pad per lap eh, that makes things interesting with regards to topping up energy, if pit lanes existed you could just slow off and sort of creep along at the back till you find the pit. I think on Wipeout 3 the slower you pass through the pit the more energy you can restore so you could essentially refill an almost completely depleted shield. One weapon a lap system means we will REALLY have to think about whether or not the weapon should be fired, I also believe it spells disaster for low shield ships since some players can instinctively tell when your almost out of energy and will wait around the corner to finish you off and since you can no longer park and absorb, RIP Assegai & EGX then.

[Mark Of Insanity]

Rapier, I'm pretty sure that we can still pick up more than one weapon per lap, just not from the same pad on that lap.

[Lance]

Hm.. if that's just total pickups per pad per lap rather than per person per pad per lap, that would certainly change strategies. Sheesh, one pickup per pad to be fought for by everybody. Wildness ensues.

[zargz]

In pure I never stop on a pad just to absorb energy, never stop in general.
if low on energy just absorb anything you get your hands on - quake, boost, everything! 8)

[Rapier Racer]

Rapier, I'm pretty sure that we can still pick up more than one weapon per lap, just not from the same pad on that lap.

Em, I wasn't suggesting otherwise

[Mark Of Insanity]

'One weapon a lap system means...'

Uh, anyway I guess that's not important... although I'm still confused. Is it one pad gives one weapon to anyone but only to the same person if it is a different lap? Or one pad gives one weapon each lap and that's it?
I previously though the former but now I'm not so sure! :brickwall

[Rapier Racer]

Look at the start of my post it says 'Only one weapon per pad per lap.

They mean the same ship cannot get more than 1 weapon from the same weapon pad on any given lap, so you cannot say, stop your ship on a pad and absorb lots of weapons to regain shield for example or plant lots of bombs on the pad because each pad only gives you 1 weapon per lap.

[lunar]

Yes indeed, you won`t notice the difference unless you park on pads, but it will make things even more tense in final races of a tour, when leading the points and trying to survive at all costs while others try to kill you at all costs.

Now all we need is to eliminate lapped ships, to stop people hanging back to shoot their buddies` rivals, and other anti-racing things people could do. This would add a lot of tension: imagine being up against a fast pilot in the the last race of a tour, he has to kill you to win the tour, and he decides to do it by giving you a rocket shot on the first lap, and eliminate you by lapping you! You would not be able to afford to play safe and cruise round. Don`t think it couldn`t happen...... :robot :)

[swift killer]

why dont we have a detection system which as soon as someone is picked up cheating, their psp get fried straight away, all it takes is sending the right code to that psp and it will fry itself, such a code exists for all hardware, its just a matter of figuring it out.

[infoxicated]

You really are full of **** sometimes, you know?

[Fascia]

A 'trust' based system will never work, there are simply too many insidious people in the world. Likewise a reporting system wont work either, It'll require someone in full time employment at Studio Liverpool just to monitor the online games, in addition, a reporting system could easily be exploited. Unfortunately the only way to do this will be to modify the game mechanics, although in my experiences with pure weapons pad camping is entirely unproductive because you simply can't use the majority of the weapons you pick up, you'll inflict no more damage than had you trailed an opponent and filled their rear end with missiles, rockets and plasmas.

There's also the issue of outright cheating, what we've been covering here is exploiting at most. Outright cheating is a whole other ballgame, especially if the calculations for physics, weapon pickups (etc) are all done on the client-side, then even a simple memory edit could triple a ships statistics.

Unfortunately on a game like Pulse there's always going to be cheaters, and because SL don't have the resources for constant monitoring (Just my guess, but I do believe SL is relatively small), our best bet would be to compile a list of cheaters on wipeout zone.

[Hellfire_WZ]

I'd imagine you'd need something like Punkbuster running on the servers (only here we'd need one that would actually work...). A program that constantly scans each player for discrepancies in their game data, and kicking anyone who is running with hacked data.

[swift killer]

thats what i was saying before, but someone thought i was talking bollocks 0_o

[Mobius]

Well when it got to the spinal tap levels of their PSP self destructing in their hands whenever they use it was slightly along the lines of testicles. I know its trying to sound funny but in the current light of people voulenteeringly doing that to themselves, you think it's actually a smart idea?

Christ, I just flamed someone...

[infoxicated]

thats what i was saying before, but someone thought i was talking bollocks 0_o
No it wasn't, you were spouting some crap about secret codes that fry hardware. That is talking bollocks in my book.

[Mark Of Insanity]

Hm, if the stats are done client-side, then this would be a problem. But I think the most that could happen is a 10/10/10/10 stat boost, which would be picked up and hopefully kicked and suchforth. I know that it would be entirely probable if this was the case.
BUT, if it was picked up immediately anyway, it wouldn't really ruin anyone's fun, whether it was server-side or not. So I guess that's moot as long as the devs take it into account.

[Frances_Penfold]

I really think some of you are making this worse than it will be.

Look at the popular portable online games right now-- Mario Kart DS, Metroid Prime Hunters DS, Tetris DS, some of the FPS titles on the PSP. All of these games have been hacked but how often do you ACTUALLY meet hackers in online play? Personally I have a MUCH tougher time actually finding a halfway decent player than dealing with hackers.

Same goes for "cheaters" and "sandbaggers" and "weapons parkers," i.e., folks that play cheaply but do not actually hack the game. I don't meet these folks very often in online matchups and when I do, they generally end up making things a little more interesting for match. Not a big deal.

Bottom line is that the most satisfying gameplay we are going to have is with each other-- folks that take the franchise seriously and have put serious effort into mastering the game and have some sense of honor about the way they play the game. We are going to have a blast playing together.

I do think it makes sense for SL to have simple deterents, like a penalty for disconnections, or limitations on getting weapons from the same weapon pad, things of this nature. But IMO we shouldn't get carried away in worrying about cheaters :)

[RJ O'Connell]

^ Besides, I think we know most of the prospective online Wipeout players would be mature enough to be able to race over the internet with no problems, and not just the "regulars" we see around this forum every day.

[mdhay]

Hopefully there will be some penalty for disconnecting at least.

One thing they [SL] could do is take a leaf out of insomniac's book, and make a match server that, if you quit from, will make you unable a ranked game for 15 mins?
To remedy the weapom pad dilemma, how about making wep. pads have an integrated boost, that only just raises your speed, and you go forwards when you go over it, and you cannot go on it again because you go backwards!

Sounds good, right?

[Rapier Racer]

Weapon pad dilemma? I think it's been said that you cannot get more than one weapon from any single pad per lap, no pad will give 2 weapons on the same lap if I remember that right no dilemma.

[KANDANG]

not sure how the ladder ranking works but imho i wouldn't want to see people who team up with their friends to give a single account cheap free wins to boost their record.

if possible, implement random matchmaking when searching for games that count towards ladder ranking

and for games that don't go to their win / loss record, people would start a custom game for others to join in.

[mdhay]

Sorry about that, RR, I didn't get what one weapon per lap meant, but I have only just got it.

[DjManiac21]

I wasn't particularly happy about game droppers yesterday because of this.
We were all racing, full grid, after a couple of races they start dropping, which brings something cool, that is, the game loads every ship but then those who dropped explode! :P

Anyways, we were racing, they start to drop, until there's only me and some other guy. He drops in the middle of the race and then the game said "You are the last player, please quit" and I go like "Ok, ill do that".

I go look at my stats because I wanted to make sure and there it was, my first and only disconnection, thanks to those guys dropping, not even a win...

And for the rest, sometimes tournaments tables get messy when eliminated people leave, i was first once with like 24 points, and after a couple of guys left I was 4th with 11 points... even after winning that race! :blarg

it's a lovely experience though, love online play!

Laterz!

[Frances_Penfold]

So do you HAVE to quit out of a race when everybody else drops? Just curious if you can finish the race if you wanted to...

The droppers were a REAL problem back in 2005/2006 with Mario Kart DS-- for a skilled player, only about one-third of started races would actually run to completion. If you were the only player left, MKDS would require you to quit, and dumped you back at the lobby window.

[infoxicated]

I go look at my stats because I wanted to make sure and there it was, my first and only disconnection, thanks to those guys dropping, not even a win...
I've spoken to the network play guys about this and they offer their heartfelt apologies. This was indeed an oversight, and you should not be credited with a disconnect for it.

Thanks for the feedback, though :+

[DjManiac21]

Hey, thanks a lot Rob! :D

It's great to know that we can contribute in some way :beer

It was never meant to be a complaint though, I'm happy enough having online to finally meet and race all of you!

[zerojay]

I've had the same thing happen to me time and time again. All four of my "disconnects" were caused by other people dropping out when I got too far ahead or once they lost the first race of a tournament. I don't want their lack of sportsmanship to show badly on me.

I also don't understand the Ranking system whatsoever. What are the points based on? All I know is that I had 23k points on Monday and suddenly now I'm at only 19k... even though I've beaten many of the people ahead of me many times. What's going on?

[Chrono]

I'm also curious. I don't think it's based on online success, but I could be wrong. It might be based on times submited with points given to how you ranked with them?? Maybe? I dunno, cause I wouldn't be in the top 20 if it was based on online victories, I'm constantly second place behind a veteran player

[ZenDJiNN]

Please excuse my ignorance, as i'm new to the whole "Online Gaming" thing, having only raced my first ever races last night. (Which i thoroughly enjoyed BTW) :)

I've been reading this thread, and find it very interesting. Is there really THAT MUCH that goes on? How so? I can't actually see many ways that a person could "Cheat".... it's a game, you play, you win or you lose, and yes your connection may or may not get dropped. But beyond that, is there really many more ways that a person can cheat?

As i've said, it's early days for me, and all i've had so far are pretty good experiences. Am i being somewhat naive? :)

[Task]

It's not really as big an issue as it sounds. The majority of problems stem from internet unreliability and programming bugs. It's just that all that stuff gets rolled into one ball called "exploits", which are often leveraged heavily by "cheaters". That's typical for online games.

Whether or not Pulse has any of these problems, or to what degree, is something we won't really learn until the game's been out a week or so, and the majority of the issues have shown themselves or been resolved.

What you see here is a bunch of hardcore dedicated players that see the possibility of the holy grail, perfectly implemented races against each other in an online environment that keeps track of a leaderboard for them, no manual effort required.

It's looking like a thing of beauty from where I'm sitting, but those who have the game are looking for issues that might arise in the hopes of getting them identified early in the cycle.

[ZenDJiNN]

Thanks for that reply Task, kinda clears it up. It sounded (at first) far worse than it "Potentially" is. :)

As for the Holy Grail thing... yeah, i can see how that would be a great thing to achieve. I hope that it happens.

[KANDANG]

I wasn't particularly happy about game droppers yesterday because of this.
We were all racing, full grid, after a couple of races they start dropping, which brings something cool, that is, the game loads every ship but then those who dropped explode! :P

Anyways, we were racing, they start to drop, until there's only me and some other guy. He drops in the middle of the race and then the game said "You are the last player, please quit" and I go like "Ok, ill do that".

I go look at my stats because I wanted to make sure and there it was, my first and only disconnection, thanks to those guys dropping, not even a win...

Laterz!

;) i've got 10 disconnects to date because of that

[swift killer]

Why don't they punish/penalise game droppers or put them in a seperate server so they don't wreck other people's stats?

[Sausehuhn]

More important: so they don't wreck other people's gaming experience. For me there's nothing worse than having fun with a nice tournament and then people start quitting making the race worthless.

[zargz]

if I win a race with a margin of 5-10 sec I don't go back to that arena - they'll dc for sure.
so do the smart thing and stay in 'your' class.

if you are good at phantom don't go stealing candy from the kids in venom/flash!
they'll dc on you! :D

coz what's the fun in being beaten with 10sec?

even more - what's the fun in winning with 10 sec??! :?

[lunar]

The other night I was in a tour and the only one left in the last race after a DC. It told me to quit, but I waited instead. After a short while there was a countdown in the bottom left of the screen, then I was returned to the menu, and didn`t get a disconnect in my stats. So I don`t think you need to ruin your own stats because of droppers if you wait.

[rageagainstgeorge]

zargz - i wish everyone had the same attitude as you do. I'm a big believer in playing fair and I don't like thrashing the opposition (which is good as it rarely happens).

If someone is trouncing me I treat the race like a TT and just stick it out.

Excellent tip btw Lunar. Cheers for sharing that.

[zargz]

rage:

I hope more people think like that! :+
coz, what does it tell you about them if they don't?


lunar:

once when I was the last one on the track and I quit as the game told me
immediatelly after that I went to my stats and the dc wasn't there but ..
afte a few games it was there so, may be your came also after that count down??

but hey, I'll try that if/when it happenes again that I'm the last one.

cheers!

[DjManiac21]

I'm taking full responsibility on this, this god_of_lord guy is a fu''ng cheater, just confirmed... yes, name and everything, i dont care anymore
We raced 2 tracks, on moa therma (venom), I start third lap with boost, racing toe to toe with this damn cheater, guy just flies by me like he had 2 boosts, I go with my piranha, autopilot, boost, left the guy really behind on the long mag strip part, I was looking back on him just to chek, I race and turn into the s turn section after the long loop, this guys starts s turning like crazy, goes into the u turn and was gone... and finishes the lap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I noticed because the counter went red!!!! So this guy finishes from the s turns section, into the u turn, on venom and finishes this section in what, 2 seconds?!?!?!?! WTF!

Sorry for bitching, it's just frustrating having to compete against this asshole on top of some ranking tables (EG. Venom for Talons) and then on top of it knowing that it is possible that this method of cheating might propagate and other smart asses will come around setting number 1 records by just miliseconds at a time so they look real...

I said this already, it was fishy to have such a great time on venom with feisar 1 or 2 days after the site launched.

I waited so long to play Wipeout online that this kind of things freak me out seriously...

I just hope this kind of things won't ruin the game for the honest pilots ... :|

[jacen]

maybe some sort of latency exploit?

[zargz]

raced him today 1 race on flash. he beat me with 2 sec. cheat? I dunno :|

i seem to recall he froze, I passed him then he flew by me but may be just a lag? :?

[Asayyeah]

it's too late here to comment on that but you shall be reading me tomorrow , i raced that guy tonight on few phantom tracks and i must reckon something is abnormal with that pilot.
He was certainly surprised to be beaten on 3 tracks ( 7 done in 1 vs 1 agaisnt him) but only due to weapons luck at the start of lap1 where i ruined his 3 tracks even he got like AP or infinite turbo.
More description of him tomorrow sorry i need my bed right now!

[KANDANG]

if I win a race with a margin of 5-10 sec I don't go back to that arena - they'll dc for sure.
so do the smart thing and stay in 'your' class.

if you are good at phantom don't go stealing candy from the kids in venom/flash!
they'll dc on you! :D



hehe the problem happens when they join your phantom game and decide after lap 1-2 that they're not going to be able to finish the lap.

and not many rapier / phantom games around these days. :coffee

[zargz]

true. but there will be soon. afaik you and asa has completed the game.
del stefo and insertcoin/radiumx (ozzy as well) comes to mind as solid Raper Racers, at least.
pun intended RR ;)

for sure if you hook up with them you'll have more fun and no DCs!

also to make sure avoiding DCs a good way is to have at least 2 woz pilots in the race :D

[Asayyeah]

going back to that strange boy God of Lord is , which has surprised me at 1st was the lack of sound he produces : absolutely no weapons he shot me and i was not be able to hear him pick up a weapon from the 6 races we did . why 6 and not 7? cause one track ( vertica black phantom) i hear him firing me weapons ( or trying to :D ) and in this race i was leading by 8 sec at the end... strangely after that track i never heard anymore weapons from him...except those F**** infinite turbo or AP he's using ALL the time.

Honestly i was proud to shot him and ruined for him 3 of his racetime, thx to kai and those 2 years of fightin there, but you know when ill have time and my wifi workign at home i ll video my races with him and you ll see what i mean.

[stin]

Asa, yes IF you get hold of him! because, he know who you are and he probably will quit his race.

Personally, I`m still not too sure of that guy!, because, I did checked his scores, his scores are looks pretty legit and some are nowhere near legit!

stevie:)

[Hellfire_WZ]

Seems to be the open tracks where his scores are dodgy. Turbo overdose? May also explain why he has no times in the higher speed classes

[rageagainstgeorge]

From the sounds of it (i've not raced him and have no wish to) it does sound like an infinite turbo.

He does seem to be the only cheater at the moment though.

[Chrono]

His venom Vertica White Speed Lap is ridiculous. Vertica is a track I pride myself on being quite good at, and usually the only track I can consistently beat the Zone people at, but his time is 1.5secs faster than mine. Either he's BRing somewhere, or something. Open invitation to anyone that can do some more analyzing of the time with me

[Asayyeah]

Vertica was so strange on phantom against him , as i said on the black part i smoked strangely his arse by 8 sec , and on the white i was doing 3 PL having sweet AP and turbos, i saw that guy right in front of me, his ship banging walls like hell but he has done an insane 1.38 on that one compared to my 1.41 which is not a slow race...

Chrono i am gonna test that venom TT one and try to analysis this more with you if you ok

[Chrono]

Yea, give it a go. The best place to boost, I think, is on the big turn, because the whole thing is a mag strip and considerably slows your ship down. The only way that wouldn't be applicable would be if you can boost to BR. I dunno, I'm gonna do some more testing here in a bit

[Hellfire_WZ]

Just raced him. His acceleration is very suspicious. I know FEISAR has strong thrust, but he got off much quicker than everyone else at the start of the race. Plus his movement reminds me of an extremely laggy Kai session

[lunar]

rage:

once when I was the last one on the track and I quit as the game told me
immediatelly after that I went to my stats and the dc wasn't there but ..
afte a few games it was there so, may be your came also after that count down??



You were right mate, the DC is now in my profile, and my theory is up in smoke!

[Rapier Racer]

We need to get him in a race with a few zone pilots maybe 3 or 4 of us where everyone attacks him till hes dead in every race until he quits. See how much fun that is for him. Ultimately like I said in another thread somewhere, it looks like the official tables are going to have about zero credibility.

[jacen]

Yea, give it a go. The best place to boost, I think, is on the big turn, because the whole thing is a mag strip and considerably slows your ship down. The only way that wouldn't be applicable would be if you can boost to BR. I dunno, I'm gonna do some more testing here in a bit
why not boost at the finish lane? you can monetize your entire boost there without any risk of banging any wall or sacrificing a speedpad.
if you lateboost first lap and make an early boost on the finish lane, its almost as if you would have 2 boosts for that round. but im sure you know that already ^^

[Colin Berry]

Right now as its xmas and we are all off :) there is not a whole load we can do. However if we could see the races in action we might get a handle on whats going on (if anything).

If I can get myself to the office monday morning (unlikely) and pick up the game, then I'll get online over xmas and take a look, but more likely it will be in the new year.

From what people are saying, it does sound a little suspicious but I wouldnt want to make assumptions.

[Flashback Jack]

More than suspicious, Colin, and it's completely confirmed that he's a hack. He smokes some of the best pilots in the game by a such a wide margain, gamers capable with their own reflexes of wringing out everything the game has to offer, that it's ridiculous.

- F

[Chrono]

why not boost at the finish lane? you can monetize your entire boost there without any risk of banging any wall or sacrificing a speedpad.
if you lateboost first lap and make an early boost on the finish lane, its almost as if you would have 2 boosts for that round. but im sure you know that already ^^


Because the mag strip drops your craft speed around 30 kph. If your trying to eek out that extra .1 sec, it counts. At least I think they do. It's so hard to actually tell cause by the time I look down at my speedometer I'm already off the strip, but I'm fairly confident they do.

[BARTgai]

hmm, ill look out for this guy when i start playing online ( may be a while because i dont know if my wireless adapter works with vista :? )


you say he's only using a Feisar?

[jacen]

Because the mag strip drops your craft speed around 30 kph. If your trying to eek out that extra .1 sec, it counts. At least I think they do. It's so hard to actually tell cause by the time I look down at my speedometer I'm already off the strip, but I'm fairly confident they do.

umm ... there is no magstrip at the finish lane on talon's junction ... or am i an complete idiot?

[Chrono]

I was talking about Vertica

[zargz]

..mag strip drops your craft speed around 30 kph. If your trying to eek out that extra .1 sec, it counts. At least I think they do. It's so hard to actually tell cause by the time I look down at my speedometer I'm already off the strip..there's a looong magstrip at moa if you need to check your ships behaviour ;)

[Fascia]

I've raced God_of_Lord 5 times in total now, 3 technical tracks and 2 fast tracks. on the Technical tracks I took the victory, on the fast tracks he did. Now the interesting thing comes when we discuss his acceleration, Hhe'd always start the race a good deal ahead of me, even when I used pitch control and perfect timing, he'd be ahead, if he was in AG-sys I'd understand, but we were BOTH in FEISAR, and even so, the acceleration was beyond that of even AG-sys.

I still beat him 3 me, 2 him, so I'm a happy chappy :D

[Asayyeah]

Excellent Forza Fascia !
maybe if we can win agaisnt him more constantly that cheater will leave the board...