2097 vs XL on modded PAL Playstation

[skipper]

OK. I have now played through Wipeout XL on my modded PAL Playstation.
It is definetely much easier.
Once I completed the Piranha Challenge I took the Piranha for a spin in TT.
The times I managed are way faster than my previous best 2097 times.
eg
Talons Reach TT Rapier:
2097 1:19.5 / 19.4
XL 1:14.4 / 17.3
Talons Reach TT Phantom:
2097 1:35.9 / 18.1
XL 1:30.4 / 16.6

Can anyone explain this huge difference, I went back to 2097 to see If I could beat my times, I couldn't.
So It wasn't that I had just gotten better.

[element42]

In 2097 you bounce around more so you're probably bottoming out after the bumps - that loses a great deal of speed.

[JABBERJAW]

XL is a faster game. ON talons, as long as you know the brake tapping technique, the times are pretty close, on sagarmatha, maybe 2 seconds difference. on the rest of the tracks, there is around a 5-8 second difference if you race both games perfectly(note:2097 is harder to race perfectly because of the brake tapping off of the pads and more pitch control issues).

[Asayyeah]

Among the french wipers friends i have , all of them have beaten their previous 2097' records quite immediately.
That was my case too.

Xl is also faster in term of thrust , i mean less time to reach highest speed that's one of the reasons why lap1 is also faster.

I suppose 340 XL kph equalls to 400 / 420 kph from 2097.
2097 resets at 490 kph ( you go down immediately to 390) but i ve reached 466 on Vostok's cuts that could equall an hypothetic 530 kph on 2097 .

XL is really faster than 2097 but which is Weird :The speed sensation ( feeling) is less impresive in XL even if you make faster time than 2097.
I made that test too : i have the same speed feeling with a 14.6 XL talon's laptime than a 15.0 -- 2097's one . Odd but true

[skipper]

Thanks everyone.
I was worried it was something to do with the PAL 25 frames / 50 fields vs NTSC 30 frames / 60 fields.
I agree with Old asayyeah the sensation of speed in XL is less than it is in 2097.
It is extremely satisfying seeing your times drop by so much, even if it is a different version of the game.
On the other hand it is a real bummer going back to 2097 and not being able to get even close to your XL times.
I will post some XL Phantom Piranha times up at some stage.
(yes Lance I will leave the other classes for the Gentlemens Non Pirahna League)

[Asayyeah]

Hi jonathon :)
wellcome to one of the craziest but funniest competition : " the fastest with the fastest " Yeah 'pirahna + Phantom' = the adrenaline coacktail.

You could add into your table's profile if you use a Neggie or a normal Dpad ( point your mouse onto the real names into the tables and you will see that most of us add the controller they use )

You need a sub 16.1 to enter top 10 on XL TT talon's phantom, you can do it !!
Gooooooo :!:

[skipper]

My full name in the tables is Jonathon Skipper.
Some of my higher placing times are on 2097 Sagar-Matha TT.
Been a NeGcon user for a number of years.
That 16.1 in XL Talons Reach TT to get in to the top 10 is a good time to aim for.
I don't know about making top 10 in 2097 Talons Reach TT,
my 18.1 took alot of practice, and I haven't got close to it lately.
However I have been experimenting with the brake tap technique,
we'll see what diffference that makes.

[lunar]

I just happily acquired a copy of XL, and I was wondering this: are XL times considered officially legal if achieved on a modded Pal playstation? Should they be considered legal? I`m not sure we`ve ever definitively cleared this up. Not that I`m going to top any tables, but I would like to know whether there`s any point entering times. :)

[stin]

LOL!!

I have the original version here but as far as I know there is a couple french peeps have been using the thingy.

stevie :paperbag

[Dimension]

I got a version of 2097 a few weeks back (for £2.97 heh) and I have to say I found it very easy to finish and clock some decent times (some TT ones entered in tables) on; if you say XL bottoms out less than 2097 it must be boring as hell, TR in 2097's a fight against pitch shifting just to add a little spice, still enjoying it tho ;) Anyway my point here is, that if XL is that much faster than 2097, is not a faster TR lap record time possible? Bet Arnaud could clock a 13.9 given long enough, sure Al said they were close, but... :/

[lunar]

grrrrrr I see I`m no longer UK record holder for TR Phantom laps. ;)

Going to have to do something about that, but I can`t stop playing Pure atm. Glad you have finally seen the light and are playing the greatest wipeout ever (imho) with the best controller. :) I think you could go after some of Arnaud`s times - you can do it - do it for your country!!!!! ;)

[Dimension]

LOL, sorry Lunar, didn't mean to undermine your authoritah' ;)

[JABBERJAW]

13.9 IS NOT POSSIBLE ON TALONS. The reason is that it is easy to keep piranha over 440 kph the entire track, as opposed to other tracks where you need to use brakes alot to make turns. That is why talon's is close(especially on Single race). The only reason it is not right on is because the first lap on TT it takes a while to get up to speed

[username]

i like going on phantom in talons reach too, although i must admit that my driving skills are a little rought i still manage to go fast enough to catch up with one of my own missiles i fired! lol

[Dimension]

Alright Al, guess it makes sense when you put it like that, cheers anyway ;)

[Dimension]

Oh man... lunar... took you up on trying to break into the faster record tyimes, spent all of last night hammering TR (and clocking an untold number of clone PBs, 15.2/.3/.4s,) and still I couldn't beat my 15.1 (which is kinda disturbing me,) so now running on 3hrs sleep, I can still feel the ache in my left hand... couldn't even do better than all out drawn for 2nd race time either *sigh* "Wonker's cramp is hell!" :(

[lunar]

It`s a great time though - congrats. Not sure how you`re doing it, obviously, but are you using brake tapping? Have you seen Arnaud`s video? It`s great to find out the best line, though building up the speed he does is another matter. When I`m practiced, I can go round and round and round TR pretty quick without hitting anything, but can never get anywhere near his speeds. :?

[Dimension]

I lost all the videos I got from that french bloke's FTP when my HD crashed a few months back, shame as I could do to twok his tactic, as I'm kinda struggling to adapt to the "smooth only" style of piloting in 2097 (W3O is much more balanced in style so being particularly heavy handed can work well there.) Anyway, I'll take it as it comes, still kinda dissapointed to have not got into the sub 15s after owning/having the game for nearly 2 months.

*Edit* On the subject of videos I just took a gander at Mano's TR race with a 14.9 in it and I can tell big difference Kph wise between XL & 2097, don't think mano ever broke 400, whereas me clocking 430 round the final flip-flop (the one with the pot-hole from banking in it) has yet to get me a time that good, wierd. *smilies not working - li3k grr!*

[lunar]

click here (http://rapidshare.de/files/9246099/TT_1_15_7_RaceRecord.avi.html) to download the race record video. The other amazing thing is how he gets up to max speed so fast. It takes me a lap and a bit to really wind the ship up.

[Dimension]

Cheers Lunar, but I don't have the codec for that video, no probs as I cut under 15 secs now [14.8] and upped my race time half a second too, still much to be done but the quality british *BEEF* has been put in the french toast sandwich, Yum! Kitchen raiding time :P Now I can concentrate on making something for the fan pack ideas. Shouts to Mano for his words in the piloting tips thread, brought the penultimate turbo pad into play for me, cheers m8 :)

*EDIT 2005/20/12* K so i saw Arnaud's video when I got the right codec, but (and i might have been imagining this,) there's something i'm puzzled about; I noticed on the first lap of the race, after the second turbo pad of the track, going uphill, Arnaud continued to accelerate beyond 344/347 and while the speed, once maxed out, at the top of the hill was no greater than for I, the extra acceleration would surely save time if the details could be kindly spilled by anyone that knows of this phenomena. Cheers, beers and sub 15.0s ;)

[JABBERJAW]

Another part of the reason for xl looking slower is the modded psx/pal tv combo thingy will make the game slower so it runs correctly on the pal tv. How do I know this? My pal/ntsc combo tv looks slower for xl than running it on a ntsc only tv. The appearance of the track is "shortened" and "thinned" as well.

[etherdrive]

ZOOLANDER:the modded psx/pal tv combo thingy will make the game slower

You could test that with a simple watch. If one minute after the start of the race the in-game timer show 50 sec, then the game is indeed running slower. Otherwise, it might just be the different screen that's killing the sense of speed.

[Asayyeah]

I cut under 15 secs now [14.8] and upped my race time half a second too, still much to be done but the quality british *BEEF* has been put in the french toast sandwich, Yum!
Not sure about the quality of your UK roastbeef :rolleyes: but absolutely convinced by your 14.8 . EDIT after checking the tables 14.7 now !! congrats
Not many of us has broken that barrier. Cheers mate :coffee awesome lap you do.


I noticed on the first lap of the race, after the second turbo pad of the track, going uphill, Arnaud continued to accelerate beyond 344/347
True i can reach 350 and a little more only by hitting quickly on airbrakes and pointing my nose down going uphill. for example just after the 2nd boostpad i turn right and hit several time quickly as i can the right airbrake. You can use this technique 'till 420/430 it works well when you just hit a wall and want to recover your speed faster
As for crossing on blue pads gives you extra speed when you hit fast the correct airbrake,.

[Lance]

.
Arnaud: you hitting airbrake, nose down while going uphill and hitting airbrake multiple times as fast as you can?
sheesh, i can't do that. no wOnder you can beat me!

---------

AL said ''the modded psx/pal tv combo thingy will make the game slower so it runs correctly on the pal tv. How do I know this? My pal/ntsc combo tv looks slower for xl than running it on a ntsc only tv.''

does that have any real effect on how long a player has to react? does it make control easier or harder? i thought the modded combos were supposed to be essentially equal to each other and allow direct competitions for times between players in different countries. it would be a pity if that weren't the case.
.

[Asayyeah]

Lance : you also need to close your eyes when you do that if you want to go faster :dizzy
The powaa' is in you !!

"it would be a pity if that weren't the case."
Agree with you , if there's a too much difference between regular times and those ( included mine) who runs XL on a modded pal ps, we could erase our time ... even it would be hard for me to do it , sniiff :frown:

[Lance]

yeah, i had thought that question was all settled and it made no difference, which is exactly what i want, but comments by Al and etherdrive cast doubt on that.

maybe even if there is a difference in how much time you have to react, that it just wouldn't be all that significant. certainly not as significant as the speed jump between classes. but still a slight advantage for somebody, perhaps.

Ben and i used to race each other's times with him on native 2097 and me on native XL, and there didn't seem to be that much difference, at least on Talon's Reach and Sagar-matha

[lunar]

this really messes with your mind, but the way I see it there are three possibilities for a modded pal playstation playing XL:

1: that it slows down the whole game including the clock. Although 400kph would cover the same amount of track in the same time, in modded and native XL, in this case players on a modded playstation would have an advantage, due to their playing on a slowed down time, and having longer to react as Lance says.

2: that it slows down the framerate to make it display properly, but it takes its timing clock from somewhere else, somehow, and the game clock still runs at a true speed. In this case the players on modded playstations would be at a disadvantage. All other factors being equal, they wouldn`t cover as much track per second as players playing native XL.

3: That it runs everything at the correct speed, but how can this be the case if it has to slow it down to make it display properly on a Pal format only television?

Number 1 seems by far the most likely, but it seems it would be easy to test by just timing the in-game clock against a real world clock as etherdrive suggests. If 60 seconds real world is less seconds in XL on a modded Pal PSX, then it`s number 1. If 60 seconds remains 60 seconds, then it`s probably number 2.

Or I`m completely wrong, and all the christmas port and blue cheese sessions have rotted my brain. :)

Also it doesn`t necessarily answer what happens when you do the disc swap trick, does it? I`m confused.:dizzy

@ Arnaud - I always meant to ask how you got that speed up the hill, but never got round to it. I thought I tried everything and was putting it down to voodoo black magic, but I never thought of repeatedly whacking the right airbrake - clearly I lack imagination!


@Dimension - forgot to say: great time!

[Dimension]

Cheers Lunar 8) And Arnaud, that sounds like a pretty crazy strategy: Won't ask how you figured out that would happen lol, but whatever it is you're doing it's pretty ****ing amazing, I managed to clock as fast as a 1:16.3 but over a race distance I'm clocking lap times similar to Mano's video, constant 15.0/1s and only occasional 14.8/9s, have noticed a few little features of TR though. Like I noticed at the top of the first hill (after your repeated right airbrake tapping bit,) when the track jigs right, when pitching forwards, if you scrape down the wall after the jig right (just before pitching back to launch right off the hilltop) you can wall scrape there as fast as 380 at best which I find most helpful in clocking 16.4 sec opening laps (gotta get a jump on you (arnaud) somewhere:p) also i dunno if anyone's noticed, but the drop after that hill: I found that tilting my ship a bit more back level before landing helps me not bottom out (though it's V.Hard to do,) must be to do with the actual wings of your ship bottoming out there.

Oh and on topic, I dunno much about the frame rate differences and such between regions, but if there's some unintentional 'cheating' (no offence to the cheaters in the back :p) going on, even something small, I'd say clear the modded times, i'd be unimpressed if it were happening t'other way round. With something as precise as WO TTing just little bugs could make all the difference. Anyway, if anyone's got both (unlikely,) it would be interestign to see how much difference in max lock and deadzone they would use, might give a hint as to any steering discrepancies. Anyway, there's my $0.02 coming up shy again, next question!

Edit: Alright Arnaud, that right airbrake tap technique seems to work alright, guess it's not black magic =) Oh and, I know I look like a real little poopoo head for asking this, but how did you guys get around misinterpreting the s-bend into the tunnel, whenever I manage to get through there without braking too hard on the pad, I turn in to sharp and hit the left hand side; it's like a natural reaction I can't shake :brickwall