Pulse Concerns

[Hybrid Divide]

Hey guys. It's been a long time since I posted. But I'm psyched to hear about Pulse.

I do have one concern, though. With these "Magnetic Sections" to have loops and such, I'm worried we'll get back into some situation like we had in Fusion.

I have a ton of faith in the development team, though. So I'm sure it'll be great.

It was just a small worry, you know?

[Dogg Thang]

I think many people share your concerns. I really thought Fusion was a mis-step and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw reverse tracks and magnetic sections mentioned for Pulse.

However, as you know, Colin reads these boards a lot and has posted the team's intentions and he seems very aware of Fusion elements that people didn't react well to. I don't think there will be much to worry about in that regard. The old classics are very dear to people (esp 2097 and WO3) and Fusion isn't. Pure was very well received. Though I obviously can't speak for them, I think the team is likely very aware of this and will be looking as much as possible to recapture what was great about the classics while moving on from Pure rather than looking to the one black sheep of the series.

[yawnstretch]

Bring back the bounce.

[q_dmc12]

yes, it always seemed like fusion ships were locked onto the track after a jump:naughty

[The Gracer]

having recently getting hold of a fusion disk (again) and then promptly returning it (again) i would hate to see Pulse share the (in my opinion) 'downforcey' feel of fusion. it felt like flying an f1. no thanks.

Having said that, i dont think they would throw it like that. only time will tell.

[Silverstream]

I really liked WipEout Fusion actually, but I must admit the 'trackless' sections were little more than an annoyance and I hope Pulse doesn't go the same way. :naughty

I hope Zone mode has more interesting tracks in Pulse as opposed to the colourful but unexciting ones we had in Pure.

[Sausehuhn]

...when I saw reverse tracks...
not every track will be the same when played reverse because of different track layouts :)

[Dogg Thang]

That wouldn't help my issue with reverse tracks. Wipeout, unlike almost any other racing game I've played, is best for me when played on instinct. It's one of the reasons the amount of tracks found in the first couple of gmes was perfect for me. I could play them over and over until, eventually, I didn't have to think about what was coming next. My fingers just went in the right directions.

Fusion revealed to me how this was happening - the visual clues. When Fusion introduced reverse tracks and multiple routes, I couldn't learn the tracks to an instinctual level because I was seeing the same visual clues, yet getting conflicting messages from whatever part of my brain plays Wipeout. My instinctual playing simply couldn't happen in Fusion.

If we have reverse tracks in Pulse and I'm getting the same visual clues yet needing totally different reactions whether played forward or reverse, it will mean I'll never get totally comfortable with the tracks.

[infoxicated]

Which I would agree with if you were running the same part of the track in the same direction, but you're not.

[Dogg Thang]

True, but you're getting the same visual input. Some objects are going to look very different as you're going to see the back of them but many track areas are going to look much the same - same walls, same textures, same background constructions.

Imagine Phenetia Park backwards. The texures alone in that high-walled section give my brain enough info to recall the movement and the order. Going backwards, I'd get the same visual input and I'd plough into the wall.

I'm not saying this happens to everyone (or even anyone else), but it happened to me in Fusion. Never once did I get familiar with a track layout. When the Classic versions appeared in Pure, the Fusion layouts meant nothing to me yet the others were instantly familiar.

As far as concerns go, it's a big one for me. The reasons some things don't work or cause problems aren't always as obvious as they seem. The fact that people didn't react well to Fusion would have me personally nervous about revisiting those elements because it assumes I understand exactly what caused the problem. I may well not.

But, as I said in the second post, these concerns were just my initial gut reaction. Pure has earned the team my trust and trust them I do. Yeah, there are concerns but Colin is clearly aware of the differences in reception between Fusion and Pure (and, of course, the classics). Pure was gaming gold and I have no doubt that Pulse will be excellent. I couldn't look forward to it more than I already am!

[Tomahawk]

As far as I can remember Clarko said something about the backwards tracks which sounded like this: "You can race the tracks backwards in Pulse, but they'll be totally different tracks than when racing them forwards. It'll be different from the way this was done in Fusion." Correct me if I've misunderstood something there, guys, but I think that's what was announced by Clarko.

[Rapier Racer]

Well I don't have a problem with backwards tracks. I can't say I found myself suffering from what Dogg describes, to me the tracks felt so different in reverse that I learned them as a new track layout entirely so bring the backwards tracks on I say!

[JABBERJAW]

If you have a problem with reverse tracks, just don't play them(except to beat the game). The reverse tracks in fusion played much different, and actually a cool part of the game, and actually would be even better with good physics.

[q_dmc12]

I have to agree, it made the tracks more interesting even after playing them over and over - gave the tracks a little variety; enhanced the replayablility.

[Colin Berry]

Wipeout Fusion was a pretty bad game

I doubt you'll find anyone in Studio Liverpool who will argue it was anything other than the worst in the series and flawed in many many ways.

However, that does not mean that everything about Fusion was bad.
For example, Zone Mode came from Fusion, and personally, I think Zone Mode is ace.

The reverse tracks feature is not something we have taken 'from Fusion', as it is something that has appeared in numerous racing games throughout the years, we set out from the start saying we would not simply do 'cheap' reverse tracks, we would put as much effort into both directions from a design and art perspective and that is what we have done. I was and I am acutely aware of not breaking things and not adding or changing or removing things just for the hell of it. I completely appreciate peoples concerns that the game doesnt turn out like some sort of Pure / Fusion Hybrid - It wont.
I can also understand Dogg Thangs problem with reverse tracks in general, that I have to say though is something I cant really address :D

Remember, the reverse tracks in Fusion were not all bad some played far better than the forward version ! And without the Fusion reverse tracks, I would never have worked on Fusion (as my initial job that I was hired for was sorting them out for camera and pads etc) meaning there would never have been a Wipeout Pure ! :D
Sort of.

[rdmx]

I still think Fusion wasn't that bad IMO. I quite enjoy playing it still. It had an ace soundtrack!

Only a few flaws:
Ships sucked to the ground
So many weapons that it would be impossible to complete the race without pitting every lap (unless Florion Height Course 1)

[q_dmc12]

oh don't get me wrong, when it came out I though it was the best one yet. However, upon comparing it to the "classics" I too began to notice some caveats (caviots?)......quirks - some quirks. :D

[Sausehuhn]

That's how Clarko explained the reverse track designs to me. That isn't the case for all tracks, but at least for a few.
So not every track reverse will be the same as forward just with another direction.

http://cybershot.cy.funpic.de/kram/sonstige_bilder/WipEoutZone/stuff/pulseTrackDesignJPG.jpg

[infoxicated]

Oooh!

Check out Max and his elite Photoshop skillz! ;)

[Angryman]

I assume where there is a huge drop there will be tunnels or something when playing in reverse, unlike fusion where you had these stupid fans which pushed you up.
It would be cool if it was done this way, and would ease my worries a bit, but you still have loops and areas where you become stuck to the track ala fusion.
But after all the complaints and bitching which were done about Fusion, i'm confident that LS have learnt from that experience and won't go in that direction for Pulse and definitely (hopefully) not for PS3 wipeout.

The image suise posted is also a good way of doing it, as long as there are no fans! PLEASE!

[Rapier Racer]

So many weapons that it would be impossible to complete the race without pitting every lap (unless Florion Height Course 1)

Tigron


The reverse tracks feature is not something we have taken 'from Fusion', as it is something that has appeared in numerous racing games throughout the years

It certainly has lets not forget Wipeout 3 SE has a track mirror option

[Lance]

And the original Ridge Racer of um... 1995?
And possibly others way before that.

[Brother Laz]

The reverse tracks feature is not something we have taken 'from Fusion', as it is something that has appeared in numerous racing games throughout the years, we set out from the start saying we would not simply do 'cheap' reverse tracks, we would put as much effort into both directions from a design and art perspective and that is what we have done.

I'm reminded of POD, that massively underrated '97 steampunk/space opera/Mad Max racing game. Some of its tracks (especially the later downloadable ones) were radically different in reverse mode, with whole sections being added or removed. I've never seen any other game go that far ever since.

Regardless of how much tarmac is different, if key sections are unchanged and the 'style' of the track remains the same, often one version of the track will end up 'better' and the others will be ignored. Need for Speed, I'm looking at you.

......

Off-topic: Wipeout 1 & 2097 had some fresh new settings, but every game after that recycled the same old 'Ridge Racer setting', this vaguely futuristic city. That or the generic dystopian setting of '64 and Fusion with some dumb bits of humour thrown in.

Is there a(n identity) reason why no other settings have been chosen, like deep future (racing on Delta Centauri) or cyberpunk? Maybe it's just me, but if I wanted to see glass skyscrapers, I'd take the train to Brussels. Early Wipeout has partly been about looks ('more colours, more speed, more noise'), whereas 3 and Pure no longer seem to care much and just scatter designer billboards around Ridge City.

......

Magnetic sections are okay if they enhance the track. Fatal Racing/Whiplash had this one track which featured a half loop followed by a corkscrew jump that flipped you right way up. The whole thing was magnetic (complete with big magnet signs) and you had to try and land wheels down on a track running upside down 'above' you. That was neat.

Generic loops and corkscrews are not.

As for the 'rollercoaster defence', I don't think rollercoasters do negative Gs all that often. You'd fly out of your seat. If you need a magnetic track to stay on the ground, maybe the descent is too steep in the first place...?

Yes, I'm thinking of the irritatingly fake Extreme-G tracks, which tended to feature very long straights going up and down and upside down pulling about -100 G at each kink, whereas all the player had to do was put a brick on the accelerator...

[Dogg Thang]

Mirrored tracks are entirely different. And of course other racing games have it. Many racing games have many other features too but Fusion is my only frame of reference for how it applies to Wipeout.

Can I just point out that this came from the second post in this thread in which I was advising Vagrant Logic to have faith in the team? It's only because my reverse track concern was commented on (in a way that would not have affected that concern) that I needed to go into more detail. I did not initially intend to. Nor is it a big issue. Can we go back and read my second post again?

[q_dmc12]

I'm reminded of POD, that massively underrated '97 steampunk/space opera/Mad Max racing game.

WOW! I didn't think anyone played that game but me - I do a google search and I get some band:blarg
Weren't you able to play that online as well? - back to the topic, sorry.


...Colin reads these boards a lot and has posted the team's intentions and he seems very aware of Fusion elements that people didn't react well to. I don't think there will be much to worry about in that regard. The old classics are very dear to people (esp 2097 and WO3) and Fusion isn't. Pure was very well received. Though I obviously can't speak for them, I think the team is likely very aware of this and will be looking as much as possible to recapture what was great about the classics while moving on from Pure rather than looking to the one black sheep of the series.

[Lance]

Back to the topi.... uh, wait a second. hm... a steampunk Mad Max Headroom racing game. Twenty minutes sideways into a parallel universe. Oh yeah! I could enjoy that. :D

oh... *coff, ahem* back to the topic. :D

[stin]

Is this region free version?

Just being curious.

stevie:)

[Medusa]

Anyone notice the colour of the chevrons in the teaser trailer? ORANGE?:blarg

I may be far too traditionalist for my own good, Where's the pretty blue?

Looks like some beautiful graphics we're in for:D

[infoxicated]

Is this region free version?
I assume you're asking to find out if folk with disks from different regions will be able to play each other?

If so, the answer is yes. :+

[borell]

Great news, Rob! Finally I will be able to play against Mr. Smith and Mr. Lee. ;)

[Sausehuhn]

Great news indeed, Rob.
Thanks for that info :)

[Lance]

At long last, the right way. :)

[G'Kyl]

I hope Zone mode has more interesting tracks in Pulse as opposed to the colourful but unexciting ones we had in Pure.

Good god! I absolutely love the design of Pure's Zone tracks! :) I wish had had some downloadable Zone content for Pure, but maybe there's going to be more tracks in Pulse...

Ben

[Sausehuhn]

Nice to see you here again, Ben :)

In terms of the new Zone mode: are we allowed to talk about the infos we got in Amsterdam?

[Asayyeah]

ermmm Max :g
infos from Amsterdam, ahhh you mean when you were drunk and hear some voices from outerspace :beer
;)

Rob & Colin are the bosses :)

[q_dmc12]

OOOH!:o You guys got an exclusive!! - rat 84573rds ;)

Though it servers me right for not being there:rolleyes:

Any chance you missed some of the info when editing the videos?:sonar

[Asayyeah]

84573rds
yeah! finally the lessons you teached me last year about leet have paid !!
i guess it's the famous Stin's word when i kick his arse on Kai ;)

about video I have to auto-censured me : due to ESRB Content rating :D

[Sausehuhn]

I think you missed at least one small info in the videos. Nothing big though.
And I also could be wrong about that.

[stin]

When Pulse comes along, then download packs and will it be free? or will we have to pay download packs?

stevie:)

[Angryman]

I dont know if this has been posted yet. apologies if it has.

New Interview with one of the designers of the game.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=75937


sounding better and better.

[Rapier Racer]

I got the impression that we will have to pay for the download packs Stin, Pure was like the testing. Well testing is over downloading extra content was a success and it looks like it is still a success when there is a charge which was probably the plan from the off. I am not complaining about it if they keep churning out new tracks I'll happily pay up to get them I only have 2 issues.

1) If I pay for a download pack I expect it to work FULLY online and offline for as long as I own a PSP and a copy of the game in question.

2) It could create a divide between people who can afford to or are willing to pay for extra stuff and people who cannot or are not. This can cause a problem online with some players missing tracks or ships.

[Asayyeah]

I don't think so about Pulse, RR.
We will have to pay 50 euros here for the UMD game and i don't think people are up to invest more than that psychological price even with new addons.

But... if they plan to release that game through online mode in the future ( you will have to DL it and not having any kind of UMDs) the price will be divived by 2 and then i am nothing wrong to pay extra DL stuff like new tracks , musics, ships etc... to have roughly the same or less 50 euros at the end.

[q_dmc12]

but I don't want to upgrade just to download the iso (or whatever the filetype is going to be):cold

[Turbovec]

Hi there, first time poster.... ;) I was wondering, does the 24 tracks include the reverse tracks as well? Or are there 24 seperate tracks, with 2 versions making for 48 tracks? I mean 48 tracks would be really awesome, but just 12 tracks with reverse for 24 would be kinda lame. Does anyone share this concern as well?

[Sausehuhn]

12 tracks + reverse.

Though not every reverse track is the original track just raced backwards as already said here (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61923&postcount=18) :)

[Asayyeah]

hmmmm 12 at launch possibly but more with DL contents, isn't it Colin?

[Colin Berry]

Yes 12 at launch with more to follow via download (at least 4)

Each of the 12 has a 'reverse' version

more details will be following in the coming weeks I am fairly sure

:)

[Dav657]

Hey this is a game where i can finally catch up to the rest of you so i wont be left behind this time! YEA:+:D

The point of paying extra content is no problem in my book. The only difficult point I see is people without the content, and paying for extra stuff off my PSP. Hopefully I can download it on my home pc then later transfer it to my psp. Just don't feel safe i guess. Also I don't feel like typing in all that personal info from my psp. That would take to long.

[Asayyeah]

At least 16 tracks with reverse option : sounds very exciting:hyper , thx for that info :+

[Turbovec]

Thanks for answering my question guys, I really appreciate it. Also, Colin, I think its incredibly awesome that someone as high up within the design team is this involved with the community. Talk about listening to the fans. Its stuff like this that makes me love the Wipeout series, even though I'll admit, Pure was my first one. :guitar

[Rapier Racer]

I think 12 tracks at launch with the reverse option is great with more to come later? Super :D

[RJ O'Connell]

How long do you think it will be until all the teams are confirmed?

[Rapier Racer]

Have a look about the forum they've practically confirmed most of the teams already, I believe the 8 original teams from Pure are in, yes thats right Harimau are in it lol, I don't remember about Icaras but it is what we would consider a veteran team so I would guess yes to Icaras and Goteki and don't forget the 2 new teams

[Colin Berry]

BEEP

Try again

:p

There are 12 teams, but 4 are download - revealed very soon I'd imagine

[Rapier Racer]

Assegai
AG-S
Feisar
Qirex
Goteki
Icaras
Triakis
Harimau
Piranha
Auricom
EGX
and whats its face Mirrage?

Thats enough thinking for one half hour period

[RJ O'Connell]

We've seen screenies of:

FEISAR
AG Systems
Auricom
Piranha A
Assegai
Triakis
EG-X
Mirage

Mentioned by Colin, but not seen are:

Qirex-RD
Harimau (download)

Pure download teams are up for grabs as we have:

Goteki 45
Icaras
Van Uber
Tigron

And then there's the possibility of new outfits altogether - although I think Van Uber and Icaras will be the last two ships. (Colin, if I'm right here just PM me rather than have all the info leaked.)

12 teams, 12 ships, 12 years after the first game...12 is becoming a lucky number for Pulse XD

[Sausehuhn]

...and 12 weapons and 12 tracks (we don't count the reverse and downloadable here ;) )

[RJ O'Connell]

September 12th release would be appropriate, I assume?

[Task]

Nah, December 12th would be appropriate. (12/12/07) 8 )

[q_dmc12]

September 9th? (1995:D)

[Lance]

And September 9th, 1999 was the day Wipeout 3 was released in the U.S.
uh... I think.

Oddly enough, that was also the day the Dreamcast was released in the U.S.

I got both of them in March, 2000, just shortly after I bought my PSX, and got into videogames, which is why I was aware of the dates. [Late bloomer, yes, I know.]

[q_dmc12]

I feel sorry that you missed-out on Pong;)

[Lance]

I don't. :D

[exarkann]

a soundtrack concern.

i realize that the full soundtrack prolly wont be announced for some time, but we do know that Mason - Exceeder will be on it.

i sit here, listening to the original mix of the song, and while it is excellent, both in production and musically, i cant help but think that it is a little... houseish. not quite fast enough for a wipeout title.

i wonder if the whole soundtrack is gonna be... houseish.

[Rapier Racer]

Doesn't matter does it you can turn the lot off and use past game soundtracks :D

[q_dmc12]

some ambient and trance would be nice - helps me get into the zone. Some of the stuff in the past was just too busy for my tastes - sounds, beeps and breaks everywhere..yuck!:blarg

Music needs to be organized - y'know?

[soci]

I say as long as the reverse tracks aren't requisites for completing anything, and are just there for fun, I'm cool with it.

[CR4SH3D]

reverse tracks can work sometimes and if they do it will be pretty cool

regarding music also
i havent listened to that "house" track, but after seeing the initial teaser trailer i was REALLY hoping the soundtrack would be similar to the song featured on that, super fast and awesome dnb (which i think could work well)!

(does anyone know what that was?)

[stin]

Got one question though, When Pulse comes out and what is the minimum Firmware? , Because, I just want to protect my Pure`s games.

stevie

[Frances_Penfold]

^^
That's a good question, and something I'm worried about as well. In general I don't mind upgrading the PSP firmware but if it makes Pure glitchy, well, that'd be a hard choice. Maybe newer firmware versions will allow full functioning of Pure :D

Speaking of downloadable content, I don't mind paying for the stuff but I really hope that it won't require a PS3 connection! I'm a handheld gamer and as cool as the PS3 is, I won't be buying it anytime soon. (Just worried about this because PSP downloads STILL aren't available directly to the PSP but instead require the PS3 connection.)

Very very much lookiing forward to Pulse.

[Rapier Racer]

I don't think anyone is going to bother much about Pure when Pulse comes along

[supersocks]

Love your sarcasm, Rapier Racer ;)

[infoxicated]

I don't think anyone is going to bother much about Pure when Pulse comes along
Personally, I wont go back to Pure at all when Pulse comes out. I could live with the dynamics in Pure, but I couldn't love them. Coupled with the agonisingly slow acceleration and I just found the game frustrating rather than fun.

Plus, the fact that my UMD for Pure is broken kind of means there's no way back for me! ;)

[stin]

Meaning, you struggled to pass Flashy class!:p

stevie:D

[RJ O'Connell]

Flashy class was no problem for me. Flashier class, OTOH...

Yeah, I doubt a return to Pure can be seen in the forseeable future for me too. And I only have to mention Medievil or any other stupid promo craft to remind myself why.

[Asayyeah]

i ll be glad to make a special antique Kai pure multiplayer sessions with old mates in the future. Not only to compare the noticable upgrades pulse is concerned but remember we were like pioneers at that time :banzai

[mclarensmps]

The only thing that concerns me at this point is the OST of the game. A couple of tracks are great, but the electro/DnB I will not be able to cope with. The great thing, though, is personalized mp3 sound tracks so that point is pretty moot. (I'm actually thinking of scoring up my very own WO OST for Pulse, but I will wait for more images/videos so I can get myself in the mood and zone of the game - personal projects ftw).

The return of Qirex is totally for the love :D. The Qirex, though a tank, was a beautiful looking ship, looks like I'm gonna go back to being a tank driver.

Also, interweb multiplayer is excellent, now I have to force myself to buy a wireless router, but ergghhh I hate them so much!

[q_dmc12]

the future is wireless man8)

[Chill]

Personally, I wont go back to Pure at all when Pulse comes out. I could live with the dynamics in Pure, but I couldn't love them. Coupled with the agonisingly slow acceleration and I just found the game frustrating rather than fun.

Totally agreed, It'll just be like Fusion for me. Up on the shelf all dusty with my memory card, I mastered it, now I don't wan't to see it again!!! (Except for Zone mode, LOL!!!)

[RJ O'Connell]

(Pure) will just be like Fusion for me. Up on the shelf all dusty with my memory card, I mastered it, now I don't wan't to see it again!
Hey, I just busted out Fusion - along with all the other old games recently. What wasted potential...T_T

[Dogg Thang]

Well I still love Pure. Like the first three games, I can see me going back to it over and over again regardless of how good Pulse might be.

[stin]

Amen to that and I still play pure.....weeeeell Original WipEout!:paperbag

stevie:D

[zargz]

The magnetic sections in fusion really sucked ..
let's see how they gonna be in pulse. hoping for the best.

[Dogg Thang]

They did and they're one of the reasons I really didn't like Fusion but the thinking seems different for Pulse and, as long as they're used really sparingly on just a percentage of the tracks, I don't mind. I just don't know how much the different thinking will impact on the actual gameplay - will it amount to the same thing? I hope not.

And I don't think the team will be taking any steps backwards. Colin posted on it (I think in this thread somewhere) and really showed he knew where people were coming from in the disappointment with Fusion and wasn't out to repeat that.

More than likely they'll turn out to be great fun.

[RJ O'Connell]

Magnetic "sections" in Fusion? The whole track was a giant magnet. Hence the sticky, downforcey handling.

[zargz]

yeh, that too. What I ment was one second you are on the ground and next Baam! on the roof!! :?

[RJ O'Connell]

Ah, the flip pads at Katmoda 12.

I mean, Fusion to me had some really...interesting new things they tried and for the most part it turned to wasted potential, because a lot of it doesn't really fit in with the rest of the games.

Loops and ridiculous vertical drops are one thing. Replacing speed classes with upgrade systems and throwing in terrain sections are another thing entirely, almost like an entirely different game. And that's if you don't include the downforcey handling characteristics.

But that's just ranting about a past game, let's move on to Pulse now...

[Dr. Angryman]

Magnetic sections can be good if you add a decent bit of challenge with it. Like on Moa Therma, that huge, sideways loop looks like a straight line at first. But there is a section on it where two pieces of track meet so closely that the track indents, and thus, the track gets narrower. I would hate to be launched head-first into that peice of track. :blarg

Placement of speed-pads can also add challenge. I remember on XGRA (another futuristic game with magnetic sections) that, on one corkscrew, you had to continually alter positions to get good speed. It was quite difficult.

Thats my word. What do yo think? :)

Another little thing: I saw on Moa Therma a mag-strip that is perfectly level with the ground and undulates. Is this just to keep the ship from jumping around?

[Hybrid Divide]

Ok guys, I do know I was the one who started this thread, but most of my concerns have already proven unfounded. Feel free to let this rest at any time.

I'm already drooling over Pulse / Pure.

About the only thing I'd wish for now is to get "3...2...1... Go!" back.

[Dogg Thang]

Well it's there visually, on the video on IGN. The announcer is still just saying 'Ready, Go' but Egg said the sound is still being worked on so who knows. Maybe you'll get your final wish!

[zargz]

About the only thing I'd wish for now is to get "3...2...1... Go!" back. For me "3...2...1... Go!" especially in wo3 and SE is the Most Annoyin, Whining ang Ugly sound Thath could Ever exist!!! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/mad.gif
Every time i race TT and make a mistake somewhere and have to restart OMFG!!
I think there's not a happier wipEr than me that that's gone!
Not to speak of the times when I was playing and a gf or my mom would scream from the next room:
'Are you playing that awful game Again!!!'

And I hope it'll Never Ever come back!

[Dogg Thang]

I can't see how the repetition of 'Ready... Go!' would be all that different.

[zargz]

well, imo ofcourse .. it's not as the "3 2 1 Go!"s (wo3 & SE) eight years old little (spoiled brat :mr-t) girl pitch!
Two nights ago I was playing the CarbonisV challange and you know how hard it is to get the turbostart in wo1
so I had to restart alot and despite of the Much less annoying contdown, coz of the lower male pitch, I did have to take a break..

Another point is (right now I'm looking at the motoGP:g) - in most Real races you have red light(ready) then green light (Go)
This, to me, gives the 'Real' feeling to wipEout that we've been talking about in other threads.
Another thing I liked with Fusion (it has it moments).
Also the announcers voice is not too loud and afaics & hear, there's no sound whatsoever in motoGP and F1 starts, right?

As we're still talking about the starts, I think between Ready and Go there should be a random space of time, let's say 2-4sec.
That way, as in real life, a good start would only depend on the reaction of the racers and not of the timing imposed on you by the game.
At least this could be a feature in the Multiplayer mode! :)

[Dr. Angryman]

Come to think of it, I do notice that the "GO!" sometimes takes a bit longer in some races (or maybe it's just me, psyched out before a race.) :)

[Rapier Racer]

No it's designed like that just to make it a little harder for you to get the turbo start, I think that was the idea, it doesn't work anyhoo :p

[Dogg Thang]

I thought the timing of the Go was consistent in Pure. It definitely wasn't in Fusion. No idea about Pulse but I would have thought because they've added a visual countdown, it's unlikely that the timing fluctuates.

[DawnFireDragoon]

just been looking at some screens on ign and pulse is really really colourful, with neon in every screenshot. Not so big on the way it looks. might play good, but i'm hoping not all the tracks look like this.

[Dr. Angryman]

Personally, I'm fine with the design. I think what SL is trying to do with the design of the world is to emphasize the fact that it is after Pure. It looks more abstract and more artful, and thus, seems even more futuristic.

[Airrider]

I'm also fine with the design. Thankfully, they also apparently give you nice little text on the track that tells you where Maglock sections begin and end. So handling...I'll bet it'll be fine.

[RJ O'Connell]

We've had a lot of USA desert/canyon type tracks like Arridos IV, Anasazi, and Florion Heights.

How about one in the Sahara? (or is that coming in a download pack three weeks after the game's release?)

[Dr. Angryman]

Yeah, canyons are neat, but is anyone up for a race across the dunes or around the pyramids? ;) I've been to Egypt, and all of it, except for the hawkers, was a pretty neat experience.

What about a circuit in the clouds of one of the gas planets. Jupiter Gran Prix, anyone? ;)

[DawnFireDragoon]

Yeah, canyons are neat, but is anyone up for a race across the dunes or around the pyramids? ;) I've been to Egypt, and all of it, except for the hawkers, was a pretty neat experience.

What about a circuit in the clouds of one of the gas planets. Jupiter Gran Prix, anyone? ;)


that is an awesome idea, like Sol 2 kinda thing, held in the upper atmosphere.
Maybe one on Pluto, just because it got it's clasification as a planet taken away :(

[Mark Of Insanity]

They held the first demonstration of AG craft in the Nevada desert, maybe something there would be cool, they could mention it when describing the track in game...

I'm confident the design and neon styling will be fine if used appropriately, but for tracks in the desert, they would have to look at another way of making it seem like the future.
(How about if there were weather/time effects, in the night there could be neon lights still...?)

[Dr. Angryman]

I remember one circuit on XGRA that was on Mars. It was mostly isolated and in the desert. It was cool too, when you went to the edge of a giant canyon. You can see a far off city before you plunge straight down into the abyss! Now that's exciting! :beer

[Airrider]

XGIII had a similar one, and those tracks were positively mind-blowing.

WipEout should take a cue from those kinds of tracks, I think...

[Dr. Angryman]

Just hope they don't go to far, like that twisted, upwards hairpin and drop on the Nuclear Reactor circuit. Wild, but not WipEout.

[Airrider]

Maybe something like this track in XGIII called Atradaitoshi. It has this vertical drop and the rest of the course is full of good, fun turns but isn't too outrageous. But I will admit, there's a multiple jump section that's a piece of work to navigate.

[RJ O'Connell]

Yeah, I vividly remember Atradaitoshi. I don't think it would be too hard for FX400 craft - then again, the XGIII tracks are almost 3 times as long as the average WO track - and IMHO, 4 to 5 kilometers-length tracks at the speeds that Pulse has is just too short.

[DawnFireDragoon]

They held the first demonstration of AG craft in the Nevada desert, maybe something there would be cool, they could mention it when describing the track in game...

I'm confident the design and neon styling will be fine if used appropriately, but for tracks in the desert, they would have to look at another way of making it seem like the future.
(How about if there were weather/time effects, in the night there could be neon lights still...?)



i've always wanted either random, or the option to change the time of day and weather, like when you raced Rapier Class in Wipeout 1 and you raced in the dark, or with that beautiful colourful sky on silverstream.

Also the Extreme G games do have some truly great tracks, i remember that mars one well, it was fun...but i have to agree that they are too long for a wipeout race!

I keep making a big thing about the neon, i just hope that it isn't on ALL the tracks, i like the dark look of Wipeout, and saying all this, the neon effects look really cool (the guys that design this stuff should be proud of how well they can pull this off!) i just want a load of cool dark tracks too!

[Medusa]

Just a quick thought regarding neon signs - I think I've heard it said that neon signs are very energy-inefficient. In which case, what would neon signs be doing in the future?? Just wondering.

[Mark Of Insanity]

Well, in the future they could have probably easily surpassed the problem of them being energy inefficient, using knowledge of chemistry/technology that we haven't achieved yet... maybe...

[Dr. Angryman]

Speaking of technology, did you know that scientists have created a bacteria that oozes petroleum? They're trying to find out how to "farm" them in mass numbers to make fuel. Interesting.... ;)

[Sausehuhn]

And then again, who said it's really neon? Could be something like LED or some future-technology that does not use as much energy as neons do :)

And even though it could be energy inefficent: who cares as long as it looks cool? :beer

[Airrider]

Yeah, I vividly remember Atradaitoshi. I don't think it would be too hard for FX400 craft - then again, the XGIII tracks are almost 3 times as long as the average WO track - and IMHO, 4 to 5 kilometers-length tracks at the speeds that Pulse has is just too short.

I wanna see a track on the water, like Oceania. But not as long, like you said...

[RJ O'Connell]

Definitely not 15 kilometer marathon tracks! But having them all at least 5 would be a start.

Vineta K feels terribly claustrophobic at Phantom speeds.

[Airrider]

Why, how long is the average FX300 League track?

[RJ O'Connell]

Usually around 4.5 KM.

[zargz]

I think of the track length not in km but in sec = time.
For me a lap of 16-18 sec makes no sense at all! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/gr.gif
I'm the first to agree with many members here that the Design of the original wipEout tracks is the best.
But why is that? Well, I guess a big part of it is that it was the first ever wo I/we played but ..

if you look at the Lap Times on the tables for the two shortest circuits Terramax and KarbonisV
you'll find that the Best Lap Time for both on Rapier(the fastest class) is 36-37 sec!
Not to mention the longest tracks - AltimaVII, ArridosIV and Korodera
the Lap Time, again Rapier, is about a Minute = 60 sec!!
Silverstream and Firestar(Rapier) ~ 45-47sec.
Mind you that we are talking about the top 5 on the woz (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/records.php?game_id=11&mode_id=2&x=29&y=55&track_id=63&filter=unique&type_id=1&limit=5&action=display_records&sub_action=)!
wich will put 'normal' people :D between all from 0:50.0 to 1:15.0
For me, this(the length of a lap) is what gives a sence of a real race.

Lets see some real Best Lap Times:
F1 (http://newsonf1.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=24)
SBK (http://www.worldsbk.com/circuits.php?p_S_Campionato=SBK&p_Autodromo=LOSAI) click on each circuit on the left to see the Best Lap in the middle :)
BTCC (http://www.btcc.net/html/raceresults_detail.php?race_id=23&season_id=50) click on the track on the right, Best Lap - middle.
couldn't find equivalent for the WTCC nor motoGP :(

Heh! On the SBK page I found a real 6 laps race (http://www.worldsbk.com/result.php?p_S_Campionato=ST6&p_Anno=2007&p_Sessione=001&p_Round=CZE) for the STK600 class.
Some kind of exeption I guess - all the other races for this class are about 10 laps (http://www.worldsbk.com/result.php?p_S_Campionato=ST6&p_Anno=2007&p_Sessione=001&p_Round=NED). 8)

Now, imagine in the not so distant future (hope so!) going to an AG race.
You pay Big money, of cource, just to see the Main Feature 6 laps Phantom race.
After all the hustle flying in from another country, getting to your hotel and then to the track
you are full of expectations no doubt about it.
Race starts! After six 18sec laps = 3 min the race is Done.
Now .. go home.
wouldn't that suck??! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/lol.gif

All that said, I'm not talking about having 20-30min races in wo ..
it would be of cource a nice option to have (once I raced 20% real race in a NASCAR game
took me abot 20-30 min to complete! :D)
but a 3-4 min race (wo3se ArridosIV Rapier Single Race Lap Time ~40sec 6 laps = 4min) yeh! why not? http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/le.gif

[Dr. Angryman]

I'm sure that if WipEout was a real sport, that a day event would be a series of races in different classes. That could extend the event for about a few hours. Then there is the pre-race show, some freestyle events (for pilots to take a lap and show off), and, of course, a chance for autographs! ;)

[Riccardo Raccis]

Man, that's poetry. Couldn't say why but the part about the freestyle events was... moving.

[Colin Berry]

There are several reasons for the length of the tracks in Pure and Pulse (which are similar to Pure in length)

Some reasons are technical, longer tracks simply take up more memory due to increase in texture size / quantity and polygons etc, to retain the high quality look you have to set an upper limit and work to it. X amount of polygons in the track and environment, spread over 5km of track will look better than the same amount spread of 10km


Another reason is preference, the designers who make the tracks have preferences. Personally I like short tracks because they are easier to memorise and offer really cool opportunity for shaving corners and identifying exact spots to make up time in time trials.
I also think they can be extremely intense experiences.
My own personal belief is that longer tracks ultimately do not lend themselves as well to time trial events as shorter tracks. I am sure some people will disagree, but thats a preference. Though I think Longer tracks can make for ace race experiences.
Having said that one of the other designers has a thing for more technical tracks etc which can include longer tracks. We do try to have a balance and a range, we dont set all the tracks at 4km. Indeed in Pure including all the downloads the average length was over 5km as I recall (I think Sinucit was the longest at close to 6.5km)


Ultimately though we dont judge a track on its length or on how long it takes to do a lap, its judged on how it plays and flows and how it tests the player. we may well push the track length a little longer in some cases in future especially as technology improves it becomes a viable option, but nothing is done for the sake of it.

[zargz]

Thanks for the info Colin!
I guess Pulse is already done, designways, so there's not much to add to that.
Also I'm just now getting my psp (in two days!!!) so I'm more than exited over that!
I lost 2 wipEout years in the far east .. but I had some fun.
Anyway, I've been watching the multiplayer VDOs by members of the woz and the tracks look great, especially for multiplayer!
Also I read that the game is harder to beat than 2097 and 3! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/ok.gif
As I see it no wo game till now has had a good AI (Pures though seems better than any yet, I'll have to wait and see)
so after completing the game the most exiting part of it is the multiplayer part, that before was just competing on the time tables. :)
Seeing you are just fine tuning the last pieces, I'm guessing the chances of any major changes are .. eer .. slim to none?
Exept perhaps some minor details for the multiplayer, like .. choosing nr of laps, say up to 10? http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/slz.gif
The choosing weapons and ships we could add to the PS3 wo wishlist! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/lol.gif

Cheers! :+

[Dr. Angryman]

Also I read that the game is harder to beat than 2097 and 3! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/ok.gif


Harder than those.... Wow, now I'm really psyched about Pulse! :rock

I'm still not getting my fix of new WO information though....

(steps away from the computer and starts crying in the corner.) :(

[zargz]

eer .. I was talking about Pure .. http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/hihi.gif hihi!

Do you think it was?

[q_dmc12]

no, quite the opposite - but not by much;)

[Dogg Thang]

No, Pure wasn't harder to beat - it just takes longer due to medals being assigned to each and every race in all modes. The time trial golds were (thankfully) a challenge - whoever set those times had the good players in mind and I really appreciated that!

Interesting to hear the reasoning on the shorter tracks. From a technical point of view, I guess that makes sense, though it does seem strange sometimes that advances in the hardware seem to have brought more constraints rather than less. I guess with each new system, rather than just being able to build on what has already been achieved, you are starting from scratch again and having to build everything again.

Actually on that, I have always wondered about the screen in screen bits that were seen in the PS1 games (where you could see yourself racing as if on a huge screen in the background - like in Gare d'Europe). I've never seen that feature in any game on any system since (including the WO games). Was that a unique-to-PS1 feature?

[Dr. Angryman]

I guess with each new system, rather than just being able to build on what has already been achieved, you are starting from scratch again and having to build everything again.

BINGO! :beer If you build on what you already have, then you have an add-on. An entirely new sytem leaves unexplored ground to trek, but it's well worth it! ;)

[rageagainstgeorge]

Dogg Thang - the F1 games still do that. Neat effect I think.

[Dr. Angryman]

I think that if WipEout will have those giant televisions, it should not only show your ship, but other ships as well. That way is more realistic....

Or is it? What do you think? :?

[RJ O'Connell]

You mean, like seeing a "TV feed" of the race in those screens? Absolutely.

Also, thanks for the explanation of the short tracks. I guess since I've been playing so much WO1 and XL I'm used to slightly more spacious tracks on larger screens, making Pure feel slightly smallish....

[Mark Of Insanity]

I think they would have big TV feed screens, but near where the crowds are so that they can see what's going on when the race isn't visible at the time.

Dogg Thang - there was one other, on Megamall I recall shortly before the spiral. Still the PS1 though.

The Comment on the AI of WO games, I actually feel that WO1 has quite neat AI. If you're travelling slightly behind another racer, they'll try to block you as you try to swerve around them. Annoying, but very pleasing to see AI doing this, but I don't remember this AI tactic being used in any other WO, even Pure.

[Dr. Angryman]

I have no problem with the AI on any of the WipEouts.... Except when they use mines against me. Then I'm pissed! :bomb

[rdmx]

I watched the pulse trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5htd98vCeE
you said acceleration had improved.
I noticed that the triakis was now accelerating as fast as a pure ag-sys!:dizzy
how fast is an ag-sys?

[RJ O'Connell]

According to the preliminary ship stats, it's slower than the Goteki 45 now! And the AG Systems will be on par with EG-X, so I'm assuming all three will get to top speed in like, instantly. Can we handle that? O_O

[Mark Of Insanity]

Colin Berry said something somewhere about increasing the acceleration of ship's all around, so AG Systems will be like... :brickwall:dizzy

[RJ O'Connell]

That's a really good thing, because - well, it's been said before and I'll say it again - Pure's worst flaw is the poor acceleration after being hit by a bomb, missile, etc - coming to a dead stop and waiting three seconds (an eternity in WO time) for the ship to get going again.

I was exaggerating on the increased acceleration, I'm sure us veterans can handle the speed.

[zargz]

I watched the pulse trailer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5htd98vCeE .. how fast is an ag-sys?at the end of that trailer, there you have all the stats, just pause the movie ;)
I did it and notice that AG and Feisar have the same speed -> 7 wich seems to be the lowest.
I see now we got both "ready Go!" and "3, 2, 1, Go!" :g
the tracks look sweet! I like the virtual track too, if it is virtual that is.

[Dr. Angryman]

I like the virtual track too, if it is virtual that is.

You mean the Arc Prime reverse circuit on Zone mode?

[zargz]

http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/huh.gif!!? so this is a Pure vdo? ..
any way nice trax! :D

[benjahman]

wow thanks!!! First time I see this trailer!! The new bomb look awesome with this orbital detonator on it!!!

[Dr. Angryman]

I've been making TONS of grammatical mistakes on the forums lately.... Please forgive me! :paperbag

Anywho, I LOVE the new bomb. Instead of a hunk of beeping metal, it's a violent spinning ball of DEATH! :bomb

I also love the tail-lights on the ships, and the "boost contrails". You know, the two vapor-trails that come after a boost. Awesome. :)

[Rapier Racer]

Well actually Wipeout Pures bomb does spin and it IS violent when you hit it at phantom

Loving the music on that game play trailer sounds like Pulse soundtrack is way better than Pures, it's a shame that the Pulse soundtrack will be overlooked and unappreciated thanks to the custom music feature

[q_dmc12]

not anymore..for me anyway - I wonder if I can have the builtin soundtrack play as well as the custom rather than one or the other...?

[Medusa]

3 - 2 - 1 - GO! *Faints from the excitement*

Will it be worthy of Wipeout's heritage? Looks like it now.:D
(It takes sooo much to please me.)

[Asayyeah]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5htd98vCeE

Have you seen the barrel roll done by the guy on the 2nd set of his race. on pure those BR close to the ground couldn't gave you a boost so now it's seems yes : that's a good idea and may reduce the fracture between those who master them easily and those who have few difficulties to did them quickly