Handheld conversions of older WO games...

[Dogg Thang]

I had my doubts as to the suitability of WO to a handheld. I still do - I mean you can't really play it on a bus or whatever because one bump will lose you a race and frustrate. But the handiness of PSP Pure is just excellent and it does work really well on that small screen.

So, obviously there will be more WO developed. Whether we get Pure 2 or a PS3 WO I don't know - either would be great.

But what I'd also love, as a side project, would be a WO collection for PSP. None of the previous WO games have ever been playable on a handheld before and converting and repackaging them to PSP could be a great, great thing. Even a direct conversion with little by way of modern touch-ups would make me very happy. I still reckon they'd look pretty good on the small screen.

The only thing is that (I'm not sure) I would suspect that there would be rights issues involved. Firstly, music tracks would probably need to be relicensed so we could end up with an alternative soundtrack. But also some of the graphics (such as DR work) may be tied up in messy contracts so we could see a removal of some of those (Curly in WO3 for example). Does anyone know if I'm right about that? Did Sony (or Psygnosis in the day) do a complete buyout for the design work for each particular game?

Even that, for me, wouldn't be all that big a deal. I'd just love to have older WO games on the go. What do you guys reckon - any chance of this happening?

[eLhabib]

would be neat - yes.
any chance of it happening - NO.

[Dogg Thang]

Please elaborate - why not?

[eLhabib]

Ok, first of all, as you said already, there are the legal issues. They most likely cannot use the original logos and music tracks (means all new intro FMVs also).
Secondly, it's not as easy as you might think to convert from PS1 to PSP, since they can't simply emulate the old games because of abovesaid legal issues.
And thirdly, as someone from SL, I think it was Colin, mentioned when asked about the classic tracks in purE, which differ quite a bit from the originals in terms of racing line etc., the guys at SL don't possess the original (vector) models for the original tracks, which means they had to rebuild the classic tracks by eyesight. Means they would have to rebuild every track from the old games from scratch, just based on what they see and feel when playing the old games. Not only does this take way too long, but also the tracks would never be the same as in the original games (as you can see with purE's classic tracks, and I'm not talking about the graphics).

make any sense to you?

[Lion]

also foxy said in another thread that the 321go with curly didn't make it into pure because of IP issues too
so I guess you could take that to say that studio liverpool don't have complete ownership of the IP developed by the DR

[Dogg Thang]

make any sense to you?

No need for the patronising tone whatsoever.

As for your first two points, of course I'm aware of those. They aren't dealbreakers by any means. As for the third, well, yeah I remember Colin saying that but I have to say I find it hard to imagine that they can't get access to those original files, or indeed extract the maps from the original games. This would be a very different thing to recreating them for Pure as the idea would be to work with the same engine mechanics as the original games. Also, considering the back catalog of quality PS1 games and how much the GBA gained from SNES conversions, I would hope that Sony put in place, or at least considered, a system of converting and updating PS1 games for the PSP.

They would have been nuts not to.

The fact that there are rebundled PS1 games being released for PS2 would also support this - the commercial value of the classic games, which have already paid for themselves, is too big to ignore.

[eLhabib]

I wasn't patronising in any way. that was a clear, simple question. don't take it as an offense. I'm only guessing here, so I wanted to know if it makes sense to you, too.

[Dogg Thang]

Ah okay, I apologise if I took that up wrong :) Yes, your points make sense to me although I still don't think they rule out the possibility. Rights issues can be sorted, or certain textures (Curly for example) changed, and I simply can't imagine that Sony doesn't have what it takes (be it source code or whatever) to convert PS1 WO to PSP. If Nintendo can bring over their awful RR64 to DS and a pretty good port of Mario64, I would be pretty certain that Sony can convert a PS1 game to PSP - whether that's done by Studio Liverpool (doubtful) or a third party.

[eLhabib]

Problem is that w'o'' is not as big a franchise as mario. I think they just don't feel it would pay off to do such a combined w'o'' game. And I think they would be right - w'o'' does have a rather small dedicated fan base.

[Dogg Thang]

Not sure I'd agree with you there.

Last I looked, Pure was making more than Tony Hawk (as mainstream as you can get) and, I think, even Ridge Racer. I can't remember where I first saw the figures but I was able to find this page at http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4723 that shows Pure, in March, making more than Lumines, RR, THUG, NFL, Tiger Woods and a serious amount of other totally mainstream games. Not something a niche game could do or a game with just a small fanbase. That's not actually the link I was looking for but I can't find the one with more detailed figures.

Pure is the proof that WO has mainstream appeal.

A WO collection could bridge the gap very well between Pure and the next full WO, would have limited development costs and introduce new fans of Pure to WO's history.

[eLhabib]

Wow, wasn't aware of that! Still, I think that the reason purE is selling so well is because it just IS the strongest launch title, not because those are all w'o'' fanboys buying it. Means most people (kids) just buy a PSP with purE, but as new games are coming on, they quickly forget about w'o'' again, like they would with any game once a new game is interesting.
A handheld w'o'' with all the classic games featured would be a thing only really appealing to true fans, though. Unfortunately, most people (again, kids) will just buy the game that looks the flashiest, and a remake of old w'o'' titles isn't gonna be flashy with state-of-the-art graphics and gameplay.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, I do agree with you there. And Fusion showed that you can't just slap the WO name on something and expect it to sell. But Pure, and the great reviews it got as a result of being such a strong title (unlike Fusion which didn't do so great in reviews) has created a renewed interest in WO and will have picked up many new fans.

You're totally right that many kids would ignore such a collection simply due to it not being as flashy as other titles. And it's unlikely to sell anyway near as well as Pure. But, if conversion costs were kept low and it sold at a decent price point it could still be financially rewarding. The deciding factor would be how much it costs to convert. I suspect that Nintendo probably spent very little converting RR64 for example, compared with creating a whole new game. So, even if it sells much less, it could potentially make them quite a bit of money. If there is a system developed to successfully convert PS1 games to PSP then it could work the same way. There are always going to be conversion costs, but so much groundwork is done.

The thing to look out for is if any other company tries this. I have my suspicions that Namco or someone would try to convert some of their back catalog to PSP at some stage. Will there be a market for it? Probably not a massive one but maybe enough to make it worth doing. Who knows! I'm going to stay hopeful though! I'd love classic WO on the go.

[Lance]

.
guys, this has all been discussed pretty thoroughly before in a PSP thread, the level of commercial viability, the lack of the original designs in a form that can simply be plugged in to present and future software development kits, the work that would be required for conversion, the licensing issues, etc. Wipeout Future is a new thread; it deserves new material instead of a repeat of what has already been said. it should also be about new Wipeout games, not about bringing back the old ones on a new machine. so despite the high quality of discussion in this particular thread, it is just repetition, and i am closing the thread. please discuss future Wipeout rather than past Wipeout, otherwise there would be no point in having this new Wipeout Future section of the forums.