Is the original Wipeout the best?

[replicashooter]

Currently addicted to Wipeout Pure and am thinking of buying a PSone to play the first incarnation.

How does it compare?

[kekken3]

I'm totally addicted to some of the music of the first. Haven't seen the game running since we switched to 2097, but rediscovering Messij in the downloadable packs for Pure was blessing. I was just about to quit trying Pure - didn't really like it, but after hearing the first 15 seconds of that song all the greatest Wiepout moments - the greatness of the game, now buried under almost 10 years, instantly came back. I can now retry a race a million times with that song on. :hyper

[Task]

Well... "the best" for what?

Not that it really matters, what you really want to know is if it's worth it to get a PS1 and the original WO, and the answer to that is "like, totally!"

For pure challenge, you're not going to beat WO1. None of the sequels have been as difficult to master, or given so much back for your mastery.

Most important though is that you'll need a PS1 to play WOXL and W3O. And that WO trilogy (the first 3 combined) is definitely "the best". I'm not sure anyone would argue with that. 8 )

[Shem]

hmm, I, considering myself the "Original Wipeout" expert (you may start laughing now) can tell you this:


W'O" is a classic. If you want to feel the exact feel of this game, you'd have to jump into a flying Delorean and go back in time to see what gaming was all about back then. W'O"'s graphics were awesome. The music was off the hook. The gameplay was incredible, although some people complained about the difficulty level (every wall-hit literally stopped you). The game had its unique feel, it was really innovative, the design was futuristic. It's a kind of feel that you get only when you're fresh into gaming, and all of a sudden you see the holy grail of one genre (futuracing in this case). It's like being hit by a lightning and asking for more. That's how it was back then for many of us here.

So you see, it's impossible to recreate that feeling, simply because if you look at W'O" now, all you're gonna see is crappy graphics, crappy gameplay, crappy music, and the overall crappyness of the game. You're gonna see all that if you don't have any respect for the game that is. But if you set yourself in the times when the game got released, you're going to feel it. Don't expect the game to make you go back to good old times if you didn't experienced them. Don't expect the game to get you back in time, 'cause you have to get yourself back in time first to understand it. If you can do that - you're going to get it. And i don't mean 'get it' as in 'ok, i played the game, looks funny, but it's the original Wipeout alright'. You're going to get it on a higher level, so you'll undestand why some of us are here for years and still play the game, why some of us still identify themselves with the original teams like AG Sys. ;)

I know it may sound weird to say the least, but this is how it goes. Wipeout is a piece of history, and it's difficult to compare it to the latest sequels. These are still anti gravity crafts floating over the track, racing with each other, and shooting their asses off. The rest is different since the Original Wipeout.

I'm telling you, try to get that feeling from the original game, and you'll understand everything.


PS. I don't care if I sound like a geek. I'm a wipeout geek. A proud one.

[The Ultimate Machine 244]

If you like the original Wipeout so much join my challenge in the Arena under the title of New Member New Challenge

PS. Shem, I like what you said about the original one. It really does take me back to when I was younger and entertained by the game. I am still entertained by it today as well. I could really use a guy like you in my challenge. I have to agree with you about AG Systems which is why I am going to change my Avatar. Your words have helped me to appreciate the original Wipeout more.

[The Ultimate Machine 244]

Currently addicted to Wipeout Pure and am thinking of buying a PSone to play the first incarnation.

How does it compare?

Hey replicashooter, if you want to really experience the full thrill of the first Wipeout find a Sega Saturn and the original Wipeout for it. I recomend you look for both of these on E-bay

[Lion]

the saturn versions of the game are a LOT harder to come by than the versions for playstation. also since playstation opens you up to playing wip3out(se) as well it's probably a better prospect than a saturn.

though if you want a PAL saturn, I have 3, and am willing to part with 2 of them :P

edit: trying again to buy them off ebay, hopefully I'll do better this time. anyone had any experience trading with hacksaw_jim?
buying wipEout and wipEout2097 for saturn off him (he's somewhere in the UK)

also: shouldn't this thread be under Wipeout rather than Wipeout Pure?

[Lance]

also: shouldn't this thread be under Wipeout rather than Wipeout Pure?

You are correct sir. I'm going to move it to the WipEout [Original] section.

[q_dmc12]

My wipeout addiction started with WO64 (N64 port of woXL/2097), but my addition was strengthened by WO3 - which btw is still my #1 fav to this day! ;)

I never got a chance to play the original - I bought a used copy of it but it doesn't work. :frown:

[Lance]

PS. I don't care if I sound like a geek. I'm a wipeout geek. A proud one.

In my opinion, geeks are generally the best people. [I may be biased. ;) ]

BTW, my first Wipeout was W3O, and I had much the same reaction to it as other people had to the original. [I didn't start playing videogames till year 2000.] I started my first race, and the floaty feel, the near silence of the ships, the surpisingly delicate noise of energy-shields scraping the walls, just made me think: I'm in another world from the one I've always lived in; this is different; this is the future.
It was great!

[piranha wiper]

its a personaly opinion, there can be countless threads about which WO is the best. i like the first one because its vintage, its the same with all these new technologys for cars, traction control, anti slip diffs etc. wipeout doesnt have any of the stuff that the rest do, such as the wall scraping (but thats mainly a matter of physics than technological advances) no health bar and no power booster from the health.

musics still the best tho

[Lance]

I like old cars without traction control; the driver gets to drive them instead of letting the computer do it. Real-life drivers should have to pass performance tests in non-computered cars, so when the computer control systems fail in everyday driving emergencies, the driver won't. We have too many unskilled drivers out on the roads already. Here in the U.S. at least.
End of rant/return to topic. :D

[Zerow]

My first WipEout experience was a demo of 2097. I was utterly hooked; I barely ever played any of the other demos on the disk. It took me a while to get 2097 though - the first full WipEout game I purchased was Wip3out. I'll never forget the elation I was in after my first few races. :D

As for the original, it demands just as much respect as any of the other WipEouts and ought to be checked out by all. For one thing, it kick started my most loved videogame series in history. :+

[Dominator]

You gotta love the original wipEout!! for without this absolute classic the world of WO would not be!! Thanks Psygnosis :D :clap and thanks Shem for a wonderful and fitting tribute!! :D

[daminmancejin]

playstation 1 wipeout games are the best i hate the new wipeout games they corny is heck i stay playing Wipeout 1 and 3

[eLhabib]

Shem, you couldn't have put it in better words! Your post exactly sums up the original wipE'out'' for me, and the reason why I still love the series. :clap

[Shem]

glad to hear it, thanks:)

[ace-of-spades]

I wouldnt say it is the best (wip3out for me), but it can hold it's own. The difficulty makes it one for the hardcore, haha!

[qirex-rd]

Yes, I think the first WipEout was the best. Why?

I has realistic colors, not the techno design of WipEout 2097,
not the dead architecture as in Wip3out, not the cartoon
style as in WipEout 64, not the boring 'cant-fly-but-has-doors-on-the-track'
Fusion Style, and the neo-Wip3out look of WipEout Pure.
The first WipEout has wide tracks, and allows you to jump more
than in Pure. Ok, thats also possible in 2097.
The controls are bad, and the ships in 2097 are great, but
it has the best atmosphere.
The best would be: A PSP / PS3 port of the first WipEout,
with the 2097 ag ships, the 2097 handling, the tracks out
of the first one, 2097, a few 3out and 64, with the colors
of the first, the music of 3out & 2097, and also the 1st
(no Pure music please) - and I would buy it, even for 200 bucks.

Please Psygnosis release the 2097 artworks someday you had
planned for 2097 (I have a few EDGE pictures scanned).
Its sad that Sony decided to release 3out on PSX instead on
PS2 - that was a mistake, I think. Im writing too much.

[Lance]

We would have had to wait a very long time for WO3 if we'd had to wait for a PS2. Just think how much time there would have been to screw up the game if they'd had second thoughts about the game because of new possibilities of the newer machine. Look what happened with Fusion. I'm glad that everything from WO to WO3 appeared on the PSX.

[qirex-rd]

Maybe youre right. I couldnt wait to get my hands on
3out, but a 3rd part with the graphics of Fusion would
have been better. Imagine the SFX of Fusion in 3out.
Kick the design, ships and physics out of Fusion and
let the things of the 3rd part in - voila: WipEout Perfect for PS2.
I hope that WipEout 6 doesnt get to much train-controlling like in
3out. Fatal Inertia seems to be a more cartoon like FZero GX,
which feels like guiding the landscape around a bullet with a hand,
with stupid background music.
I think I know the future of WipEout: WipEout Underground with
Style points, time freezing and no Gameplay. Thats sad.
I want 100.000.000 € and pay each former Psygnosis programmer
one million to reunite again and make a REAL WipEout.
Its late now, and Im going to upload another WipEout movie
(Karbonis - Rapier - Qirex).

[Medusa]

YES. IT IS.

It is not my favourite wipeout in the series, likely very few would say it is their favourite, but I believe that WipEout was definitely the best of the series so far.

-As has been mentioned, it has the most realistic colouring and backgrounds. It doesn't stretch our limits of believing what the future has in store too much at a time.
-It is the most focused of the series. You cannot get lost on various goose chases. Unlock the game through Championship Race. Period.
-None of the other games requires such a perfection of racing line to get and maintain a fast speed in your ship. No wall bumps, no hyperthrust to make up for mistakes, no pit lane, no eliminating opponents...this game is PURE racing. Go fast and perfect or you are lost.
-There is no "supership" in this game and the ships are all fairly evenly matched. The Qirex with top speed has the lowest handling (turning is akin to having a dogsled hitched up to nitrous-oxide-fed dogs, except there is a moose carcass dragging along on either side of the dogsled...), even the slow FEISAR makes it up with top handling on Rapier class.
-The AI are not moving pylons like in XL. They block you a lot until you leave them in the dust.
-This game has my favourite/most hated sound effect in the whole series - the wall hit. A sickening "PHUNK" as your ship crashes to a stop on the track. Nothing is so real as that sound. Well done, I say.

So there's my reasons.

[infoxicated]

...turning is akin to having a dogsled hitched up to nitrous-oxide-fed dogs, except there is a moose carcass dragging along on either side of the dogsled...
You're becoming a regular quote machine. :) :+

[Medusa]

:redface: That was the only thing I thought could possibly resemble the way the nasty Qirex handles. Sadly I gave it a lot of thought.:p

[DawnFireDragoon]

i maintain that if you master the first WipEout, you'll be a pro at all the sequels. if you so much as skim a wall you stop dead, it makes you a good pilot. :)

[q_dmc12]

turning is akin to having a dogsled hitched up to nitrous-oxide-fed dogs, except there is a moose carcass dragging along on either side of the dogsled...

ROFL!!:clap

That is my top quote for the week, I am going to pin this on my wall!:p

[Chill]

I agree with emerald dragoon, Wipeout is like a training simulator, which is actually harder than the sequals when it comes down to more detail in controlling your tight torque on turns, the turning get more sensitive the longer you hold it, giving this game the very good quality of being able to train on turning controls down to the tee before going fast.

[RJ O'Connell]

Of the PS1 trilogy, I'm going to state my reasons why this is the best in the series.

Challenge: Racing WO is absolutely nothing like XL and W3. Think about it. No shortcuts - the Wusswagon resets you almost immediately. No grinds - it's a dead stop if you scrape the wall, but a good pilot - even one who has absolute **** record times compared to Medusa or Lunar and has a primitive D-pad, like myself, can adapt in time. Even at Rapier Class I can manage a perfect run at tracks as hard as Arridos! It's definitely a rewarding challenge, the most rewarding in my opinion. Because anyone can race shortcuts and be fast in WipEout games, but few can run the track with the same success. And for those that can do both, that's cool.

Oh, and did I mention that single race mode is not just a timed run with 11 other craft, but an actual challenge?

Straightforward Play: W3 has the most tedious method of unlocking and achieving of any game I've played. But WO is just straight "win the championships, beat the game."

Balance: This is the most important aspect. No other game has a track where the fastest times are usually set by FEISAR craft. Unlike any game after it, you have to use different machines that suit the track the best to be #1 on the timesheets. It's not a test of simply picking the supership, or the one with the highest speed rating. So many other factors play in too.

Tracks: I could go on about how Silverstream is the hardest track ever concieved (and unlike Spilskinanke, doesn't always induce feelings of anger.) I could go on about how Altima VII is the most breathtaking and exciting first track in the history of the series. Terramax feels like a true work of art, Karbonis - as demonstrated in the TT challenge - has little intricate parts that make it a bigger challenge than people expect. Manor Top? Staten Park? P-Mar? You can have them. This is the best seven circuits in a WipEout game.

Misc: With pilot avatars, it actually feels sometimes in SR and Championship like I'm racing actual racers. When I run against the anonymous machines in every other game, even Fusion, I feel like I'm racing bots. That's not the point of the game, obviously, but it is nice to know that there's a master pilot in the cockpit, and not some dude in a secret base running the thing with a remote control. (This is why I usually push for pilot avatars in future games, oh, but to no avail. :()

There's mine. Let's continue to hear yours.

Ballistic AntiGravity Racing. WipEout. F3600 Racing League. Rock on.

[Chill]

Yet another post... but it's such a great game!! anyways...

The track design, absolutely brilliant, seem to coincide with the team avatars, music, and selection menu so well. The entire game give a brilliant atmospheric vibe, one more out of this world than any other of it's series. Perhaps because it was the first Wipeout I've ever felt in love with, but I still go back to it and fall in love with it all over again. This is one of those classics, that like the first Tomb-Raider and Resident Evil, will never lose it's depth. As said earlier, like something out of this world. :D

[Mark Of Insanity]

I want to add my own comments to this thread that is over a month into hibernation.

Wipeout is my favourite game of the series. Period.
But I disagree that being good at this game means that you are good at all the sequels.
I'm a fairly good WO1 player, but put me in command of a WO3 ship and I'll blow it up or come in last. Simple reason is that I cannot use Hyperthrust.

But that's why I love the original. It's so simple, no hyperthrust, no wallscraping, no weapon absorbing or dropping and no eliminations. The weapons help, but they're not obstrusive and you only need the buttons for accelerate, use weapon, left and right airbrakes, turning... and that's it.
But that doesn't mean that it's boring or unimaginative...

It has more realistic enviroments (bar Firestar), but they're exciting and interesting ones. Not much can beat powering down Altima's big dip, or cleanly sliding through the Silverstream Hairpins in a Qirex. Or, as you ride through the fast speed up pads of Korodera, your opponent flies into the wall from a powerful rocket you just fired, and you drive past their crashing racer with the lead in your hands. Through the diving chicanes of Karbonis and boosting over the jumps... it's a raw racing experience, and I love that.
It's a true test of racing skill, getting the right line to airbrake through a sweeping turn and hit every speed pad.
Oh and the ships are cool too.

[zargz]

I't s the best coz it's the hardest to beat!
why is this the hardest wo ever to beat?
coz of all of the reasons already mentioned above but ..
the main reason imo that somehow everyone missed 8)
is that there's no autospitpilot to hold your hand through the hardest parts! :mr-t

[RJ O'Connell]

Of course, the part about autopilot you forgot is...

...and especially in Wipeout XL and Wip3out...

...sure, it'll hold your hand through some tough corners, but if it's disengaging and you're coming up on one that'll require decel/airbrake, the deactivation will actually give you an annoying burst of speed into the wall before you can react, resulting in *THUD*. X_X

[zargz]

disengage it your self on a straight! you gotta plan those kinda things! :)
but yeh i don't like it .. :mad:

[Chill]

Ya, mabye if their was a training mode, but I don't wanna feel like a little kid on a bike with training wheels all the time... ;)

[zargz]

http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/lol.gif LOL!!! this must be a worthy wo-quote!

chill about AP: Yeah, I'd use it .. but I don't wanna feel like a little kid on a bike with training wheels all the time! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/lol.gif

[RJ O'Connell]

I know I can disengage the autopilot whenever I want.

Dropping the autopilot altogether is much easier.

But anyway, back to WO1...

[Mark Of Insanity]

Not having the Autopilot just makes WO1 even more of a pure test of skill than the others.

It's a great game because even sliding into the walls stops you dead, meaning that only players that can stay well within the limits of the tracks but still keep a good line can win. Weapons are used as tools, not to eliminate the opponent altogether (sp?), which really, is what they're good for. I don't fire rockets at opponents in XL to destroy them, but to slow them down. And that's what they're good for in WO1. The boost system is great too, no barrel rolls or hyperthrust to confuse, just a great big boost.

To keep good line, not crash, hit all the speed pads and use the boost weapon at the right places is a great combination for speed and thrill.

Besides those points, it feels alot more like a spectacle. Not too dark, so it feels like a real event, with the crowd and the announcer. The rivalries too, are small but make a difference. The ships that are customised to each pilot is a nice touch and makes more alot more diversity than would otherwise appear, as the ship designs are sleek, but with fewer cosmetic differences between teams.

I've spoken for too long again already.

[RJ O'Connell]

To add to the spectacle, there's other little nuances like fictional billboards of the future (as well as some cheap in-game promo billboards), and the distinct look of all the tracks, and the day/night switch for almost every track in class...

[blixabargeld]

a little remake for psp store of the first wipeout, with new hd graphic(just that, maybe in cell shading) would be really nice..

[Lance]

I would lOve to see cel-shaded WipEout 1. !!!! I've always been a huge fan of the near-abstract Prototype racing that was a bonus in W3O.

[blixabargeld]

love that too :)
... and wouldn't be a betrayal to the "spirit" of the game

[XpanDrome2097]

I really love the first WipEout.
It's very challenging in despite of all its bugs (the physics especially), but it feels flawless as the same time.
It has one of the best track design for me, and the game needs a lot of practite if you want to dominate the race.
The soundtrack is really cool, all the tracks by CoLD SToRAGE are flawless and "Wipeout (Petrol)" is one of my favourite WipEout hymns.
It's absolutely raw but it has an incredible primordial appeal that makes me feel amazed at every play.
I really love the general design and the "retro" feeling.
I love it :+.

[JABBERJAW]

what are the bugs with the physics?

[Medusa]

Same here...my reaction:

BUGS IN WIPEOUT !???? :eek What did I miss? :lol

[SonicChaos]

This was the game that got me into the dance, electronic music genre. This was also the intro to my Wipeout Addiction. While IMHO it's nowhere near the best, it does hold the nostalgia factor. The Physics were beyond messed up and made the game WAAAAAAY more difficult than it had to be (seriously, I just touch the wall and I come to a dead stop? WTF?). Still it was fun and lead to improvements and my favorite down the road (I'm looking at you Wip3out).

[XpanDrome2097]

Sorry, my fault :lol!
I've used the wrong english term, probably "imprecisions" would be better.

With this term I mean:

- the ship lose a big part of speed if you hit a wall, this is really frustrating;
- the incredible boost that you could obtain if an opponent hits the back of your ship...excessive (more efficient than the regular boost weapon) :eek!

But for the rest all feels perfect.

[JABBERJAW]

For that specific game, I like those physics, the game is much slower than the sequels (more slippery though), and needed a challenge, hence the difficulty with the walls. That is why I believe a large discrepancy in the leaderboards comes from. One hit, what, maybe two seconds lost. gives you a reason to stay off the wall. Xl was better, it gave you some leeway with the scraping, but a hard hit still stopped you, which is good. There are parts of hd where hard nose hits don't stop you, or slow you down as much (they do in pure and pulse though). IF they did slow you down more, you would see a larger gap between the top few pilots and the rest. For example, my time on cheng reverse is about 3 seconds behind yeldars, but with a woxl wall physics system, after watching his video and mine, he would be maybe 7 seconds ahead instead. I would like a happy medium of HD and wo1, that would be cool, A little more scraping than xl, but still the hard wall hits to arrest your speed more.

Mainly though, I like that in wipeout 1 because it seems to be almost impossible to hit a REAL perfect race, all laps the same time I mean

[MrSmadSmartAlex]

But I didn't hit any walls when I tried Altima VII TT best lap (Venom), and ran a really nice tight lap, and I'm 5 ****ing seconds behind your time! :lol

Totally agree about the best way wall hits should affect speed. The walls that suck you in in the new games, in Pulse especially, are crap compared to scraping being allowed (with minor speed loss) IMO, and a hard wall hit should mess up your speed much more than it does.

[leungbok]

There are parts of hd where hard nose hits don't stop you, or slow you down as much (they do in pure and pulse though)
True, that's not very logical ! It seems that only wall's hits really counts (for real loss of speed and perfect lap achievement) !
First wipeout's wall hits have too much effect IMO !

[JABBERJAW]

yes, a happy medium would be great with a new game. Hard wall hits should smash your speed. No getting sucked into the walls (hd/wo3/pulse). Maybe grinding more, not sure, but perfect laps should be noticed in your times significantly. Wipeout 1 was slow enough so a scrape I think would have made the game too easy (saturn version :) )

That altima time was a test of what could be done. There are many pitch up/down, brake light taps in that run. Straight racing I was much farther back before I figured out those nuances. Someone had entered a time, that we did not believe, and it turned out it was possible, and faster at that. However that time that was entered was actually a false time, or more acurately not a ps1 time. It was that ps3 version, which is different.

[Autechom]

What I really like is the design of the tracks. Ok, maybe a bit too much "green" compared to others Wipeouts. But in generell, I really like the length of the tracks. Not as short as newer ones. Music is fine as well. Though the consequences of hitting the wall are a little to harsh imho.Though the first one is at the lower end of my personal Wipeout-sclae, I will always prefer it over Fusion : )