need help with spanish language

[Thruster2097]

I have bought a "teach yourself spanish" CD thingie for my computer because it's been years since i've either been to spain or been to school so I wanted to brush-up and review some of the basics, just to make sure.

I've always thought the spanish word for chicken (pollo) was pronunced more like po-yo but everything on this disc is pronuncing the ll more like a J. Pollo sounds more like po-jo.

Am I missing something, or is this just some sort of ameri-spanish hybrid accent?

xeik, any knowedgeable wipers out there... help please?

[Drakkenmensch]

In spanish, the double L is usually pronounced the same as the letter L followed by a quick Y sound, so "pollo" would be pronounced "pol-yo"

(quickly edited for horrible typo)

[Hellfire_WZ]

I was taught pronounce LL as just Y when I took Spanish.

[Thruster2097]

Exactly as I was taught, the ll has a Y sound to it.
This disc cant be on sale if it's wrong, can it?

[xEik]

Pronuniation of LL in Spanish varies greatly depending on the region of Spain the speaker comes from.

If the speaker is from South America the difference is even greater.

For example, someone from Madrid will pronounce it like 'poyo' while someone from Buenos Aires (Argentina) will pronounce it more like 'pojo'.

In most other places (Catalonia included) the pronunciation of LL is different from any sound I've heard in any of the other languages I know. So I wouldn't be able to explain.
Maybe I can record a sample and upload it to my WO profile.

If you want to know if the pronunciation in the CD comes from South America just check when they pronounce the letter 'z' or the combination 'ce' or 'ci'.

A Spanish speaker will usually say it like the 'th' in thumb but an American speaker will say it like an 's'. However, this is also the case for some people from the south of Spain (mainly AndalucÃ*a) with very strong acccent (although I doubt this would be included in a learning CD).

Keep them coming. :D

[Thruster2097]

thanks xeik, I suspected it may have been an ameri-spanish accent creeping in.

If I get any more problems, you'll be the first to know, and sorry for using such a basic example but it took me by surprise when the speaking test failed me for it!

Thanks again, and I will look into the "z" accent for you too.

[Mano]

mejor pide la res

[xEik]

Well, my English accent isn't bad for someone who has never been in an English speaking country (or so I've been told) but whenever I try using spoken commands, my computer fails to recognise almost every one of them. Even the most basic ones. :?

I think your teachers' telling you to use Y for LL is just because one of the possible pronunciations is a sound you already know and the other isn't. However I believe the one I couldn't really explain is the most "correct" pronunciation. If there is such a thing.

[Mano]

Does the R.A.E. (Real Academia Española) have any pronunciation rules or dictionary?, phonems?

that could be a guideline.

[xEik]

I'm not really sure.

However, the Spanish spoken in the region of Castilla (it includes several administrative regions like Castilla-La Mancha and Castilla-León) is usually considered the purest one.

After all, it originated there, hence the Spanish language is also called Castilian (castellano). A name that american speakers prefer, I think mainly for political reasons.

[Seek100]

Castillian did originate in Castille, in the far north in what is now Cantabria and the surrounding area, everything south of it spoke Mozarabic the language spoken by those living in the Muslim dominated areas, Castillian only spread to what is now called Castilla because of the reconquista, same reason why Catalá spread from the county of Barcelona all the way south to Valencia and Murcia, and onto the Ballearic islands, Astur-Leonese didn't do so well being hemmed into the north by Castillian and Portuguese, some say it will be dead within 2 generations.

xEik, how does a Catalan person pronounce ll, I don't really know much about Catalá except that it's closer to Occitan (spoken in southern France) than Spanish as it descended from the same roots, from what little I've read of it it's very distant from Castillian and the other Iberian Romance languages.

[xEik]

Castillian did originate in Castille, in the far north in what is now CantabriaYou are right. The regions currently named Castilla weren't actually part of Castilla when the language originated. As you said, it originated in Cantabria before the 'Reconquista'.

Catalá spread from the county of Barcelona all the way south to Valencia and MurciaI'm not aware that Catalan has ever been spoken in Murcia, although it could be. At present there's even a region in the south of Valencia where Catalan isn't spoken. BTW it's CatalÃ*. There's no 'á' in Catalan. ;)

xEik, how does a Catalan person pronounce llIt's almost the same as the Spanish sound I couldn't explain. :?

I've read of it it's very distant from Castillian and the other Iberian Romance languages.You can think of Catalan as the branch of the Romance languages tree that sits between French and Spanish. Some of its characteristics are similar to French, some to Spanish. It's just normal since language development depends greatly on geographical locations and we are in the middle. :) However, having been under Spanish government for about three or four hundred years we've lately received much more influence from Spanish than we have from French.

[Seek100]

Sorry about the á but I don't know what key combination to press to get 'Ã*' and I was too lazy to go into the character map.

I've read the ethnologue reports on most all of the Romance languages and it turns out CatalÃ* and it's dialects ValenciÃ* and Balear is classified as one branch of the Ibero-Romance group together with Occitan (southern France) and Western Iberian (the branch that contains all the other Iberian languages like Asturian, Galician, Portuguese, Castillian etc.

Obviously you are right, the Spanish influence is going to be the strongest nowadays like the Sicilian I'm trying to learn is very different to what was spoken on the island in the 1300s, there's much more northern Italian in it nowadays.