Bring back the old Wuss Wagon

[Dominator]

Original Wuss was the best!!
Not that any of us like to fly off the track of course :mad: but to actually see your ship being caught and then placed back on the track by the Wuss Wagon was so much more realistic and fun than just being teleported back by some invisible entity, miles back down the track, Boring :frown: I kinda miss the little fella, am i the only one?? :)

[Seek100]

Nope, I preferred the wuss-wagon myself, the aside from the fact that teleportation is a facking stupid idea that's completely impossible in the way depicted in Star Trek et.al, (the anti-gravity thing at least has some basis in real science) the wuss-wagon only put you back to the track roughly were you came off, rather than a klick back down the track.

[bakkufu]

and it doesnt nerf your shields too - the wuss wagon was a great idea and is sorely missed.

[lunar]

I think the loss of shield energy is a good gameplay addition - and a suitable punishment for sloppy piloting. :)

I would love to see it combined with the return of a Wip3out style wuss-wagon, though. Teleporting is kind of unbelievable as Seek says, and a wuss-wagon that returns you to the track exactly where you left it is much better, but the most important thing is to have a system that works. At least we don`t have random respawns like in Fusion - and the Pure system does work pretty well. It does put you a long way back from where you crashed sometimes which can seem harsh, but then you shouldn`t have crashed in the first place.

[bakkufu]

but an unfair punishment for anyone getting quaked off the track - the knocked off at respawn for the strange boost effect that kicks in sometimes - especially on the cursed constant s bend track of doom who's name i refuse to mention!!!

[Sausehuhn]

The wuss wagon would be a great return, but for me a normal telepotation would be enough, because what they made in Pure is just a thing that gets on your nerves. It's enough punishment to lose energy when you miss the track (most time because it wans't you fault) and then you're also meters behind the place you actually missed the track.
Is it my fault when I'm hidden by a missle, get out of the track (Sol2 for example) and then go back to the track (meters behind) and this f*cking re-spawn places my ship directly into a bomb so I'm missing the track one more time?!?!?

No!! I say NO!!! :D

So, please MTV: pimp my ride... er... Studio Liverpool: bring back the old wuss wagon or a normal teleportation like it was included in Fusion.

[lunar]

The Fusion respawn was shocking. It would respawn you on a different lap sometimes, or half a lap before where you were, and it allowed cheaters to ruin the game even more than it was already ruined. At least Pure remembers which point of the race you were at, even if some of the respawn points are too far back, like at Manor Top if you fall off the 90 degree bends. But that`s the only fault I find in it. If you respawn and immediately fly off again it`s usually because you were not reacting fast enough. If you respawn infront of a bomb, well, bad luck. :) This could happen with any system. Sure, it might seem harsh to get knocked off the track by a weapon and lose energy for that too, but there are counter-measures you can take against a quake if you hear it coming, to try and stay on. Other weapons can help you out, or you could slow down in some cases, if possible make sure you are on a part of the track with walls when it hits you, all of which could help. A quake alone doesnt have all that much of an energy hit on an average ship - quake plus fall off does, so there`s the motivation for the pilot to try and make sure he stays on the track. And it goes both ways: in multiplayer there`s extra motivation to try to hit people with quakes and other weapons on open sections. :) When you watch your rival plunge into oblivion it`s all the more satisfying to know you might have cost them a barrel roll or put their energy into critical. I must admit the only time I race against other ships is in multiplayer and it all works perfectly against other people. Something that makes the game more frustrating when it`s done to you also makes it even more enjoyable when you watch it happening to someone else. :pirate

I just really like the idea of a shield loss to punish flying off, and to me the negative sides to that feature don`t outweigh the positive, but this is all just opinion anyway. :)

[stin]

I will put it in bluntly,

Wuss wagon or Teleported= tough ****! you`re hopeless, only way?= restart!

stevie:robot

[Seek100]

Dude, that's uncalled for, it's not 'blunt' it's just stupid; like you've never been caught by it... :rolleyes:

99.9% of the times I've been caught has been due to the ridiculous amount of weapons fire in pure, the other 0.1% - Syncopia Zone, those jumps get pretty damn hard after zone 30...

[Lance]

.
i would prefer that there be less bluntness from both of you and more precisely sticking to the definition of your positions without extraneous emotion.
.

[username]

personally, i would love to see the old wuss wagon from wip3out back, it was orignal (flying billboard/tv thingy) and good to see you be put back onto the track

[Seek100]

.
i would prefer that there be less bluntness from both of you and more precisely sticking to the definition of your positions without extraneous emotion.
.

Apologies Lance and stin.

My point stands though that the excessive weapons fire in pure makes the track reset a much more common occurence than in w'o", 2097 or w3o.

P.S. Quoting because the post in question is on the previous page, meaning would be unclear.

[Distrupto]

Bringing back the old wusswagon drone from WO 1 would definately be a nice idea and better than the existing teleporter, except there r a few problems. With modern tracks like Sol 2, u would need an ultrafast drone to dive after u, catch u and put u back on track. If the drone cant catch u, you would end up falling into Sinucit and u know wat. How would u expect a flying billboard/tv thingie to outrun an AG?

[eLhabib]

the wuss wagon itself doesn't have to be THAT fast, only the guy (or AI) driving it has to have quick reflexes activating the tractor beam to catch the ship. and then we would have another new discussion: how believeable is a tractor beam in the wipEout world? or what do you guys think stuck the wusswagon to the fallen off craft? magnets? not likely.

[Drakkenmensch]

At this point, every technology in the Wipeout world is beyond our scope, so there has to be a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. The question is - how far can you push that technobabble and still keep it within believable limits, or how can you avoid the Star Trek Particle of the Week?

[Sausehuhn]

If you ask the question "are tractor beams believable?" you could also ask:

"Are holograms believable?"
"Are walls made with laser believable?"
"Are Pads that give you weapons out of nowhere believable?"
"Are Racing tracks where rockets fly and crafts blow up built in a living city believable?"
"Are force walls believable?"
and last but not least:
"Are AG-engines believable?"


Man, it's a racing game in the future, more than 100 years after now. and even if it wouldn't be possible, it could fit into the game. We never had hologram lightings in a WipEout game before Pure. And now where we have them I just love them. They add this little touch of (*ducks down*) F-Zero/Star Wars that was needed to let the game look more futuristic but still very good. So that's my opinion...

[Rouni Kenshin#1]

yes
yes
no
yes
yes
yes
All in the future(the craft blowing up in a living city is here and called road rage).

[bakkufu]

"Are Pads that give you weapons out of nowhere believable?"

The pad doesnt give the weapon - it arms a single use of a weapon thats already on board the ship.

[Sausehuhn]

now say where all the weapons are placed? Under the ship? Doesn't sound trat realistic to me. Theoretical you could get one weapon every singel time when you fly over a pad. And there are "a few" pads on a track, so the ship has to have this weapon as often as the track has pads - would be very stupid if the pad says "missile" and the pilot can't fire the weapon just because it hasn't enough weapons. And now I want to see where you place all that weapons. :sonar

[bakkufu]

If you look at the pure intro - it shows the weapons under the AG 5Y5 during construction, I have carried this idea forward with my design too :)

[Rapier Racer]

I thought the idea someone suggested of the pad beaming a weapon to the ship was a good one, else they would have to carry a huge arsenal of firepower under there :cowboy

[bakkufu]

I would have thought if mankind can defy gravity that they can scale down the missiles etc to carry them underneath.

[Dominator]

With modern tracks like Sol 2, u would need an ultrafast drone to dive after u, catch u and put u back on track. If the drone cant catch u, you would end up falling into Sinucit and u know wat. How would u expect a flying billboard/tv thingie to outrun an AG?

The little Wuss always managed to outrun & catch any AG leaving the track in previous WO's, why not now!!
In the world of WO & Pure technology has obviously advanced greatly, AG's are much quicker than there brothers of old, so why wouldn't a Wuss Wagon be quicker than it's older counterparts, new technology = faster Wuss Wagon, makes sense to me :D

[Distrupto]

If you ask the question "are tractor beams believable?" you could also ask:

"Are holograms believable?"
"Are walls made with laser believable?"
"Are Pads that give you weapons out of nowhere believable?"
"Are Racing tracks where rockets fly and crafts blow up built in a living city believable?"
"Are force walls believable?"
and last but not least:
"Are AG-engines believable?"


Man, it's a racing game in the future, more than 100 years after now. and even if it wouldn't be possible, it could fit into the game. We never had hologram lightings in a WipEout game before Pure. And now where we have them I just love them. They add this little touch of (*ducks down*) F-Zero/Star Wars that was needed to let the game look more futuristic but still very good. So that's my opinion...

192 years ago:

"Was supersonic flight believable?"
"Was flight at all believable?"
"Was internet believable?"
"Were computers believable?"
"Were Space Stations believable?"
"Were missiles and radar believable?"
"Were space probes on Saturn believable?"
"Was flying to the moon believable?"
"Were lasers believable?"
etc. etc. etc.

If this is so, why cant all those technologies be believable?

[eLhabib]

the weapons are all stored beneath the ship, as you can see on the ship renders. for example, you can see the missiles stored in some kind of fire battery, like an assault helicopter would have them. also let's not forget that the weapons in purE are not really for big scale destruction, but rather for knocking a ship off its line, so the warheads wouldn't have to be as big and powerful as, say, a sidewinder missile. considering the size of wipEout craft, I see no problem in fitting at least 10 loads of each weapon under a ship (except for the bombs maybe, but those are rare anyway, 5 would be enough I guess.)

[username]

i want the wuss wagon to be faster too! and i would like to see it have team names on it

[Lance]

.
having team wusswagons would make it easy for the teams to cheat. [as in Fusion, for example! :D ]
the wusswagons would either belong to the race organisers or would travel with the racing circus the way referees in football and other sports do.
.

[username]

ah, yes. didnt think about that. is it possible for the pure creators to come up with a download that could allow you to toggle between, wusswagon and auto teleportation? i know that it wouldnt be made but could they?...
i think that that would be a really gread idea, as personally i hate the teleport way- it is too un-believeable and boaring! lol

[Jittery-Joe]

I think the wuss wagon should be brought back, but it should look like some sort of Decomissioned racer (3's Pirhana or Icaras perhaps? Or maybe a Fusion craft...?)

[Lion]

I have to disagree...
I think it should be very small and light...

- it doesn't have to support a pilot, which is good as the G-forces involved in catching someone that rapidly as they fly off teh track would likely mulch a human
- it has to house the grapple systems, retrofitting that into a decommssioned prev-gen racer would likely not be worth the hassle

[Sausehuhn]

I know it's Fusion, but I think it doesn't look that bad: click! (http://people.freenet.de/sausehuhn/WipEoutZone/images/rescue.PNG)

[Jittery-Joe]

The Mac I'm using can't view .pngs :paperbag
can someone give me a brief description please?

[Mobius]

It's the ship which picks up the racer after you've blown up in fusion.

On the website they said if you were lapped an alternat ship would just pick you up of the track while you were racing, but alas it never did come about.

[Dominator]

If Wuss should ever reappear in future WO's (please) i would like to see little change in the way he looks, AG craft design hasn't changed that much in 150+ years (except Fusion) so why should Wuss :)

[username]

i agree dominator- it should look like one out of the older seriese, i think that the one from wip3out looked good, because it wouldnt be using the designers republic i think that there should be a screen on it that displays random team logos on it. also i would like to see them circling random and dangerouse parts of the track. AND i would like it so that they have to chase after you instead of just appearing on-top of you. and if there was only one wuss wagon over a jump and 2 craft flew off i would like one of them to have to wait until the other had been put back on the track, then it would go for the other one.
what i would also lie to see is when you fly off into a field or something. you dont just go through the grass and get caught- i would like to see it flip over onto the grass and get returned to the track and un-flipped.
also when you flip on the track (sometimes this happens in wipeout pure) a wusswagon has to come and un-flipp you, i think that those points would add a really realistic effect to the game, dont you think?
(sorry if half of you are asleep by now- i will fix it WAKE UP!!!) lol

[Dominator]

Some good points username, i too would love to see Wuss flying randomly around the track waiting for some hapless craft to fly off the track, and as you said there should be more than one. Maybe a Wuss for each team, owned by each team, that can follow there craft around the track, just an idea. Regardless of all this i just want Wuss back in any future WO :)

[username]

that would not be good in real life as lance said it would be easy for a team to cheat that way (ie: a faster wusswagon than the other teams have).
i also think that all scenery should be solid (so that you can not fly through them). and that wusswagons can be eliminated.

great idea IMO: the wusswagons could circle the track above the ships all the time so that they always have view of all of the ships.

also a wuss wagon should always be hovering over the spectators so that if a craft (god forbit) was going to crash into the spectators stand. the wusswagon could stop the ship from crashing into the audience.

edit: but it would not save the judges!

[Dominator]

Wuss wagons eliminated :o why on earth would you want that to happen??
Isn't there enough weapons fire and carnage in WO as it is!!

When i said a wuss for each team i meant to say that they would be given to all the teams on race day by the FX League, all with individual team colors/logos, all equal in speed/stats.

Love the idea of a wuss protecting spectators from a hapless craft, great idea :) but lets get real here, without FX league officials and race organisers, who would be there to stop the cheating and corruption that tainted & ruined the F9000 league, wuss should protect all who are watching an AG race :D

[username]

no eloiminated, but i mean that if a wrongly aimed rocket was to hit a wuss hovering over a jump then it might make it blow up. or something like that and it would be anouther 10 seckonds befors another wuss would respawn. do you think that there should be other robust looking bots that hover over lumpy sections of the track and around the audience so that they could destroy off/aim rockets that could hit buildings? i think that that would be a god toych to the game. dont you think?

[Dominator]

I would like to think that Wuss would be impervious to any weapons fire heading it's way!! I also think Wuss would be quick enough to avoid any incoming weapons fire, quickly gaining altitude etc etc :)

[Dominator]

:)
I think your focusing a little to much on weapons fire, carnage & destruction, thats not what WO is about, unless you want another Fusion :turd i know i don't!!
For me Wuss is there for AG Craft flying off the track and nothing more (imo)
Maybe in the world of WO, spectators are protected from weapons fire by some sort of shield/invisible barrier, but that is another topic altogether :)

[username]

yes, you are right. lets keep it simple!

[Drakkenmensch]

Focussing too much on the wusswagon draws attention away from what really counts - the racers themselves.

Nobody watches F1 or Nascar to see towtrucks or pace cars.

[username]

i do! nah lol. i cn see where you are coming from Drakkenmensch.
lets just say that we wnnt the wuss-wagon back and thats that!

[Dominator]

As said in my original post Drakk, i just want to see Wuss back in the world of WO, instead of this boring unrealistic teleportation crap.
Wuss in previous WO's didn't draw any attention away from the racers (imo) so why would he now :)

[bakkufu]

I was thinking about these and the WUSS wagon's dont HAVE to be manned with cockpits etc, so I set about putting together a minimalistic rescue ship.

Let me know what you think.

http://www.bakkufu.co.uk/linkedwork/WUSS.jpg
http://www.bakkufu.co.uk/linkedwork/WUSSrescue.jpg

[eLhabib]

Sweet! looks agile enough to catch a falling AG-racer! just one thing tho: put a monitor of some sort on it. if a ship falls off during a race, EVERYONE in the audience is going to be watching, so the wuss will DEFINITELY be used for advertising! ;)

[bakkufu]

try http://www.bakkufu.co.uk/linkedwork/WUSSrescue2.jpg

[username]

cool! your designs look really good- keep them up!

[Lance]

.
WUSSrescue2 with monitor. hilarious. :)
.

[Jittery-Joe]

Nice, man. Looks like 3's Wusswagon's better brother...

[bakkufu]

hilarious? :(

[username]

yes i think that it looks similar to the wo3 version as you can actually see the propellars on it.

today i noticed (when playing 2097) that just before the announcer says go you can actually see the wuss wagon return to the sky after placing you on the track. i would love to see this idea incorporated in a wipeout to come!

[Lance]

.
the monitor: hilarious, yes. in a sad and cynical way. the idea that the damned corporations would be so desperate to advertise at every seeming opportunity, and be damned to the feelings of the viewers. also the sheer stupidity of the advertisers thinking that anyone would actually watch the adverts instead of paying attention to the ship being picked up and to the picker-upper wusswagon's operation. not to mention that the monitor itself cannot be seen clearly unless in a televised close-up on a giant screen at the racing venue or on tv at viewer's homes or sportsbars or whatever, and in all cases the monitor on the wusswagon is therefore redundant because the tv screens can themselves be used for adverts with less complication and expense. so, a sad hilarity ensues when i think about a monitor display on the wagon.

lately i've seen a few football games on tv [while actually devoting almost all my attention to my computer activities] in which adverts are actually displayed as visuals seeming to be part of the astro-turf of the playing surface. this is done by the same technology that showed country flags and lane assignments at the bottom of the pool in Olympic swimming events. superimposed video graphics already make actual reallife devices unnecessary technically and cost inefficient. in the time of the supposed Wipeout racing future, this digital video-integrated advert trend would no doubt be even more advanced.

[jeez, Lance goes off into another bloody essay again. [eyerollin' looking toward the Heavens for relief from these]]

[Jittery-Joe]

I quite agree lance. Atleast 3's Wusswagon only had the graphics off the start screen, which was a very nice touch, along with the very patronising Buzzing sound. If they did bring it back like that, the screen would have to serve the same prupose as the F1 pit crew guy with the 'Ready' 'Go' stick, not a flying advert.

Way off topic but Americans play Football on astroturf? Ouch.

[Sausehuhn]

But - on the other hand - where is the problem with advertisments on the wuss wagon? I know, no one would actually look at them, but this is no problem for years anymore. Look a the F1: advertisments everywhere. On the drivers, on the track and even on the cars. I know nobody is looking at them, but actually they are there - every free space is used for advertsiments for years now - why not also the wuss?

One thing about the design. I like it! But I think I would make it a bit smaller maybe and replace the screen with a hologram like the "have a nice day" holograms for example.

[bakkufu]

I have a perfect replacement for the ad in mind - problem is i cant do the effect i need in 3dsmax because i dont know how to :(

[Lance]

.
Joe: not football football with exposed skin, but American football with armour equivalent.
.

[Jittery-Joe]

After my experiances with the local Astroturf and my face, still ouch, armour or none... (I had guessed thats what you meant)
Anyway the hologram idea sounds classy, and would fit in with Pure-style tracks too.

[Dominator]

They look fantastic Bakkufu, maybe agile enough, but would they be quick enough to catch an AG Craft leaving the track, look like they would :)

[Lance]

.
you're supposed to be wearing a faceguard on your helmet, Joe. er... you are wearing a helmet, right? :)
.

[username]

i think that you should be able to select whever you want the wusswagon, and the auto-teleportation.
(in the options menu)

[Jittery-Joe]

Lance: Not in english football (soccer), and falling over on sandy plastic hurts something evil :mad:
Username: Great idea man, but they'd have to take away the sheild peanalty from pure.

[username]

yes, it would be good if they took away the shield energy penalty.

[Dominator]

Yeah great idea Username :)
I know what i'd be selecting in the options menu, Wuss Wuss Wuss all the way, really miss you little fella :)

[username]

yes, as would i! it would also be good if you could select the type of wusswagon- but i think that it would be too much bother.

[Distrupto]

If somebody fired off a quake on Sol 2 and not one, but 5 or 6 ships fell off, and there r only 1 or 2 Wuss on that section, the only way they would be able to save Sinucit is chasing them down and trying to catch them all in a net. I think having some Wusses just to look after a certain region of the track, with more on danger zones is better than them randomly flying around. Wusses can have shields, preventing them from being destryed in weapons fire, but they should be affected somwat by weapons. Say if a low flying wuss comes in the path of a quake, it should be shoved around a bit, or a bomb explosion knocking a wuss in the air a couple of feet. Also, if there is a rare occurnce that a ship is being carried back on track and the ship or wuss gets hit by a stray weapon, the Wuss may drop the ship and have to pick it up again.

Oh, yeah, and last Sunday, I actually saw a Wusswagon. In an A-1 GP race, a car had some technical problem and went into the gravel. Insted of any tow truck towing it off, a helicopter actually carried it away from the track. :D :robot

[Dominator]

Multiple craft being quaked off the track at the same time, Cool!!
I would suggest that the FX League provide each participating team a Wuss, which would follow there team craft around the circuit for the duration of each race :D

[username]

i have just noticed that on wipeout 1 on the first track (altima VII or someting) just before the small jump, stop and you can actually see the wuss circling over the jump. if you have really quick eyes and fall off you can actually see the wuss chase after you for a split second!
disrupto: love the idea about if a wuss gets in the path of a quake then it gets knocked around!

(btw: i knever noticed this until lasst night either: if you go on altima VII on venom, somewere in the track there is a bill board with sissy on it!)
have you lot seen that?

[Rapier Racer]

Yes but you see the thing about that circling wuss is that it also likes to come after you if you use a turbo off that jump and go to high which is annoying, I'm not falling off the track, get off me!

[username]

it propably checks to see if you are a certian distance from the track

[Distrupto]

Yes but you see the thing about that circling wuss is that it also likes to come after you if you use a turbo off that jump and go to high which is annoying, I'm not falling off the track, get off me!

It probably thinks you wont be able to control it and comes after u expecting u to fall off.:rolleyes:

[Airrider]

It stalks the craft...it's BRIAN PEPPERS!!! AAAAAAH!!!

[Hybrid Divide]

I support bringing back the original wuss-wagon from WipEout 1.

Along with just about everything else from that era in AG-Racing.
(With the notable exception of the horrid WO1 wall scraping/stop, of course)

[username]

ok i just had a really good idea hit me: as pilots we always have the odd missile or plasma that we aim wrong and it takes off and hits into scenery, ect. well: what if there were special - non moving - wuss wagons that defend scenery and the audience. i had this idea where before they could sacrafice theselves to stop the weapon. but i had a better idea, what if the stationairy defender wagons were armed with the proton cannon? : they could shoot down any threatening weapons. (but as you might think they might just shoot any weapon - no: only if they come within dangerouse range of spectators. what do any of you think of this idea?

[Sausehuhn]

not bad, but imo energy-walls (that you just see when a weapon hits one) are way easier.
They're also better in terms of slowdowns: it's way easier for the console to simulate a few transparent walls instead of canons firing proton lasers to a weapon that has to react to the those..
But: eneryg-wall could give you the feeling of a transparent cage - and that's not really a good thing, cause imo it feels alot better when you get the feeling of free space.

[username]

yes i see what you mean about it is very hard to simulate, i also like the energy wall idea but as you said about being enclosed

[Lion]

this could be made to work if it was a transparent force bubble covering stands, so you'd only see the ripple over the spectators rather than a wall along the sides of thr track

[Sausehuhn]

does anybody know the shields of the alien-ships in the movie "independence day"? Something like that would be cool. You can just see them when a weapon actually hit them.

[Lion]

at the end of the latest season of stargate SG1 there's a big space battle and the same is true in that.

[username]

yes, lions idea combined with the idea of only visable when hit with weapons idea from max sounds like a good combination.

however i think it might be a bit boaring in a way if you know what i mean...

what other ideas can ou think of?

[Sausehuhn]

the energy walls should not be on the whole track, just at some (important) places. Mainly the track itself (with walls etc) should react to the weapons, not the energy walls.
Now imagine a physics-engine where you're able to actually destroy parts of the track - not affecting the race itself, but making an interesting new visual effect!

[username]

yes, i like the idea of that :)

[Zero [RG] [HG]]

Like Protoss Plasma Shields?

EDIT: It wouldn't make sense to have bots that catch off-aim weapons: people would wonder "How much money are they wasting with each bot that blows up?"