PSP for sale, if anyone is interested.

[Space Cowboy]

I've decided to sell my PSP, lovely thought it is I need the money for travelling.
For anyone that is interested i've listed it on e-bay
Its in perfect condition, with updated firmware, Wipeout Pure and Gamma 1

If you can offer me a good price i.e £170+ then we can arrange a direct sale. P&P will differ on your location but If ur local I'll pay it. :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8200491231&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&rd=1

[Space Cowboy]

Well it would seem that Sony wrote to ebay and asked them to remove my psp!! :evil: I am furious about this! They have no right to do that, they claim i was infringing copyright which is rubbish because my psp and all its games etc were %100 legal!

Any ideas what they are playing at?

anyway im relisting it asap, and going to my solicitor. :D

[Sausehuhn]

Maybe they weren't happy about the "Gamma Pack 1 already installed" - they want that the Packs are downloaded by their owners if I understand that right. Read the "DO NOT SHARE DOWNLOADED PURE CONTENT" - thread in the pure-forum. I think the title says all.

Maybe you should list it without the Gamma Pack - say that DC is already available; this makes the whole auction attractive as well :)

[Space Cowboy]

Good point mate, I'll try it without the Gamma pack listing. :D

[Dogg Thang]

That won't do it - it's not the Gamma pack. Sony are trying to stop people importing PSPs and have ordered eBay to pull any eBay PSP auctions. They have stopped Play-Asia selling PSP goods to UK and are working on other companies. Apparently Sony themselves have written to 600 eBay sellers looking for the names and details of the people they sold to.

[Sausehuhn]

8O
But they have no rights to do that, have they? It's my own - and I can sell when I want, can't I?
Sorry, but I don't understand that. It's Sonys mistake, not our. If the PSP would be available all over the world and they hadn't had problems with this f*cking release date the most people had buy the console in a normal shop, but so the had to import when they wanted to play with the PSP.
And what's with all these people who just wanna sell it because they don't want it anymore, need the money or what ever? Hey, what's Ebay for when I can't sell what I don't need anymore?!

[Sumimasen]

If Sony wanted to stop people in Europe buying grey PSPs, then maybe they should have treated us with the respect we deserve and hurried up with the official launch. I thought the days of waiting a year from Japanese launch for a European launch were well behind us, but Sony seems intent on keeping that unwelcome tradition alive.

Their heavy handed approach to the video games industry has done as much harm as good since the launch of the PS1 IMHO, but that's another story... :evil:

[Space Cowboy]

Oh man that is ridiculous! Sony really dont have a clue do they?, Well I could always try the local paper.
Im sure my solicitor can find a way to make some money out of sony in this instance, theres got to be something I can sue for :D

[Lance]

.
[my opinion] the right to the download content comes with the price you paid for the game, and it was also your own effort that got the download itself; that download is yours now. it is your right to sell what you bought. if you buy a CD player and a collection of music CDs [hardware and software], it is your right to sell it
.

[Space Cowboy]

I have just recieved an email from SCEE, they claim that I was violating their copyright because it is illegal to sell a psp in europe until September 1st 2005. They have hunted down all psp listings on ebay.

[Lion]

I was about to ask "where the hell does it say that?" but then I read the bottom of my PSP box... "-The export , business or commercial use, rental or leasing of this product are prohibited to the extent allowed by law." and " This product may fall within the scope of national export control legislation. you must comply fully with the requirements of such legislation and of all applicable laws of any jurisdiction in relation to this product"
Which I guess could be construed as no sale outside of this products original country of sale. although if you got in trouble for it should be defendable by handing the blame further up the ladder to the company that sold it to you in the first place

no matter how you look at it though
this is f*ing stupid

[Hellfire_WZ]

What an utter joke. While I must admit I do buy a considerable amount of Sony stuff, it's stuff like this that is the reason why I have absolutely no respect for them as a company. As everyone is saying, they brough this on themselves by bollocking us with a ridiculous release date. It's about time people stood up for themselves rather than sit back and watch Europe get screwed over time and time again. Seeing as it's going to be sold at a ridiculous price over here anyway, I sincerely hope people start importing again once it has been released just to spite them.

[Sausehuhn]

and why do you still find so many PSPs on ebay? :roll:

[Sumimasen]

Logistically it should be possible to launch in the main territories within a matter of months. I read that the XBOX360 will launch in the three main territories within a space of TEN DAYS!!! Not only does that show a lot more respect for potential consumers worldwide, but will also make importing costly and pointless.

Now I don't have much respect for MS either, but this has to be a vast improvement over Sony's policy? Shame that WipEout won't be released on XBOX... :cry:

[Sausehuhn]

Shame that it won't be released for any other console than the PSP. Even not for a home console :cry:

[Hellfire_WZ]

Another point. If Sony wanted to discourage importing, they should have region locked the console. They didn't, so that's their problem, I don't see why everyone else should have to suffer because of it.

[Sausehuhn]

No, I think it was/is a kind of marketing that they did not make region codes. It shows that the PSP is playable all over the world one more time. Buy the console at home and take it with you on holidays. And then you see a game you want and: hey, you can buy it - THAT'S portable gaming.
You know what I mean?

And also if they had region locked games - then alot of people had imported the games as well.

[Sumimasen]

Edge magazine reported that although the console was technically region free, the games CAN be coded to one specific region. UMD movies are coded using the same method as DVDs.

If a publisher decides to region lock a game, and they use the same measures as the UMD coding, UK games could still work on Japanese conoles and vice versa (as in the case of DVD/UMD movies, we are both region 2).

[lunar]

I don`t think its going to be a problem. Found this link on eurogamer:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9706

Even if they wanted to sue us or get our psps off us there`s no way they can. I think the stuff written on the box just warns you to obey an individual country`s import/export laws and regulations. Unless you have broken the law, which you haven`t in importing a PSP, there`s nothing they can do. Though its very harsh to go after people like Space Cowboy, Sony may be the subject of some slightly unfair accusations here, but let`s not get into that one..... 8O

[Hellfire_WZ]

No, I think it was/is a kind of marketing that they did not make region codes. It shows that the PSP is playable all over the world one more time. Buy the console at home and take it with you on holidays. And then you see a game you want and: hey, you can buy it - THAT'S portable gaming.
You know what I mean?

And also if they had region locked games - then alot of people had imported the games as well.

I see what you mean, but the fact that the PSP wasn't region locked was a BIG factor in whether I imported or not, and I'd expect that's the same for several others too. If it was, I wouldn't have wanted to go through the hassle of importing every time I wanted a new game. This is a pretty individual example, but you see where I'm coming from?

[Sausehuhn]

Yeah, I know. But as I said before: the no-locked games are good marketing. And Sony knows how to make good promotion.
I just wanted to say, that there would still be imports if they had locked the games - I agree that these imports weren't as much as they are without locking the games. But they would still be enough
So or so: it's no crime to sell things on ebay - no matter if they're imports or not. Where's the difference?

[Hellfire_WZ]

I can't see Sony's case on eBay. Surely when something is second-hand, it is the owner's property and the owner's right to sell it as they please. Sony have already made the revenue from the product when sold new. You don't see car manufacturers up in arms when someone sells on their car if it isn't available in a country to begin with, and you see that all the time on eBay.

If they pull out the "lost revenue in the European market" excuse, then they shouldn't have pissed us all about in the first place.

[Space Cowboy]

Thats a damn good point about the cars, they must be subject to the same intellectual property rights as any consumer goods. Yet import motors are free available on ebay.
I was always under the impression that ebay took a neutral stance on the buying and selling of goods? considering you can buy firearms and other questionable goods freely without intervention, i find this attitude by sony a little over the top.

[zargz]

I've decided to sell my PSP, lovely thought it is I need the money for travelling.I'd buy it but I need the money for .. that's right - travelling! ;)
I actually bet on your psp and got the same mail but didn't get what they ment til I read this thread :? !

[sip]

I buy a lot Sony products, yet all they give their customers is trouble and a big kick in the bu**. I can't believe them being so uptight...they should be ashamed and crying in a corner for the dead pixel issue. I went through 5 PSP's before getting a perfect one! I did not buy mine off Ebay, but I don't see what's wrong with that...heck, I purchased my Xbox on Ebay.

[Space Cowboy]

Yeah i think they sent messages out to all you guys who bid :(
Thanks for your interest though man :)

IAfter reading that article in the link above, I am hoping sony dont take this further with other individuals that have bought import PSP's.

[Hellfire_WZ]

They couldn't even if they wanted, they don't have the right. Well, at least if they don't want to lose a huge chunk of their consumers.

[Lance]

.
'' it is illegal to sell a psp in europe until September 1st 2005.''
according to what law? did they cite a specific law or are they just seeking to intimidate with bullshit?. last time i looked, a corporation's desires are not law until it has bought enough of the legislators to get one passed in its favour
.

[Space Cowboy]

I can post a copy of the letter for anyone thats interested (if its allowed??)
Unfortunately i dont have anywhere to link it from :(

[lunar]

Lance: so cynical..... so true. :wink:

It would be an interesting read Space Cowboy. There`s no reason I can think of why you shouldn`t allow other people to read it.

Another thing..... there are some data protection issues here. I`m not sure of the legal situation with ebay giving Sony people`s email addresses, if that`s what has happened. A quick glance at the ebay terms and conditions revealed nothing to my untrained legal eye, but it strikes me as not particularly good practice. No-one has broken the law. AFAIK you can`t change the law after the fact to make something retrospectively criminal. Furthermore if I find the company I bought my PSP from have given Sony my details they`ll be receiving some spiky prose from this direction too.

[Space Cowboy]

Heres the letter in full for those of you that would like to read it.
Im sorry for the size of the post :( I know Lance likes to keep the place tidy :wink:


Dear Mr. Philips,

We have been authorised by Sony Computer Entertainment Europe (SCEE) to
act on its behalf regarding eBay items. We have sent the specific item
numbers of you to SCEE for verification. They confirmed that you are
selling (a) PSP('s) on eBay without their authorization.

You are violating SCEE's internationally registered trademark by selling
a similar item depicting our client's SCEE®, SONY® and/or PSP® trademarks on
eBay.

The term SONY®, the SONY® logo and PSP® on the individual products are all
internationally registered trademarks of SCEE.
Due to the fact it is not allowed to sell the PSP's in Europe until
September 1st 2005 (launch PSP in Europe) you are infringing our client's
trademark.
Use of SCEE trademarks in this manner constitutes trademark infringement
and unfair competition. It is also likely to cause confusion as to the
possible sponsorship by or affiliation with SCEE.
Only SCEE and its licensees are authorized to use its trademarks. We
therefore decided to de-list your item after consent from SCEE.

However, we cannot tolerate the sales of PSP's on European eBay. This
constitutes a serious trademark infringement on the SCEE brand and you can
be held liable for all damages. From now on we hope to keep eBay safe and
clean for serious sellers and buyers as yourself.

I hope I have informed you sufficiently and as instructed by eBay will
continue to de-list your eBay items if you don't have the proper
authorization by eBay. In the light of your letter I trust this has all
been a misunderstanding and wish you safe eBay selling.

The other psp's on eBay will be delisted as well.

With kind regards,


Legal Counsel

[Lance]

.
as i understand it, the PSPs sold in Japan and North America are not ''similar'' to an item to be sold at some future time by SCEE, but are in fact that identical item already sold by other units of Sony such as SCEA, and legally obtained from them either directly by the current owner or an intermediary distributor.. selling one of these items in Europe does not constitute competition for SCEA since they do not actually sell one and there is at present nothing more concrete than a possibility not fulfilled that they may in the future sell one, even though it is a rational expectation that they will eventually do so. by traditions of law, there should be no crime in selling one's personal property in such an environment, nor even after such items actually went on sale by the European marketer. it would not be proper for another company to sell imitations of a product such as the PSP, but there should be no legal complaint against a private seller of property that he legally owns
.

edit: and BTW, Sony have already gotten their money from the sale of that item. it sounds like one part of the Sony marketing organisation are upset that another part of the Sony marketing organisation got the sale and perhaps a better reputation as a consequence. Sony as a whole still already got the money regardless of which salesman it was.

[zargz]

similar ??!! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/lol.gif
I'd like to think it's exactly the Same! :D


The following listing:

8200491231 - Sony PSP handheld console (JAP) & (US)Wipeout Pure game

was removed because the intellectual property rights owner notified
eBay that the listing potentially infringes ist copyright, trademark or
other rights. Due to this claim, and the fact that the feedback system is
no longer available, we strongly urge you not to complete this
transaction. what exactly is 'intellectual propeerty' ? :?

[phoenixx]

Apparently Sony themselves have written to 600 eBay sellers looking for the names and details of the people they sold to.

What do they intend - to jail us? It's so ridiculous. They will sell 100.000s within a few months. And they have a problem with a little amount of imported machines?

And it's a joke to hunt for persons who sell a single used machine. I hope Space cowboy will succeed with his solicitor.

What will they do against European psp owners now?

Like Charlton Heston said to the NRA: "have my machine when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands"
:rock_on

[Manic]

This is exactly why you should defy the wishes of the authorities and set up smaller establishments who make direct hand-to-hand deals with new software and hardware, preferably under the cover of some major electronics store, or possibly some other international establishment like coffee houses, importers and mailing companies, restaurants... you know, just get the f***ing machines out there. It would be a huge market, and as long as the information and clientel contact was spread and made without easily checked sources (such as the Internet) you'd be running something reasonably safe and profitable.

[lunar]

I suppose the last thing Sony want at euro release time is for people to be able to buy PSPs for less money off ebay and importers - so they want to shut all that down well in advance of that happening. So if they`re going to take bigger traders off ebay they`ll want to stop individuals selling their PSPs too. This doesn`t mean its right. As Lance has pointed out their argument is pretty shaky in that letter, and at best their assertions are unproven. But I guess they`ll succeed whether they`re right or wrong (probably wrong) because, after all, who`s going to take them on?

I don`t think its right of the "legal counsel" to be so heavy handed and to insinuate that Space Cowboy has broken the law. Its not so much an argument as a load of legal terms and assertions being chucked about for overall threatening effect. I suppose it worked..... but its not a good way to deal with an honest consumer.

[Manic]

I concur.

[Space Cowboy]

Im going to talk with citizens adivce on mon, and maybe get hold of the solicitor on tues to see if there is anyway I can fight this and have my listing re-instated.
Sony's behaviour in this matter is appalling! I imagine that a multitude of other PSP sellers are also being intimidated in this way.

[Dogg Thang]

Well Sony don't have a leg to stand on - if they did, that letter would not be so flimsy. They can get (and probably have) the best lawyers on the planet and the best they can come up with is a phony trademark violation? No trademark violation took place or could take place as a result of listing your PSP on eBay. Very flimsy indeed.

Anyone got any press contacts? This bullying tactic should be brought to the press because that's all it is - a bullying tactic. If they had anything more it would be in that letter.

Space Cowboy, would it be okay with you if I pasted the contents of that letter in another board? It's probably the generic letter sent out to eBay PSP listers but I didn't want to do it without your permission first.

[Space Cowboy]

Go ahead Dogg, spread the word, the more people that are made aware of this the better. Hopefully some good will come of it.

[Rapier Racer]

So it's illegal to sell a PSP in the UK before September the first? what about Sony? they sold a few for a tenner each on that big bargian boteque thing

[Manic]

/ Excuse me...? Have not heard of such a thing. This is news.

/ Do you have something which confirms this statement?

[Dogg Thang]

Which statement are you referring to, Manic?

[infoxicated]

/ Excuse me...? Have not heard of such a thing. This is news.

/ Do you have something which confirms this statement?
Do you ever read a topic before making a post?

I guess not...

[Manic]

/ You insult me. (<- Deserves it).

/ I was referring to what Assegai said about Sony already having sold PSP:s in the UK.

[Rapier Racer]

They did, they have an account on ebay themselves and sell stuff at dirt cheap prices and for the last few months they've had PSP's for a tenner each and then they sold some more at a fiver each, it was three a month and they told you the date and time of the sale so you had to be quick as hell to get one, they do games as well, heres a link to their account, you can see they sold mags but their doesn't seem to have been any feedback left from the PSP winners

http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZofficialPS2magazineUK

[Ally Graham]

That is because you get sent a voucher that entitles you to a PSP come 1st September

[Manic]

/ Ah.

/ So technically, it's not illegal...

[Space Cowboy]

There is an article on Gamespot.com today, where $ony have been denying persuing people over this. Perhaps a copy of the above letter should be sent to GS?
I cant believe how imature $ony are behaving regarding this matter.

[Manic]

/ Maybe they're not the ones being immature, but we are, going on and on about this ****, making comments even though we know they're a huge company and all they want is to sell stuff, sitting on our fat arses complaining, knowing their policy won't change and our whining won't do ****, so we might just as well get up and have a snack and some beer and go out and beat up random store owners to releive ourselves of our agressions...

/ Naah, that can't be right. Let's whine some more! It's fun! :)

[Rapier Racer]

Oh vouchers eh, they had a picture of the first chap who won a PSP for £9.99 and he was holding it in his hand, how misleading

[E-Magine]

Edit: Removed by Dogg for being wayyy OT.

Emil, welcome to the board! :) Unfortunately this isn't the thread for this request but maybe you can find what you are looking for in one of the other threads here?

[phoenixx]

Is it a good idea - censorship?
A hint 'you're offtopic' could be enough.
There are some people irritated by this policy.
Don't get me wrong - I love this forum - but I think a little more tolerance wouldn't be bad.

[infoxicated]

Yet there you go sending the thing further off topic.

This was Dogg Thang's first edit here and he didn't know he could split the topic. As it stands, asking about Wipeout Fusion screen savers in a topic about selling a PSP is far enough off topic for the post to have been deleted completely.

I make no apologies for the policy on this board - there are plenty of train wreck forums out there to know that this is what I prefer.

[phoenixx]

I believe a little deviation in the discussion is a normal thing and can be very entertaining.

I know your intention is to keep the level of this forum on a high level - and that's good so. I appreciate this forum.

Nevertheless there should be room in here to prevent people from being disappointed. And you know this was a point of criticism.

But I want to finish my statement with the remark:
This is the best forum I know. A big compliment to the people who run it.

And now back to the topic: :wink:
Dogg Thang wrote:
"Apparently Sony themselves have written to 600 eBay sellers looking for the names and details of the people they sold to."
Does anybody know what $ony intends?

[infoxicated]

I believe a little deviation in the discussion is a normal thing and can be very entertaining.So do I, but your opening statement was to call it "censorship", when it was simply a case of keeping the board tidy. There is a huge difference.

[Space Cowboy]

"Apparently Sony themselves have written to 600 eBay sellers looking for the names and details of the people they sold to."
Does anybody know what $ony intends?

Check my letter that I posted earlier, It gives you a pretty clear idea of $ony's policy to its customers.

[phoenixx]

$ONY wrote to Space Cowboy:
"unfair competition"
"a serious trademark infringement"
"you can be held liable for all damages"
"From now on we hope to keep eBay safe and clean"

Space Cowboy seems to be a criminal element. eBay was no longer 'safe and clean' with his PSP offer. A serious threat to the poor $ONY company.

How can he dare to offer a used PSP?

+ I bought a PSP at eBay. Where are the handcuffs?

[Lance]

.
''$ONY wrote to Space Cowboy:''
no, they didn't IIRC. they wrote to E-bay, and E-bay's lawyers wrote to Space Cowboy
.

[username]

I buy a lot Sony products, yet all they give their customers is trouble and a big kick in the bu**. I can't believe them being so uptight...they should be ashamed and crying in a corner for the dead pixel issue. I went through 5 PSP's before getting a perfect one! I did not buy mine off Ebay, but I don't see what's wrong with that...heck, I purchased my Xbox on Ebay.

dead pixels :? i never knew that the psp had a camara built into it :oops:

[phoenixx]

It doesn't. The screens have dead pixels sometimes.

[username]

if you mean when theres one or two white squares in the screen then i know what youre on about. :wink:
what is the chance of getting a psp with dead pixels in it?
the reason i want to know is because ive already given a £20 deposit!!

sorry if this is going off topic, if it is just tell me 8)

[Drakkenmensch]

That was mostly an issue with first batches, the problem has since been fixed. I bought mine about a month ago, and got a PERFECT one on the first try. I doubt that any european PSPs will suffer from this problem at all.

[Dogg Thang]

I'm not sure that's entirely correct, Drakkenmensch. Stories vary about what batches were better than others and they all seem to balance out about the same. I can say the same thing about my PSP and I had one from the first JP batch.

I think it's pot luck, and that's probably not going to change any time soon. It would be great if the EU release was free from dead pixels but I seriously doubt it will be.

[Drakkenmensch]

*nods*

Well, whatever the case may be, all our european fellow pilots have the north american and japanese communities wishing you good luck and hoping for every european pixel to be lively and full of color :)

[G'Kyl]

My guess: The issue if dead pixels was pushed when it became known for the first time. Users went all crazy about "defect" screens and those lamented all over the internet. ;) Most gamers now see that dead pixels, even if they got some, aren't really something that you notice while playing or watching videos, so it's not an issue really any more. I too have one or two dead pixels - I didn't even notice befoe i went looking for them.

Ben