Venom Karbonis TT Challenge!

[Task]

So the little guy has taken to waking up at 3-4 AM, and then going back to sleep.
For some reason, I'm not quite managing the "back to sleep" part anywhere near as well as he is.

At the same time, I'm getting congratulations on my new Karbonis times, which is great except that I don't have any. I'm still being beaten by Lance and his FEISAR because I'm having great difficulty getting that Qirex around the track in any better time than what I've done previously in an AG Sys.

What does this add up to? If you guessed "TT Challenge!" then you're right!

Anyone can enter, the game is NTSC WO1. No set time limit, the challenge goes until everyone is bored with it and stops posting. The rules are that you post your best recent times in the usual place (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/records.php?track_id=62&mode_id=2&type_id=2&limit=5&action=display_records&sub_action=&game_id=12&x=43&y=30) and then you post something here to get me to notice your new time. Then I add you to the standings.

After getting in an AG Sys with Daniel Chang, I've done one of the best flights I can manage:


Track - Lap 1 - Lap 2 - Lap 3 - Total
Karbonis V - 44.4 - 45.5 - 45.4 - 2:15.3

Current Standings:
(standings moved to post #55)

[Lance]

What?! You finally beat my FEISAR time?
Hm.. if the mood strikes, I shall warm up my slugly beauty, in its glorious yellow and blue, and see what I can do.

My times, if any, I shall edit into this post.
Come to think of it, I was using the Sophia de la Rente [sp?] version, so it wasn't yellow and blue.

Feisar:
Best lap: 46.80
Best race: 2:22.70

[Task]

8 ) Indeed I did! I just had to get over my desire to beat my records with Qirex. Isadora and her boundless enthusiasm for AG Sys did the trick. 8 D

Sofia de la Rente is indeed Yellow/Blue. With White added in.
Paul Jackson is Red/White/Blue, very similar, but no yellow.

[Medusa]

Okay! All my times will be for AG Systems (KIT piloting under the name John Dekka...). I gave it a go today and came up with:

Race time: 2:22:0 (sorry I didn't write down each lap time. will be sure to get it next time)
Lap time: 0:46:9

Feisar's turn!
I will add any new times to this post.


Isadora and her boundless enthusiasm for AG Sys did the trick. 8 D

I do come across as a bit rabid, don't I?:D Especially considering a lot of my WO3 records entered in are Icaras records...I'll fix that sometime.

Session 2 Times:
Lap 1 - Lap 2 - Lap 3 - Total
47:1 - 47:0 - 46:5 - 2:20:6
Session 3 Times:
45:9 - 46:2 - 45:8 - 2:17:9
Session 4 Times:
45:0 - 45:5 - 45:9 - 2:16:4

[Lance]

Well, for the most part, Icaras is the way to go in WO3. Twisty courses in Phantom class offer the occasional opportunity for a great times with something else. With the original, though, I've played it almost not at all, so I've no idea what works best where.

[Medusa]

Ahem...uh, Session 3 was a good one for me.:g
I've finally got the hang of that hyperthrust start!

[Task]

Oooh! Well done! I have _such_ a hard time getting the good start.

I don't suppose you've found a good way to get it reliably besides "use an analog thrust button and hold it partway down", have you?

[Medusa]

Quote from Wipeout Guide: "...feather the thrust so that it is in the third bar from right"
ie. wear your thumb out by tapping the thrust button (I use the B button on my negcon which I believe is digital??) and about one time out of ten (Tonight I had it down to one out five, lol) you get the real, full speed at start hyperthrust.

Easier said than done!!!

I will always remember the day I got to be on top of the world wipeout record tables...on a table with only three pilots, haha!! I am really enjoying playing Wipeout. I thought it would be a "chore" (dare I call it that? NO!) after playing wip3out so much, but not so. It really does seem FAST, not just the speed but the way the tracks are laid out.

[Task]

Finally got the kid down early and put in some good WO time...

My very first run at it, I manage:
46.1 + 46.1 + 45.7 = 2:17.9

And after a couple more runs that don't surpass that I think to myself "nice run! that should be getting me close to 1st place on this track again!". Only to find out that your time is... 2:17.9! And you've got a better laptime than me! So back for a couple more runs...

45.7 + 45.9 + 45.7 = 2:17.3!

Retaking the gold!

I think you'll be keeping the lap record though, and until I pull off the turbo start that'll be the best I can likely manage on this course.

Which means it's time to have a look at some of the other times that have defeated me... 8 )

[Medusa]

Ooooh, sweet race! Three 45 second laps:o I may have to lay off my Feisar challenge a bit and give this one another effort.
Very nice, Task!

(P.S. Did you see the Rapier lap time? I beat my AG time with a Feisar so I had to go back and wear my thumb out until AG was on top again:p )

[Task]

8 D Gotta love how you can have trouble beating FEISAR times in this WO!
The speed differences tend to be nowhere near as important as the handling differences. Every single craft slides in turning, momentum carrying you a significant distance towards the edge of the track, before the accelleration of your thrusters has finally managed to change your vector.

Oh yes, I saw your lap times. Mostly I was fixated on your race times, though. Like that one for Venom Altima VII that was giving you the gold. 8 )

As soon as I've finished with the Venom times, I'll move up to the Rapier times. Then, after that, I'll see what I can do in that FEISAR challenge!

[Medusa]

Yeah, I wondered how long it would be before your Qirex took top spot again!
(It was fun while it lasted!)
I'm currently very distracted trying to come close to Asa's 2097 Talon's Reach time and my neggie is very uncooperative with the game. I'm wearing out my reset button as it develops a odd steering bug about every ten races.
This is a good time to go back to the original!!

[Lance]

Sorry, folks, I've been totally inactive on Wipeout or any other game since last I posted a time oh so long ago. [Hangs head in shame.]

[Medusa]

(That's okay Lance.I'm sure you have more important things in life to do. Me, I just ignore the more important things.)

I sat down for Session 4 today, got my time down to 2:17:8 and was really having trouble getting a boost start. I thought, my goodness, I don't think it's even possible to break a 45:6 lap time or even a 2:17:00 race time.

:o WAS I WRONG OR WHAT??
First lap - 00:45:00 Second lap - 00:45:50 Third lap - 00:45:9
Race time - 2:16:40:o :o

On the second lap I was thinking, oh my freaking AG SYS, I did a 45!
On the third lap I really could have done better controlling my craft but the whole lap I was thinking, if I don't touch those walls I'm gonna break 2:17!!!

WHOA, my eyes are sore!
(WipEout - poor eyesight one game at a time...)

[Lance]

Big congrats, Iasabel! Awesome times.

--------------

Not related to this TT challenge, but I now hold the Karbonis 5 Venom race record with a Feisar at 2:26.3.

I'm sure it won't last long now that I've drawn attention to it, and someone will beat it with an AG-Sys, but right now I'm ahead of your AG-Sys times. Actually, I should be able to beat it with a Feisar since my best lap was a 47.4 and I've done better than that on TT.

edit: make that 2:25.2
But I still haven't improved the laptime.

[Medusa]

Yes, very nice race time Lance!
(As I rush off to fix the discrepency between my TT records and SR records...determined to be Kween of Karbonis...)

Done. :8

[Lance]

Tsk. You used an AG-Sys to do it. hmf. ;)

[Medusa]

Yeppers. It's my mother ship, after all.:g
(I'd feel bad using anything else in this game to get my fastest records.)

#!!!#%
TASK! You took it away!!! (cry...)

Incredibly sweet times. I have my work cut out for me.
(The competition in this challenge may be "scarce" but it is certainly fierce!)

[Task]

... I got the turbo start.

So I'm afraid your reign as Kween o' Karbonis didn't last very long.

Sorry about that.

...

Nah, you're right, I'm not that sorry. 8 )

Edit: They're not that sweet. I mean, the inital good lap is very nice, but the follow-up laps are a bit lacking.
I was starting to do almost consistent 45 second laps when I started getting the turbo start regularly. 1/3 I'd say.
I haven't got both of them happening at the same time yet, sub 1:15 on this track is definitely possible.
You're definitely pushing me to achieve my best, so if someone's going to manage a 1:15 it'll be you before me.

[Medusa]

"your reign as Kween o' Karbonis didn't last very long" (Quick, put down the rebels, lol!)
I will be back at work to Karbonis soon, hopefully the turbo fairy will be smiling on me! Will take a lot of fairy dust for me to beat your time, methinks.

(Speaking of the turbo fairy, she gave me FOUR turbos on Talon's Reach the other day and I just couldn't handle the little FEISAR!grrr.)

[Task]

Hmm, I just noticed that the 3 of us are responsible for all the recent updates. Almost all of it Karbonis updates. In the past 6 hours.

Way to take the home page! 8 )

Obviously we're all having a great time with this little competition.

You're working the FEISAR time closer and closer to the Kween and I there Lance. A 2:20 is more than I thought was possible for the Euros. If you ever get to a state that you don't call "totally inactive" I might get worried about that FEISAR in my rear-view.

[Lance]

Feisar can do better than 2:20 and faster than 46.2; I just haven't got there yet; I made substantial mistakes during all my times. One time I was on track for a 2:18+, but screwed up badly on the last lap.

This is definitely a fun competition. :)

I hadn't touched the controller for many days, and when I did those times last night, I had a cold; had to hit reset so many times because I kept sneezing during the start. But I bet I would not have done as well if I'd been healthy. This racing thing is an odd thing. So often my best piloting is done when I'm drunk or very tired or otherwise not in top form mentally.

Maybe it even helps that I'm getting so old. That would be odd, indeed.

[Medusa]

I had coffee with the turbo fairy today. It was great. I turboed my brains out for two hours, beat Task's time with a 2:16:1 and managed to tie the lap time and thought, what the!! I can do better than this, I know it! I just had coffee with the turbo fairy!!:D

So here it is. Session 5? Times:

43:8 - 46:6 - 44:6 - 2:15:0

I am now positioning my dented crown atop my head. Queen again. For now.

"This racing thing is an odd thing. So often my best piloting is done when I'm drunk or very tired or otherwise not in top form mentally."

I don't think I could ever claim to be in top form mentally, lol! Not now! After all not everyone believes in the turbo fairy. I used to read intelligent books - now I just play video games like an uneducated delinquent. Of course that was sarcasm.;)

[Task]

Wow. 43.8 lap time.
I knew it was there and that you'd do it first, but you could obviously take at least another 2 seconds off that. So a 2:13 can be beaten!

Theoretically.

Well, probably not by me anytime too soon, but I'll see what I can do. 8 )

[Medusa]

Yeah, I'm pretty well convinced a 2:13 time would be the limit on this track. The way the turbo use works out, at absolute perfection I think someone could (theoretically;) ) get a 43:8 at the first, then a 45 in the middle to save last 2 turbos for a 44 end lap. Which would be 2:12:8. Yikes. That is a very scary thought.

[Lance]

I wonder if my Qirex skills [if I still have them, since that was 2.5 years ago] from the lower speed classes of XL would be transferrable to the original; are the tracks too different from XL to allow Qirex to do as well as more manoeuverable beasties? I'm thinking that Karbonis V would be a nightmare for Qirex pilots.

[Medusa]

I'm pretty sure the Qirex could hold its own on a few of the straighter courses, especially Altima. It has the worst thrust and turning ability of all the 3600 craft, yet the highest speed. I don't dare try it on Karbonis as there are too many jumps and turns. But hey, you don't know until you try!

[Task]

I've tried, I might be able to tell you.

The WO Qirex is the strangest to drive of all craft in all WO's. Except perhaps the Assegai. But they're on completely opposite ends of the "strange" spectrum.

The inertia is massive, so you have to turn your craft way before the actual turn and as long as you're on Venom you'll likely actually make the turn. But you lose a lot of speed doing this, since most of your thrust is busy fighting your momentum.

There are two ways to drive it.
One is via "oversteer": Turn more than you need to, use your thrust to stop you from sliding into the wall, and then turn back when you've passed the apex.
The other way is all airbrake. I think this way is better, but it's a tough craft to fly, so I have trouble making a good qualitative analysis.

Like the lady says, it's amazing on the straight tracks, but killer on the curves. Great top-end speed, and I've tried it on Karbonis, but I can't keep the speed up. Perfect laps I can do, but they're slower than an AG Sys.

[Lance]

I'll have to try it sometime. So far, I don't save any of my times but those made with Feisar, no spare memory cards. I'm missing one and haven't found it yet. It's probably full anyway. What little experience I have with the AG-Sys on 'Original' tells me I could beat my Feisar times with it. I've not used Auricom at all, and tried Qirex only once for a few minutes on Altima, when I crashed repeatedly. :eyeroll, second level:

[Medusa]

I don't know if Task has also found this, but ALL of my WipEout original data saves on to one block of my memory card. Nice, especially when Wo3 takes about seven blocks! So hopefully you wouldn't have to make too much room anyways.

P.S. Anybody seen the WO PAL records for Karbonis? We're all (all 3 of us!) many seconds ahead of the euro team!

NAWTY! - North American WipEout Team - Yikes!

My what a little competition can do.

[Task]

8 D
<singing>
We're NAWTY, but we're nice!
On Silverstream, made of ice!
</singing>

Yeah, WO only takes a single block, it's pretty sweet that way.
As long as you've got another block, you can make another save file!
One file for FEISAR is a good idea, because you can take that file and copy it into another one for AG Sys. And see if you can beat the times. Then copy it again for Auricom. Lastly for Qirex. Auricom is ridiculously similar to Qirex, it's more "Qirex-lite" than anything. Not quite as fast, not quite as ponderous, it's only purpose is for Qirex training. Start FEISAR, move to AG Sys when you've got that handled, move to Auricom when you need more speed, and as soon as you've got Auricom handled move to Qirex and abandon the Auricom forever.

Interesting idea.

[Lance]

My memory cards are full. I would have to remove something. Always a difficult project, choosing what I need least.

----------

Tried both Qirex and Auricom on Karbonis last night. My goodness, the tails do slide wide. Couldn't even approach my Feisar and AG-S times. Will need much more practice, but I suspect they will never hold the best record on this course.

[RJ O'Connell]

First Attempt:

NTSC A - John Dekka - AG Systems - Dual Shock

Lap 1: 0:45.0
Lap 2: 0:46.2
Lap 3: 0:45.3

Total: 2:16.5

[Task]

Welcome onboard Rory, that's a fantastic first attempt.

I notice that I've dropped considerably in many places on the record tables due to both you and Isadora. Nice times, the both of you!

I managed to get some more flight time in, but I've lost what earlier grip I thought I'd gained on that highly elusive (pipsquack!) turbostart. Fortunately though, I've gained some frighteningly good 2nd and 3rd lap abilities. I can almost do constant 45 second laps. Now all I have to do is combine that with a 44 second turbostart 1st lap and I've got it made!

Yeah, that'll happen any moment now. Wait for it... 8 P

[Medusa]

Yes nice start Rory! More contenders means oh so much more stress...:g

Awesome SR lap time on Karbonis, Task! Very sweet! I was checking twice to make sure I read it right!
And 2:15:9 for the TT race time....phew, I'm starting to feel threatened:D I think I'll put off working on the other tracks again until I can nail Karbonis down with all I've got-hmm, may take awhile!

[Task]

8 ) Yes, those are my new Venom SR times.

I won't tell you what I did for the Turbo Fairy, but I can tell you this: She really, really liked it.

[Medusa]

Oooohhhhh, now that's NAWTY! lOL groan lol!
(I had a feeling the turbo fairy was headed east...)

[Lance]

Congrats on all the great times. :)

No, I've not forgotten about the challenge. I still want to get my Feisar times down below 46 lap and 2:20 race. Maybe I'll even try AG-S to see if I can compete with you guys. I'm sure you are not holding your breath awaiting the next time I actually do a racing session; this is good. No telling how long it will be till I do.

[Medusa]

Thank god! I thought you were posting times Lance when I saw the new post here. Task's 2:14 sr race time has scared the --- out of me, I'm waiting for that 2:12:8 to show up in the TT!:D If it's possible...

(Task, I got the lap time:g but that is one heck of a race time...HARHARHAR, I finally got the magic 43-45-44 second combination, albeit in SR...now off to those Rapier TTs)

[lunar]

I love this game so much I had to get another version. Here`s my entry, with a real NTSC PS1 (straight from Syracuse for $20) And a long box NTSC WipEout for just $5 :)

AG Systems, John Dekka, Lap 43.50, Race 2.13.60.

NTSC version of this game is superior, imo, because:

- there`s no "Chemical Beats", probably the most unsuitable, irritating and concentration killing piece of WipEout music ever. The loss of "Afro-Ride" is not so good as that`s a champion track, but just Cold Storage = bliss.

- NTSC version is smoother and faster than PAL

- you don`t bottom out as much. Some of the impossibly bumpy sections on Venom are much smoother on NTSC.

- the timing of the turbo start is different on NTSC, but it`s a lot easier to get.

- there`s a little "loading" graphic for all the times when things go very still and quiet on the PAL version.

[Task]

With a spankingly good time, to boot!

So tell us, where did you find the second-and-a-half to take off the time there? I suspect I know the answer, but I anxiously await your tale of tribulation and triumph!

[lunar]

Sorry for what could be a messy reply, but I`m about to go out for a few days! :)

I was kind of stuck on 45 second laps, and times of 2.15.XX - 2.16 , until I started doing a few things differently.

- I always turbo on the long back straight. Instead of doing it as soon as I see daylight out of the chicane beforehand, I waited until I was on the deactivated speed pads just before the track straightens. I think, this way, there is less turbo energy lost in turning onto the straight.

- I nosed down at the final uphill bit before the big drop, in the tunnel. You really lose speed here, and nosing down seemed it might have helped a bit. Not sure.

- Get almost every speed pad - especially the tricky double at the bottom of the big descent. Pitch up is needed on this I think, but only a bit.

- The speed pads in the final esses..... the first one after the jump I don`t worry about too much. I just pass over the left side of it, but it`s more important to land smoothly and get a good line. The next one I ignore completely as it`s too far off the best place to be. The last one at the end of the esses is vital though, I think. I think you need a good boost from this to get you around the last corner without losing too much speed.

[Medusa]

:o Awesome time Lunar!!

(I'm not even bitter this time;) ) I am amazed at the time! (Does a sub 2:13 time cometh??? cue organ music...) Good work!
By long back straight do you mean the straight which goes into the tunnel?

Welcome to the new contender! Err, champion!

[RJ O'Connell]

I know what I'm doing in roughly an hour...and that's trying to keep myself in a podium position...O_o

[RJ O'Connell]

Run #2

AG Systems / John Dekka / NTSC / DualShock 2

Lap 1: 0.43.4
Lap 2: 0.45.1
Lap 3: 0.45.0

Total Time: 2.13.5

WE HAVE A NEW LEADER!!!!

[Medusa]

oooohhhh...nice.

My self-esteem is shot - all that time just to get a measly 2:15, and you break 2:14 in your second run!

My WipEout is definitely coming out again now.

[RJ O'Connell]

As a WipEout F3600 specialist, I must say getting a turbo start at Venom level with the AG-Systems craft is like threading a needle during a 9.5 earthquake... X_X

[Medusa]

So I swapped XL for the original today, plugged in my best negcon, and remapped the buttons to what I was using on XL - A thrust and B fire. After a few 2:14's right off the bat with this mapping I got:

43:8 - 45:1 - 44:3 = 2:13:2

And then I thought, I want my lap record back too!:D :D

Here it is. The sub-2:13 race time.:D

45 flat - 43:1- 44:6 = 2:12:7

And I thought 2:12:8 would be the limit.:D

(Turbo starts are a lot easier for me using my thumb tip for thrust instead of knuckle. Big difference in that. Raced the same as always except I used no pitch control on the two splits, and at the sharp turn - speed combination right after the second split.)

Grinning a little too much today, now.

[lunar]

wow Medusa great time, you deserve that grin, and great races from both you and RJ. :banzai By "back straight" I mean the long straight after you`ve been through the tunnel, down the hill, through the next few S bends and then the straight that leads to the first track split. That`s where I use my turbos, but looking at your times I think you must be using the start finish straight, but probably not on the last lap?

[RJ O'Connell]

I'm using mine on all three laps on that back straight lunar.

This frustration I'm having with the turbo starts is making me crave my own Neggie right about now >____<;;

[Medusa]

I usually used the turbo only on the straight leading into the tunnel, but on the 2:12:7 race I saved the turbo from lap 1 until RIGHT at the start line, then lap 2's turbo in the tunnel, and lap 3's there as well. Everything just came together nicely. I cut the corners so fine that I thought I would hit for sure on many of them.

[Task]

Nice! I'm definitely considering pulling out my own neggie and seeing if I can get my hands "used to it" like I've heard can be done. Perhaps if I just push through the pain of the first half-hour I can emerge triumphant in the land of perfect thrust and nose control...

[lunar]

New times from across the pond :)

AGS, John Dekka. Lap: 43.1, Race: 2.11.6

I think I have worked out the secret of 100% turbo starts, but I`ll have to work out how to describe it. It`s a bit complicated to put into words... :blarg

[Task]

AGS, John Dekka. Lap: 43.1, Race: 2.11.6Bwuh?

I knew a 2:12 was possible, but a 2:11?!?

So I sat down with my Neggie, and for a while it was all awesomeness... No carpal, just me getting used to the 120' max lock and flying nicer and nicer lines. And then after 5 races I had to put it down, shooting pains up the middle of the hand. Argh! That analog thrust button is perfect for the easily-repeatable turbostarts, but I'll never get anywhere on 15 minutes of play at a time. *sigh*

Back with the d-pad, I managed the turbostart (on the one, just as you say lunar) and flew a near perfect race. As far as I can tell, my absolute best effort would be 44.0 + 45.0 + 45.0 = 2:14.0, so you have _got_ to tell me how you're managing a 43.1 + 44.3 + 44.2 = 2:11.6, because you're pretty much saving a whole second off each lap on me! I seem to be at where you were a couple days back, from what you're saying.


- I always turbo on the long back straight. Instead of doing it as soon as I see daylight out of the chicane beforehand, I waited until I was on the deactivated speed pads just before the track straightens. I think, this way, there is less turbo energy lost in turning onto the straight. Interesting. I've always turboed at the halfway point, the long straight with the two gaps. I tried tuboing before the finish line (which is where it sounds like you're triggering, right after the final corner) but that didn't change my times any.


- I nosed down at the final uphill bit before the big drop, in the tunnel. You really lose speed here, and nosing down seemed it might have helped a bit. Not sure.Oh, absolutely. I've always used serious nose control at the top of that rise. I'm doing a hard down-left right there, sticking to the inside wall and turning tight into the next boost pad. Best way to do that corner, AFAIK.


- Get almost every speed pad - especially the tricky double at the bottom of the big descent. Pitch up is needed on this I think, but only a bit. The only one I'm in a habit of missing is the first one on the first lap, I can't snag that one with the boost start going. The one on the inside after the 90 at the halfway point is tricky, but I tend to snag it. The double at the bottom of the hill is no problem, but yes, I do use some definite nose up-left there.


- The speed pads in the final esses..... the first one after the jump I don`t worry about too much. I just pass over the left side of it, but it`s more important to land smoothly and get a good line. The next one I ignore completely as it`s too far off the best place to be. The last one at the end of the esses is vital though, I think. I think you need a good boost from this to get you around the last corner without losing too much speed.I always grab that one, but it's tough to approach correctly. Start from the middle-right of the track, and turn left before you hit it. When you pass over it, your nose should be pointed down the chicane. Gives a nice boost through the first two curves till you get to the next boost pad. A similar technique has held me in good stead for the last two as well, which I always go for.

So I can see three places I could be losing this second per lap:
1) My landings have always sucked. If there's a possibility of bouncing on a landing, you can bet I'm going to do it. I've never picked up the knack of a smooth landing. I'm sure this costs me something, but since I've never seen a smooth landing I can't say what.
2) I rarely go over the middle of the boost pads, generally I'm passing over the edge, drawing my line tight as I can. If I'm not getting "the full boost" somehow... I kinda doubt it, but I've always wondered.
3) As always, where I'm using my turbo could be the issue. Over the finish line is fine, but there's two turns before you start going uphill towards the tunnel, and I've lost the boost by then, so perhaps that's why it's no better for me than using it on the broken straight. Still, that can only be where you trigger your first two turbos, since your last turbo is better used elsewhere.

Sounds like I have to go do some experimenting...

[Task]

Experiment Status: Success!

I've tried out using my turbo across the finish line, and I quickly took a whole second off my race time! Not my lap time mind, but my race time. So it looks like you've definitely got something there.

Daniel Chang and his AG Sys can now manage:


Track - Lap 1 - Lap 2 - Lap 3 - Total
Karbonis V - 44.8 - 44.3 - 44.8 - 2:13.9

I might see myself getting down to a 2:12.X this way. Time will tell...

Current Standings Moved: http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64048&postcount=112

[lunar]

Sorry about your hands, Task. I don`t think I would enjoy this game without my neggie. :frown: Maybe you should try setting your negcon twist lower. I use 54. You won`t have to twist so far, and I think this is the best number for AGS venom on Pal, and seems to work ok on NTSC. 54, for me, is just at the balance point between the ship being too twitchy, losing the analogue feel, and not turning sharply enough. I think every ship needs its own setting at both speeds. On Qirex venom I go down to 14, but that`s the lowest.

I was also using turbo on the long straight with the splits. I think this is still the best place for a heavy ship, as they lose a lot of speed on the previous section, but an AGS comes onto that straight quite smartly, so the turbo can be better used elsewhere I think.

On the first lap of the race I don`t think it matters too much to miss the first speed pad, the one in an inconvenient location, on the left after turn 1. You are still under mega-thrust, and a neat racing line may be just as quick. I`ve had 43 second first laps without this pad. On every other lap you need this pad though.

The speed pad after the Buddhas is quite important I agree. As you say it`s hard to tell if you`re getting full boost passing over the left side of it, but it seems to work sometimes. I still don`t like the next one, on the left in the corkscrew bit. It messes you up for what I think is the best turbo strategy, for this class/ship at least: As soon as you are out of the second-last corner, the left hander at the end of the corkscrew, make sure you can see the route to the next turn and hit your turbo as soon as possible. I haven`t yet worked out the best way to take this second-last turn, with this strategy. Sometimes I take the speed pad on the right, but it might be quicker to take that turn much tighter, miss the speed pad, and possibly fire your turbo a bit sooner.

Anyway, after firing the turbo get very tight to the apex of the last turn, and you can keep the momentum well into the next lap. You have to get the tricky speed pad after turn 1 to keep it going, but this is easier than on lap 1. Sometimes, if the line isn`t the best, after using the turbo you bounce around the last corner, so pitch up could help, but could also kill your momentum or make it hard to get round the final corner with enough speed. If you have to brake or release thrust anywhere in the race you are dead, so a few runs went wrong on this turn – such as the one where I got a 43.1 first lap. My best race time was with a mid 43 first lap, I think, so I reckon close to 2.11 is possible, or even a high 2.10, if we are patient enough to keep trying!

Strangely, I`m finding pitch control to be less and less important with AGS, certainly compared to when flying an Auricom or Qirex. It`s vital on the turn out of the tunnel and down the hill, as you say, but on the tricky turn at the end of the broken straight I find you can avoid bouncing on the landing by turning wider and later for the speed pad, but you`ll bounce if you take it tightly. Pitching here just seems to mess an AGS up, sometimes.

my, what a long post! ;)

[Medusa]

Greeaat race lunar!!
Thanks for the description! I agree about the pitch control for AGS, I was over controlling this ship before.

Task - You are king with the d-pad. 2:14! Good job! My hands hurt a little when starting on the neggie, but I play guitar anyways so have fairly strong hands - strength training = barre chords:D

(Not so bad there with the dpad either RJ...I kinda forgot your 2:13 for a bit, like Task did (Above).

But I can do better...
after several 2:11:9 races and a 2:11:7, I have done it. (Oh, and took back the lap record too - 42:8...grin)

43:5 - 43:8 - 44:0 = 2:11:3

Just re-Queened the pawn...

[lunar]

Well done, very very good precise racing - that turbo strategy is good, isn`t it? :) I`m not at all surprised though - it`s hard to keep the Karbonis Queen down :o ;)

[Medusa]

Yes, thanks Lunar - I have a particular attachment to this track, it is just so smooth when all is right. I only like Portokora more than this.
I was torn between turboing on the start grid and in the tunnel - as those two places are the only ones where thrust lets down for any length of time. But you are right, for a top race time the turboes must be used on the grid. I don't turbo over the splits because it seems like too much time is wasted with the extra bouncing.
(I used first two turbos on the starting grid, and of course the last one in the tunnel.:D )

[Task]

Not so bad there with the dpad either RJ...I kinda forgot your 2:13 for a bit, like Task did (Above)
RJOC does have a nice time, but it's not entered in the tables! That's the only real rule to the whole challenge. So you see, _I_ wasn't the one that forgot something... 8 )

Rory: Your new times need to be in the tables to get a beter ranking in the standings!

Besides that though... 44.0 as your slowest lap. That's .2 better than my best ever lap! 8 O

I fear you two are just leaving the rest of us in the dust! 8 D


Sorry about your hands, Task. I don`t think I would enjoy this game without my neggie. :frown: Maybe you should try setting your negcon twist lower. I use 54.

Eh, I do a lot with these hands, literally cannot afford to break them. Luckily I'm happy with the d-pad. 8 )
I tried setting the twist at 90 just before my session yesterday, and it was too twitchy. I couldn't get the smooth slight cornering. So I went back to the 120 I'd set the last time I'd used it. It's not the twist that gets to me, it's the thumb positioning for the analog buttons and the finger for the airbrake and the other fingers to hold that damn <opposite-of-ergonomic> device.

[RJ O'Connell]

Fine. RJ is updated on the board, currently on pace for a bronze medal.

I've had a rather rough day at "work" so I don't think my mind is right at the moment to try and bust any records.

[q_dmc12]

Damn Lance, You are quick:banzai

Feisar (Sofia De La Rente)

Lap 1: 00:50.3
Lap 2: 00:48.9
Lap 3: 00:48.8 :)

Total: 02:28.0

[lunar]

Welcome to the Karbo challenge Ben.

Times update, Daniel Chang`s AGS this time:

Race: 2.11.2, Lap: 42.9.

[Medusa]

Ooohhh. That was a fast reply. Good job:clap

I've got my work cut out - I'm already overdosing on Karbonis;)
Did you get the new lap record on the same race as the new race record? Just wondering.

Welcome to the challenge q_dmc12! As you can see it is approaching nearly inhuman proportions with regard to absolute control:p

[Lance]

Damn Lance, You are quick:banzai

Feisar (Sofia De La Rente)

Lap 1: 00:50.3
Lap 2: 00:48.9
Lap 3: 00:48.8 :)

Total: 02:28.0

My stubborn loyalty to Feisar is leaving me smothered in AG-S dust, but it has its intangible rewards. I should get back into this thing; been totally inactive too long.

I'm fairly good on slower classes, but I tire out too quick on the fast ones, and have just never explored them much.

{Sigh, I will always wonder what I would have been able to do if there had been videogames when I was younger. Who knows, I might have been able to keep up with Arnaud and Al and all you dang young whippersnappers. Oh, well, it's pretty cool to play anyway. :) }

[q_dmc12]

**OFF TOPIC** At least you had pinball ;) **OFF TOPIC**

[lunar]

I'm already overdosing on Karbonis


Same here - I need to get on the other tracks! I`ve only ever had one go on Firestar, which has to change. Anyway, my 42.9 lap was on a different race. I got that on a few races, but couldn`t quite put the whole thing together, and got a 2.11.5, 2.11.4, 2.11.3, twice, and at this point did consider proposing that we call it a tie, or at least a truce, for now. ;)

[Task]

Yes, I'm sure she'll be happy to call it off while you're winning by a mere tenth. 8 )

Does this mean we've found the maximum for Karbonis? We can't beat a 2:11.2? There's no 2:11.0 or even 2:11.1 out there? The way you two have been going at that limit, I'm almost expecting a 2:10.X to be posted! 8 D

I'm certainly planning on taking a couple runs on a couple other tracks, Medusa and Rory have gone and taken all my records away. 8 P

[Medusa]

I am not feeling well today, had to call in sick from work. And then saw my time was beaten. Did not make me feel better:p

...later that day, the Kween gathered up all her force and made her final assault on Karbonis V...;)

I matched my 2:11:3 and then had very dismal races one after the other, totally out of the groove. But I have been pushed to my absolute limit on this track, and hopefully it is enough to retain the record. If someone breaks it I will likely have a heart attack and resign myself to playing Pure:naughty

43:4 - 44:1 - 43:3 = 2:10:8 ;););)8):banzai

[lunar]

that is a stonkingly fast race :clap:clap:clap

that last lap is an absolute belter. My very short lived new record was 43.2 + 44.0 + 44.0, but I really can`t get last laps under 43.8, so I`m kind of stuck until I get a new idea for this track and a big slice of luck. Bloody hell..... I`m going to race Firestar for a bit...... Congratulations. :cake :)

[Medusa]

Thanks! I must warn you I will likely not put up any kind of defense of my other times. You'll probably have to fight with Jay over the others:p

BTW I didn't have any kind of Eureka moment, same as I race it always. The big problem is total consistency with not bouncing on this track, and always getting the same line lap after lap, always dangerously close to the inside wall. I was thinking about lowering my SR times on this track...but I just don't think I can handle any more demands for perfection right now. That was IT!

[Lance]

All this excitement over the hot competition with AG-S got me revved up enough to try to improve my Feisar times.

My old times were 2:20.6 race and 46.2 lap. After about 5 warm-up races, I then did a 2:19.9 [best lap 46.00], another 2:19.9, then a 2:19.3 with a new best lap [second lap; I missed the first boost pad on the last lap.] of 45.7.

Wheeeeeeeeeee :)



edit: after posting this and doing some other general mucking about, I went back to racing and immediately did a 2:18.1
! Perhaps I should try that technique more often. :)

The laps were: 46.3 45.8 46.0

I notice that, opposite to the AG-S, the first Feisar lap tends to be the slowest.

[Asayyeah]

Oh Guys, what i am doing here ! is it lake of sleep that give me that crazy instinct to take part to that challenge. :p Actually i like challenging ( i wanna made a quick pause on Pure due to 'insane' MadIce result through TT to get back to it with big motivation )

Ok back to WipEout: this is like being slapped violently, i know what it feels now to have more than 16 sec in my face on a racetime in ...venom ... :o

here's my result ( at least i kicked Ben's arse ...for the moment ...:p , my dear friend who told me he will let me drive his precious baby dream car De Lorean at US convention in July :sonar)... but ermm i am far from modero-mate Lance .. oh forgetting the 4 freaks ( also known as the ' 4 WipEout fantastics ' , i ll stay humble and will try to lead the group of chasers ( watch out Lance i am coming...slowly....)

49.0 - 50.0 - 48.2 = 2.27.2
Ag Daniel Chang , Neggie set up at 31 ( yeah **** happends :turd ;) )

[q_dmc12]

No, no , no - you can't drive it cuz I'm not bringing my toy, only my game face! ;)
Anyway, I am off to (metaphoricly) slap you violently again - will post an update in this same post to save lance some time. ;)

-------------EDIT:

BAM!!8)

Danny Chang is with me tonight: :g

AG Sys

Lap 1: 00:48.2 :)
Lap 2: 00:48.6
Lap 3: 00:48.5

Total: 02:25.3 :)

PS> I always like a little proof in my pudding;) :

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8079/karbonis01gy8.th.png (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=karbonis01gy8.png)
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/633/karbonis02wx3.th.png (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=karbonis02wx3.png)

[Lance]

Hm... Arnaud, the top Wipeout pilot, using an AG-S [the apparent ideal ship for Karbonis V] to chase down the most ancient and frail of Wipeout pilots in his dreadfully slowest of all ships, the Feisar. Should I be worried that I might be overtaken?



AAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

You betchurass I should!!!!!

[q_dmc12]

Ah, didn't see your post - maybe I should refreash the page sometime:rolleyes:

Anyway, its neck and neck - who will be the first to overthrow the wipeoutarts master from his ....5th...place..?? Okay, he is already beat.. but .....Clearly visible on the top 5 board!!:g

[lunar]

I didn`t mean to have another go, and meant to do another track, but after pressing single player - venom - time trial I lost control and somehow ended up on Karbonis :? Anyway it`s only 2.11.0 - a small personal improvement for the standings. :D

[Task]

That's the first time I've had to update the standings twice in 10 minutes.

I'll bet that it's not long before both of you have broken that 2:11 barrier.
That would be a nice race to have a little video of! 2:10.X Venom Karbonis TT, I never would've imagined it.

I'd still like to be in 3rd place though, perhaps I can take off another half second...

[Asayyeah]

Jay, you did the update but you missed to add my name and my ... pity scores :paperbag ...

You probably thought i could beat my 2.27 easily and you right :D
Here's my score atm still on AG
47.9 - 47.7 - 46.9 = 2.22.5

Slowly but surely i am learning how to get with WipEout ( thx for all your tips guys & gale i read through this whole thread :+ )
I still have problem with finding the right tempo for turbo start, i will get there eventually

[Medusa]

Nice one Lunar! I must admit, all these posts have my heart ticking a bit faster...oh no...Asa is here:D

@Task - I have no way of videotaping(or whatever...) my races. All I can do is take pitiful digital shots on my cell phone and email them to myself to get them on my PC:blarg

@Asa - I think your times are overlooked because you are on a PAL Wipeout?

[Lance]

Now see there, Asa is closing in on me already. Just for giggles, I tried an AG-S last night after my 2:18.1 with Feisar, and got a 2:18.1 with the AG-S. It went into second place on the in-game records, so it must have been a few hundredths of a second slower than the Feisar time. I didn't save the time though; I'm just keeping Feisar times on the memcard. Wonder where my other one is.

[Task]

The rules are that you post your best recent times in the usual place (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/records.php?track_id=62&mode_id=2&type_id=2&limit=5&action=display_records&sub_action=&game_id=12&x=43&y=30) and then...I add you to the standings.Right you are Isadora!
Arnaud: You're running PAL, so you're in the PAL tables, so you don't show up on the NTSC tables that I base the standings on. It's certainly great to have lots of people in this challenge, but if your times don't show up on the record page I linked to, then you're only competing in an "unofficial" way. 8 )

This has certainly become a fantastic thread for someone who wants to get better at WO1 though, no doubt about that. I was just playing some SR earlier today and couldn't beat 2:20. Even though I've got a 2:14 right there on my score table, it's all by itself, my 2nd place time is a 2:2X.X

[Medusa]

108 Bad picture but best I could get...

[Asayyeah]

I am sorry Task , i haven't read that part, ignore me for the official challenge :paperbag
After spending a quick moment through msn with Lunar he told me about a difference in term of scores between ntsc & pal. I am going to wait a little before competiting with your standart.

Neverminds here's my Pal current one :

46.3 - 46.4 - 46.2 = 2.18.9

[Task]

2:18.X, you're definitely improving!

Yes, the differences tend to mean that the best time you can achieve on your PAL hardware will be a bit slower than what you could achieve on NTSC hardware. So competing with us will be a huge challenge for you, since you'll have to work significantly harder for the same time.

Not something I imagine you'll mind, but hardly fair. Nonetheless, any kind of live competition is always a good thing!

[Lance]

New Feisar times:
lap: 45.3
race: 2:17.6

I did three 2:17.6 times in a row with a different set of laptimes each time; here's one of them: 45.4 46.4 45.8

I can do better. :)

[q_dmc12]

Would You Stop it already! You make me feel old and unworthy as a competitor!! ;)

[Task]

And Lance in his NTSC Feisar jumps ahead of Arnaud in his PAL AG-Sys!

Will the system speed differences even out the ship differences?
Stay tuned for the next exciting episode: Now's The Time To Break The Limit!

[Lance]

Would You Stop it already! You make me feel old and unworthy as a competitor!! ;)

How dare you steal mY line?! I have a copyright on that last sentence! ;)

Jay, I dunno what is possible; lunar's current fastest Feisar time in PAL is about 2:25.xx I think. I've no idea how close that is to the limit, nor how well an AG-S can do in PAL, but we're about to find out, I think. :D

In NTSC-A, Feisar should be able to do a 2:15.9, and possibly less; I'm not piloting perfectly yet, and I can already do a 45.3 on any lap. Getting the best time on every lap of the same race is always the hard part, as we know all too clearly. On my three 2:17.6 races, I was driving very clumsily through parts of the course that I've done much better on, and never in any of those three races did I manage a 45.3 even though I'd done 45.3 on four occasions earlier in the session.

[lunar]

my PAL Feisar time is a fair distance from the limit - it was before I stumbled into this challenge and had to sharpen up my game somewhat. :blarg

I would estimate that PAL is 2-3 seconds slower than NTSC per minute of racing. It can vary depending on the track, though, as well as the ship and the amount of flight and bumps, as these behave differently in the two versions also. They can`t be accurately compared, really, but no doubt Arnaud`s PAL time is pretty close to the limit. :robot:beer

[Asayyeah]

With this first wipEout, i find very hard to know if you are doing a real great section or not since you can't see the speedometer. For that reason i am a bit lost in term of which kind of score is ultimately possible but also rewarding when you are mastering it like you do on NTSC version, i am impressed.
Lunar told me he thinks about a difference of 5/6 sec between the 2 versions is pretty possible on that track & class. I d be still at 2 sec from amazing lady :o

ill try feisar now , who never knows, huh Lance? :cold
;)

Edit
thx Stephen for being also a great competitor into the Pal tables : i also used all your trick & tips you described along the WipEout forum , that has helped me a lot

Edit 2

Feisar ( Sofia )
46.4 - 47.7 - 48.2 = 2.22.3

[RJ O'Connell]

UPDATE!

NTSC-A / AG Systems / John Dekka / Dual Shock 2

Lap 1: 43.2
Lap 2: 44.1
Lap 3: 44.5

TOTAL: 2:11.8

(still 3rd -_-)

[q_dmc12]

(still 3rd -_-)

could be worse ;)

[Lance]

Updated my Feisar times:
2:16.6 laptimes for this race: 45.2 45.6 45.8

New best lap: 45.1

[lunar]

some very sweet times coming in there. I wonder what Lance would do with an AGS, and what Rory would do with a negcon? :banzai

[q_dmc12]

:o*gasp!*

[RJ O'Connell]

some very sweet times coming in there. I wonder what Lance would do with an AGS, and what Rory would do with a negcon? :banzai
Don't tempt me, man! T_T Best deal I found on one doesn't even ship to the US!!! Grr...

I'm away from the house for the time being, only bringing my phone and Pure. Have at my 2:11.8, guys!

[Lance]

some very sweet times coming in there. I wonder what Lance would do with an AGS, and what Rory would do with a negcon? :banzai

Thanks. :)
I'll work on AG-S someday, but there's still more improvement possible with Feisar, so while I'm used to its handling on this track, I want to keep at it a bit longer.

[lunar]

This is my final result for this challenge. I have no time to play for the next month or so, and me and my negcon are going elsewhere. :paperbag

my new times: Race 2.10.5, Lap 42.7

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbosmall.jpg

[Task]

Wow. Do you know your three laptimes for that blazing race perchance?
You're averaging 43.5/lap I believe, and I think you've wrung about as much as can be out of the track. I'm guessing that your second lap is your slowest and your last lap is your fastest..

[lunar]

My big problem has been consistenly losing speed throughout the race - one bad bump on the underside and you never quite get the speed/thrust back again. The lap splits were 42.9 - 43.5 - 44.1.

[Lance]

I've noticed that lately as my Feisar times get better, that my times get worse on every lap. Maybe we're so much on the edge of possibility that the extreme high level of concentration required wears out our ability to stay focussed on the task as the race goes on?

[Medusa]

:o Oh - my - goodness. (Edited version, delayed post;))

What a race lunar, what a race:o

I'd like to think I can control my perfectionism, but I can't :frown:. I just have to try this again:blarg (and again and again most likely...).
Congrats on what is probably the absolute Karbonis TT venom limit!

[Asayyeah]

if your last lap was the same as your 2nd one Stephen , the 2.10.0 barrier would have been beaten :o :cold :o


Congrats for that massive performance mate especially on the 5 best racetime : only 7 tenths between the top one and the 5th :+

[Medusa]

So I didn't want to give up quite yet. Seems I've been wrong about my limits;)

43:4 - 43:9 - 43:1 = 2:10:4:D

109

[q_dmc12]

how 'bout that pace maker now?:o

[lunar]

I'd like to think I can control my perfectionism, but I can't

I know, and I was not under any illusions that 2.10.5 would be enough to destroy the Kween, so I only had a minor heart attack this time ;) Awesome run, but I`m really not going to try and do anything awesomer for a while, so you can log in to the forums without keeping the oxygen tanks and defibrillator handy..... though I can`t speak for everyone else :D It`s really been an amazing challenge so far - so thanks to all.

[Asayyeah]

Dear Isadora, your forum nickname is perfectly well-found especially for french dudes : we got the verb 'méduser' which means 'petrify' : that may describe pretty well my feeling atm watching your score ! glurps !
:clap:clap

[Medusa]

It`s really been an amazing challenge so far - so thanks to all. Yes, I second that, Lunar. This challenge is just completely insane. When I turned my PSX on to try this again I just bust out laughing. If we all tried this hard on every track, WO Zone would be a very scary place! (Arnaud's and Al's times in particular are scary enough!) And we have really been pushing this track to the limits of human endurance. It's like trying to race like a robot:p Can't fall asleep in the middle of a lap...:coffee

@ Asa - petrify! What a beautiful language, to turn Medusa into a verb! That's great! That will be my french word for the day (yesterday was pot-de-vin!).

[Task]

43:4 - 43:9 - 43:1 = 2:10:4:DNow _that's_ what I'm talking about!
Fast lap, slow lap, fastest lap, that's the pattern I was expecting to see!

Well done, that's damn fast!

[lunar]

Aaarrgghhh - somebody stop me doing this race. :naughty I`ll be three hundred miles from my Playstation until next week, so that should make me keep my word for a while. :brickwall:banzai

race: 2.10.2, lap 42.6

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbosmall-1.jpg

[Task]

Standings moved to: http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showpost.php?p=64503&postcount=173

[Lance]

Ben's time is listed in the official tables as being done with an AG-S.

?

[q_dmc12]

I was just going to post that:p

[Task]

If we all tried this hard on every track, WO Zone would be a very scary place!That's pretty much exactly how the W3O times got to where they are now.
You should've seen the Manortop Phantom rivalry: Al "King Of AG Racing" Sartwell VS Joel "Posted a time beating Al" Marshall. They were back and forth on that one for a month, until eventually Al couldn't _beat_ Joels time, he could only tie it. So he got serious. And pulled out the Icaras. The times still stand (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/records.php?game_id=4&mode_id=1&track_id=15&filter=unique&type_id=2&limit=10&action=display_records&sub_action=&x=41&y=44). I think it was that challenge that turned them into Al "Phantom For Breakfast" Sartwell and Joel "Manortop" Marshall. Kind of like going up a level, or something.
I'm crazy proud of my weak-looking 3rd place score there.

I can measure the success of this challenge by how much it reminds me of that one! 8 )

[RJ O'Connell]

OK.

Someone's buying me a neGcon for getting out of school next week.

I'm about to get serious here....soon.

[q_dmc12]

I'm skeptical, does it really make that much difference?:robot

EDIT: Heyyy, an update - look out Lance, here I come:

Lap 1: 00:48.1
Lap 2: 00:47.9
Lap 3: 00:45.9 :)

Total: 02:21.9 :)

ah yes, still ag-s

[Lance]

My new Feisar best lap: 44.9

I entered an AG-S time:

45.3 44.6 45.2 2:15.2

My AG-S best lap: 44.6

edit: Update: AG-S:

43.9 44.5 44.7 2:13.1

AG-S best lap: 43.9

[q_dmc12]

Nooooo :o, you may be old but your finger tips are young! ;)

[Medusa]

Very nice Lunar, verry verrrry nice!!! I am still wondering a bit how you pulled off the 42:9 first lap on your other race. That's a killer start to a race and I haven't managed to duplicate it yet...believe me I tried:frown:

In fact I just KEEP wondering, is lunar catching the first speed pad of the race even though on turbo start????:naughty

P.S. Nice jump in your times, Lance! No more slugly yellow for you?

[Lance]

Heaven forfend, Izzy! [slap me if you don't want to be called ''Izzy''.]; no, I shall continue trying to improve the Feisar times; I can't let John Dekka and Daniel Chang have all the fun.

Ben, you get yourself out there on the track and race! Your times will fall like crazy, I promise. Are you getting the turbo start on that first lap? That's a must-have to cut back your race times. Don't try to cut too deeply into a curve trying to maximise the boostpad effect; keeping the racing line straighter is better, so just try to catch the edges of the boostpads. Sometimes I miss them and it costs a bit, but one has to try for the best compromise in thrustcatching and simultaneously not having to overcontrol on the steering.

[Medusa]

43:0 - 43:5 - 43:5 = 2:10:0 :D:D:D

I'm pretty sure we can get a 2:09:X on this baby - I've finally managed a 42:7 even on the first lap but then the other 2 laps went all to hell:mad:

I'll keep working on that.:banzai

[Lance]

Wow!

---

Well, this is rather anti-climactic after that new record, but here are my new AG-S times:

43.9 44.4 44.1 2:12.4

43.6 44.0 44.8 2:12.4

Did it two ways; that last lap in the second one sure hurt.

New best AG-S lap: 43.5 [did it 3 times]

[Task]

I'm skeptical, does it really make that much difference?:robot
I shall direct you towards the 2nd article written for the WOZone: http://www.wipeoutzone.com/features.php?action=display&id=23

EDIT: Heyyy, an update - look out Lance, here I come:

Total: 02:21.9 :)That "zoom" was Lance speeding past me. I'm afraid you're chasing after me now. 8 P

[Lance]

You're not racing as much as we are, I fear. Not so much time available, I guess.

[Asayyeah]

race: 2.10.2, lap 42.6


43:0 - 43:5 - 43:5 = 2:10:0

What's the next step after being petrified :? the crucifixion ?
:p

[RJ O'Connell]

Well, being my first unofficial day of summer vacation and all, I had plenty of free time to churn this one out - my first sub-43 lap and first sub-2:11 time!

NTSC-A / AG Systems / John Dekka / D-Pad

Lap 1: 0:42.6
Lap 2: 0.44.5
Lap 3: 0.43.8

TOTAL: 2:10.9

Just think, if I hadn't bounced on Lap 2 I could be looking at seriously being up with Isadora and Stephen...O_O

[Lance]

You people are burnin' some serious gravitons.

[Medusa]

Great time RJ! The second lap can really be the killer. I have trouble with the momentum of it, since there isn't much boost to start the lap it is more difficult to keep it under 44 seconds. Very impressive first lap - 42:6! Wow. I need two full turbos to get that time!

I really think a 2:09:9 will take this challenge. Unfortunately I can't seem to reach that yet...I'm all wiped out at the moment.

Oh yeah - Lance (slap:p)

[RJ O'Connell]

You people are burnin' some serious gravitons.
We're actually not burning much since anti-gravity craft produce zero emissions and don't burn any biofuel, combined with the fact that they float, thus not allowing them to burn rubber. [/smartass]

[Lance]

I was attempting to express myself colloquially. :D

Edit: New Feisar times.

44.8 45.6 45.4 - 2:15.8

Best Lap: 44.5

which occurred in this race:

44.5 46.0 45.4 - 2:15.9

[q_dmc12]

Are you getting the turbo start on that first lap?

That's a must-have to cut back your race times. Don't try to cut too deeply into a curve trying to maximise the boostpad effect; keeping the racing line straighter is better, so just try to catch the edges of the boostpads. Sometimes I miss them and it costs a bit, but one has to try for the best compromise in thrustcatching and simultaneously not having to overcontrol on the steering.

No, it is rare if I do - still feeling it out, often I am too early. Not quite:

...oooonnnnee .....gooo!
......x...

nor

...oooonnnnee .....gooo!
..........x...

somewhere inbetween.:pirate
----
I don't use racing lines[often] (now you know my secret:(), I react on intuition and impulse. Its hard to describe but I've played alot of racing games to know what you are saying is what I am doing.:D

[Lance]

Yet better Feisar times:

44.6 44.9 45.3 - 2:14.8

Best lap - 44.3

[q_dmc12]

*throws controller on ground* (not really)
That does it! - you're not my favorite moderator anymore;)

[Lance]

Now you can replace that broken controller with a neGcon. :D

Seriously, if you've never used one, you have no idea how great it is. As long as you don't have a problem with cramping of the hands or somesuch. I know that two people here have had a prob with it, Jay and Ben/G'Kyl. Ben was able to use his for quite a while when he and I were competing on XL Talon's Reach, but eventually developed a prob. I hope it's gone away by now. Jay, I wish it wasn't giving you fits lately.

[q_dmc12]

never really had my hand cramp-up - o...wait, yes when I shovel too much wet snow...like each shovel full weighs about 10 to 12 lbs.:blarg

Or, if I put my fingers into weird positions:D - nope, no problem with cramping.


Now you can replace that broken controller with a neGcon. :D

Come to think of it....I do have a ps2 pad with a broken left joy - thanks for the idea :+

[Task]

Jay, I wish it wasn't giving you fits lately.Well, since I never really got enough usage out of it to become accustomed to it, I don't really know what I'm missing.
So it's not too bad. 8 )

I only wish that I could more often get the solid hour I would need in order to tackle the challenge.
Right now everyone's asleep but me, that means now is my chance! <off to race>

Edit: T'was no good. I tied my best lap time, but I can't lower it. That leaves me still stuck at the 2:13.X point. Might just be the best I can manage.

[q_dmc12]

mix redbull with vodka;)

[lunar]

43:0 - 43:5 - 43:5 = 2:10:0 :D:D:D

I'm pretty sure we can get a 2:09:X on this baby - I've finally managed a 42:7 even on the first lap but then the other 2 laps went all to hell:mad:

I'll keep working on that.:banzai

top of the class :rock

I came back home and knew you would have kicked my arse out of first place again. My last first place splits were 42.6 - 43.6 - 44.0, I think. I humbly suggest ;) my turbo strategy on lap 1 used to be better than yours - but no longer. Also your turbo on lap 3 is doing more damage than mine, and always has done - so I think you could certainly break the 2.10. Next time I`m in the mood to race I will have to work on that last lap. :robot

[lunar]

42.8 + 43.5 + 43.5 = 2.09.8

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbolaps.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karboTTtimes.jpg

[Task]

Insanity!

[q_dmc12]

WOW!

Congrats Lunar *shakes hand*

[Lance]

Holy F!

I'm thinking there's a sub 2:09 available, judging by the times lunar and Medusa have already done.

[Task]

I really doubt it. I'm thinking 2:09.6 is the limit.
Look at Stephens best run:
42.8 + 43.5 + 43.5 = 2.09.8
And Isadoras:
43:0 - 43:5 - 43:5 = 2:10:0

They're only taking time off the first lap now with better runs of the initial turbo start. They're running the final two laps exactly the same by the looks of it. I'd love to see a side-by-side video of each of their best runs, I'm sure it would be awesome. Like mirror images for the most part, differing only slightly.

[Medusa]

Awesomeness, Lunar! I am SERIOUSLY impressed:rock:beer:clap I thought 2:09:9 would be the next time posted...

*Begins tabulating in head...if I do a 42:6 start, 43:5 middle, and manage that crazy 43:1 end lap again, I could beat that...*

Like you said Task, absolute and utter insanity. There's no other term for it.

[RJ O'Connell]

we might have a winner already folks!

Great freaking job Stephen! ^_^ *claps and applauds*

[lunar]

we might have a winner already folks!
thanks, but not so fast...... never ever write off the Kween o` Karbonis. :cold And when you get that Negcon you will find a few tenths, I`m sure. Karbo Venom isn`t the ultimate neggie track, but it can certainly help a bit, I think. ;)



I'm thinking 2:09.6 is the limit.


I`m suspecting the same thing with the turbo strategy I`m using, and that your maths is right: two 43.5s with a 42.6 to start. Maybe a tenth or two could also be shaved off with lucky bounces and tight turns. I`ve been quite lucky and not had to have too many restarts, but trying to get this 2.09.6 race could get a little crazy. For faster than that, it could depend on whether Medusa`s 43.1 final lap was borrowing turbo power from lap 2, so you would not be able to get the 43.5 on lap 2 in the same race. I think we might find out...... :dizzy

The coolest thing about this challenge is that me, RJ and Medusa are all tied for the lap. :pirate

[Task]

For faster than that, it could depend on whether Medusa`s 43.1 final lap was borrowing turbo power from lap 2, so you would not be able to get the 43.5 on lap 2 in the same race. I think we might find out...... :dizzy

Well, turbo 1 and 2 are used crossing the finish line, right?
Since by the end of lap 3 the race is over, that makes that a poor place to use turbo 3. So I've been using the 3rd turbo going up the hill, which should be giving me a really fast final lap. And in fact, my best lap time is set that way.
Have you been using all 3 crossing the finish line? If so, I think you could improve your time just by moving your final turbo location.

Edit: And hey, we just became the 2nd most viewed Arena thread! Yay us! 8 )

[RJ O'Connell]

I hit all the turbos just as I'm going onto the backstraight with the little gaps in it.

[lunar]

@Jay - I guess hitting F5 all afternoon could get us to the top..... but wouldn`t get much work done.

Another note about Karbonis: it seems to be the only track that has a moving speed pad. You go down the steep hill out of the tunnel, over the double and up the short rise, then on venom there`s a pad at the other side of the rise on the right - anyone noticed how this cheeky blighter moves to the left side on Rapier? Does this happen anywhere else in WipEout?

About turbos, I hit them at the end of the "corkscrew", "spiral", whatever we`re going to call it. ;)

[Task]

I'm pretty sure all the tracks change going from Venom to Rapier. Weapon pads move around, too. Usually only one or two changes per track, but after I've raced a track in Venom for a while, it takes me a couple attempts before I can race it at Rapier because I'm expecting slightly different things.

RJOC: I used to do that too. It got me pretty far, but the bumpiness of that ride diminishes the speed of the turbo boost. I have since changed to using it at the end of the lap, and saw immediate improvements.

lunar: Corkscrew? Spiral? You're thinking of Megamall or Terminal! 8 )
I believe the term you want is "chicane". The downhill curvy thing at the end of the lap, right?

[Lance]

I hit all of my turbos at the end of the esses just coming into the finishing straight. But don't mind me, I'm behind the top three times. Maybe farther, I've not looked in the last few days.

I don't know about boostpad shift cos I've never run Rapier class yet.

[lunar]

yes, Task, after the "downhill curvy thing" it is, as soon as possible after the second from last corner on the track.

[Medusa]

113

114

To heck with you and your 2:09:6's:rock:rock:rock

Who's insane? Who? Who?:g:g:g

(That would be a 2:09:5. Do not adjust your monitor. 42:6 - 43:8 - 43:1.)

[lunar]

*expletive*! ;) Yes, you might well be the insanest. Congrats Isadora, you are the Karbonator. :robot

And by heavens I have to find the secret of your 3rd lap turbo magic.....

but congrats again.... "back of the net" :beer

I was just embarking on a video project (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=64367#post64367) when you posted that..... shame we can`t get a video of the Karbo boss in action, but this might help us all understand each other`s Karbo techniques, even if the PAL race I recorded wasn`t really tight enough. btw I`m still gobsmacked at that time. I think I would have to break the 2.00 to finish you off, and even then.... :blarg :)

[Task]

42:6 - 43:8 - 43:1<ridiculous>Hey, what went wrong there? Your 2nd lap is only 43.8, you can usually do a 43.5 there! Was this race of yours a bit sub-par? Are you just warming up for the 2:09.2 you're going after next?</ridiculous>
<real>Izzy... You make us dizzy! 8 D</real>

So are you doing the 3rd turbo up the hill towards the cave and the sharp downhill left? That's what that fast 3rd lap says to me. By the looks of that 1st lap you've got the turbo start expertly managed and you're eking every bit of speed you can out of it. Simply frightening!

I remember just a few months ago you thought I was real fast and that my times were good. I'd die happy if you told me that you were the master now and slew me with your lightsabre. 8 )

[Lance]

QUOTE=Lance;64333 >Holy F!

I'm thinking there's a sub 2:09 available, judging by the times lunar and Medusa have already done.</QUOTE

:D

[Medusa]

Ack, there just can't be a sub-2:09 available, or I'm screwed!:brickwall
I'd love to see it but fear it is impossible. I don't think below 2:09:4 is at all possible...but I've been wrong before:p

Yes Task you are exactly right about my 3rd turbo, that's where it goes! And honestly I was a bit downhearted at that 43:8, but wasn't about to hit restart after the 42:6!
I remember just a few months ago you thought I was real fast and that my times were good. I still do. I just went fanatical over Karbonis. It took quite a lot of time for me to break your other times actually...and besides you really kick arse on your XL and 3 times!!!With a dpad!!!

P.S. Lunar, I just watched your race time vid, the line looks close but I can't tell for sure because I NEVER, EVER race external view...so I can't really compare it well to what my races look like. I will watch them all again and say what I think may be different.

[Lance]

Sigh. I just took another 4/tenths off my AG-S time: 2:11.9

Rooty tooty tooty, etc. Sarcastic party twirl. Still 2.4 seconds behind the new record. Still doing all turbos out of the esses toward the finish.

Actually the 2:11.9 is pretty cool considering what my times used to be. :)

[Medusa]

Here’s the differences I noticed between the video and my races - First off, it seems that the PAL version never has the thrust drop below full! In the NTSC, thrust will drop near the end of the tunnel before the downhill section, and in the “esses”.
BIG difference in the start. With the turbo start, I do a quick left at the first curve and a quick right-left which takes me around the very inside of the curves and then straight line to the very inside of the next curve. (The first speed pad is totally ignored on this lap.) I take a straight line from there to the speed-weapon-speed pad combo and then a straight line to the speed pad to go through the tunnel. Couldn’t tell for sure in the video but at the bottom of the downhill, I switch from nose-down to nose-up before getting to the bottom, and stay nose-up until going over the next speed pad at which it is a quick nose-down.
Another big difference in how the speed pad after the splits is approached. I stay in the middle of the track and do a 90 degree turn as soon as I land to catch the speed pad. In the video the ship moves to the right of the track for a wider turn.
Before the “buddhas” I nose-up at the split and stay nose-up until going over the speed pad, eliminating the bouncing. Which brings up another big difference. I never ever miss any speed pads except for the first one of the race (mentioned above). And in the “esses”, the ship should be turned in the direction you’ll be going before the thrust of the boost kicks in (turn while going over speed pad).
Also when using the turbo after the esses, wait until the ship is in the middle of the track, again to eliminate bouncing. For the second lap all is the same except now the first speed pad of the lap is used.
For the third lap, as soon as I am around the corner looking towards the tunnel, I nose-up and turbo through the tunnel. Don’t move over towards the two speed pads, stay close to the wall.
So that’s what I do. Hope this helps, but not enough for anyone to break my record!;)

[lunar]

it seems that the PAL version never has the thrust drop below full!

that`s not because of the video format - it`s the pilot. :D ;) No not really..... you have a very interesting approach to lots of parts of this track - many thanks for this post. It gives answers to a lot of things I was curious about. A lot of it is different to my technique, except at the Buddha jump where I do the same as you. I think I probably do the same as you on the jump and turn after the splits, but on PAL I took it wider I think because the bouncing was worse. Lots to try out - but that 0.03 looks like a pretty wide gap at the moment. :)

[Lance]

''For the third lap, as soon as I am around the corner looking towards the tunnel, I nose-up and turbo through the tunnel. Don’t move over towards the two speed pads, stay close to the wall.''

? So on lap 3 you catch the first boost on the left, ignore the double pad at the right, catch the next boost at the left in the bend that enters the tunnel and stay close left all the way through the tunnel with nose up, hard left and down the hill?

In general you use a lot of nose up, where I use almost none, but I use nose down in at least 2 places. Sometimes 6 places. If I time it perfectly, I can stop bounce over the track breaks. But the timing must be absolutely right as the point at which it has to be done is a little strip of track about 3 feet long. So I usually just let the thing bounce. :D

[Asayyeah]

40 minutes reading the unread posts since tuesday. I discovered successively that leader were changing twice ( girl NTSC powaaaa:cake ) and also seen this great video ( arghhhh :blarg i took 3 sec on my **** with Pal game )

No no no :naughty Stephen that can't last anymore i will stop your hege-'karbo'-mony on Pal :mad:
:D

[Medusa]

Lance - that's right except I only nose-up basically until I'm in the tunnel, then I let go of the pitch. I used to nose-down at the splits to stop bouncing but it added time to my laps:mad:We can't have that.

[RJ O'Connell]

Alright, who thinks I can get sub 2:10 with a D-pad controller?

[Lance]

Rory, does that mean you already have done it, and are about to surprise us with the announcement? :)

[RJ O'Connell]

Ahem...

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7008/dsc00240ou1.th.jpg (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00240ou1.jpg)

NTSC-A / AG Systems / John Dekka (USA) / DualShock 2

Lap 1: 0:42.8
Lap 2: 0:43.7
Lap 3: 0:43.3

TOTAL: 2:09.8 (+0:00.3 Medusa)

I think if I'd matched my best lap I could have tied for the lead...^_~ hehehe. Here's my current top five scores:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2094/dsc00242ff3.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00242ff3.jpg)

[RJ O'Connell]

Remember when we said the contest ends when people just stop participating? Between me, Lance, Isadora and lunar, I doubt that'll happen by the end of the year.

This is great fun and if you have an NTSC system and you want to get into the challenge yourself, I suggest you do so.

TOP THREE AS OF NOW

MEDUSA (CAN) - 2:09.5
RJ O'CONNELL (USA) - 2:09.8 +0.3
LUNAR (GBR) - 2:09.8 +0.3
LANCE (USA) - 2:11.8 +2.3
TASK (CAN) - 2:13.9 +4.4
Q_DMC12 (USA) - 2:21.9 +12.4

[Task]

Fantastic! What a great day for the D-Pad!

Proof that we don't need a neggie to produce top times! Although it's probably easier that way. 8 )

Solid achievement!

[Lance]

Rory, that's a great time! It would be a great time even for a neGcon.

------------------------

[Lance mentions that his 2:14.8 with a Feisar is not too bad.] :D

[lunar]

I'm thinking there's a sub 2:09 available, judging by the times lunar and Medusa have already done.

Not there yet, but there definitely is.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbosmallc.jpg

Laps - 42.5 + 43.3 + 43.2 = 2.09.0

A 2.08 is do-able. The fastest I could possibly do with my current strategy is probably 2.08.4, but whether I ever will get faster than my current time is not certain. I would need 42.2 + 43.1 + 43.1, which is possible in theory I think, but I have lost my speed for some reason right now. :( It`s now requiring a level of perfection that seems to depend on a level of luck, and even if not luck it is certainly a pain in the arse when you can`t get it just right.

I had what must have been a blinding session and set my latest times. I got three or four 42.2 openers..... came back to it to try and crack the 2.09, and couldn`t get anything: one 42.3 lap, but apart from that 42.7 was my best opener and on laps 2 and 3 I could rarely get 43.5. :? :brickwallSo I am sick of Karbonis and have opened beer - and that`s it for tonight. :D I am not sure I will ever get lucky or accurate enough to get my ultimate time - it would just require a silly amount of restarts probably. I did get a 42.2 + 43.1 + crash - and got a final time of 2.09.6 with a wall hit:brickwall. I`m flying this pretty much as in the video I made, with the same turbo strategy of using them all at the end of the "esses".

The only differences are that I`m not going quite so wide on jump/turn after the splits, and I`m following this piece of advice:


at the bottom of the downhill, I switch from nose-down to nose-up before getting to the bottom, and stay nose-up until going over the next speed pad at which it is a quick nose-down.


This is worth around 0.4 per lap if you get it right, in my opinion. It was very sporting of you to give us a walk-through Medusa, and that is what gave me the extra time, as well as that I flew it much more tightly than in the video.

I am fairly sure that the 2.08 barrier is unbreachable though. :o I know we should never say never, but I would probably bet my black neg on it.


btw congrats on a stunning d-pad effort RJ - I have no idea what`s possible with a d-pad because I`m completely incompetent with one.

[Lance]

Bloody Hell! I had just congratulated myself on getting a lap within 2 tenths of the record and taking 7 tenths off my three-lap time, so I go to enter that new race time and what do I find? This!!!

Congratulations, Lunar! Spectacular!

---

BTW, [grumble grumble], my new personal best [not at all the same as having a rEcord!][grumble] is:
Best Lap: 42.8
Best TT racetime: 43.00 43.8 44.3 - 2:11.1

I got progressively more ragged as I went along.

[Task]

The standings can now be found in their own thread (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=64624#post64624)

[Lance]

Hmmm... what twistmax is everybody using, if that's not giving away your edge? I've been using anything from 130 to 140.

[RJ O'Connell]

Phht.

At the rate I'm going 2:09.0 with the D-pad will be a piece of cake.

(yeah right. using the strategy lunar has with turbos I'm actually going SLOWER.)

[lunar]

slower? Bloody hell I will have to try out the back straight option again. The trick with my turbo strategy is to hit the turbo as soon as you can and don`t hit the speed pads - just get to the corner as soon as you can. It`s kind of a leap of faith when you hit the turbo, but on the PAL video I did delay the turbo too long also, waiting to be safe.

I use 53 twist for this one.

[Lance]

53?! I would be crashing into the walls all the time. I ain't that good.

This game is so very different from WO2 in effect of neGcon settings. I use about 12-35 in it.

edit: took another 4 tenths off, now 2:10.7

[Medusa]

Geez, I go play for a few days and look what happens!:naughty I've lost the lap record and the race!!! I knew the lap would go but I am surprised that much time came off the race time:o Back I go to my Karbonis. I will have to get to work on it Rapier class as well:banzai

Beautiful time Lunar, and WOW Rory with the d-pad O'Connell!


It was very sporting of you to give us a walk-through I remember how frustrating it was for me when first looking at top times on this site, and nowhere did I find Al/Asayyeah detailing precisely how they did it - probably because I didn't look hard enough...but I think to have an honest even challenge, pilots should be open about techniques, no? Any other "sport" has replays where competitors can see the others' racelines and methods, why not WipEout?!

For the good of mankind...;)

[Asayyeah]

I remember how frustrating it was for me when first looking at top times on this site, and nowhere did I find Al/Asayyeah detailing precisely how they did it - probably because I didn't look hard enough...but I think to have an honest even challenge, pilots should be open about techniques, no?
Yes for sure, that's what i always did.
At least for 2097/XL, i wrote years ago ( sticky topic : tips for 2097) a long post commenting & detailling all my lines for each track ( i can tell you for a non-english speaker that's freakin hard and i spent more than 2 weeks to do it with help from WZ members to correct my typos) but it has been done.
I also made videos from most of the phantom records ( TT & SR) that is shown into 2097 tables and hosted it a site , now starting to upload them directly into you tube . Not sure if i can do more ...

About Pure i always shared my tips into TT challenge or on various Pure threads ( note that i never collected all these infos in one topic : but that's also a freakin long job)
There's also videos from my Kai action last year : you ll be able to watch the 28 tracks.

Back on topic : great scores everyone

[q_dmc12]

Not sure if i can do more ...

You can show us personally (mano a mano) at wipeout conventions;)

=============EDIT===============

TT update:

still Dan Chang:

Lap 1: 00:46.3
Lap 2: 00:47.8
Lap 3: 00:47.3

Total: 02:21.4

Video of record : here (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=64528#post64528)

[Medusa]

115

116 42:1 - 43:3 - 43:1 = 2:08:5

Erm, let's just say Lunar's way is faster...:D

Thank you Asa, now I know I didn't look near hard enough:frown: :redface:
I did know the Pure ones and Talon's Reach were there...but that was all I found...not that I've looked lately! (I deserve a good kick in the arse occasionally. Feel free.)

(By "Lunar's way" I mean using all turbos in the same spot and skipping the 2 speed pads in the esses.)

I'm off for a week, so have at 'er! Muahahahaha....:bat

[q_dmc12]

:o....Daaaaaaaammmn:blarg

:+Good job:+

[stin]

Awesome scores all of you gal and guys!, you know what?, I`m hooked on Original Wipeout. Which I have been playing for nearly two weeks.

Thank you

stevie:):+

[lunar]

Erm, let's just say Lunar's way is faster...:D


yes it is - the method is faster (with your nose up tip for double speed pad at the bottom of the hill), but the pilot is slower at the moment. :( All through this challenge I have had the feeling that I have been using cunning tricks to keep up with your superior piloting.




I'm off for a week

you have earned it. No more trying to beat this one for a while for me - though a 42.1 opener suggests that 43.0 is possible on laps 2 and 3, and a 2.08.1 is perhaps the best possible time with this method. Cripes. I`m getting a bit stressed at work, so hopefully will be a good boy and not embark on a marathon Karbonis restart session to try and beat you.


I deserve a good kick in the arse occasionally.

also true :bomb ;) but congrats on a real stunner of a time - you really are very very close to the ultimate time, and you might well have won this one, partly because I`m running out of superlatives to describe your times. :clap

[Lance]

Now, see there; next time maybe you guys will believe me when I say a sub x:xx.x is possible. :D

Serious huge plaudits to Isadora. Amazing performance. Such consistency and precision is required to do this sort of thing.

[Medusa]

a 42.1 opener suggests that 43.0 is possible on laps 2 and 3, and a 2.08.1 is perhaps the best possible time Yes I think you are right Lunar. I managed a 43:0 second lap once. That is probably the barrier. It better be because this CAN'T go on much longer!:blarg

Lance - sub x:xx:x LOL! You always make me laugh:D

Also I feel I should make a formal apology regarding my previous post not just to Arnaud and Al(if ever he reads this) but everybody reading it - "Ignorance does not excuse the law" and "Those who spread ignorance are spreading seeds of evil." Which really means, do THOROUGH homework before opening your mouth.:D

[Lance]

Still not equal to the best but closer: 2:09.90 - 42.8 43.7 43.4
Best Lap 42.3 [currently 3rd place.][yes, it was the first lap]

[Asayyeah]

:clap Isadora ... 2.08.5 ... :o

Who will break the 2 min barrier at the end of this year? :D

I shall enter soon this Ntsc challenge, yes you read it well ! I received brand new baby who crossed the pond with a sweet convertor... sounds enough to take part of that intense competition you have.

[lunar]

another euro challenger..... Bring it on! :rock

something makes me think I might live to regret saying that.

anyway I was a bad boy in the end......

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbolapsC.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbotimesD.jpg

42.1 + 43.1 + 43.1 = 2.08.3

After crapping myself and crashing on the last lap several times, eventually I got there. I mean..... I never crash on this race, except either on the first corner of lap 1 when I`m cold, or when a new record is up for grabs.... :blarg

I got a 42.0 first lap, and even a 42.9 second lap on one race. I think the turbo start is worth 0.9 to 1.0, all other factors being equal. When we were getting 42.6 first laps then 43.5 was the benchmark for lap 2. So it only needs Lance to say the word about 2.08 and we know what we have to do, or at least make some attempt to do. *Gulp* :o That is a scary mission, maybe even mission almost impossible.

[Lance]

I don't think I'm saying the definite word on sub 2:08 yet, but it's beginning to look conceivable. ;)


------

Dammit, every time I close the gap a little, somebody drops the bottom out. :o
I did take 8 tenths off so far today, but so faaaaaar to go.

[Asayyeah]

Here i come ermm slowly
Ntsc Ag Sys 2.11.7
Best lap : 42.3

[Lance]

You're already down to the best lap I've achieved after lots of practice; you're coming along faster than ''slowly''.

edit: I lowered my Feisar times a few minutes ago; cut 1.3 seconds overall, 7 tenths on best lap:
2:13.5 - 43.6 [best lap] 45.0 44.9

[q_dmc12]

Hurray for the neGcon! Helped to shave more than 2 seconds from my TT:o

twist setting 100: (dropped from 111)

Lap 1: 00:46.7
Lap 2: 00:46.9
Lap 3: 00:46.2

Total: 02:19.8 :)

Video coming soon...

EDIT: Video Up! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OsbXRWLyBk)

[Task]

Wow, we get one more person in this and we've got a full grid of 8!

I would not have thought that 2:08 was manageable by human hands, and yet the disturbing possibility seems to exist that a 2:07 might yet appear.

Where have they found the tenths they've removed? Will they find another 4 or 5 tenths to take off somewhere? Stay tuned!

[Medusa]

Welcome to the challenge Arnaud! *quakes in fear* just kidding:+ Nice time and just as a starting entry...FFF takes on NAWTY takes on...LUNAR!

Lunar race, lunar!! Now will I manage to put in a bit more time before I leave for holidays???I'm going to try anyways.:redface:

You are working your times down steadily Lance, you're gonna kick a little butt by the end of this I think.

By the way I don't know what my neggie setting is!:redface: I have not changed it from the default, I like it for AGS on venom just the way it is!

(P.S. Arnaud - can we expect to see your crazy XL times posted again eventually? NTSC machine finding its way to your house and all...look out Sartwell, LOL.)

[Asayyeah]

yes Isadora i 'll do it when i finish my apprenticeship on WipEout, i will have time to spend on my new XL in color without thin tracks ( like it was on modded ps : a reason why i deleted them from the tables)

back on subject : my target tonight is breaking the 2.10.0 barrier. :pirate

[Lance]

Right now, it is my little butt that is getting kicked. :0
Izzy, I find that no matter what twist setting I save to the memory card, I have to reset it on each boot-up of the console or it will revert to 178, which is a bit tooooo slow for my preference.


Arnaud, that means that if I recover from working on a roof in the hot sun today, I'd best be gettin busy cos I'm only one tenth ahead of 2:10. I suspect that I will soon be passed anyway, though.

[phl0w]

I assume you can only enter the Challenge playing it in NTSC WO1, not Pure, right?

Speaking of which, is there much difference between the VR tracks of Pure and their real counterparts?

[q_dmc12]

NeG twist: 95

Lap 1: 00:46.1
Lap 1: 00:46.8
Lap 1: 00:46.1

Total: 02:19.0 :)

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/7391/karbonisttneg05052007lh2.jpg

[Task]

I assume you can only enter the Challenge playing it in NTSC WO1, not Pure, right?
Yes indeedy. Way back in post #1 I laid out the rules for this little challenge that could. Basically, enter your time on the correct NTSC table for WO1 and you're in the challenge. 8 )

And now, if you select "All record" for the Filter value, you can see that I'm now being beaten by A FEISAR.
Yup, passed by a FEISAR.
Well done Lance, that's fantastic performance from the slow ship!

...

I feel so slow...

[q_dmc12]

I am metaphoricly kissing this controller - you guys were right, it does make a difference and I see it now in my times!!:o:+

still AG, still twist 95º

Lap 1: 00:44.6 :)
Lap 1: 00:45.9
Lap 1: 00:45.9

Total: 02:16.4 :)

and I have footage this time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRxBbv2V67Y) - I think I have a definite racing line now :D

[Lance]

It's awesome; I don't know why Namco ever stopped making the neggie.

Considering what RJ did with a D-pad, I shudder to think of what he might do if the neG is something he can live with comfortably.

Jay, I gotta give credit to the ship; Feisar is the little racer that could.

[Asayyeah]

Lance, after 5 mins racing last night i switched off console and went to bed early with a ***** headache , i still have it today and don't think i ll play.
Seems i got the Karbonis Flue :blarg ( at least it's not chicken flue :D)

[RJ O'Connell]

I still don't understand how hitting the turbo at the end of the esses is making me lose speed...

The best first lap I've managed was a 42.9 with it. :/ And I just watched lunar's video again. Does it have something to do with the line I'm taking? I could try again later today...

[lunar]

Seems i got the Karbonis Flue :blarg

Arnaud, get well and back on the track soon, but not too fast when you do get there. :D

RJ, it`s hard to explain, but I don`t use any pitch at all in the turbo area, so it`s probably not the negcon/dpad issue. You really have to hit the turbo as early on the penultimate corner as you possibly can - much sooner than on the video - when you are half way around the corner and as soon as it is safe to do so. You can`t wait until it looks safe, because by that time the moment will have passed. You just have to do it on instinct, but getting as tight as possible to the left side on the penultimate corner seems to open up the line sooner.


I am metaphoricly kissing this controller


Wow Ben, the neg has made an immense difference to your piloting.

[Medusa]

117 42:1 - 43:2 - 43:0 = 2:08:3

It took me HOURS to figure out how to get back down to the 42:1 range:blarg You have really set the bar with that one, Lunar. Intense, punishing, SERIOUS racing. I'm really leaving now. Honest. But I'm taking the lap record with me:D 41:9:D:bat:D

Asa, make sure you play in a bright, well-lit room or you'll get that headache each time. This game is killer for WO headaches...I just stop blinking and no headache until after about 3 hours...

[q_dmc12]

:blargwho blinks when playing videogames?:?

[Lance]

41.9? [faints]

[wakes up]

3 hours? [faints again]

[lunar]

I had a feeling the sub 42 lap was on the cards - my 42.0 didn`t feel the best possible. Congratulations on breaking that barrier with such a perfect lap :cold

Have a good holiday :+

*EDIT*

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbolapsd.jpg

42.3 :blarg + 42.8 :rock+ 43.1 :) = 2.08.2

[stin]

This is unbelievable!!!! such sheer contest!

stevie:O

[Asayyeah]

:o those scores are incredible !! Big respect Isa & Steph, hopefully you aren't husband & wife sharing and building the ultimate racelines for Korodera otherwise it would be impossible for us to catch you ( but ermm even tho you aren't , you still impossible to catch for me ! )

Anyway i'll try to race this afternoon and put scores into the tables.

[Lance]

Hey, shouldn't I be both fourth And sixth in the official standings? :D

Respect to Feiiiiiiiiiisaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar!
;) ;D

Hey, there's no Icaras in this thing, so I have to cheer for sOme team, right? ;)

j/k

[Asayyeah]

lol not too sure Jay will love being relegated to 7th due to your feisar :D

Talking about Feiiiisaaar, i got recently a weird but so funny anecdote :
I bought on Ebay some great WipEout stuff from a french seller who was working on a game magazine and sold his precious things over the net, after winning the auctions he prefered to be paid by cheques and what wasn't my surprise when i read his real name : David Feeser , phonetically so close from Feisar huh? i did asked him through email and he thought i was doing him a bad joke. lmao.

[Lance]

Well, I was kidding, Arnaud. :D Jay started this challenge; so it's his rules as to how many different ships' times can be used as official entries. Only our fastest time counts. Even if we managed to do it more than once! ;D

Sigh. Catching up to lunar and the Kween may prove um... difficult. [tryin' really hard not to think the word ''impossible''.]

[Asayyeah]

héhé i know you were teasing Jay, so am i now with you :42.2 - 43.6 - 43.9 = 2.09.7 :D
i am entering sub 2.10 clan :banzai

[lunar]

I have to confess that the current race record is a strange one: I got a wall hit. :blarg It was on the first lap, just a millisecond before the usual place I hit the turbo. It was only a tap and wobble, and then I thought "what the hell" and hit the turbo anyway, saw the 42.3 lap and decided to carry on. You`re going so slowly before you hit the turbo that it probably didn`t make a huge difference, just 0.2-0.3. It`s probably partly why the second lap was such a fast one though - stopping with the wall hit gave a very smooth line for the turbo, avoiding much bouncing, and meant I carried a lot of speed into lap 2. :paperbag

I have no doubt that more of us will be breaking the 2.08.5 barrier before long, and that someone is going to break the 2.08. I really, honestly, won`t be racing again for a while as me and my playstation will be separated by a few hundred miles.:bat

[RJ O'Connell]

héhé i know you were teasing Jay, so am i now with you :42.2 - 43.6 - 43.9 = 2.09.7 :D
i am entering sub 2.10 clan :banzai
Egads! I'm being beaten by an F3600 n00b!

OK, now I seriously need to get back to racing.

[Asayyeah]

me and my playstation will be separated by a few hundred miles.:bat
that's a good news :paperbag ;) you ll have plenty of scores to beat when you ll be back ( rapier Korodera updated :) )


Egads! I'm being beaten by an F3600 n00b!
Lol.
I am learning fast :banzai

[lunar]

Egads! I'm being beaten by an F3600 n00b!


Don`t even for a second fall for Arnaud`s noob claims - I remember him saying the same to me on Pure..... He may not know the tracks totally yet - but no-one can handle his negcon anything like Asa can. ;)


you ll have plenty of scores to beat when you ll be back

what you don`t know is that I will be lurking inside your local electricity sub-station with my hand on the big switch and the guards tied up in the corner, while my spy cameras will be keeping a close eye on your big TV, waiting until you`ve had a 42.0 and 42.9 first two laps on Karbonis - then *bang* - powercut in Le Havre. ;)

[Asayyeah]

Brilliant Stephen:beer
Can't stop laughing here : that's a good therapy for what i have héhé

[Lance]

I finally raced again for a bit while ago after several days of inactivity, and cut half a second off my racetime. 2:09.40 puts me in third place now. Still a long gap to second.

Laps were 42.7 - 43.4 - 43.3

Best lap is still unchanged at 42.3

[Asayyeah]

Great Lance :+ , your 2 last laps were regular, that is what i am missing on my racetime.
I'll do my best to get back my bronze crown ;)

[Lance]

I've improved my best lap to 42.2, equal to your current BL.

I just took 6 tenths off my best Feisar racetime:
43.6 44.8 44.5 - 2:12.9

[lunar]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbolapse.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karboracese.jpg

42.1 + 43.1 + 42.8 = 2.08.0

[q_dmc12]

aye carumba!!:o

[Asayyeah]

Ouch that hurts !
Freakin' fast flying ( FFF :D : have you got french roots :D )

Truly awesome result Stephen :clap: where do you think possible limits are?
No chance that your camera is doing quick mpeg movie? ( i presume you got the same pb as me for recording ntsc Wipeouts : ntsc VCR may possibly solve that)

[lunar]

Arnaud, if we put the best laps one after the other it would be 41.8 + 42.8 + 42.8 = 2.07.4. However, it`s possible that to get a 41.8 opening lap you have to turbo very early, borrowing speed from lap 2, and therefore couldn`t get a 42.8 on that. Maybe. Similarly, fast 2nd laps may borrow speed from lap 1 with late turbos on the opening lap. I don`t know.... but perhaps the limit (with this line and strategy) is somewhere between 2.07.4 and 2.07.8. I did manage to kick off one race with a 41.8 + 43.0, then saw the times, went "oh my gOd this is could be the ONE"..... and forgot to hit the first speed pad of lap 3. :paperbag



No chance that your camera is doing quick mpeg movie?

You`re right...... absolutely no chance whatsoever. ;)

I`m kidding.... I`ll try your recording method when I can borrow a DV camcorder. Many UK VCRs play NTSC, but won`t record it. Your rapier video was really good. :)

[Asayyeah]

but perhaps the limit (with this line and strategy) is somewhere between 2.07.4 and 2.07.8.
Gasp :blarg
I need to seriously work on it!

---

After 1 hour of practise , i cannot even be close of my lap & racetime, i don't know why exactly, seems this challenge is too difficult for me. I ll wait for Stephen's video.

[lunar]

Lance, a quick question..... when I get around to this can you watch YouTube videos on your dial up? What`s the max size of file you would be prepared to download?

[q_dmc12]

My latest video in it's youtube form (*.flv) is a little over 6 MB - initially DivX 6.6 compression at around 20 MB when uploaded.

Just thought I'd chime in and offer some outside info.:)

[lunar]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/sparks1000/karbof.jpg

42.0 + 42.7 + 43.0 = 2.07.7

And I have also loaded the ammunition for the other racers to shoot me down with.....

took me a LOT longer to make the videos than do the race, but anyway the action can be found here. (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=64743#post64743)

that`s IT. I officially announce my retirement from this challenge. Do your worst...... ;)

[Lance]

Hm... well, back a couple of years ago when there were a couple of old music videos that I really really wanted, I was able to get them in just under 3 hours per video. They were about 35 megs apiece and the connection was at its best. My current ISP disconnects its users every three hours, no matter what is being uploaded or downloaded, so the server must allow ''resumes''. I've never had success with YouTube, btw. Only was able to get videos from other sites or through P2P.

I dunno if I'm willing at this point to go over 15 megs, but the video doesn't have to be high quality to show the racing line, though the image should be fairly large even if the per frame number of pixels is small. For instance, the exact line at the end of the tunnel and starting down the hill would be of interest to me, but I'm not sure that the subtleties of nose control will show unless the view is outside the ship. [I always race with nosecam view, never seeing my ship at all.]

----------

sure sure. :rolleyes: If the Kween undercuts you by a tenth, I suspect you'll be back. :)

And BTW, that is an effin amAzing performance. Good on ya!

[q_dmc12]

42.0 + 42.7 + 43.0 = 2.07.7

And I have also loaded the ammunition for the other racers to shoot me down with.....

took me a LOT longer to make the videos than do the race, but anyway the action can be found here. (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?p=64743#post64743)

that`s IT. I officially announce my retirement from this challenge. Do your worst...... ;)

:oAH! I see thankyou sooo much!!:+

[Lance]

I d-elled the videos. I do almost exactly what you do, lunar; you just do it better, more consistently. I do notice 2 differences from what I currently do: I used to go to the right on the broken straight before getting to the hard left with the boostpad to the inside left at the end of the corner, but now I tend to stay more in the middle of the track and sometimes even left of center. The other difference I'm not so sure about, but it looks almost as though you nose-up at the jump at the break just before the beginning of the esses where there's a boostpad on the right side of the left that starts the esses. Since I've never seen my ship from the outside while racing, I don't know if it looks like it noses up that much even without making it do so.

[lunar]

Yes Lance, I do use nose up at the Buddha jump: slightly before take off, then releasing the down direction just before landing, which is just enough nose up to prevent a bump. On the short video, the hands are indicating which direction I`m pointing the ship`s nose at any time: up, down or neutral. There`s not a whole lot of pitch control, but where there is some it`s crucial to keeping the speed up.

[Task]

Wow. I'm pretty sure I passed "stunned amazement" when the top time was a second and a half slower, so I'm not even sure where I am now! 8 D

Those videos are excellent, great quality _and_ small size, apparently we can have it all!

*pointing microphone*
So, Stephen, if you're all done here, then where are you going next?
New challenges to tackle? Or just a bit of a vacation?

I imagine the 3rd place spot is going to continue to have some serious competition for the next little while...

[Mad-Ice]

Wow! What a great challenge this is. Amazing times from all of you, but of course especially from you Lunar :clap:rock This will take some time for someone to beat it! I myself can remember some few hours spent on a track called Staten Park. Time Trial, Rapier, race time, was a pain in the arse. Not even to talk about; Time Trial, Phantom, lap record.:sonar Greetings and hope to see you at the next Convention somewhere (Hopefully Liverpool)!!

[lunar]

So, Stephen, if you're all done here, then where are you going next?
New challenges to tackle? Or just a bit of a vacation?



Well, they say Firestar is lovely in the springtime. ;)

I will try to stay there when Asa, or the Kween, or someone else, beats this time. Without a new inspiration about technique or line I couldn`t do more than a very few tenths better. I did feel a bit of pressure on the last lap, then pulled myself together for the final turbo:rock. There are also parts of Karbo where 2 different lines can give you pretty much the same time, such as on the jump/turn before the Buddhas.


Matthijs I have noticed your recent exploits on Pure, of course ;) Some really :o :rocktimes there. Yes hopefully we can meet up for some friendly revenge in Liverpool next year. If you fancied a bit of system link-up WipEout venom karbonis I`be up for that too. :D

[Asayyeah]

Matthijs (...) If you fancied a bit of system link-up WipEout venom karbonis I`be up for that too. :D

He gonna practise with me this link-up when he will visit me this july ( 1 week before my usa trip) :hyper

Back on topic : Your vacation on firestar may last for a long time, even with your fantastic video guide in our 'hands' that shall be a too hard 'task' but as we know anything is possible !

[Medusa]

Well, here I am back after holidays and a week behind!:o Nice Race Lunar :clap (understatement of the year...)

Here's my new record - 42:0 - 43:2:p - 42:8 = 2:08:00

I won't bother with a picture because I know I can do better. Managed a 41:9 - 42:7 and then on third lap smacked into the precious wall with my turbo *bawls like baby*.

[lunar]

hope you had a nice holiday, had fun and relaxed.

well that`s over now...... :pirate ;)

nice time there, and that wall hit must have been a killer. I`ve been there. though I don`t think I`ve ever had quite such a good first two laps. You "only" needed a 43.0 to take the record. As ever it`s only a matter of time until you beat me, just don`t do it by too much, thanks. :)

[Medusa]

123 Here's what I am currently stuck at. 2:07:8 and holding, in various different combinations, but the most recent was a 42:2 - 42:7-42:9.

My most painful session yet because I had a blistering start to one race by taking back the lap record:hyper with a 41:7!!! then had a 42:9 and then all went to pieces with a 43:4:blarg finish. I think this challenge comes down to "who has the most balls to hit the turbo first". Lunar certainly has the edge in that department.;) I have trouble hitting the turbo in the sweet spot consistently on all three laps.

And thanks Lunar, I had a great holiday, except I came home with a cold which is slowly draining the energy out of me.:coffee

[Lance]

This is not for the TT challenge, but in case anybody is also interested in the SR mode, my new time is 2:12.6 - 46.5 43.4 42.7
The 42.7 is the current lap record, and the race time is the current record also.

The records will no doubt be held briefly; that is our custom here. :g

[Medusa]

124 42:2 - 42:7 - 42:8
I can't believe the effort it took to get the 2:07:7. I must have had at least ten 2:07:8 races, I have a blister on my pitch control thumb, and I haven't had a starting lap below 41:9 in probably four days! AAARRGH!!!:blarg

I will probably just stop at this insanity and hope it stays a tie. Karbonis has become the ultimate venom, slowly poisoning all your brain cells until all you can think is, "Maybe the next race I'll get it...just one more race..."

(I think you will hold that SR record for a fair bit, Lance. Something tells me so...)

[Task]

...So a perfect race would probably be 41.7 + 42.7 + 42.7 = 2:07.1
And that's looking like the ultimate achievable time. If it's even really achievable by human hands!

You know, it's not often that a definitive limit for a track can be found, but I'm fairly confident that that's what you two have done. Wow!

I unlocked Karbonis VR in pure today. It's nothing like it. I mean sure, the track is definitely the same, but besides that it's all different. 8 )

[q_dmc12]

the end S-curves are flat:cold - thats where I get messed-up

[lunar]

I will probably just stop at this insanity and hope it stays a tie.

I`m very happy with that idea! I`ve got a load of work to do, and would like some more relaxed races, and even some fun in my fat Auricom in my spare time. Well done - and awesome lap record too. :+ That really is a minimum time too, I`m certain.



...So a perfect race would probably be 41.7 + 42.7 + 42.7 = 2:07.1


I agree. I think that`s it - and that a good lap 1 requires a good smooth turbo, which in turn gives you a better lap 2 because of speed carried over, and so on, so the speed builds up. But sometimes some of the speed pads just don`t give you much va-voom, so it`s way too hard to do. ;)

[Lance]

I suspect that the current record shared by lunarandtheKween is not in immediate danger, though one never knows what Arnaud might suddenly do. ;) :g

Izzy: TEN!! 2:07.8 races? gasp. I would be proud to get even one sub 2:09.00 race. Hell, I'd be happy with a 2:09 flat. I don't know how you guys are doing it, even though I've seen what lunar did on his record video. I've tried it his way for 5 sessions and couldn't even equal my old best time.
GAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

Kween, I am shakin in my boots knowing that the pitch-control thumb will soon recover.

Meantime, I'm enjoying the fact that my best Feisar single-race lap equals the AG-S laps of um.. cough.. certain very hot pilots. [Who have been distracted from single-race by a certain TT challenge. :g ]
So I was able to sneak in a record by getting lucky. :)

[lunar]

one never knows what Arnaud might suddenly do. ;) :g


Indeed, the old Norman Conqueror has been at it again: taking XL Phantom Talons Reach, and taking over a second per lap off me at Silverstream. I do not like it, not one little bit. ;)

[stin]

Lance, I did try PAL version on Lunar`s video and I did tried really hard but they way he chose the lines and trying to control them which is no easy task but I am getting there.

Also, I`m starting to get addicted on that game because, the feeling of that game is so different compares to the rest of the games.

stevie:)