Speed start too easy?

[Dastardly]

Does anyone else agree that its far too easy to get a speed start in Pure?

I realise that with a bit of practise in the other Wipeouts you could get it everytime but at least you felt like it wasnt ALWAYS gonna happen guaranteed. In Pure you get the speed start EVERYTIME without fail.

If they intended to make it this easy they should have just made it so you get it by just holding the accelerate!

Still loving the game though :)

[Rapier Racer]

Actually I wasn't paying full attention once and.........

[Hyper Shadow]

I find that I can almost always get a speed start, but unless I hit every speed boost and drive a perfect lap i'll end up near the back again. Its annoying, but maybe its just cos I suck :p

[Seek100]

LOL, I too sometimes miss it when I'm distracted, usually by the TV being on and something catches my eye just as the race starts. The crummy speed start in pure is a leftover from the heady days of Fusion, which has exactly the same system with an almost garaunteed speed start every time, IMO the old system with a 'rev counter' of some sort was far superior, the start should function like it did in 2097 and w3o, that is getting the 'revs' or whatever they were between 2 points on the counter, too little and you start normally, too much and you stall.

Edit: @ HyperShadow, no you don't suck, this is a common element of many racing games, the opponents are made to go much faster than their top speed for maybe half the first lap in order to give you someone to overtake for the rest of the race, it's been in all the wipEouts and in pure I'm sure you can see the other crafts' engine trails flare as if they've gone over a speed pad even though they haven't. I suppose if you could get to first right from the grid and stay there the whole race it'd be kinda boring.

[Rouni Kenshin#1]

Yes, the speed boost at the start is very easy to get............but usually afew seconds after that burst is over and every body rams by you putting you any where from 6-8 place. Not that this hurts you race put just makes how easy the speed boost is abtained rather unimportant.

[eLhabib]

I would love to have a speed start which is basically like the one in purE, but the timespan you have to react after the GO! has to be much shorter, so you only get it if you react VERY quickly. Furthermore, the time between the READY and the GO! should vary for several seconds, so you never know when it kicks off.
You could also have a system which gives you more boost if you react quickly and less boost if you react a little slower. I think it DOES do that a little bit in purE, sometimes I managed to anticipate the GO! and push X right AT the GO! and the speed boost seemed a little bigger, but I'm not positive on that...

[Sven]

You know, I think the closer to the "go" command you get, the more boost you get. Because once, I hit it at the exact instant it changed, and it felt like a faster/more powerful boost.

[element42]

Furthermore, the time between the READY and the GO! should vary for several seconds, so you never know when it kicks off.you know, i think that was what it was like in Fusion. can someone back me up on this? it's a good way of making it a little harder, anyway.

[eLhabib]

it was like that in fusion, indeed. But the timespan only varied very little, I want it to vary for at least 3 seconds, so you can really loose your patience and anticipate it too early. The time you had to react was much longer in fusion, though, making it WAY to easy IMO.

[Seek100]

I'm sorry but I think it's a little bit silly for a race to have random start times, this would mean getting the perfect start would be blind luck rather than skill like it was in old wipEouts, if you think the 2097/w3o starts were too easy then you could simply make the target area of the speedo a bit narrower.

[element42]

No, I don't think you understand, Seek. The point at which the announcer says 'Go!' would occur a random(ish) amount of time from the point at which he says 'Ready'. You would still know when the race had started, but you'd have to have quick reflexes to hit the gas as 'go' is said to get a boost start; when the amount of time between 'ready' and 'go' is the same for every race, you instinctively know when to accelerate to get boosted, which requires no skill, just experience.

[Dogg Thang]

I don't really mind that it's so easy. It's not a feature I'd be particularly attached to. In the races against AI, it really doesn't matter whether you get it or not and in TTs, if you miss it, you're not going to bother doing the whole 4-5 laps after a bad start. You'd just start again until you get the boost, rendering the feature pointless.

Anyone who has played the first three WO games must have gone through those restart cycles until you got the speed boost - in my opinion that's not actually a good thing and doesn't enhance gameplay. So the way it is now is fine for me.

[G'Kyl]

I agree with Dogg Thang, the quick start is nothing more than a nice feature that takes away a rather boring acceleration period until you reach full speed, and on the other hand, the start in Wipeout 1 to 3 was more of an annoyance since you had this long time at the starting grid and would get the speed start anyway about everytime. There should be something to make a quick start worth your effort, but not too much.

Ben

[Rapier Racer]

the opponents are made to go much faster than their top speed for maybe half the first lap in order to give you someone to overtake for the rest of the race, it's been in all the wipEouts.

That wasn't implemented so well in Fusion *multiple voices shouting SURPIRSE!* On Florion Heights 3 I used to get the boost and go past every craft except the leading 2, so you could basically keep up with the Piranhas for the supposed fast lap, and I was using Van Uber the fastest ship on the game as well

It doesn't really matter to me what speed boost system they use because after a few shots it becomes easy to get it every time, however the boost is one of those things you just simply must have in Wipeout, like Feisar of the missile :) It wouldn’t be the same if they took it out no matter how pointless it may seem

[Dastardly]

Assegai Developments wrote:
''It wouldn’t be the same if they took it out no matter how pointless it may seem.''

I agree. Id rather have it in as it is than not at all.

Its just a shame they made it so easy.

[Rouni Kenshin#1]

It is made a little easy but as we have said it has little conqusense because it dosent really chance the race. It agree with Dog Thang and Dasterdly To do a quothtion you sround the quote with the sign mad by clicking the quote button on the post a reply screen.




(sorry about the mix up but i ment that you put the quote symboles around the text that you wanted to quote and not the whole post. and if you were confused i was not refering to the quote button on the post on the thred but the one where you are typeing in text)(sorry about the mixup)

[Lance]

.
to do a quote of the part he was referring to by using the method you suggest would have quoted the whole damn thing, which does not follow the WZ guidelines. the form shown is a reasonable way to do it. in fact, i edited it into that form because his partial editing after using the accursed quote button left the part he was actually referring to directly seem as though it had been said by Seek100.

it is better to use the minimum of quoting and the maximum of your own thought
.

[lunar]

There was never any reason to miss speed-starts in the early wipeouts either - you could get them every time if you were awake, with a few exceptions like on Sagarmatha, 2097, TT, when the rev counter, or whatever you want to call it, was camouflaged against the track. That might cause a few restarts - as might tricky starts like Altima on 3SE when you had to execute a very nifty breaking move with millesecond timing, with the controller already turning the ship to the correct angle prior to the start, in order to avoid slamming into the ships infront and losing a few seconds - which meant no race record.

Pure starts are fine. They get the race going efficiently and that`s what really counts. I thought they were random - which shows how much attention I`m paying and is probably why I miss them occasionally. I miss about 1 in 10 on Xlink :oops: either because I go to sleep while waiting for one of the other players to finally get connected, or because I lose patience with him and start to type a little encouragement into the chat pane.... and of course its at that moment that the race starts and I`m still fumbling for my PSP while the action`s going on without me. :roll: I`m fairly sure that in Pure you get a super-speed start if you press go at the same time as the man says it. But it has to be simaltaneous - no-one can react fast enough to do it - not even if their usual job is steering spaceships through asteroid fields at the speed of light. The only way to do it every time is to learn to count milleseconds in your head or, probably more easily, to use the Force - though I wouldn`t put that past some of the people round here.

[eLhabib]

some people here mentioned the lack of importance of a speed start in a race. Against CPU enemies that's absolutely true, they will catch up anyway if you boost, and you don't lose much if you don't.
On xLink however, missing a speed start can lose you the whole race. To get a comfortable lead it is very important to try and break away from the pack within the first lap. If you miss the boost start, you are instantly behind by some 2 or 3 seconds, you have to dodge bombs and mines, and then you have to tackle through the pack, which is always a messy and shield-draining procedure.

[lunar]

Very true - human competitors are quite unobliging and don`t slow down again after the first lap.

A speed start can be useful against the cpu in Pure, sometimes. Many have complained about the vicious AI in Pure on Phantom - well the best way to counter that in some cases is to have a storming first lap and end it either in a good position - or not too far behind the pack so you can pass them quickly at the start of lap 2 when the AI pilots reach for the sweets on the dashboard or whatever it is they do at that point. On some tight tracks if you get behind you`ll just be the object of a turkey shoot for the rest of the race - getting a good start can be essential to not letting this happen.

[element42]

Many have complained about the vicious AI in Pure on PhantomReally? Jesus! And I thought the AI was harsh in Flash! I await with baited breath the unlocking of the faster classes....

[infoxicated]

I thought the thrust-sensative speed starts on Wipeout 3 were ace - you had to have the pad just about rumbling, and I don't think it was that easy to get that you got it every time, either.

Maybe Colin can shed some light, but I think the reason they are so easy to get in Pure was part of the attempt to pussy-fy the game to make it more mass market. Like the dumbing down of Vector and the inclusion of *gags* Flash *vomits* to give the game a more even learning curve for newbies.

// Off for a shower with some bleach and steel wool now that I've said the word Flash. *shudders* *gags again* *voms on empty* *wretches*

[Mobius]

I still think it should've been called vortex class. But then again it has 3 v's in a row.


I thought the thrust-sensative speed starts on Wipeout 3 were ace - you had to have the pad just about rumbling, and I don't think it was that easy to get that you got it every time, either.

My ps2 has a fault, meaning that the pads no longer vibrate so i have had to do this by eye since i have had the game; Which is cool' as I have roughly a 99% success rate. :)

[Colin Berry]

The speed starts were made easier to help the mass market, the original timing window was a lot tighter, however feedback from both the Japanese and American QAs led to some adjustments. We have to appeal to more than the hardcore fans, thats the reality and its a reason some elements are made more accessible.

The inclusion of a speed class between Venom and Rapier was purely because it was my personal feeling that the gap between the two had always been too much.


And if we do another, maybe we should call it Wipeout Flash, just for Rob .. .

:twisted:

[infoxicated]

The inclusion of a speed class between Venom and Rapier was purely because it was my personal feeling that the gap between the two had always been too much.
Don't tell me - once you got to Rapier your eyes would bleed? :twisted:

[Rouni Kenshin#1]

The human factor really makes the speed boost essential and the 5 speed class really gave yoiu a different experience on each one, giving the game more replay value.


I personally find the AI harder on Rapier than on Phantom, but the speed and extra lap made it feel that control was more important than avoiding the AI.

[Megatron42]

The point at which the announcer says 'Go!' would occur a random(ish) amount of time from the point at which he says 'Ready'. You would still know when the race had started, but you'd have to have quick reflexes to hit the gas as 'go' is said to get a boost start; when the amount of time between 'ready' and 'go' is the same for every race, you instinctively know when to accelerate to get boosted, which requires no skill, just experience.

That would be cool. Sometimes it feels like it actually is doing that ...

Of course it would only work in Pure because there's no countdown. Otherwise sometimes it would be like "3...2...1GO!" and other times it would be like "3...2...1...........*crickets*......GO!"