New Weapons

[Superfreak]

This is probably already a thread, but i havent seen it yet, so wot kind of weapons do u think could should be on wipeout(e.g laser?)

P.S If laser is already in one of the games, sorry.
:rock

[Lance]

.
there is already a thread for this sort of thing, though it is for all features rather than discussing any particular one. it's in this same Wipeout Future section, and is just called Wipeout Ideas. weapons are just one of the future features discussed in it. team superweapons, in particular, have been much talked about.
.

[infoxicated]

In Fusion there was an orbital lazer, which was Auricom's super weapon, if memory serves me.

It'll be interesting to see whether the franchise becomes a weapons festival, or reigns it in further to concentrate more on the racing. For me Pure is almost there - a few less weapons pads or a few more seconds between re-activation of the pads and the game would have been way more about the racing than about the pick-ups.

I hope they have a selection of weapons that are fitting of the setting/timeline, and are spectacular without getting too much in the way of the race. For me, anything that brings you to a dead stop is a big no-no.

[Sausehuhn]

I'm more or less happy with the WipEout Pure weapon system. But as you said, Rob, the dead stop is not really something good.
But all in all I'm happy with the use of weapons in Pure - way better than in Fusion (even when the weapons are just really annoying in Fusion when you've just started the game, because the damage they give to you does not go up with the energy you get when you're custormizing your craft).

So, I'm happy with the Pure weapon balance, no real stops would be better, sure, maybe for the next WipEout.

As long as we get back the floaty feeling back with the next WipEout I'm happy if they would keep Pure's weapon balance.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Agreed, stuff like the grav-stinger and gravity bomb really took some of the balance out of the game. I think the weapons inertia effect needs some tweaking as well, in Pure it feels like the craft is still drifting long after the weapon has hit, and getting hit on an open section means you're definitely going over the edge. I like the feeling of being slammed all over the track by weapon fire, but it needs to be in moderation as every weapon now feels like it will grind you to a halt if it hits you in the right place.

[username]

i liked thwe wo3 version of weapon pads, some flash green and yellow, this meant that you would get a defensive weapon, but if the pad flashed green and pink then you would get an offensive weapon. i liked this very much, and yes. as said above: i would also like to see more seconds before re-activation.
what do you lot think?

[Sausehuhn]

the colors says which weapon you get?! Didn't know that yet!

In terms or design: please pring back good looking weapon (and speed) pads. Best: take the Fusion ones - these are by far the best looking pads in all WipEouts (imo), very detailed and with bright and flashy colors. One of the good things Fusion has.

look:
01 (http://ps2media.ign.com/media/previews2/image/wipeout/wipeout_18.jpg)
02 (http://ps2media.ign.com/media/e32001/image/europe/wipeout/wipeout_6.jpg)
03 (http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2002/playstation2/wf/wf_screen060.jpg)
and one more good thing in Fusion:
04 (http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2002/e32002/playstation2/wipeoutfusion/wipeoutfusion_screen019.jpg)

[username]

btw: the colour coded pads are only in wip3out ;)
but i like the idea of the old fusion pads, and they MUST be turned back to the old blue (not white lol).
but imo: i would like to see the wipeout 3, or 2097 pads be returned

but onto new weapons i have an idea about what i would like to see in the future: the force wall, and energy drain should come back again in my opinion, what do you think?

[CR4SH3D]

forcewall was cool since you didnt actually STOP but it did throw you back a little too much

i loved the plasma bolt, especially in i think 2097 it was pretty hard to use but rewarding, should make them ALMOST dead though, like instand 5% sheilds or something

maybe grav mines that draw you too them a little (were they in fusion?)

[infoxicated]

In Superman 2, Superman throws a kind of plastic sheet at one of the badies (not sure whether it was General Zod or the mute guy) and it wraps them up but then disappears. I think the force wall would work well like that - kind of causes drag, but then fades away - the W3 dead stop effect was just too severe, especially at Phantom level.

[username]

forcewall was cool since you didnt actually STOP but it did throw you back a little too much

i loved the plasma bolt, especially in i think 2097 it was pretty hard to use but rewarding, should make them ALMOST dead though, like instand 5% sheilds or something

maybe grav mines that draw you too them a little (were they in fusion?)

the instruction manual says that they do drag you into them, but i actually stopped and went near them, they dont do anything atall, they only make you spin around :dizzy . has anyone here been drawn to the mines in fusion, or had the same effects as me?

[Sausehuhn]

yes.
In Fusion, when you're too close to a mine (but actually don't hit it), the mine will drag the ship into the mine so you will take damage.

...all these screens and discussion makes me wanna play Fusion again - I just LOVE these racing tracks!
(shut up, Fusion haters ;) )

[Superfreak]

Well, force wall is a pretty good idea. But how about a teleport. A kind of mix between autopilot and turbo. Its controled and its quick. Of course you would need to have a restricted distance in which u can teleport, so that u cant just teleport the entire race.:rock :guitar :rock

[username]

in my opinion the teleport is a terrible idea! i think it would only remind me of fusion all over :brickwall , but a good imagination you have :D . but i think that the autopilot should last for ALOT longer than in the other wipeouts, in pure it only lasts 5 seckonds! i think that it should last about 15 seckonds, also the plasma bolt should take longer to charge and you can abort it, eg: while it is charging, and before it fires - if you hit the square button then it would dissipate into the air, it wouldnt really be usefull but i think that it would add a good effect of realism to the game. for eg: if while charging the ship accidently span out and aimed at the audience the pilot could cancel to save his fellow supporters! what do you lot think?

whew that was a long post!

[Airrider]

In Superman 2, Superman throws a kind of plastic sheet at one of the badies (not sure whether it was General Zod or the mute guy) and it wraps them up but then disappears. I think the force wall would work well like that - kind of causes drag, but then fades away - the W3 dead stop effect was just too severe, especially at Phantom level.
Something along the lines of this, maybe?

Chute Mine

Upon impact, this mine latches on to a target and unfurls a parachute. The chute drags down the opponent and messes with their handling for a few seconds, then jettisons itself.

And for my own idea, how about something like this?

Flashbang Missile

A missile that causes minimal damage, but messes with an opponent's vision for one or two seconds. Kind of like a homing disruption, with only one effect available.

[username]

i dont like the idea about the parachute mine, but i LOVE your idea on a homing vision disruptor :banzai , what do you think about my idea about plasma bolts (the post above yours)?

[Hellfire_WZ]

Thing is, I think weapons that only have any real effect on human opponents as opposed to AI should be multiplayer only. That's what really annoyed me with the disruption bolt, hit an AI opponent with it and it does very little, but get hit with it yourself and it could be the end of your race.

[username]

yes very true, for eg: a vision disruptor hits an ai contender, it has basically 0 effect!

[fusionfrenzy]

I have to agree with Hellfire, I don't like the idea of something in the main game which can't really affect the AI (the damned disruption bolt being the perfect example).

Pure seems to have the balance pretty well- although I would like a bit more variation in weapons; most races go like "mines, absorb, bomb-deploy here, rockets-fire, missiles-lock and fire, plasma-absorb" etc etc, it becomes a little predictable. There should be a fairly common weapon good for all situations, more common than a quake but not as damaging. A forward-firing projectile which causes no direct damage when it hits craft, but is the equivalent of each ship in sight going through a mine or two. Not disruptive, but it could be useful.

[Lion]

I think pure could get it bang on simply by altering the relative drop rates.

some of you might remember (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2397) that I made a spreadsheet (http://pages.quicksilver.net.nz/lion/other/WipEout.PurE.xls) to generate some stats from the stats in pure... the more time put into play the more accurate they are, so mine are better now than when I last posted them, but there are others among you for whom this would be a LOT more accurate:


pickups pickup rate %used
autopilots 634 4.58955% 89.59%
turbos 2772 20.06660% 91.56%
shields 1209 8.75199% 89.25%
missiles 997 7.21732% 74.62%
quakes 210 1.52020% 86.67%
rockets 5223 37.80947% 15.49%
bombs 706 5.11076% 87.11%
mines 1026 7.42725% 78.75%
disruptors 708 5.12524% 44.77%
plasmas 329 2.38164% 59.57%

hrmm, in my mind I was thinking "maybe pure needs to allow us to pick up more rockets" but it's already nearing 40% of my pickups, guess I just don't use them enough

[infoxicated]

Where's the absorbed stat?

I call the autopilot the absorbopilot, 'cos that's all it's good for. :)

[username]

lol, i use it in the hard aprts of the track, but, yes usually that is all it is normally good for

[Lion]

the autopilot is ok if it's used in the right places, as you can see I've used 89.59% of the autopilots I've picked up. it's not as useless as I think most of us dismissed it as initially.
sure it has some shortcomings, especially compared to the AP from previous versions of wipeout, but most of those can be worked around

I find amazingly frequently that if I use an AP, I will pick up a turbo while it's active. the turbo can often be used through tricky bits that there's no way in hell I could pilot it through (on turbo) as a human... sometimes that's useful in multiplayer to pass someone

[username]

yes, some good points lion!

[Superfreak]

Where's the absorbed stat?

I call the autopilot the absorbopilot, 'cos that's all it's good for. :)

That is why i think we should have teleport. Something that is useful

[username]

well, if the game really HAD to have a teleport function. i think that it would have to be done in a very carefull way - also if it was to be too much like the auto-teleportation in pure and fusion it wouldnt go down too well i dont think! but done correctly it could be worth thinking about (imo ;) )

[CR4SH3D]

oh how about a kind of shiled thing that does a small amount of damage but repels other craft away from you pretty violently?

i thought the chute mine was kinda cool, maybe the vision disruptor could make all their redouts fuzzy and such too? until you went in pits or absorbed a pick up>?

[XR_GTR]

Maybe IMO it's not the amount of weapons that's the prob, it's the damage that they do or how much they slow the victim down.

I'm just think, maybe the weapons should do MUCH less damage but slow down the opponents A LOT, or A LOT of damage and but very little or no slowdown at all.

[infoxicated]

Like Fusion proved with the grav bomb and grav stinger, slowing the player down constantly has to be one of the most frustrating and least rewarding gameplay traits there is. I always feel like I'm being held back by the slow accelaration in Pure after a weapons hit - these things have jet engines (or equivalent), which aren't the kind of things that are slow in getting up to speed.

Take my shield and my ship, let the walls slow me down when I'm being crap enough to hit them... but don't go robbing me of all my speed as well as my shield and my position on the racetrack when I'm hit by a weapon.

[Tomahawk]

I agree with that!

You're on the last few meters before the finishing line, about to break your race record and get hit by a missile, fired by some stupid, already overlapped AI contender... Nothing is more frustrating than that! :bomb

[username]

lol, i feel the same!

[Task]

And actually, if you're getting hit from _behind_ with an explosive weapon (like Rockets or something) then theoretically you should get a speed _boost_ from being hit! Instant accelleration, although likely in a direction you're not prepared for. I would think that most explosive weapons should do you some shield damage and throw you in one direction a bit. This could easily slow you down if you need to airbrake to recover from the blast, slow you down a lot if it throws you into the wall.

Yes, getting hit by a weapon and just arbitrarily losing speed is definitely something I'd like to see thrown out the window and totally redesigned in the next release of the franchise.

Now that they've got this spiffy "your craft is affected by outside forces" thing going on, it should be leveraged!

[Lion]

in an ascension race, my first even remotely successful run at it at phantom speeds, I had crapped out in some earlier races and needed to be first on sebenco climb and sol2 to get gold (sol2 is usually a gimme).
imagine my anger when on sebenco I got hit by the disruptor and the "random" effect it had this time was the one that reduces me to half speed.
since I was on the last little bit of track before the finish line there was no way of making back the time as I was passed by the 2nd place craft

[username]

ooooooooohhhh nasty! and on sebenco climb! another good reason to get rid of the dp (disruption bolt)

[G'Kyl]

Actually, I very much prefer for a Wipeout game to have as few weapons as possible. I don't think it suits the idea of keeping yor mind on the track if there is too much thinking about when to use which weapon in what way going on. Wipeout is a racing game with weapons, not a shooter on a race track. So anything that gets too fance could distract from the experience.

Ben

[Lion]

bombs, mines, quakes, missiles, rockets, shields
I think all of these have made themselves pretty much essentials

adding plasma and something else to single player..
and either a visual disruption (zoomy or flashbang) and something else to multiplayer I think could work well

the multiplayer something else being a shield drainer maybe?
the single player something else I have no idea, that's what studio liverpool is for ;)

[Sausehuhn]

Great to see you back, Ben :)

... personally I'm no friend of multiplayer weapons (especially not when they're just available for the real racers and not for the AI), because they destroy the weapon balance.
When there're e.g. 8 weapons in the non-multiplayer modes and they're all balanced all works fine. But when you add one or two more weapons the whole thing could be unbalanced.

Not to mention that everybody will think "it would be wonderful if this and that weapon would be available in single player as well" and the other way around.

[mikrucio]

grav-stingers and gravity bombs are the best. the whole point of wipout is AG.
coming to a dead stop is part of the fun of the game. Your AG drives are temporarily disabled. it was a brilliant idea. and brings no real unbalances. grav-stingers are easy to dodge anyway.
getting hit with a missile should not give you a boost coz your engines are getting damaged so obviously you will lose speed.

The only real improvements i want from the next game (if?)
remove the flame thrower and replace it with a lightning charge. or a thermite bomb.

i would also like a full in cockpit view with instrumentation dials and stuff. all different for the diff ships.
Full collision detection is a must for outside track walls. id love to come off the track and speed crash along walls and stuff and losing control and coming to peices.
proper pitch control is also needed.
LAN game is also a must. online not so much but would be grand.
AND A DIFFICULTY SETTING!!!

AND ONE MORE THING!

The ships themselves are all great however i think that at the start the un-upgraded ships should be vastly different like they are now in fusion. however one you start upgrading them they should all get very close to same specs once fully upgraded. this would allow greater balance without the pirahna/xios only superiority.

BUt we can only dream and since there has been no official news of a next wipeout game. i think it's quite a while away. wipeout is no longer a ps1/ps2 sloganised game. rather GTA games and GT4 and devil may crys' have all pulled in as the ps2/ ps3 mascott games. these days ask someone about wipeout and they say huH? wasnt that a ps1 game?

anyway enough ranting. IMHO fusion rox(esp with 5.1 and Widescreen)
(except fireing a flame thrower at 3000km/h will not go forward it will engulf the craft and you will die)

[Lance]

ah, but Wipeout Pure is already the signature game of the PSP. likewise, the flamethrower is already gone from the game.

but perhaps you are only thinking of plug-into-the-wall consoles rather than all consoles?

given Sony's history, there will very likely be a new version of Wipeout for the PS3, hopefully for the launch.

[mikrucio]

yeah naa psp dont count. :)
there will be no launch of wipeout for ps3 sorry. otherwise it would of been at E3 last year.

Besides i keep hearing that the Ps3 will have the power to Anti alias ps2 games1!
this means that hopefully wipeout fusion will looks sweet as on the ps3.

[username]

i would like to see the seismic field again, but then i think that the game is getting toom weapon based. (also, when you fire sea-gulls could be dragged down into it.

[eLhabib]

mikrucio, if you say PSP's wipEout purE doesn't count, then you obviously haven't played it. This is definitely the most complete wipEout ever, and I highly recommend you try it, you might like it!

And concerning wipEout on PS3 - seeing as the Japan launch is supposed to be in April 2006, no, it won't be a launch title. But then the Europe launch will be almost a year after that, and I am pretty sure we will see a new wipEout then!

[Daylight]

btw: the colour coded pads are only in wip3out ;)
but i like the idea of the old fusion pads, and they MUST be turned back to the old blue (not white lol).
but imo: i would like to see the wipeout 3, or 2097 pads be returned

but onto new weapons i have an idea about what i would like to see in the future: the force wall, and energy drain should come back again in my opinion, what do you think?

In pure some customization of the pads seems to be possible. Just note how radically different the pads in Burgertown are. They're cartoony and cute, completely different from any other track. I think the Omega tracks at least shouls have pads to match the look of the track (Like in Cardcity. Those pads should be made of cardboard too. Maybe Paris Hair too.) So I suppose that changing color of the pads wouldn't be that complicated. In the end it probably just comes down to textures and transparency maps

[eLhabib]

You just claimed the title for 'The first Girl in human History ever to use the Term TRANSPARENCY MAP' ;)

[infoxicated]

Not so - I'm pretty sure Rita (queen of Zone) on the Wipeout Pure team has said that before more than once. ;) :)

[xEik]

Rita (queen of Zone)
It took me some time before I realised you were talking about the ever-accelerating mode in Pure instead of the WipeoutZone :D

[mikrucio]

mikrucio, if you say PSP's wipEout purE doesn't count, then you obviously haven't played it. This is definitely the most complete wipEout ever, and I highly recommend you try it, you might like it!

And concerning wipEout on PS3 - seeing as the Japan launch is supposed to be in April 2006, no, it won't be a launch title. But then the Europe launch will be almost a year after that, and I am pretty sure we will see a new wipEout then!

yeah your right i havnt played it. i really hate handhelds :mad:
maybe if there was a psp emulator for the ps2 that would be grand.
or the ability to plug the psp into a TV ( i know that can be done)
and also the ability to plug in a dual shock2 that might tempt me to play it.
and lacking the pro logic II is also a bad thing .

we can only hope for a wipeout for ps3. but i keep alot of tabs of upcoming games. and noone can produce a ps2 game in a year. let alone a ps3 game.

keep your fingers crossed for the announcement. all games in development are on the www.ps3portal.com site. check it out.

[Sausehuhn]

there's a thing called "PSP2TV".
You have to connect it with your PSP and then you can play the games on TV with a PS2-Controller.
It's complecated to connect the thing with the PSP, but you can also buy it directly modified.
So if you've enough money that could be your choice! :)

[username]

i really want that but i am not going to risk breaking my psp, so i will hav to buy another psp with it already conneted! but not for now though

[exarkann]

why dont they just tweak the ai to actually be affected by the disruptor and such?

[iloveTETS304.3.1.8]

one of the few things i liked about fusion, was upgradeing your craft. i dont want to see wipeout turn into gran turismo's simulation mode or anything, but maybe there could be some degree of in depth customization. for example, you could upgrade your ship from a 1400x2 SRHT engine to a 500x3 RHT for more power, or a single larger thruster for less mass and thus, more manuverability. little things like that might make the game draw you in even more. my favorite game in the series has to be wip3out, but as much as i love that game, just doing the same 8 tracks in the same 8 crafts gets a little boreing.
another idea, is maybe to have the next game in the series strech across the entire span of the series. in the beginning of the game you get to see, or maybe even pilot the Nx1000 prototype through the navada desert back in 2035, form that point you could move to the time when it was just the big 4, a few circuit races (and a few years) later, pirahna is then playable, and the original 4 manufacturers ships constantly change through the years. i think this would be cool becasue my favorite part of GT4 is collecting hudereds of cars. when i start the new wipeout, i'd like to see a massive hangar with dozens of ships i have unlocked, their model years spanning throughout the course of a century.

[bakkufu]

sorry to bunnyhop but there was a point earlier about weapons, I read the thread again and had an idea, perhaps some kind of shockwave weapon that emits from the crafts shields, so that if you are close to another enemy it forces them away from your craft - perfect for those tight corner sections where the AI normally rams you out of the way :D

[eLhabib]

now tell me you did not get this idea from 'Marble Blast Ultra' on the 360 ;)

cool idea tho...

[bakkufu]

now tell me you did not get this idea from 'Marble Blast Ultra' on the 360 ;)

cool idea tho...

never heard of it?! Googled it after seeing you mention it, but I'm not keeping up with 360 games purpously because the ps3 will wipe the floor with it.

[eLhabib]

hehe, I sure hope it will :)

[lunar]

I like the idea but it could just be a feature of ordinary shields. Shields in Pure already have the added feature of softening wall hits. It would be a good feature if they could be used to prevent ramming attacks too, both against over-agressive AI and crazed Triaki in multiplayer. One thing I noticed about shields in Pure the other night - when a shielded ship is hit the energy of the weapon doesn`t dissipate, it just remains outside the shield. Not noticing his shield, I shot a certain pilot from Red Bull country at point blank range with a rocket - but I took the full force of it as if he had shot me. :bomb Great stuff, really. ;)

[Lance]

'' at point blank range with a rocket - but I took the full force of it as if he had shot me.''

rather like shooting a rocket in WO3 at a ship with deflector shield enabled.

[Lion]

also the shield in pure isn't 100% protection from quakes. I've died with an active shield before :\

[username]

me too, the same effect with plasmas and shields

[Rapier Racer]

Aahhh I was wondering why I got smashed by a quake when I had a shield up, I could have sworn I activated it in time, I absorb it most of the time and will continue to do so as it appears a tad useless, it should block the bloody lot!

[Lion]

I'm glad it doesn't :)
quakes are rare and plasmas are hard to aim, so it's fair that they damage through shields... the damage is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced
also they make it harder to damage yourself on walls but not impossible
it makese sense to me that if the autopilot's perfection was cut back to make it more of a pilots race that the shield would get a similar treatment

[lunar]

I agree. The AP in Pure is very well judged. Not the drunken, stumbling joke that Fusion`s was, and not the supercharged cop-out that it was in Wip3out: the auto-chicken. The weapons overall in Pure have been very carefully thought-through, and I hope SL will be very careful and cautious in how they adapt them to the next game. You wouldn`t see this balance from playing just single player games though. In that mode it seems that the weapons are completely unbalanced, but this is basically just down to the AI cheating to make the game challenging enough. With decent AI, that flew more like humans do, the balance of available weapons would be seen to be almost spot-on even in single player. A lot of these sort of discussions do come down to a matter of perception though, based on how you are used to playing the game: whether you see Wipeout as a multiplayer or a single player experience. If anything, I think SL should err on the side of putting in less weapons and weapons features in the next game. Adding more is always going to carry the risk of unbalancing the game.