New King?

[JABBERJAW]

yep, Quantum Redshift. Better than xl,64,3 and fusion. sacriledge that this has happened? yes! Great physics, pitch control, speed, cool jump shortcuts put in on purpose. Got to go now but can explain later. Ask any questions and I will answer. I was very suprised how good this game was, definitely a reason to buy the x-box, that is unless nick burcombe has the physics completely changed :evil: :D

[Lance]

.
i notice that you didn't mention the original wipeout as being amongst the eclipsed. :)
.

[Wamdue]

sounds promising Al, do you know it will be released? and.. would it have any features reserved for the xbox-live stuff? and.. the ships look not that very good i think.. but they also seem to take up a lot of screenspace.. so.. hows it like playing it? does the ship size bother or?

[AmishRobot]

I've only gotten a look at a couple of the ship designs for it, but they didn't look too bad to me. Being a hood-cam player, the size didn't bother me much, except that the impression I got from their looks was that the physics might be a bit sloppy. Good to hear that's shaping up well. Were any of the weapons implemented in the demo, Al? What were your impressions of them?

Since E3, it's starting to look more and more like I'll be owning an xbox by the end of the year. It's really starting to shape up nicely in such a short amount of time. Now, what would be amazingly cool, is if Quantum Redshift allowed the use of that insane controller Capcom's making for their mech game Tekki. Imagine the control you'd get with two joysticks and three foot pedals! Hey, I can dream, right? :)

[Wamdue]

is TEKKI going to be released in EU and US? I dunno about that game tho, its got great visuals.. but, using cockpit view sucks.. i mean, theyve added some geeky pre animated gismos in the cockpit(wich doesnt look good) view that cuts down the view and thus prolly (havent tried it) makes the game a bit frustrating to control.

about Quantum Redshift.. seen some vids.. the gameplay looks solid.. but.. the ships.. they look uhm.. very "american".. big..shiny and with the US flag on it..´they look more like space-fighters than racing vehicles to me. the tracks look cool tho.

Amishrobot: heh, Halo alone is good enough to be worth the prise of an xbox ;) and coming titles like Project Ego, QR , Halo:Online , Mgs2:Substance are a few other reasons, well, the reasons I got it anyway hehe

[JABBERJAW]

The view you can change. It looks smaller on other views which is good

[JABBERJAW]

It is supposed to be released september 11th. I want to wait for an email before I explain the game a little more. It is better than wo1 :D . I can't say enough about this game, by far my most anticipated title. What I will say though is that even if wipeout fusion had proper wipeout physics with scraping like fusion except much slower, I still might like redshift better, but it would be close :D . The weapons had great effects, but there were not as much as in wipeout fusion. So I would say wipeout fusion may have better weapons, but redshifts are good. YOU can collect 3 different weapons at a time and if you have all of them filled up you get a super weapon. The graphics are also quite good, better than fusions? sometimes yes, sometimes no, but I only saw two tracks. I think fusion probably has a better atmosphere to it, but there is really only one thing that is the most important, and that is gameplay. To infox, it works well with the analog stick although you won't see me playing with it :P

[infoxicated]

I bet it would work well with the NegCon too... but we're not going to see anyone playing with that.

September seems a bit early to me, Al - Nick said it wasn't due until next year... but I guess stranger things have happened.

By Xmas time the X-Box should be around £150 anyway, so I might well treat myself to one then. We'll just have to wait and see - assuming there's anyone left here to see at the end of the year! ;)

Could it all be over for the Wipeout series?

Finally beaten at its own game by another game on another console... will the next Wipeout be reviewed as "a poor clone of Quantum Redshift"? Will there be a next Wipeout?

We'll have to wait even longer to see that one... :)

[AmishRobot]

Wamdue:
Tekki was shown at E3 under the name Steel Battalion, with a September release date. I don't know about a European release, but it sure sounds like we'll get it. I somehow doubt we'll actually see the controller though, which totally neuters the appeal of the game for me.

I played a few hours of Halo and actually didn't like it. It was fun with another person there, but it seemed too much like "clear a room, go down a hall... clear a room, go down a hall..." sometimes substituting an outdoor area with a room. The control kinda killed it for me too. I hate using joysticks on FPS's. The vehicles were cool though, and I can see where others would love it. There will be enough other reasons for me soon, though. Outside of QR, MGS2: Substance just might redeem the punishing blow that whiny glam kid and his overly-talkative girlfriend delivered to me last year, and the idea of a new Panzer Dragoon and a new Tim Schafer game (Psychonauts) has me all kinds of giddy.

And about the American look of the ships in QR: You got something against American? Throw a '69 Impala into a Volkswagen at 60 mph, and see which one survives!. ;) j/k

Infox:
Even if Quantum Redshift does turn out better, I think Wipeout will be still be considered the "granddaddy" of AG racing for quite some time. Here in the US, XL is still considered the peak of the genre.

And I'm sure some of us will still be here then, as long as you are. ;) Maybe you'll just have to turn WipeoutZone into an AG Racing site!

EDIT: Here's (http://www.antigames.com/articles/EpkkVEpFAyvrUOMODk.shtml) a detailed description of Tekki (Steel Battalion)'s controller - complete with pictures and video - for those that are interested. And here (http://www.armchairempire.com/images/previews/xbox/steel-battalion/steel-battalion-3.jpg) is an even more detailed pic. Imagine! Just think what it could be like, with a pedal for gas, one for each airbrake, separate joysticks for steering and pitch, triggers and thumb-buttons for weapons, and even a dial in the middle to switch tunes! Oh, to dream!

:P *droooool*

[JABBERJAW]

Maybe if you change the title you could keep the same format, but just add new forums for each game series or something. I like the setup of how it is now.

[infoxicated]

Yep, I could... but we're pulling almost 2 Gb of traffic a month at the moment... as nice as it would be, if we hit 5Gb a month it becomes something I cant afford to pay for.

It's going to be a difficult balance - sticking to Wipeout will probably see the audience decline over the years. Moving on to cover other games gives me a vast headache in terms of building and managing the site... and in terms of paying for the server too.

Unless the server package changes and the bandwidth doubles, the latter wont be an an option.

[Task]

Oh gawd no, don't add another series to this site! :D
Although I've gone through WO1, WOXL, and WO3, I just started on WO3:SE and I'll be getting Fusion in two weeks. I'm definitely gonna keep playing WO3 (after all, I have table position to maintain!) and I'm still going back to WO1 every now and then, I don't think I could add another game to the list!
Much more seriously, I'm sure that The 'Zone will surivive quite well for a long time as a pure Wipeout haven. Ya sticks to what ya know. Oh, wait, we need a 2000 version of that saying... We must focus on our core competencies! Yeah, that's it...
I'm sure I'll play XG3 and QR and lots of other games, but for as long as I can hold a Dual Shock (which will be a lot longer than I can hold my NeGcon, damn that thing hurts!) I'll keep playing Wipeout and I'll be here.
Untill I can ownzor the score tables, that is.
Which I imagine will be about... 23 years AFTER I DIE.
:lol:

[AmishRobot]

Unless the server package changes and the bandwidth doubles, the latter wont be an an option.
Well, I guess that answers that! lol :lol:

Wow, 2 Gig?!? None too shabby! I'd sure hate to see the site grow beyond your means, though. It's not like there are a whole lot of options to make a site self-sustaining anymore.

I can definitely see the headaches of adding other games. Most of them aren't worth it, anyway. If QR turns out to be as good as Al thinks, maybe one of us will get off our butt and build a sister site. :wink:

[infoxicated]

I checked the logs last night and we're back down to about 1.4gb after the heady heights of February and April where me and my bank manager were getting nervous.

Our server package gives 5Gb bandwidth a month - and I didn't think we'd ever run out of that, but since it is spread among fifteen other sites (mine and my server co-owners' sites) I feel a bit guilty when WipeoutZone is taking the lions share of the bandwidth.

AFAIK, Wipeout Fusion has pre-orders for 250,000 copies in North America... this site has a mention in every copy... so... traffic could go up before it goes down, if you know what I mean.

In anticipation of this it's why the competition wallpapers never made the downloads area... I'm trying to see how things pan out with the NA launch. :)

Anyhow - back to Al's topic... Quantum Redshift... did you know there are more things to hit than in the Freeform areas of Wipeout Fusion?

Considerign that was the thing that smegged me off most about 'Fusion... I don't think I'll be worrying myself with buying an X-Box! ;)

[Nick Burcombe]

Infox - that's not true. There are very few objects in the play area, most of which are tapered so you are forced either side of them and all of them are OFF the best racing line. As a second note (based on hitting objects in Fusion) you also don't lose sideways traction to the point of feeling like you're on ice in QR - so you can still steer around stuff - unlike Fusion. I think that was a bit of an unfair thing to say mate. Going "off-piste" CAN sometimes put you in bother, but until you've learnt the tracks - that's the same for any racing game. Hope you like the finished game none the less.

Nick

[infoxicated]

I think it was a fair enough thing to say when you're a fan of track based racing games, such as Wipeout, Wipeout 2097/XL and Wipeout 3/SE and you don't really want to collide with a tree when you're having a good race.

For that reason, I haven't really played Wipeout Fusion in a month or so, and I probably wont be playing QR either!

What can I say, I like my racing slightly pure - no shortcuts and no obstacles on the track. If I wanted to play SSX or Rumble Racing every time I turned on my console I'd stick one of them in there and glue the tray shut! ;)

The whole deal with what's troubling people with Fusion is the lack of purity about it. You can get a faster lap when you don't race well because of the catch up feature, your craft handles like crap on the freeform areas and the AI craft aren't affected, it's full of shortcuts which cant be turned off so you've no idea how somebody got a lap time... the list could go on forever.

It doesn't matter how well you do your obstacles or shortcuts or freeform areas or whatever - it doesn't make for a pure racing game IMHO. I find hitting stuff really, really frustrating. I find shortcuts really, really frustrating.

On first glance it looked like QR was track based... now I learn that it's not and it has obstacles... I'm not interested any more.

Nick, I hope your game does well for you - and I'm sure many people will enjoy it. But the experiment with all of the above has already been tried on me and I really hated it.

[Nick Burcombe]

Fair enough mate - buy F1 GP4 if you want racing purity - there's a lot of people gonna be setting some tough times on that. :)

N

[JABBERJAW]

I'd say give it a rental and see how you like it. The tracks are freeform like, but the obstacles from what I played are nothing like wipeout fusion and quite easy to get around.

[infoxicated]

Then I would ask "what's the point in them being there?"

Wipeout Fusion's obstacles are easy to get around when you remember where they are, but they add absolutely nothing to a race when you go round them and they totally ruin a race when you accidentally clip one.

So I'd stress again - for me they have no place in a pure racing game.

Games are getting totally bogged down with studios trying to out-special effect and gimick one another. It takes me back about ten years when the Amiga 1200 and 4000 came out with their AAA chipsets that could display millions of colours on screen at once. The games became a psychadelic puke-fest and it was ages before they calmed down and used the graphical power responisbly.

Sadly GT Concept has the exact same artificial stupidity that GT3 has, and ToCA proved to be pretty awful when I played it. But I'll keep looking for a game that is a true race experience - at the moment GP3 is proving fun, so GP4 should be good. Sony's F1 2002 looks promising from what I've seen so far. Then there's TD Overdrive and Need For Speed - I guess it's kind of fortunate that the market is flooded with racers.

Surely it's not too much to ask for in wanting one with fixed tracks, decent AI and graphics that isn't stuffed with gimicks?

[Wamdue]

im two-sided about the freeform areas, they can really ruin the zone mode, but, it looks kinda cool racing thru it with competitors ahead blowing up dust.. it added some atmosphere. But I really disliked the freeform areas in the ice-caves in fusion.. I spent a lot of time trying to learn them, but.. itll useally be just as good blowing right thru at top-speed and hoping for the best, cause its impossible to control the piranha satisfyingly there.

anyway, as Nick is watching this thread, and it is a QR thread, i thought id slip in a couple of questions about QR.

Will QR utilize Xbox Live? In comparison to the wipeout serie, how fast is it? I want it extremly fast ;)

[lunar]

I love the freeform areas. My first few times through the desert on Florion Height, with a pack of ships blowing dust in my face as I dodged in and out of the rocks... it was :D :D :D
Ice Cave the same, but I guess its just a matter of opinion.

back on topic though.... is QR just another EG3... lots of people say its a Wipeout-beater, but in the end it just lacks..... pzazz, zoom, thrills, if you know what I mean?

and if it does prove to be a worthy successor to Wipeout....... I don`t want to have to buy an X-box just to satisfy my lust for AG racing, so is there a chance of a version of Quantum Redshift coming out for the PS2? If it is so good it would make loadsa money.

And finally will it have a zone mode, by another name obviously?

[JABBERJAW]

With turbos on fastest speed it is faster than xg3, but you have to use the brakes and slow down alot like on gare deuropa for instance. So it is faster and slower than xg3. It is definitely faster than fusion except for the top zone speeds, it isn't that fast I don't think. Fast enough though.

[FoxZero]

there are playstation controller port converters for the xbox, you can find them at electronics boutique. maybe this would allow you to play qr with negcon? or would there have to be software support too? could this be implemented into the game? negcon has always been a small population of players but the support seems to be strong and developed into most games.

im looking forward to playing this game on my xbox. yes i too was not impressed with the ship designs, but when you have fullscreen on it only matters in the replay. and there better damn well be a good replay system. one that can record too, because it pisses me off that you cant record in rallisport challenge and my friend and i have had some amazing races in that game.

will you guys have any kind of track editor or anything? that would be really awesome. anyway, glad to hear there will be more anti-gravity racing to come in the near future although sadly under a different game name :) im sure ill get over it

[AmishRobot]

Then I would ask "what's the point in them being there?"

Whoah! Stand down there, Tex! :lol:


So I'd stress again - for me they have no place in a pure racing game.

If Wipeout were a "pure" racing game, there wouldn't be weapons. Maybe you turn them off, but I sure as hell don't.

For me, the purity of Wipout is in the speed and atmosphere. Obstacles can greatly enhance the sensation of speed. The can also completely destroy the whole experience, so they do have to be used with care, but fundamentally I don't mind them.

I'm not too hip on shortcuts, but as long as they're consistent, I don't mind. I can't stand shortcuts that switch on and off.

Now for the question: Are any of the obstacles destructable?

[infoxicated]

The weapons are all part of the parameters you race in.

In the previous Wipeouts before fusion, everyone had the same weapons. With Wipeout Fusion those parameters are variable due to special weapons.

If the very clever AI pilot with a grudge against me hunts me down and hits me with a weapon then that's fine - I'll get him back next lap. This adds to the race experiece. It's exciting - it adds depth and means that every race can be different. If I stay between the left wall and the right wall I can race to the limits of the track and the craft and the weapons add a little spice.

True, Weapons might not be as pure as racing without weapons. But when they are within the rules of the game and add to the experience, it's cool - it creates atmosphere - it would excite a future crowd.

If you hit a tree, whadyagoannado?

I cant hunt the tree down and get some revenge - there would be no point and it wouldn't be very exciting either.

And even if I can blow the tree up?

What does that add to the racing? Wouldn't I prefer to be racing instead of blowing up the tree?

I'm sorry, but no one is ever going to convince me that having obstacles on the track makes for a good racing game. It might make for a Mickey Mouse racing game, it might well be fun - it would probably be called "Kraazeee Mario Super Mega Kart Party" or something equally as puke inducing, but I don't believe it makes for a good hard core racing experience.

Which as a Wipeout fan is what I'm after.

[FoxZero]

i think infox has hit one too many obstacles recently ;)

[AmishRobot]

Okay infox, you got me. That's actually a damn good argument. Pretty funny, too. :)