PS3 Wipeout :)

[Space Cowboy]

Ok, I'd thought I'd start a topic themed on the next-gen Wipeout, because lets face it, there WILL be one. :)

What would you like to see in it?

Personally I'd like to see the series move back in time, as opposed to forward in time. You may ask why?
Well, I'd like to see a Wipeout set in the early years of AG- Racing, maybe around the time of the F3600 or F5000 racing leagues. I'd like to see retro-style ship designs (not carbon copies of the old craft!) represented with next gen graphics. I'd like to see the atmosphere of the old racing leagues recreated with 21st century next-gen design and flair.
By this i do not mean a mish-mash of old game content thrown together with fancy new graphics; but a fresh-new visit to the golden age of AG racing.
I mean its not stated in game development law that we have to keep advancing the timeline forward in order to bring fresh new content or ideas to a series.

I think its important for the Wipeout series to visit its roots, not only to reflect on where the series has come from, but also to inspire us to look forward and see the future of AG-Racing to come.

[infoxicated]

There are a whole load of other things that Wipeout could do next gen that I'd like to see in the game, but then I'd be expecting those things of every next gen racing game. So these are the basics of what I'm wanting:

AI AI AI AI AI, and most of all AI.

No more of the elastic band, rush off around the first corner, then sandbag for you to catch them up stuff. The next game has to have AI that feels like a real race, and provide a better gameplay experience. In Wipeout there is no track-related grip to keep everyone on the same racing line, so there's no reason why there cant be intense, side by side racing.

The gameplay in Wipeout Pure is ten years out of date, I'm afraid to say. For a game set so far in the future, it's ironic that the gameplay is so deeply rooted in the past. Back in the day it was fine and dandy to start at the rear of the grid and pick your way through the drones. Five years ago it was maybe getting a little tired. But, in 2005, I think I'm entitled to feel hard done by when what I'm getting at the most basic level is repackaged ten year old gameplay. If I get that in 2007, or whenever the next one comes out, then as far as I'm concerned I'd be done with the franchise, like I am with Gran Tourismo.

The next Wipeout just Has to be a better racing experience no matter how good it looks. I don't want to be blowing past a Piranha with a speed rating of 5 in an Assegai with a speed rating of 3, once I've caught them, like I can in Pure, because shatters the whole illusion that I'm actually racing against the other ships.

It has to have difficulty levels, too... not speed classes as difficulty levels. If I want to have a hard as nails race at Vector, I should be able to. If I want to have an easy race at phantom, I should be able to choose that too.

Next up, I'd like to see at least 20 tracks to choose from, and I don't mean ten forward ten reverse. Upwards of 20 is the standard nowadays - GT for all its faults gives you 700 cars and god knows how many tracks. Wipeout is already hamstrung because it's not a conventional racing game, so if it doesn't have the depth and content of a car based racing game it's never going to enjoy the kind of success that Burnout and GT do.

That's all from me for now... but I'll add to that as the months tick by, I'm sure. :)

[Space Cowboy]

Excellent points Fox, implementations I think everyone would love to see.
A more varied and realistic racing experience is absolutely essential to the survival of the franchise.
I especially like your point about having various difficulty levels for each racing class, that would improve the scope of gameplay no-end, as would increasing the number of tracks. Too many developers nowdays use the forward-reverse trick as a means of skimping on new track design. Its just plain laziness.
I saw a post somewhere on these boards concerning racing physics, sush as the slipstream effect. I think that these subtle but immensely effective aspects of physics should not be ignore when aiming for an altogether wholesome racing experience.

[Sausehuhn]

It has to have difficulty levels, too... not speed classes as difficulty levels. If I want to have a hard as nails race at Vector, I should be able to. If I want to have an easy race at phantom, I should be able to choose that too.

exactly, I said the same thing in the "WipEout ideas" thread. I agree 100%.

I hope we will see really good graphics, a well made design (like the one of Pure) and maybe a physic engine as well. Would like some realistic feeling without loosing the spirit of WipEout. Things like walls you can destroy I would really like. But that could be completcated, because all this should not make the game to weapon based like it was in Fusion.
I also would like to see a few classic tracks with remade textures but without a real change of their designs (most tracks aren't as good as they are with the orignal design)

So lets hope we will see a new WipEout for PS3 (maybe as a lauch title)
:)

[Chill]

What I'd like to see? Well, I'm sure the developement team will have their plans to put in their own, but the obvious AI controlling system Infox has explained is a sweet idea. I just hope their will be unlockables when racing in the harder AI races, or what drive would it give people other than the love of the challenge and preparing for online play?

Music. Perhaps to replicate mp3s from your PSP into the PS3, therefor giving use the ability to add Pure music, and replicating music from online into the PSP, then to the PS3, giving you a choice of music (when you have a PSP, which you will if your a Wipeout fan), and also giving you the ability to take older Wipeout music from the past and load it into the system. I don't know if the PS3 would be able to hold in custom music like the old Xbox can already do, but it'd sure be nice.

Good surround sound system. When you hear a rocket wizz by, it's like it's actually their!! Of a bomb go off, BOOM!!!! Much more realistic than if your craft were insilated. The PSP has a right to slow down on the sound system because it's a handheld game, but for the PS3, no. (Of course I haven't played Pure or the handheld, so if I'm wrong about it, sorry. :wink: )

Don't change the controlling system. And off-the-wall tracks. :D An awesome overall feel. This, of course, is decided by the developement team. And that's all I really can think of, and it's all about AI and sound. It's obviously gonna have good graphics, I mean, look how Pure turned out!! 8O So imagine the same work on the PS3!! :o It's gonna be friggin' awesome. :wink:

[mid]

While we're mentioning GT, though, I'll be seriously miffed if Fusion's "play the game to earn money for upgrades" strategy comes back. This is the premier entertainment event of the future; I shouldn't be replaying levels to earn the right to a turbo.

By all means allow me to tune the car like in rally games (changing the amount of flap to balance speed v. handling), but don't pretend that Auricom could run a better engine in this class, if only they could afford it.

[KingTalo]

Hmm... I've thought about this plenty of times myself. I agree, a Wipeout set in the beginning of AG racing would, indeed, be interesting. And, after seeing all the recent ps3 footage, next-gen A.I., graphics, and physics are a must.

But, unlike some, i think the future lies in creating a Deep, intense, immersive, and above all believable Wipeout experience.

In terms of aesthetics; yeah! the whole 9 yards. 1080p progressive scan, DTS sound, anisotropy, HDR lighting/shadowing, beautifully designed ships (regardless of which WO era), realistic physics modeling, Mind bending track designs etc.

I would like to see the return of ship upgrades/modifications, but this time with the framework of gran turismo. For example- Different parts would have different effects, some are used in particular situations. Maybe the weapon systems would have to be modified; example,

x rocket upgrade- With this upgrade; when you acquire the rocket weapon by running over an orange pad, you will fire 3 light rockets simultaneously instead of the default single medium.

y rocket upgrade- With this upgrade; when you acquire the rocket weapon by running over an orange pad, you will fire 1 heavy rocket instead of the default medium rocket

Maybe black market parts that carry with them certain risks, example;

AG-Amp- The Anti Grav amplifier allows your ship to remain neutrally bouyant while its AG systems are active, the result is that while airborne the pilot is capable of remaining airborne for an extended duration (until it is automatically shut down to prevent overloading). Caution; in the event of a missile-lock the Amp shuts down as self defense.

black market plasma upgrade- Vastly shortens the charge-up time of the plasma bolt (without reducing the power of the bolt), at the cost of some of the crafts shields.

Other aspects of the ships should be broadened. In this case the shields. There should be a system in place (whether through a purchasable upgrade, or by default) where depending on the circumstances, the shield power can be redirected (either manually or automatically). If anyone remembers the star wars games xwing/tiefighter they'll know what i'm saying. Perhaps it could be done through headsets/voice recognition,

examples;

You and a buddy duke it out online, trying to figure out who's the AG master. After cheaply blasting you with his triple rocket upgrade right before a blind corner, you lose not only momentum, but the rear half of your shields. Intuitively, and knowing he is now in front, you command the computer to send shield power to the front. Sure enough, as you take the corner you sail through a pile of your buddys mines. Again, you inform the computer to redirect the shields this time to the thrusters. After absorbing everything in your way, you come across a plasma bolt, and your buddy...

after blasting past the competition, the computer alerts you to an incoming quake. Not willing to risk anything you shout; "Power! REAR SHIELDS". And instantaneously, the computer redirected shield power to the rear array. After what seems like eternity, your vision reddens and you feel the violent shaking of the quake consuming your tiny ship. Luckily, it wasn't one of these black market quake upgrades you've heard so much about, and as a result of quick thinking and your opponents choice in upgrades; your shields hold out as you ride the big wave, hurtling past 5000km/h

*phew* well i'll post more later if anyone is interested.

[Lance]

.
i hate upgrades.
i just want to race.

the whole GT-[place version number here] make-money-to-buy-parts-for x-hundred-cars-thing is repetitive and boring. in that game, i do like tuning the suspension and engine for individual tracks, as long as your configuration for each track could be saved and automatically reinstituted when you come back to that track again [unless you choose to experiment further]
in Wipeout i prefer not to see any such tuning, though i would much appreciate a choice of difficulty levels [perhaps 3 of them] however, being a dial-upper with no nearterm prospects of becoming an online broadband player, i would also appreciate the continued ability to compete on times tables as we do now, but without the need for 5 zillion tables to accommodate multiple difficulty levels. presumably this could still be done by sticking to only time-trials on such tables
.

[KingTalo]

That's not very inspiring.

If that's all you want keep playing the classics. Unlike some Wipeout fans, i think Fusion had a lot going for it (Zone). Granted, certain aspects crippled the gameplay (they could have spent more time thinking about the, poorly implemented, upgrades). But i think everyones main problem with it was that it wasn't something radically different, and as a result everyone just wanted wipeout to return to its roots (which resulted with Pure), which is nice, but the gameplay concept is almost 10 years old.

Welcome Chang3.

edit by Lance: unnecessary quote eliminated. read the guidelines, please.

[Lance]

.
i still do play the classics, but i would like better AI, better graphics, settable difficulty levels for every class, new ships, and new tracks new tracks new tracks.
and i want it to be Wipeout, not GT. if i wanted to play GT, i would play GT. if you want to turn Wipeout into a GT clone without wheels, i would say that was not very inspiring.

very few of the WZ members liked Fusion, but not just because it was novel; it was because the novelties were, with the exception of zone mode, either poorly executed, or poorly conceived. the zone mode novelty was and is very popular.
.

[Space Cowboy]

Lance

Agreed. I was not keen on the upgrade system, for one it seemed far too general. I do like the idea of tweaking craft handling aspects though for specific tracks, but its an untested aspect and could easy go tits up if not implemented in the correct manner.
Also I think the weapon aspect needs toning down a tad.
One thing I would hate to see is moving barriers and other 'gimmicks' attched to tracks, they just downright suck.

[yawnstretch]

I think Pure is the right road to follow. Lets not get bogged down with extra features.

A NextGen WipEout: we're happy with the game-play. Now lets have mind blowing graphics and sound.





-and headset multiplayer :D

[Space Cowboy]

Yeah! defo!
Keep it simple, keep it fast, and above all, keep it Wipeout! :D

[nortie_boy]

Some of my thoughts on a PS3 edition.

I'd like to have more feeling of emersion within the race, I felt the WO3 with it's cockpit view went some way to doing this. If each sled had a beautifully detailed cockpti, with maybe a hud display of somekind and various ambient cockpit sounds. Somekind of rear vision display would be welome too. Not one you switch to but one that is like a rear vison mirror/display. Having the full length of sled out infont of you might work not too sure, but if the view's to obscured by that oo much then I think it would work well. WO3 droped the front of the ships competely.

Also the race start sequence could be set in a sled prep area below the track, quite dark with the odd light from monitoring equipment ambiently glowing. Muffled noise of the cheering crowed can be heared from above (5.1 :P) when with a hiss the track doors above you slide open, light from above (or rain if it's raining) flooding the the cockpit (HDRI??), the sound of the crowd is suddenly much louder,the sled it jolts upo as it's elevated to track level with the canopy securing itself.

hmm a bit verbose, sorry, :) of course this could be skipped and maybe set as a prefered option.

One other small thing I kinda missed in Pure from WO3, wich I thought went a long way to atmosephere during wet races, was the reflection and glow of the engine exhausts on the wet track. Of course nextime round all most all light sources should be relected to some degree in the track. Maybe the sleds could throw up a small bit of spray too, as they speed along which might effect you visibility if your in the wake.

ALso i though a simple decal editor might be kinda cool, especially for online play. Maybe just limited to placing team symbols and logos, sponsor decals also? Colour would be locked but maybe you could choose conpoy colour or customising features elsewhere.

The gamplay paradigm of starting last does need to change too in mho. Like has been stated here it's outdated and with better AI maybe somekind of system of Qualifying could be employed, skipped by those who want to dive right in.

OK better stop there :)
There's soo much more I'd like to see.. maybe I'll think about it more distill it and make another post.

Just though of another one... MORE Opponents! Even up 15 or 20?? 2097 fielded 12 and pure's down to 8(hardware limitation?). More competitors would probably mean slighty wider home straights so everyone has room to jostel for position before the first turn at the start of the race.

[DJ Ikari]

I'm really liking these ideas, I think if we could do the uber extreme cockpit and use a PS3 friendly Pure engine-thing, then that Wipeout would be sweet. I also love paying homage to the orginials, the ones that started it all (Loved Tekken 5 cause of what it did), so I'd love to see a 'Classics' mode, that lets you play the previous Wipeouts the way they were made, and then a 'Remix' version, with revamped graphics/sounds/everything using the PS3 Wipeout's physics and everything. That would be most drool-worthy...

[Shem]

Oh, i'd like to see that too, but i think that it would be like writing the previous games from the start, especially W'O". And the legal issues of course. That would be really nice tho.

Now, let me think, what things would i like to see in Wipeout for ps3? I think i listed all the things in THIS TOPIC (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1517).
[/url]

[Gunbound]

New here, but played since the original on PS (one)....

My two cents?

For one, BRING BACK DESIGNER'S REPUBLIC. They are the best at what they do, and you can't deny that they laid the groundwork for the whole series in terms of style.

Next, remake all of the tracks from WipeOut, WipeOutXL and Wip3out, but do them with the complex scenery and vivid detail that the makers thought of when they created them. And in beautiful HD quality.
*edit: Spilskinanke anyone?!?!*

Third, get this game back to what it's about: speed and skill. Step up the difficulty of the tracks to Wip3out standards. Bridges barely wider than your ship, mind-numbing speeds, brutal computer AI would be nice too.

Fourth? Internet compatibility. A world ranking system! Leagues! Let's see it happen!

Last, but not least, let's get back to slammin club tracks from huge names like Sasha and Digweed, Sander Kleinenberg, Deep Dish!

Edit

[Prometheus]

Yeah, online play! let's have a proper racing federation! the ability to have tournaments and some official servers, perhaps even the opportunity to watch replays of races...

Remake wipeout... definately! Let's see wipeout original, 2097 and 3 looking just like their FMV sequences! It's be brilliant! Also inlcude wipeout 64... the tracks were brilliant, Pirahna 2 was a dream machine!

Some of the wide tracks in fusion were good, I think maybe some wide tracks would be nice... of course, with increased number of craft racing, this would be good.

[Sausehuhn]

I like the idea that a small movie is starting before the race (like it is in Fusion, you see all the crafts). So the Fusion race-intro-sequence and before that a view from under the track (the hanger) like you can see it in the game-intro-movie of Fusion (it was Mandrashee).

Also different paint jobs for every craft. Not just 2, I want 5 or something combined with some sponsors (like nortie_boy already said). But I wanna have the chance to change every single craft. Not make one different and all the others are different too (like it is in Pure).

I also would like to see some wider track sections like it is in Fusion. Not the whole track, just some parts (like this section at Florion Height).

[KingTalo]

I guess if everyone just wants more of the same, the series (however great it is/has been) is doomed to become a formulaic rehash of everything we've seen before. I like 1/2/3/pure way more than fusion, but at least fusion was moving forward (and it's ok if they made mistakes, but what's the point if they were never allowed to learn from them.

[Sausehuhn]

Yes, I think I have to agree.
Fusion combined with a 1/2/3/Pure handling and narrow tracks would have been a really good WipEout I think.
Maybe you don't like the style of the game, but I don't think we shuld discuss what's "WipEout" style - in my eyes every WipEout has a a different style, not 1, 2, 3, and Pure one and Fusion another.
I really like Fusion's design and I know some don't.

So or so, the next WipEout won't be so much different to the old games and Pure at gameplay.
I think Fusion was a mistake for so most people, so we won't see a new WipEout that will have the parts that Fusion has (just the zone mode will still exist).

I would like to tune the crafts a little bit, but I don't think Liverpool will make a game like this because the most won't like it...

[eLhabib]

I totally agree that games should advance over time. I am not a big fan of nintendo-style bringing out a new version of every game franchise they have on every new console.

However, I think that these advancements shouldn't take the game away from what it was originally meant to be.
When I think of wipEout, I think of pure straightforward racing. High speeds, tight turns, lots of adrenalin.
And I think of a slick, futuristic (but not in a mainstream kind of fashion) graphical style.
That's what defines wipEout for me.

Everything that takes the game away from those main aspects is not welcome (see 'tuning' and 'dirt racing', two aspects of fusion that just don't fit the clean style of w'o'').

That's why I love purE so much. It advanced in many ways (energy absorption instead of pits, alternative graphical styles like the zone mode and classic tracks, downloadable content, various front end skins, various ship paintjobs, more agressive AI...), but stayed absolutely true to the roots of the franchise.
As long as the next wipEout follows the same principles, I think it will be a game much appreciated by most pilots.

[Chill]

Man, everything that has come up sounds really really good. I do love the idea of bringing back the older tracks and better graphics a lot. But about paint jobs, could we actually 'paint' the craft ourselves with the team colors to choose from? And then show them off to other players online? (God!!! My heart races just thinking of this stuff!!!) Some may like to personalize their crafts. Mabye they would allow you to attach on a flag of some sort of something, signifying where your from, or whatever. I don't know, but at the rate you guys have been going on this topic, my ideas are probably going to be blown away like a weak little feather. :lol:

[Gunbound]

I guess if everyone just wants more of the same, the series (however great it is/has been) is doomed to become a formulaic rehash of everything we've seen before. I like 1/2/3/pure way more than fusion, but at least fusion was moving forward (and it's ok if they made mistakes, but what's the point if they were never allowed to learn from them.

Well, when I'm talking about remaking the wipeout 1/xl/3 tracks I mean having them as unlockable "secret" tracks in the future game. I think wipe0ut diehards would love it, and you wouldn;t have to compromise moving the game forward. I'll agree, fusion was a step forward, but what's a step forward if it's off the edge of a cliff? Street Fighter games have held, more or less, the exact same formula for over 15 years and look how popular those games still are. WipeOutXL and wip3out hit on something so perfect, there's no need to change the basic game. I really think it can stand on its own just like SF.

[Chill]

what's a step forward if it's off the edge of a cliff?
To learn to never step near their again, as explained above. We learn from our mistakes. :wink: It was a blinded try to improve, and their's no shame in that. :)

[Gunbound]

Absolutely. I agree, it's a good thing to test out new ground. I'm just saying you don't have to worry about wipeout getting stale, because the core gameplay is top-notch. Just like street fighter: you don't have to change the core of the game to evolve it!

[Troopa3k]

Hi there! First post here, so hope this goes down well! :D

Personally, I agree with the core arguments of what has already been stated, and believe that Wipeout on the PS3 should expand the series as follows:

- Better AI - No starting last and working through...lets have a proper race, perhaps even with a qualifying lap before hand?

- Better graphics - Yeah, I know graphics aren't the be all and end all of games, but Wipeout has always been about the state of the art in terms of visuals, and that should continue - the opportunity to unleash breathtaking vistas upon us mid-race should not be missed! 1080p isn't essential for me as this could cripple the frame rate, or the detail levels, and as there are bugger-all TV's that can do this, 720p would be fine with me!

- Traditional Music - Trance, dance, anything you would hear in a decent club (not Ministry of Sound/Best of CD crap)....perhaps even a return for Cold Storage.

- Tuning - I thoroughly hated the whole upgrade system of Fusion, and agree that essentially all craft should be 'equal' (some can go fast and turn crap, others are vice versa, and some are good all-rounders), but perhaps the ability to tune a vehicle before hand would be good. As said before, adjusting flaps, to knock of say 5% of speed, but increase handling 5% would be nice (and, at the risk of becoming overly complex, perhaps have say 'expansion bays', where you can add a shield, or a turbo, or two shields, etc, before a race, but if you dont leave a bay free, you can't pick stuff up from the track mid-race? This isnt an essential, more food for thought).

- The standard Wipeout modes should be in there (Time Trial, Single Race, Zone, and the standard Wipeout championship), but perhaps there should be another mode in there, a proper 'sport' mode. So, for example, you start off in the Vector league, and you race on the tracks against others at Vector speed. If you win the league, you get promoted to Venom, Rapier, etc. And likewise, if you lose a league, you go down at the end of the season. You could also have race-offs, so the 2nd and 3rd place have a one on one to decide who gets promoted along with first place, and 2nd and 3rd from last have a race off to decide who gets demoted. Further, during the league, you could also be entered into other competitions (such as Domestic Cups, or International events, Zone events, etc) so, like say football, there are multiple chances to put silverware in your cabinet. With a decent collection of tracks (10-20+, plus special ones for things suxh as cups, etc), this could be a great way to play, with the challenge being to win the Phantom league, and all other competitions in a single season. Then the challenge becomes defending the titles season on season.

Additionally, the return of the Designers Republic would be nice, and some form of internet ranking system would be good, even if it were simply a global Time Trial table.

At the risk of sounding contradictory however, don't make the game overly complex. Tweaking a car before a race, or taking part in leagues, whilst steps forward for Wipeout, are still relatively simple concepts in real sports, let along in games. I wouldn't want Wipeout to be bogged down, or become like GT (yawn).....and I don't fancy the idea of buying weapons before a race, or having driving lessons, etc - perhaps the best we can do is to make Wipeout as realistic as real sport's as possible (if that makes sense) - leagues, and tweaking, yeah...black markets and stuff, and I'll pass thanks. Perhaps modelling the game after something like Formula 1 would be an idea (with qualifying, tweaking then racing in a league - perhaps even with seperate driver and team leagues).

Just some food for thought (and sorry about the length!)

[Chill]

- Better AI - No starting last and working through...lets have a proper race, perhaps even with a qualifying lap before hand?
- The standard Wipeout modes should be in there (Time Trial, Single Race, Zone, and the standard Wipeout championship), but perhaps there should be another mode in there, a proper 'sport' mode.
Just some food for thought (and sorry about the length!)
First of all, welcome to the zone!! :wink: You're one of the rare. :D

-Better AI: About racing before hand, how would you start that race out? Mabye two different Time Trials all at the same time? Why not just let the machine measure your skill of flight throughout your history of play, and put in a position relative to that. Like your average speed throughout racing history, average energy remains, etc. Whaddya think?

-About your idea of a proper 'sport' mode, isn't that what a league already is, like in Fusion, which uses other stats recorded throughout the race if the players come in same places to determin who won rather than a head-to-head race at the end, like Wipeout 3? Or is the league a huge league that takes you through all the speed classes in all one play?

Now worries about the length, bud. :wink: More info for one post is awesome!! :D

[Sausehuhn]

Here're just some little adds I would love for the next WipEout:

in an AG league would like to have a qualification race before the 1st race starts. At the 1st race you start at the position you got in the qualification race. In the 2nd race you start at the position you got in the 1st race, in the 3rd race at the position you got in the 2nd race and so on.

And I would love loooong leagues. Maybe the leagues given by the computer should be just a few races long, but at the end - after cmpleting all leagues - you should get a custon league option (like in Fusion), but not just with max. 7 races, there shoulde be the possibility to make leagues more than 10 races long. Maybe 20 or so. It is really cool to have some really long leagues sometimes. Especially when you're playing multiplayer.

And I would like to enter long names as well. 20 or more letters would be nice. In 2097 you just can enter 3 letters (and in Pure it's the same if I'm right). Especially in Fusion it was a bad thing. If you entered a nickname it was bad to see the statistics with all the pilots and then your nickname.
...
... Natasha Belmodo
... Songen Grey *
... Sausehuhn << what is this?! It's crap! "real" names combined with a nickname!? Nooo!
... Omarr Khumala
...

* I don't think Songen Grey will be better in a race than I'm. I don't think Songen Grey will be better than any pilot here in the zone :wink:

PS: welcome to the forums Troopa3k :)

[Troopa3k]

First of all, welcome to the zone!! :wink: You're one of the rare. :D

Thanks for the warm welcome!


-Better AI: About racing before hand....

Either one of those ideas could be work really well, especially the idea of the computer measuring your skill and placing you accordingly. Or perhaps before each race every competitor just does a single lap on an empty track, and then your start position is determined by your time compared to the other competitors. What could make this really good would be the ability to watch the other competitors perform their laps (if you wanted to), so you could really feel like you were racing other teams, and that their lap times weren't just randomly generated by the cpu. Of course, this would be optional, so by default you would just race, or you could choose to watch the laps.


-About your idea of a proper 'sport' mode.....

Yeah, make each league large, so maybe have 16 competitors in a league, and work your way through say 20 tracks, starting at Vector speed. At the end of the season, if you finish top, you get promoted to the next league/speed up (Venom in this case), and so on. Likewise, last place means you get relegated. And then, for 2nd and 3rd place, you can have a head-to-head race as a sort of play-off, racing for the second promotion place, and likewise, for 2nd and 3rd last place, you have a head-to-head to see who doesnt get relegated. Interspersed with other events like Cups, friendly head-to-heads, etc, and it could feel like a proper sport.

Basically, take a racing game model like Formula 1 (I know I keep harping on about F1, but its the most similar sport I can think off!), and then adapt it to Wipeout - tweaking, leagues, qualifying, etc.

[piranha wiper]

lance wrote
i hate upgrades.
i just want to race.

damn right,

i would like to be able to play wipeout with any daft nonsense of upgrades, wasnt 1,2 and 3 good enough? i wouldnt mind having the wo1 handling feel back but with the wall scraping, so its like wo2097 just a bit stiffer, if you know what i mean?, oh and alo i dont want to follow the pitch of the track unless i tell the craft to do so (wo3se) that made se a bit rubish for me

[lunar]

Yes spare us the upgrades. I don`t want to spend my playing time in a garage. I would also go along with what Gunbound said above.

There`s no need to change the core gameplay of Wipeout. There`s little risk of PS3 Wipeout being stale - for the simple reason that it will be on the PS3. If SL do the job properly, assuming they do the job in the first place, it will blow our minds because it will be like nothing we`ve seen before. The only danger is that they do change it too much, so we`re too busy moaning about the dilution and corruption of the basic game to enjoy the next-gen work that`s gone into the game. This is partly what happened to Fusion. Nobody cared about the shiny new graphics because they`d killed the game.

I think Pure is a fantastic realisation of Wipeout given the limitations of the small screen on the PSP, the limitations of the PSP as a controller, and the limited processing power. With these limits removed, PS3 Wipeout should be even more pure than Pure, and my wish list bears this in mind:

- Keep it simple. Don`t change stuff or add stuff just because you can.
- AI like Foxy described, and as Troopa3k said in his 3rd paragraph. Bad AI is one Wipeout tradition that could justifiably be changed, though Pure`s is the best yet imo.
- More flight-like handling because big screen play with a real controller will allow it. Allow in-air control to increase or decrease flight time. In the recent F-Zero v Wipeout debate that was brewing on the boards it became obvious what makes us like Wipeout more than F-Zero, which might actually be a faster game than Wipeout much of the time…….. it’s the flying. Everyone expects Wipeout ships to fly and so they should. Its what separates the game from other racers. When this was forgotten the series nearly died.
- Walls like Pure`s are perfect for a “fiddly” handheld game. They are both slightly forgiving and punishing enough, which is a difficult balance to achieve. This would also be perfect for a large screen game, because while these walls don`t kill the game for rookies they do punish careless veterans. Add in a dash of 2097 scraping and we have perfection. A lot of what puts non-hardcore players off Wipeouts 1-3 is that they say it is “too hard,” though they appreciate the speed and feeling of it. It’s the harshness of the walls whenever they make a mistake which makes people say this. Pure`s walls almost completely solve this problem, while those who can avoid them are still rewarded.
- No more barrel roll or sideshift. These are fun for one installment of the series, but are unnecessary complications in the long run. It should be racing lines and piloting ability, not squeezing in special moves, that make a difference on PS3 Wipeout. Sometimes more is less, and I think this would definitely be the case if these moves were put into PS3 Wipeout. I wouldn`t mind barrel rolls just for showing off, that would be a laugh, but they shouldn`t enhance performance, imo, which means no turbo after rolling. Special button moves belong in beat `em ups and snowboarding games. :)
- Checkpoints to stop shortcutting.
- Full online play, properly tested and tweaked to foil cheaters and timewasters.


I think the success of Pure confirms that there is a public for Wipeout beyond us hardcore, anorak types, and that the wider public want and expect Wipeout to be true to its roots. It wasn`t just us here who hated Fusion and who knew it had got the game wrong. Sony should have the self-confidence to make Wipeout distinctive from other future racers, by going even closer to the original game experience which made Wipeout famous in the first place, while keeping the accessibility that Pure offers. Don`t make it hard to enjoy the game, but make it hard to win. Take this formula, then add to it Studio Liverpool`s talents and creativity in game and graphic design, let it all loose on a monster of a console with all the graphics and gameplay possibilities that allows, and we should have a feast. :)

[defor]

FX150... Wipeout White...

The return of the pilot as the soul of the machine, not the company and developments.
Any racer can be the next Arial Tetsuo, Natasha Belmondo, et al.
Global connectivity with rankings, match-building, and tournaments.

AI "practice", human "racing".

A game that ages over time. Realtime weather simulations. Racing through a wilderness; seeing that wilderness become a city; then a metropolis, as the game ages.
Nothing but the sound of the wind passing you, as you race through the wheatfields of Russia on unopened International expressways.

Expansive vistas of nature.
The swiftness of AG Craft parting the air like razors, only just rustling a thin coating of leaves on the raceway.

Individuality in the pilot is reflected in his machine as an extension of themselves. Ships developed to fit their pilot's strengths and weaknesses.

Above anything, simplicity, and a return to the purity of air, speed, agility, and skill.

[zargz]

rather poetic post, defor.. :)


Yes spare us the upgrades. I don`t want to spend my playing time in a garage. I would also go along with what Gunbound said above. . Halleluja to that and the rest o your post lunar! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/ok.gif

[yawnstretch]

defor:

Heh - nice 8)

[piranha wiper]

A game that ages over time. Realtime weather simulations. Racing through a wilderness; seeing that wilderness become a city; then a metropolis, as the game ages

very nice indeed, but do you think that they would actually go the length to develope a game that does that? but if they did i think it should be based on how many times u race there, so it'll atract more people then they make a new city.

[Mobius]

Additionally, the return of the Designers Republic would be nice...

You know they only designed the team logo's, boxart, weapon icons and the odd bilboard, don't you? And Studio Liverpool have done a top job at filling their shes after the dissapointment of good technology's attempt.

Cold Storage has to make a real comeback - at least 3 or four tracks by him (going slightly off subject, de he compose/sequence the music on lemmings...It is quality puzzle music and all the tracks on the game disk are called tim and then a number.)

Upgrading ships shouldn't be in it. Look at how many games have almost got tot he to of the charts using that sole concept but have no gameplay.

A more trivial want is the return of team specific coloured vapour trails. it was a nice touch in wip3out.

Trackwise, i would love to see if the ps3 could muster track inversions without losing the sence of floatyness and flight. Oh, and if the tracks are set in real world locations, set one here - i mean , there hasnt been one in the last games and it is made in the UK.

[piranha wiper]

or they could do a real life racing track like the monte carlo from the grand prix, that would be sweet

[judus]

A lot of stuff to read...and some good points too. I'd like to see something new and unexpected in the next game but one that shouldn't upset the game balance like fusion did. I do like the idea of a "realistic" physics to certain limits.
Most of all, i expect more of everything and a solid 60fps regardless of how many ships are onscreen and how many quakes are being fired.

[Troopa3k]

You know they only designed the team logo's, boxart, weapon icons and the odd bilboard, don't you? And Studio Liverpool have done a top job at filling their shes after the dissapointment of good technology's attempt.

I must confess, being here in the UK, and being a "poor student" :P I haven't managed to get my hands on a PSP yet (import or otherwise), though by the time the September launch finally comes around I should be in a "career" and ready to buy one. So, I haven't actually played Pure yet (I do own all the others though, and have played them all so many times).

So my DR comment is based on the transition from Wipeouts 1-3 to Wipeout Fusion, where Good Technology really did cock up the whole design of Wipeout. With that as my only source of DR-free Wipeout, I think my comment is understandable! :D

I'm glad to hear that Wipeout Pure sounds like a return to form - if it does feel like a Wipeout game, then that's all that matters. I guess my comment shouldn't be so much that we need the DR in the next game, but more that the game should return back to that design style. If Studio Liverpool have done then with Pure, then I stand corrected! :)

(And I thought that DR also did the whole menu/interface thing in the first three games as well as the logo's, boxart, etc? Or was it just coincidental that the menu in Fusion wasn't designed as well as in previous games?)

[Manic]

The game does have to become more individual, I agree. Sure, you want to cutomize everything like colour of the craft, pilot name and ****, performance, focus, everything. But then the upgrades still have to stay, only that once you earn them (if the game is centered around the competition of the companies) or buy them (if the game's focused on the amateur league) you can't put all of them on the same craft. What I would also like to see is completely different styles for each craft not just externally, but also internally. For example, if you choose an AG-Sys craft you can select a point of view where you see a part of the cockpit, and you'll get a completely different HUD than if you were racing e.g. a Quirex. A detail which I think would add to the feeling.

Also, the game's difficulty level has to be set higher. A better sensation of speed, larger tracks, new physical elements and difficulties to overcome like drag, turbulence, jets from other craft ahead, shrapnel from damaged craft, the craft beginning to draw to the left when you get damaged on the left side, better jumping physics (a two ton vehicle going off a jump at 650 mph and hitting the ground with a vertical descent speed of at least 30 m/s does NOT level out immediately and automatically. The ag-field has to support the craft's weight and momentum first, which means you have to pull up the nose and level the craft out, otherwise you'll slam the body into the track, slow down and take damage). Also, as many have mentioned, the AI must be made, smarter, faster and more competitive. I want to see enemies that ram, that terrorize you to get ahead and that come back for retribution. Oh, and I want to see bit more realism when you enter the depot. Especially if it's going to be in the amateur league, where you sure as hell can't afford nanobots and the likes.

In short, I want the game to roughen up. Keep the music, keep the style, keep the edge, but I like my games tough, realistic and a quite a bit dystopic.

Here...

"Isaac stood still, holding the silvered bullet on the thin chain around his neck, slowly stroking it with his fingers. In spite of himself he was nervous, for the first time in a long time. But then again, he had done this before, hadn't he? Perhaps not on a professional circuit, but it was still the same, wasn't it?

"No, it isn't", he thought. These weren't any pitiful gang members on jetbikes. These were professional racers, some of them rumoured for their brutality as much as for their skill. Now, he wasn't afraid of their brutality. Whatever they had done, he'd probably done worse several times over. But he was afraid of losing, and he was afraid of crashing at more than three times the speed he was usually at when on his bike.

He cast off his thoughts and swept back his white hair, tying it up in a ponytail as usual. The lights in the hanger had gone out, the only thing lighting up him and his craft now were the red warning lamps that indicated the drivers to ready themselves for racing. "Ready or not", he thought to himself and stepped up on the central pad. Plugging in his visor into the slot in his neck and into the craft's main console he climbed in the ship, sat down, took a deep breath before putting on his mask, then closed and latched the cockpit.

A loud, grinding rumble emitted from the huge bay doors as they slowly began to open, letting in the howling wind and whirling sand from the desert outside. As the pad which Isaac's craft stood upon began to move, slowly elevated by large hydraulic lifts, he activated the anti-gravity generator system. Slowly powering up it softly raised the craft, suspending it just above the pad. Through his seat he could feel its three cores humming slightly just beneath him. He would have heard it as well, were it not for the hangar doors.

As Isaac's ship slowly arose in the Nevada desert the twilight sun cast its light across it, making it look almost crimson, despite its actually silvery and black coloration. All around him on the field other ships were brought up, one by one, emerging from their underground pits. "Like desert insects at night", Isaac thought. Then he looked up. All around him bombed-out buildings reached for the sky. From the tall corporate superscrapers to the small residential buildings, all of them were collapsed, windowless and often a large chunk of the buildings had been blasted out. Rugged, cracked and beaten by dust and wind they looked like the skeletal remains of some long-dead creature, half buried beneath the dunes. Right in front of him, down and above the track, Isaac could see an old superhighway suspended some sixty feet above the ground, rising in a slightly banked turn away in the direction of some gargantuan pylon bridges. Running far across the nearby ocean into the distance southwest, these bridges had once led out to the Channel Islands. Directly to the east the white peaks of the San Gabriel mouintains blended with the thin clouds, as red as the rest of the landscape. Beside the track only tv-vans, the pits and a few holoboards were positioned. No howling crowds, no blaring speakers. Just the desert, the ruins and the howling wind.

To Isaac Crowley, the deserted city of Los Angeles in the dusk was the most beautiful thing he had ever seen.

With little time to admire the view Isaac's attention returned to the cockpit. He went through the checklist, switching systems on and off, making sure his targeter got a lock, testing flaps, airbrakes and thrust vectoring and checking the stabilizers. Just as the elevator pad loudly locked into position he put on a pair of earphones, old style ones, and connected them to a portable music player. Toggling a number of metal switches he turned on the main systems and engaged the starter engines. In his ears some old 21st century band began playing their aged song. Hearing the starter announce "Start your engines!", he hit the ignition button, and like a pair of enormous monsters the twin oversized engines on each side of him growled into action, roaring louder and louder as he revved them.

The doubt which had filled Isaac was now gone, replaced by the same adrenal excitement and sure confidence that filled him whenever he could feel the power of an engine beneath him. He was one with this ship, and it with him. Together they would outrace anyone, no matter their merites or trophies. Grabbing the twin steering columns he hummed along with the music.

"Black hole sun, won't you come, and wash away the rain..." he sang quietly. The announcer slowly counted down to the start. Isaac's heart was beating in tune with the music.

In the year 2212 the first FX1000 AG-racing league was about to begin."

Please bear with the length of this post.

[piranha wiper]

In the year 2212 the first FX1000 AG-racing league was about to begin errrrm shouldnt it be F-1000? whats with the "X"?

[Sausehuhn]

er... why?
all the "F"-leagues were before Pure. Pure starts with the "FX"-leagues, so why no FX-1000 league?
But I would say 1000 is al little bit too much, something in the hundrets would be better, because it's a big jumpt from FX300 to FX1000.

[piranha wiper]

oh right sorry, i havent played pure so i didnt know :oops:

[Sausehuhn]

@ piranha wiper
hey, no problem :)

@ Manic
I like the things you said about a new WipEout. I would like to tune the craft one more time, but this time by my self, I don't like the 1-different-craft-for-every-speedclass-thing. I would like to have a standard craft and tune it, not too much, just a little bit. I would not like the feature to tune the craft alot so you cannot see what ship it really was. Just things like changing the paintjob (maybe with a special programm for your computer: create a skin, load it to the memory card and then integrate it into the game - if I'm right Sony already confirmed that things can be transfered from computers to PlayStation3s 8O ) and adding different sponsors and changing the color of the engine trail.
Maybe a story mode would be great as well, but I'm sure the most WipEout fans wouldn't like that so much.
The AI is a problem itself. I agree that it should be more challenging, but I'm not sure if a real aggressiv AI with using more weapons etc. would be the right thing. Look at Fusion, you know what happend.

At last I want to give you a compliment for your little story. I did not understand all details (my english is not that good), but I think I recognize the most of them. I like the situation and the way you describe the surrounding and the feelings of the young pilot. I like the moments in the hangar under the track.
Man, I want a race-intro with a view of a hangar as well. I love the one you can see in the game-intro of Fusion!

Keep on writing!! :)

[Manic]

I'm actually working on ship, pilot, story and so forth for this company which I'd like to see in the next WipeOut. It's called PraeTech Designs, was formed from this military equipment / heavy industry company which absorbed a number of european companies (heavy investors in the russian industry) gone bankrupt after the 2140s. They are especially good in engine and weapon technology, which is reflected in their craft, and lead a rather ruthless policy which only emphasizes efficiency. They like organization, simplicity (less is more) and take a pretty aggressive approach to stuff.

Their craft is middleweight, looks a bit like the AG-Sys craft only longer and heavier, with twin engines, has absurdly quick acceleration and a monstrously powerful weapon control system as well as very good handling (excellent cornering, above average stability), but is very difficult to control and has low shielding.

Their lead pilot is the australian Isaac Crowley, a former gang member and street racer with lots of skill and an agressive, hard racing style. Their secondary pilot is Alexis Khumala, the daughter of Omarr Khumala, who's taken up racing after her father.

I'll get back to you with sketches of the craft, company logo, pilot and the company story.

Oh, and Sausehuhn, though I don't understand your name... thanks! :)

[eLhabib]

Their secondary pilot is Alexis Khumala, the daughter of Omarr Khumala, who's taken up racing after her father.

his daughter!? more likely his grand-grand.....-granddaughter! Don't forget there's time passing between fusion and 2212!

[Manic]

Ya. you're right... after all it's more than fifty years. But perhaps people live longer (not likely).

Anyway, just finished the rough designing to the craft and scanned in a few pics. Problem is I don't have anywhere to display them. I'll be so annoying to ask a moderator to do it for me. Hopefully they'll be in shortly.

[Space Cowboy]

Cool cant wait to see them! :)

If you dont mind I might do a render of them in MAX just to see what it might look like, with your express permission of course :)

[Manic]

No problem. In fact I'd be delighted if you did, since a suxxor on computer modelling is I. Now, let's get these friggin' pics away....

Throwing her helmet into a nearby wall with a loud crash, Alexis stomped her way through the hangar, away from the smouldering wreckage which was all that was left of her model 3 Falchion racer. She was in a bad mood, and rightly so. A top-of-the-line AG-racecraft should not fail its driver so miserably. She was going to set things right, once and for all.

"Enough of this ****!" she roared. "Leyland! Where is he?! Leyland, get your ass over here right now!" Having stood bent over his datapad, analyzing the telemetry from the recent crash, Chief technician Marcus Leyland emerged from the shadows in the back of the engineering bay and faced the towering african in the same bored, half-sleeping manner as he always did.

"Your ship just cost me the race! I was just about to overtake that pesky Avery when i span out of control, all because your new settings messed up the stability!" She was practically spitting in his face. However despite his shorter stature and Alexis' boiling fury the little grey-haired man didn't even flinch.

"Everything comes at a price." Leyland's voice was slightly nasal, a stark contrast to Alexis' full, clear tone. "I know very well how much you like power, miss Khumala, and I therefore thought it appropriate to increase the engines' thrust by angling up the turbines and upping the compression a bit, but not nearly enough to send you out of control. I beleive you can blame that on the nitro boost you used while banking thirty-seven degrees to the left with the left nozzle on full pitch." He said with a slight sneer. "You're the one being careless, dear, not I."

"Don't you give me your sass! That ship's supposed to be driven to the edge, it just begs for it!" Alexis wasn't going to take corrections from this pitiful little man. She didn't need or have to.

"You can't have both stability and maneuverability with that frame, miss." The technician droned on. "If you're going to throw your weight around I suggest you mount a pair of roll-inhibitors. It'll slow you down, but at least you won't be a smudge on the wall nex..." He didn't have time to finish the sentence as the powerful woman grabbed him by his neck with his fist and nearly lifted him off the ground.

"Shut up! You're going to fix that ship and if I crash one more time..." Alexis raised her free fist to throw Leyland a straight right, but suddenly let go out of surprise as a large, scarred hand seized hers right when she was about to strike. She hadn't heard so much as a breath from Isaac as he snuck up on her. He spoke calmly, yet with a hardness in his deep, coarse voice.

"Seems the only thing that's harder for you to control than your ship is your temper, Alexis."

The PraeTech model III Falchion AG-racer: stats.

Handling: 8 / 10 (great turning rate and downforce but weighs a lot more than e.g. Feisar or AG-Sys ships)
Thrust: 10 / 10 (blows your head off)
Top Speed: 6 / 10 (nothing but average)
Shields: 4 / 10 (weak, especially for a ship manufactured by a company that among other things makes weapons)
Weapon Power: 10 / 10 (once again, blows your head off)

[Lance]

.
''with a hardness in his deep, course voice.''
you mean coarse, of course. you should polish these fics and send them to infoxicated for inclusion in the fanfic section of the site
.

[feiyen]

Ehy!
Where's my post?!
I spent 1 hour to make it, yesterday night it was here, and now it isn't!

[infoxicated]

You have been moderated by Lance - as yet I do not know the content of your post, but as I understand it what you posted amounted to flaming. If you have any further issues with this, contact me via PM.

[Lance]

.
when you stop insulting other people, in this case, the game designers, then i will stop deleting or editing your posts. your stated opinions are made in such a way as to be flames, which is a clear violation of WipeoutZone guidelines. this is the third time you have done this. actually you deserve to have your account deleted, not just your post. as long as i am a moderator, i will not allow any such violation of the guidelines to stand. this type of violation has been discussed with you long and intensely twice before. this time i did not discuss it with you again since clearly you have decided not to abide by the guidelines. further discussion was unlikely to produce better behaviour on your part; it had already failed to do so twice. so i deleted your post.

___ Lance
.

[feiyen]

8O !!!

i said that the only ship good in Pure is harimau and qirex -> IMHO.

I can't say something in MY HUMBLE OPINION, now?
And then [in the end of the LONG post, that now i LOST! i've spent 1 hour to make it!] i said that the general design of Pure [menus etc] was great!

The post was smiley and normal, if you have a backup you can see that.

But if in this forum, just because the designers are here, we must say that all is perfect, i understand the "deactivation" :roll:

I say IMHO 1 thing wasn't good.
Is this a good reason for a ban?


bye

feiyen * saving the post, in case someone delete it *

[Space Cowboy]

I do believe that we must be able to voice our opinions on aspects of the game that we dont feel have been implemented correctly or satisfactoraly.
It is necessary to voice, and hear said opinions for the benefit of the developers and the customers.
Afterall we have to let them know when they mess up, right?
Too many forums nowdays are opposed to the idea that the developers of a game can be capable of poor design.
As long as your post was free of abuse or insult, I see no reason why it should be deleted.
:)

[piranha wiper]

if you have been here for a long time like i have and seen (and in some cases done) some things which break the rules if this forum the mods will be there chasing you about it, dont take it to heart, i have great interest in this thread as most people are talking about wo-pure now and i dont it spoling yet until ive played it, so i want to enjoy the topics that arnt pure related, so forget about it and keep these most interesting ideas for ps3 wo coming :D

[feiyen]

i can say that IMHO my ideas was good and interesting, so if Lance deleted my post, you will lose a good part of the thread.
And then, if i spent 1 hour of my time to write those post, and then it get deleted for a not-good reason [for me], i think i can say that it's not right!

[Space Cowboy]

Am I the only one that wants the pit lanes back? :D

[piranha wiper]

no i want pit lanes back too, adds a bit of reallism, think about it, if you fire at missile at something it might break so you hve to go and repair it, bring back pit lanes!

ps, i tke it they werent in pure then?

[yawnstretch]

Pitlanes thankfully weren't in pure. If they have slow-down pitlanes in wipeout ps3 I will be disgusted.

BUT

...as usual all that matters to me is the bounciness and speed - I dont care what they say about Quality Assurance. Implenting false-feeling physics controls to stop people going through walls because the game engine cant detect a collision 200feet above the level at 700mph is a mistake - accidentally hurtling out of the game doesnt bother me as much as artificial dampners on the ship's movement. I'm in the game for the realistic bounce and speed of an Anti gravity ship - not static car racing 5 feet above track.

Wipeout 1 was great for that, 'oh my God here we go!' swooping off of cliffs at extreme pace feeling without adding any external controls on the realistic acceleration and movement of the ships (except for the wusswagons). Sure it had glitches but they weren't that bad. Just dont compromise on the rush and bounce and Ill be happy.

I know that Q & Q scream at this kind of thing but hopefully compromises can be reached? If games have to adhere too strictly to rules then fun may go out the window too. I remember spending hours in quake 3 arena using lightning guns to propel jumping friends to insane heights - immersion of environment is of course important, but I think that fun and life-like physics are just a little bit more important. :coffee


Final Note: Perhaps the solution for big jumps and being flung off the course because of hurtling realistic physics is open track design. If you look at Altima, Sol 2 and the large jump bits in florian heights there may be a way to have your cake and eat it. Open spacious (but beautiful) environments would cut down on building collisions and other clipping issues - if someone swoops up a jump they have to try and steer back in time to the track or risk crashing out / teleportation / wusswagon / whatever. Maybe Im wrong but I never find myself clipping through buildings very often in wipeout 1 in spite of it's big jumps and life-like physics.

PurE has made great progress in keeping the original feel and adding ridiculous level detail. I hope we see more tracks with gradual build to high-drop jumps though - they're the most fun.

[yawnstretch]

Speaking of fun

I present the flying dog!

http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=flyingdog :D

[zargz]

Am I the only one that wants the pit lanes back? :D I want them back too but as yawn says not the slow down pitlanes in fusion
but more like the open ones in wo64 ~ same as in wo3 but much more accesible - wider entrance and exit to them.
^^ for those who never played wo64! 8)
If taken back it's important not to make them too long as in Terminal, Sampa Run or Gare d'Europea
but shorter more like the length of Mega Mall, Hi-Fumi (some of the shortest) or Porto Kora and Manor Top (medum length).
That way the pilots will have to do themselves the strategic decision to slow down or not :D
And no hyperthrust thank you very much! Way less problems with shortcutting!

[feiyen]

I lost my previous post, so i re-wrote all the points [i don't remember something :roll: i hope to remmeber it soon...] trying to do the best efforts on make it not-arrogant:



general design - in pure it's very good, just follow this way. More care about back-cover and manuals.

craft design - [trying not to be offensive -_-]: more cut-edged, sharp, dynamic, balanced, not rounded or smooth like Pure's ships. The way it's in Pure Qirex, and in w'o'' and w'o''2097 crafts.

return of the pilots, famous ones [Arial & Arian Tetsuo, Kel Solaar and so on] and new one. Not 3d models like in Fusion, but 2d illustration made by some talented guy like Bengal (http://www.cafesale.net/bengal/index.php3)
it will be good if these pilots will have specific driving style, so for example a pilot good with handling will influence the ship handling with +1 in the stats [just for example], this will create much more variables in the gameplay.

personal playlist that i can play from ipod, psp or PS3 HD

favourite song for each track, so if i like to play in Sol2 with Onyx it will be easy to automate.

no more barrel rolls, return of the sideshift but more effective

an enclyclopedia section to see pilots and teams hystory, profiles, to analyze the tracks plan, to "sail" like tourist the tracks and get info about the important buildings and places.

an online world system with championship, leagues, a central official forum and website with all the good content

a gallery of hi-res artworks to view on PS3 and copy on the PC

skin editor: they can make an editor with some artworks, logos, images [coordinate image, industrial designs, ecc] and a set of colors for each team. So we can edit our skin using this things, make the craft personal but not too far away from the original team design.

craft editor: i dunno if this is possible, but i explain it anyway: for each team, put in this editor different pieces of craft that we can combine. For example, on a ship like w'o'2097 Feisar, we can change the flap with longer ones, "|/" ones and "\|" ones :D [it's a "drawing" of the flaps profile"]

try to combine absorbed energy from items with wider and shorter pit lanes

a training section with 2 modes: 1) of teaching basics and advanced moves, that repeat specific pieces of tracks like 180° turns 'till we do it well. 2) a mode that "analyse" our driving style and teach us on which part we have to improve.

remake of hystoric tracks in PS3 power graphics

tracks with more peculiar zones and wider zones

AI: every one of us has a personal driving style. i don't mind if i start 8 and i have to get the first position, but it will be good if AI drive like a human can do: someone more aggressive, others more soft in the turn, etc...

No more weapons like "disruption bolt" that changes or invert the pad directions


I hope someone in Studio Liverpool will read this and make some on my dreams come true :)

[zargz]

One thing I'm not too enthusiastic about is the return of the pilots ..
Ok, they were cool and all in wo" but thing is I personally like to race as me if you know what i mean.
In Coiln McRae3 I was not that happy to drive as Colin but in the previous CM2 it was a blast to race as me and kick some McRae butt! 8)
Perhaps a system with pilots but also where you can race as yourself would satisfy the wish of most people?

[Sausehuhn]

craft design - [trying not to be offensive -_-]: more cut-edged, sharp, dynamic, balanced, not rounded or smooth like Pure's ships. The way it's in Pure Qirex, and in w'o'' and w'o''2097 crafts.

I don't know if I can agree with that point. Sure, ships like the 1st and 2nd Xios in Fusion aren't really cool. But I like the most ships in Pure and also the the most of the 3rd ones in Fusion. Everyone has it's own taste, so I do not really know how to solve that problem



return of the pilots, famous ones [Arial & Arian Tetsuo, Kel Solaar and so on] and new one. Not 3d models like in Fusion, but 2d illustration made by some talented guy like Bengal (http://www.cafesale.net/bengal/index.php3)
it will be good if these pilots will have specific driving style, so for example a pilot good with handling will influence the ship handling with +1 in the stats [just for example], this will create much more variables in the gameplay.´

hm... I like the idea of having pilots, but I would like to have a new WipEout that's in the future, so pilots from previous WipEouts aren't really realistic. 2D pilots are ok, even if I like 3D more, especially when I see these real looking faces the PS3 can do.
In Fusion there's already this thing with "another pilot - another handling" and I'm not really a fan of this. Especially when you play multiplayer and one player has to choose the bad one of the pilots.



personal playlist that i can play from ipod, psp or PS3 HD
favourite song for each track, so if i like to play in Sol2 with Onyx it will be easy to automate.

yep :D



an enclyclopedia section to see pilots and teams hystory, profiles, to analyze the tracks plan, to "sail" like tourist the tracks and get info about the important buildings and places.
I totally agree. WipEout ever had a good style, so why don't show it? I like to read informations about the tracks, the history, why it's build like this and how it starts.
I also would like a "exploration mode". Not for driving, just for looking. You would have a camera that can be flown over the track, 3D. With zoom and so on. Like the cam you have in FIFA, when you see a goal again. You can move the camera like you want. I hope you understand what I mean.



skin editor: they can make an editor with some artworks, logos, images [coordinate image, industrial designs, ecc] and a set of colors for each team. So we can edit our skin using this things, make the craft personal but not too far away from the original team design.

craft editor: i dunno if this is possible, but i explain it anyway: for each team, put in this editor different pieces of craft that we can combine. For example, on a ship like w'o'2097 Feisar, we can change the flap with longer ones, "|/" ones and "\|" ones :D [it's a "drawing" of the flaps profile"]

yes. But don't change the real style too much with that.



try to combine absorbed energy from items with wider and shorter pit lanes

can't say anything about that, haven't played Pure yet, so I don't know how the absorb-weapon-thing works. But I'm sure with this feature you won't get any "eliminations parties", so maybe it makes the game not weapon based.



a training section with 2 modes: 1) of teaching basics and advanced moves, that repeat specific pieces of tracks like 180° turns 'till we do it well. 2) a mode that "analyse" our driving style and teach us on which part we have to improve.

hey, why not. Maybe a good feature.



remake of hystoric tracks in PS3 power graphics
tracks with more peculiar zones and wider zones

I want that. I like the old WipEout tracks, and I want some of them in a new WipEout as well. I also like wider zones at tracks, like these wider parts in Fusion (like on Florion Height or Vohl Square), I would love to see them again.
___

I didn't answer everything. I think a gallery and online mode has to be standard. And I hope we will see that in the new WipEout.

[Scaraba]

keep the wipeoutPure physics.. i hated teh fusion ones =/

[Lance]

.
feiyen: criticism is fine; but defamation and insult are not. what you do is insulting. that would be true no matter whether there were Pure design team personnel in the Wipeoutzone or not. please do not distort the facts in the retelling and pretend to be innocent and reasonable. i wish now that i had retained your original post as evidence. in your original post, you used ''imho'' for one thing, but before that you spoke of returning the Wipeout ships to, and i quote exactly,: ''GOOD design''. yet another sarcastically emphasised remark from you. i have discussed exactly this insulting habit of yours twice before. i thought it was settled and that we had come to an understanding, but now i find you doing it again. since you choose to talk of this at length publically, i see no need to respond privately to this. at first i began editing two offensive parts of your post rather than deleting it, but in the end, i decided to quit wasting my time and make you waste your own. because of your own self-centred immaturity you are unable to see your own error. if you continue posting in this arrogant immature self-satisfied prickish manner, either you will be gone from these forums or i will. i will not stand by and watch an uncivilised person such as yourself degrade these forums. do i make myself absolutely ****ing goddamned totally clear?

[Lance]

.
yawnstretch said: ''...as usual all that matters to me is the bounciness and speed - I dont care what they say about Quality Assurance. Implenting false-feeling physics controls to stop people going through walls because the game engine cant detect a collision 200feet above the level at 700mph is a mistake - accidentally hurtling out of the game doesnt bother me as much as artificial dampners on the ship's movement. I'm in the game for the realistic bounce and speed of an Anti gravity ship - not static car racing 5 feet above track.''

i agree that the floatiness and realistic feel of the earlier ship movement engine is more important to me than the occasional occurrence of a flaw in collision detection or the occasional view of imperfect or non-existent scenery. this is of course a matter of personal aesthetic and psychological preference, not a question of absolute wrong or right, or absolute good or bad. but i sure would like the floatiness back. :)

-- --------

Space Cowboy: i had what i think are perfectly valid reasons; i do not quash criticism. i have indeed myself frequently criticised aspects of Wipeout game design, but what i do not do is to insult the designer's by claiming that they are incompetent without regard to the limitations imposed on them by hardware and management, nor say that they ought to be fired because they do a ''bad'' job. feiyen, however, says exactly those things. he was at it again with this stuff claiming that he wanted a return to good design, sarcastically overemphasised by caps and bold to make his point, and implying that his judgement of what is good is an absolute truth. to thus believe is arrogant. to make the statements he does about design and designers again and again is insulting. flaming. this is why i first edited, then deleted his post. he has learned nothing from previous discussions of this
.

[Lion]

craft design - [trying not to be offensive -_-]: more cut-edged, sharp, dynamic, balanced, not rounded or smooth like Pure's ships. The way it's in Pure Qirex, and in w'o'' and w'o''2097 crafts.as long as they each have a character and don't look like a potato I'm happy :)

I have to agree with Sausehuhn about the pilots. I like to play any game as me, regardless of genre. I don't want to be told I am someone else, if pilots were brought back, creating a pilot of your own would have to be the way... given the choice of a bonus point in one area and a penalty an another or just being an all rounder where the ship defines your stats


personal playlist that i can play from ipod, psp or PS3 HDthis should be compulsory in all games in the next generation of consoles


no more barrel rolls, return of the sideshift but more effective[/b]I like the barrel rolls personally... they add an element of strategy with their use of shield, but I prefer them to hyperthrust. and as for sideshift? I'd like that to be implimented on the other trigger on each side... potentially combined airbraking and sideshift on a nasty corner, but at a speed penalty. would be particularly good on any bend with a reverse camber


a gallery of hi-res artworks to view on PS3 and copy on the PCdefinitely :) I wish pure had the ability to copy unlocked concept art out to the memory stick for retrieval :\


skin editor: they can make an editor with some artworks, logos, images [coordinate image, industrial designs, ecc] and a set of colors for each team. So we can edit our skin using this things, make the craft personal but not too far away from the original team design.it would be incredibly hard to moderate this properly in software to avoid abuse. you just KNOW some 13 year old would draw a great big penis down the side of his ship (can I write that? please just edit this bit if not)
also I don't think this would really fit in a professional league. maybe in an amateur league like fx150 where the pilots own the craft. it's not like F1 drivers get to choose their paintjobs


craft editor: i dunno if this is possible, but i explain it anyway: for each team, put in this editor different pieces of craft that we can combine. For example, on a ship like w'o'2097 Feisar, we can change the flap with longer ones, "|/" ones and "\|" ones :D [it's a "drawing" of the flaps profile"]this could be kinda cool... it would probably be safe to do if it was just aesthetic, but if it was possible to alter ship stats slightly through this function it might be hard to properly maintain balance. though it would make sense if you look at it relative to formula1 where they have different spoilers/tyres for different tracks/conditions


try to combine absorbed energy from items with wider and shorter pit lanesmaybe different leagues have different rules in this regard? say if the game had F leagues where there are pit lanes (F10000?) and FX leagues without pit lanes (FX500?)


a training section with 2 modes: 1) of teaching basics and advanced moves, that repeat specific pieces of tracks like 180° turns 'till we do it well. 2) a mode that "analyse" our driving style and teach us on which part we have to improve.as long as it's not compulsory like earning a racing license in gran turismo


AI: every one of us has a personal driving style. i don't mind if i start 8 and i have to get the first position, but it will be good if AI drive like a human can do: someone more aggressive, others more soft in the turn, etc...and ai get the benefits/penalties of the different ships!!!


No more weapons like "disruption bolt" that changes or invert the pad directionsthat's only one of it's effects, but I wouldn't object too much if it was restricted to multiplayer only like the revcon was back in the day

anything I haven't commented on I pretty much agree with

[piranha wiper]

what about endurance races, with quite technical tracks more over that the standard phantom, venom etc class's, so its more of a challange and then theres a special prize for winning like the old £classic" crafts from the good old days

[Space Cowboy]

Lance: No worries mate, I didnt see his first post. I just thought he had some valid points.
In all fairness, this is one of the most balanced and fairly moderated forums I've ever known :)
I have noticed that even you and Fox are not afraid to voice your opinions on said matters, and fair play to you, thats democracy in play :)

[feiyen]

feiyen: criticism is fine; but defamation and insult are not.


i've not insulted! And i didn't say infamation!
I just say that i want a GOOD craft design, because IMHO [yes, i said it once... must i say it 20 times a post?] the Pure's one isn't good.


i wish now that i had retained your original post as evidence

i wish that too!
i spent 1 hour to wrote it, and you totally ignored the CONTENTS of my post, you stopped at the first word that can be viewed like an insult [just because i said "i want a good design", LOL] and you deleted all my contents!


if you continue posting in this arrogant immature self-satisfied prickish manner, either you will be gone from these forums or i will. i will not stand by and watch an uncivilised person such as yourself degrade these forums. do i make myself absolutely ****ing goddamned totally clear?

who's insulting and defamating here?
Me, that i said "GOOD design", or you, judging my person without know me, just for a unuseful thing like that!

I dunno what it means in english "i want a GOOD design", in italian it means "i'd like to see a good design that i prefer!"

And if you don't want to degrade these forums, don't delete the contents of the post and make a backup of the posts you delete!
This is the minimum of respect for a poster that spends hours to make a post for your forum! I'm not here for my ego or similar things, i'm here to discuss of wipeout and say my ideas about it, and if you delete it for a such minor reason, i cannot see your respect!

Also now, you totally passed away all the content of my post, that is normal and moderated, just for this thing.


@ lion: mmmhh... viewpoints, i think. I'd love chara design and pilots because of the atmosphere, the ambient, the feel... it would be fine! :)

skin editor: maybe i didn't wrote it well, sorry. Emh... i mean, Studio Liverpool gives for every team a set of decals [logo, graphics and so on] and a set of colors [not to paint, but just to choose on preset bars], so we can personalize the ships... how can a teenager make a penis in this way? :D

I M H O :roll:

[eLhabib]

since the next w'o'' HAS TO BE online, the use of pilots isn't really an option I think. I don't wanna be in an online race against 7 clones of the same pilot, just because he turned out to be the best!

Somebody said, make short pitlanes, so that you have to slow down BY YOURSELF if you need more energy. WHAT A F*KING GREAT IDEA! man, why haven't I thought of that! Developers, please, read this, this is the perfect solution! Make the pitlanes without slowdown, but really short, so you can go through at highspeed, but you will only recover a small amount of energy. If you want more - you gotta slow down for it! Great idea!

[Lance]

.
feiyen said:
''i spent 1 hour to wrote it, and you totally ignored the CONTENTS of my post, you stopped at the first word that can be viewed like an insult [just because i said "i want a good design", LOL] and you deleted all my contents!''

i read every word of your post before i did anything. i read every word of everyone's posts. you are making a statement about my actions without actually knowing what they were.

''[just because i said "i want a good design", LOL]''
that is nOt what you said, so your statement here is either due to an amazingly poor memory for recent events or is simply a lie.

remember in an earlier sequence of your posts when you said that the Wipeout Pure ship designers were bad designers and should be replaced with people who could do a GOOD design [meaning one that you like]? that was a self-centred, arrogant, ignorant remark that demeaned other people and took no account of the circumstances in which they must perform.
this is not a matter of the nuances of translation, it is just you being a jerk. it is a habit with you. many of our members do not have English as their native language, yet when they post in English, it is only you who make these arrogant and shortsighted remarks.

it is for flaming that i edited or deleted your remarks. as for deleting the entire post, do you expect me to edit only the inaccurate or insulting or otherwise in error portions so that i compensate for your deficiencies of character and judgement in order to make you look better than you are? it is far better to get people to post well in the first place or to use deletion as a tool to get them to post well so that their posts won't be deleted. you show a continued inability to even recognise your errors, much less correct them. i have other things in my life that i need to spend time on rather than repeatedly have to spend it dealing with habitual offenders. nor should the other moderators have to do it, either. for this reason i am temporarily deactivating your membership for one month. if in order to get around this suspension you start a new membership that i can recognise as yours, i will delete it. if you establish a new membership in which i can not recognise new posts as yours, as characteristic of what you have done in the past, then i will still have accomplished the goal of eliminating bad posting. goodbye to the feiyen username till June 29, 2005
.

edit: hmmm.. when i went just now to deactivate, it was already deactivated. one of the other moderators got there first. i should perhaps get up earlier on Sundays.

[Mobius]

See the livery post - foxy got there first 8)

[Lance]

.
yep. so i discovered.
.

[Manic]

Arr! I have me a steering wheel up me crotch and it's drivin' me nuts!

Still haven't got my pics here, but hopefully it won't be long. I've sent them to Infoxicated and can only hope he adds them to this post on my humble request.

My opinion on pit stops is that they should be like in any other racing game. Just like the tracks in Wipeout have to get longer and larger and the crafts faster pit stops have to get longer as well. It should be rewarding to be able to evade damage.

[eLhabib]

well I would definitely not like a pit lane where you have to come to a full stop. that would destroy the flow of the race IMO. also, given the size of a w'o'' craft, the crew would have to use assembly robots to replace damaged parts like wings or whatever. So the whole process would be taking minutes rather than seconds. And seconds would be too long already given the speed of w'o''.

[zargz]

I think the length of Porto Koras pitlane is perfect! 8)

Manic, did you get my PM?
Check on the top right of the page beside the Profile link. :)

[Manic]

Yeah, I got it.

But you see, the stuff is that I don't want to see nice bright fx. I want to race because of the feeling, not the pretty lights. One of my favourite games ever played on the Xbox when I had it was that "Steel Battallion" game. Big, rumbling mechs walking around, lots of buttons and stuff you had to keep check of, nice filters, big guns and so on. The game wasn't fast at all, but I still liked it because of the mechanical, unwieldy, utilitaristic feeling. And the fact that the sound effects and the graphics enhanced by a 1200W Dolby 5.1 system and a big friggin' screen and projector were just spectacular.

See, I want that mechanical feeling. I love tanks, guns, cars, anything that is high-powered and efficient. Even more, I love to combine that with high speeds. Finally, I love clean and efficient stuff and industrial design (I'm a bit into it myself). All this combines to make me f***ing adore Wipeout. But I'm not into pretty neon lights and ****. I want stuff to burn, ooze, roar, scream, grind and crash. And I want stuff to be hard and on top of that still be realistic. So a pit lane where you just fly through and the ship magically repairs itself is just not my style.

[zargz]

Agreed about the game needs to be realistic.
I see the pitlane exclusively as a shield recharger 8) as it is in wo3/se
An idea would be to make damage less extensive(visually) than in fusion, meaning no need to lose a wing or so
but more like getting buckles on the body and if the damage is too big
when i e 5% left of shield there could be some smoke and flames, not too big though
Then you might have to completely stop(special area fo the pitlane) and the small robots from wo" intro storm out and very fast like in 2 sec ,
which i assure you will feel like an eterninty to me ;) , fix the hull extinguishing eventual fire.
8)

[yawnstretch]

:idea: Umm... I like Neon FX 8O

*cradles WipEout PurE*

[zargz]

:lol: LOL Neon FX is cool!

[yawnstretch]

W000OT!

Phantom Pilot!

*polishes badge* 8)

[Axel]

I would definately like to see the return of pit lanes. I think the absorbing weapons thing is ok in pure, but not very WO in my mind. They both have their pluses and negatives, but the thrill off trying to make it to the pitlane before you get blown up is exilirating, especially when you just make it :)

[Rapier Racer]

Yes it is but what about when you don't make it, I haven't played Pure yet so don't really know what the absorbing will be like, I liked the 2097 idea of the pit lane and that energy pick up when you were almost screwed, as for burning ships and bit flying off them no thanks I rather not see that, it’s not very clean looking like the rest of the game

[Sausehuhn]

take the speed and weapon pads of Fusion for a new WipEout, they are by far the best. I don't like the ones in Wip3out and Pure. :D

[Lance]

.
i don't like to see damage; as long as the shield is still functioning, there wouldn't be any. that's what it's for. there would be no loss of function in the ship's other systems, no damage to them, so there would be no slow-downs, no control problems, and no visible damage until 100 percent failure of the shield. Wipeout is an all or nothing game, one of the big reasons i like it so much. second place gains you nothing in the progress of the game. nothing less than a perfect ship and a great performance will give you a new record against all those other Wipeout players
.

edit: unintentional typos removed. i hope

[Rapier Racer]

aha! That’s what I was thinking while playing Fusion, it's a force field of energy around my ship so why have I just lost half the rear end, maybe on the next Wipeout when weapons hit the sheild will sort of light up, that would be cool I think

[piranha wiper]

yeah but think about it if some one fired a missile at you, you will have some visible damage right?? so whats so wrong with seeing it, because i think ive missed your point lance & devolopments

[Lance]

.
no. there would be no visible damage since the shield protects from damage. the shield itself would not fail until it's power was exhausted. the shield generator would be undamaged as long as it's operating because it is a part of the ship and the whole ship is shielded.
.

[Manic]

Seriously, you're being veeery conservative about this... I mostly play WipeOut for the feeling of it, not the design. If you can improve the game, increase the feeling and bring it to a completely new level, then it's not by keeping details that make the game even more static and unrealistic.

Sure, a kind of electrostatic shield could keep most energy discharges and small projectiles out, but it couldn't keep everything from coming through.

And the whole point of the ship being damaged is not for visual effects, but so that the handling gets worse. I think the developers got it all right in Fusion on that detail. The better you race, the less you take damage, the more probable you are to win.

[Lion]

why not think of shields from another perspective? have them as armour, where plates can be knocked off, and extra damage is dealt to your ship if the same location is hit too much
maybe have absorbing weapons as a way of providing raw materials to nanobots so you can visibly see your ship being repaired by them... maybe with a visual effect similar to the thrust vectoring nozzels folding in in the pure intro video?
or on a track with pit lanes have some incredibly fast robots fly out and haphazardly weld bits onto your ship?
I like the idea of visible damage and flight affected (though not too much) by said damage

hey if you wanted to explain it away you could have it done to make it more of a drivers race than a shield generators race... like the removal of active suspension from formula 1

I'm trying to think how you'd still use an energy bar in that scenario...
maybe have a general ship health diagram and behaviour more like in a rally game where if any one part is too damaged you are gone.. and have energy as something that's built up over time (faster at higher speeds) that can be consumed to perform one of a number of things? increase the strength of a weapon blast? use as an anytime (offhand) speed boost? maybe it'd be needed to perform a barrel roll manouvre?

just a few ideas from outside the box :)

[piranha wiper]

lace;
i understand your point now,

Manic;
most of us like the feel of racing from either 1 of the frist 3 wipeouts, just slight improvement on the floatines and it will be perfectos, now people are after other things that they either want back or things taken away or brand new things putting into this ps3wo

[Rapier Racer]

Seriously, you're being veeery conservative about this... I mostly play WipeOut for the feeling of it, not the design. If you can improve the game, increase the feeling and bring it to a completely new level, then it's not by keeping details that make the game even more static and unrealistic.

I don't believe the changes in Fusion made Wipeout anymore realistic; I’d rather see no damage than my ship being instantly and magically repaired as you go through the pit lane, anyway how can we seriously be demanding realism here folks as long as the game has weapons its never going to feel real, thankfully

[Manic]

But that's why I said there shouldn't be pitlanes like that! Shiat!

[Space Cowboy]

Ship damage is a bad idea, I never liked it in fusion. Our Wipeout should be left alone, too many bells and nobs and it will be fusion all over again :(

[Kansas]

why not think of shields from another perspective? have them as armour, where plates can be knocked off, and extra damage is dealt to your ship if the same location is hit too much
maybe have absorbing weapons as a way of providing raw materials to nanobots so you can visibly see your ship being repaired by them... maybe with a visual effect similar to the thrust vectoring nozzels folding in in the pure intro video?

but isn't this already in Pure? I mean, with the absorbing of weapons and the visual effect of the ship being repaired while in flight.

[Manic]

Arrrh! You keep annoying me with your conservatism! If you were game developers or industrial designers I'm sure you'd understand that it's completely possible to combine the good things about wipeout with the good things with realism! It's all about design, not compromising!

Anyway, whatever happens I will want to see things like thrust, turbulence and metal scrap flying around in a sequel. You can't not have that.

[eLhabib]

metal scrap parts flying around fits into a mad max style game. NOT w'o''.

[Manic]

Metal scrap parts fir into any game which has weapons in it...

[Lion]

I gotta agree with manic on this...
if there's weapons fire there should be shrapnel, unless you are dealing entirely with energy weaponry which could conceivably (for want of better terms) cauterize the wound

[Manic]

Eeeow! That would be some really nice fx. A plasma stream tearing up a big scar in your right wing, vaporizing the metal... nice!

[Animagic]

I remember after XL came out I had an idea for a Wipeout :Legends game where it would take it to it's first struggling year of anti-grav racing.
The ship designs would look like the old 30's futurist art deco type of stuff

anyway it's similar to what the thread starter proposed.

I think the series needs to change in a big way or it's going to die.
What exactly needs to change, I'm not sure.
We got a lot of change in Fusion but it turned a lot of us off
(I actually found a lot to like about it...)

Obviously better graphics are going to be a part of whatever future incarnation of the series we see down the road...
I really hope we get a totally fresh experience the way it was when I played
the first WipEout on the Playstation. Totally ethereal and completely engrossing.

it was like nothing I had played before... it was totally awesome.
each successive version feels more and more derivitive from this original version to me.
I know a lot of people think XL is the greatest but to me it's always the first one.
In other words, it's getting boring. *koff* gran turismo *koff*

anyway, I totally agree the A.I. and the way the races are set up with the catch up logic
is ancient.

Maybe they should consider some slalom style point-to-point tracks a-la Hydro Thunder or SSX?

[/long post over]

[eLhabib]

Actually, this is the only game franchise I don't want to change and evolve too much. As long as the next w'o'' plays like w3o, feels like the original w'o'', looks like 2097 and purE combined, has ace graphics and zero flaws, AND IS ONLINE, it's PERFECTLY fine with me. I want the perfect w'o'', not an evolution to something else.

[Kansas]

an ONLINE feature would be cherry.

[Rapier Racer]

Its a must have, if the next Wipeout fails to have an online play feature I think i'll jump off a cliff

[Zero [RG] [HG]]

I remember after XL came out I had an idea for a Wipeout :Legends game


Damnit people stop stealing my ideas please! :)

[Lion]

Maybe they should consider some slalom style point-to-point tracks a-la Hydro Thunder or SSX?I like this idea.
anyone got any more concepts for new modes? pursuit mode has been mentioned elsewhere

[lunar]

Just some bloody long races, like Dimension`s challenge, so its more like the real motor racing of the future, not just arcade blasts, though they should be kept in also. If AI ships were to be involved in long races it would obviously require the aforementioned AI improvements, but seeing as Studio Liverpool also make Sony`s exclusive F1 games they should have the staff to achieve this and do it well. :)

[Captain Q]

An online mode would definitely rock, but what about lagging or fluidity problems? In a very fast paced game like wipEout, that may be kind of a problem.

[Lion]

doesn't seem to be an issue for pure. I've been playing it a bit over xlink and it's fine. I'm in new zealand. I've mostly been playing people in the usa and sweden

[Animagic]

something else I liked about the first wipeout is depending on what speed class you were racing in (venom, rapier)
the time of day or environment would change on the tracks.

this is DEFINITELY something that should be brought back to the series to help break up the monotony of racing the same courses over and over.

day, night, rain, lightning, I know they are using these elements now but they are track specific only....
(or in fusion's case a hybrid of track specific and randomized which I guess could work but...)
I think its something the other games have been missing for years now.

I would like to see racing on a track on one speed setting in summertime and another speed setting on the same track in the dead of winter (leafless trees, ice on buildings etc)
I don't know... some variation....
what do you guys think?

[Lion]

sounds good to me :)

[Kansas]

in Wip3out some of the tracks would have environmental changes depending on the league or speed...

[Lance]

.
i think that time trials should always be under the exact same conditions to provide consistency for competing against other individual players for world records. this need not hold true for live multiplayer competitions. on the other hand, in single-player singlerace mode, the additional variability of race conditions would make world record tables more difficult because the sheer randomness would make it take far too many races to get the conditions that would allow a really great time. so my opinion is that weather and track condition variability should be standard only in multiplayer, both online and offline, and should be an optional choice in single-player singlerace mode. for world record singlerace rankings, variability would be switched off.
.

[Lion]

it could still at least change from class to class without having any bearing on timetable comparisons
not that single race isn't really compared anyway...

I can understand your point about TT comparisons though

[Captain Q]

in Wip3out some of the tracks would have environmental changes depending on the league or speed...

Which tracks? IIRC this is not the case.


i think that time trials should always be under the exact same conditions to provide consistency for competing against other individual players for world records. this need not hold true for live multiplayer competitions. on the other hand, in single-player singlerace mode, the additional variability of race conditions would make world record tables more difficult because the sheer randomness would make it take far too many races to get the conditions that would allow a really great time. so my opinion is that weather and track condition variability should be standard only in multiplayer, both online and offline, and should be an optional choice in single-player singlerace mode. for world record singlerace rankings, variability would be switched off.

Agreed!

[pac666]

Bring back DR, and no over reliance on weapons. The speed rush should be the thing with a thumping sountrack. Please Please Please redo all original Wipeout tracks as a bonus.

[Kansas]

in Wip3out some of the tracks would have environmental changes depending on the league or speed...

Which tracks? IIRC this is not the case.


Remember the Mall? In the slower speeds it's day time... but in the faster leagues it's at night... that's just one example.

[Zero [RG] [HG]]

I never noticed that.

But I may have just forgotten it, because by Wip3out CD was bent like hell by this asswipe two years ago. :evil:

[Sausehuhn]

in Wip3out some of the tracks would have environmental changes depending on the league or speed...
yes, but I just noticed changes in the multiplayer leagues (there are some lights turned off etc.).
Between: I hate that! When I race against a friend I want a good designed track as well. If some parts that are really important for the atmosphere are turned off, the track isn't as good as it originally is. Example: In Fusion at Katmoda 12, there are these lightnings in a tunnel. They are turned off in Multiplayer.

For the weather in Wip3out: I often read that the weather changes when you go to the higher classes. But I never really noticed that. ...maybe because I only race on Phantom? :roll:

[Dogg Thang]

I have never ever noticed any changes in environment in WO3. Are you guys sure about that? MegaMall was always day for me as far as I remember (though I could be wrong). I would certainly welcome changes in time of day to a new WO though. I still wish that it was in Pure!

[Sausehuhn]

Example:
Look at G' de Europa in Wip3out SE in single race and then in Multiplayer. In Multiplayer the lights on the roof aren't activated.

[eLhabib]

you're talking about splitscreen multiplayer, right? well, they have to reduce textures and effects, you know, the PS has to do twice as much processing otherwise! All the effects should be there in a linked game, though. Could someone confirm this? Zargz, maybe?

[Lance]

.
i've never seen these environment changes in WO3, but i've never played multiplayer
.

[zargz]

In the linked games everything is as in normal SR (afair)
but when playin split screen some detail is gone.
and probly done like an "effect" 8)
Only thing I've noticed is on MM the sky is dark when on splitscreen.
you can see that for yourselves, just plug in a second controller and choose a 2player game.
the lights on gare d'Europa I didnt notice so I'll go check'em out! ;)

[Lance]

.
i can't even see anything in that damned first Gare d'Europa tunnel when the lights are On!
.

[Space Cowboy]

I've noticed that you get pretty palm trees that appear on Porto Kora :)
Very nice.

[wirehang]

I want to see a more realistic world, i want to see clouds moving in the sky and water rippling. rain is good but i want more

I also want better AI and better racing progression. And a "tour" mode which if you play it from start to finish will walk you through every feature of the game ending in completion/full medals.

matt

[Manic]

And don't the turbulence forget and steam and flames so I can go explode between my hours of hand-to-hand combat with ninjas... HAYIIIA!

No, seriously, I don't just want the niceness new graphics. I want more realistic physics (bug free, unlike those in Fusion) and more dangers of the being on the track and longer races so you have to be skilled really and if you ain't you go BOOOM! One wrong decision of the split-second and a smudge on the wall you are!

But maybe this is too much for some (people you bring over to sit on the couch and play with you and eventually throw out the window), so my proposition is that introduce a selection thingy of the "Mode" in the "Options" menu you do, so you can choose between "Classic" and "Serious" and "Extreme" and "Slow-Ass-****ers-With-Bad-Reflexes-Who-Like-Neon-Lights" of the modes.

And since the ships essentially are aircraft of the ground level, don't bars make that show the speed only, but a parallell one which represents the thrust! Speed and the thrust are of the same thing NOT! No they arrreeent...

[Rapier Racer]

One thing I want in any future WO game are the 8 teams from WO 3 garanteed, we all know how upsetting it is when your team is removed don't we, new teams are also welcome but maybe they could be unlockable content

[Manic]

And no spelling errors.

[zargz]

At least the first 4 Classic teams from wo" and 2097!
Well piranha is a semiclassic by now ;)

[phoenixx]

...and with their original performance as in wo and wo 2097. I liked that better than the 'more balanced' performance in pure. and you can use it as a balancing handicap: the beginner starts with piranha, the pro with feisar, for example.

edit by Lance: needless quote removed; read the guidelines, please

[zargz]

I like 'the Balance' better - then you can use your favorite ship, be it goteki, feisar or iqrex, to compete against other people (and the game)
and not be forced to use superships(piranha in 2097 & icaras in wo3/se) to have a chance!
The balance in wo" was ok and what I hear about pure makes me wanna have it right Now! :cry:

[conrad]

The Racing experience is all important for me. which of course brings into question how the AI and that works. Qualifying and a larger grid would also be nice. 20 competitors and 10 teams perhaps?

A collision damage model would be something i like to see; weapon damage to be delt with by shields, but physical collision between the ship and say a wall/competitor. And i'd like to see F1 style pitstops, i.e. damaged wings and nose cones getting replaced while shields are getting recharged. which could probably be justified by a slightly more lo-tech setting (early AG racing perhaps).

I'd like to see a bit more variety in tracks as well; standard wipeout tracks mixed with point to point city/off road races/events.

Plus i'd like to be able to customise my craft ashetically, but not performance wise. Perhaps with different decals and customisable colour schemes.

oh and a really good forum/website guys!

[Lance]

.
i very much dislike both qualifying and collision damage.

-----------------

welcome to the forums, Dave
.

[conrad]

Well I would like to see a definite break from the "start from the back and catch up", in championship modes at the very least.

What I would like a PS3 version (over say the current PSP version) to bring to the table is a tad more depth, not only in terms of game modes and content available, craft, tracks and so forth. There should be more depth gameplay wise as well. "better AI" and a closer, tighter and more involved racing experience. I'd like to see more challenging tracks as well. Also greater control over your craft, better air control?

Also maybe there could be aerodynamic effects such as slipstream, drag and perhaps even wind (extreme weather?).

[zargz]

I very much like the 'qualifying' system of RollCage2 - the better you finish in a race the further back you start on the next! :D
which if was applyable to wo3/se would mean that we'd have to start last all the time coz of the horrible AI ..
so Yes for better AI!
I didn't play Pure yet but the word is the AI there is Much better/harder than in previous wo"s!
which make my wo" heart jump a beat! :mrgreen:

[Lance]

.
since ''conrad'' is Dave Schumacher, i suspect he is already familiar with Pure and its AI ;) but would still prefer the changes he mentions, even though the only one i am in total agreement with is having greater control in the air. sorta like WO3, for instance :D
.

[Lion]

I can't remember if anyone else has mentioned it in this thread. but I'd like to see some linear tracks thrown in the mix, not just loops

[xqpx]

The next Wipeout needs better AI. I want to feel like I'm actually racing, not just trying to fly well and hope that I catch that 1st place ship at the end. I don't want to race against opponents that feel like robots.

But more important than that to me is an online mode... if the next Wipeout has no online mode, I'm going to be really disappointed. I've been playing Burnout 3 for a long time, and if Wipeout can top that, I will play it for a long, long time. I will never do time trials again. 8)

Also, the slowdown when you get hit by weapons needs to be reduced. The way some weapons are in Pure would put too much luck into the online mode.

[zargz]

I'd like to see some linear tracks thrown in the mix, not just loopsG-surfers had that and nop .. I didn't like it.
I think that Rally and track racing are two totally different things
and it will probably feel the same way as the open areas in fusion - like they don't belong there.
Besides that it'd be a Lot to memorise if you are gonna race let's say at Phantom speed for four minutes!!! 8O

[Ally Graham]

I had an idea:
A career mode where you start as a wannabe, dreaming of being in the anti-grav leagues. You start will a ship built from scrap parts, and you have to work your way up through the ranks, buying more parts with money you earn from winning races and causeing the most damage in a burnout syle.
There would still be the other game modes, but just had that as an idea.

[Captain Q]

I like that idea.

Also, in re: to a few posts above, I am very fond of a balanced system. A progressive scale where each ship is better than the next will result in everyone flying the same ship. That wouldn't seem like fun to me.

[Sausehuhn]

I would like to see downloadable content for the next WipEout as well (even when I haven't Pure yet and can't say how it is - but I think - and I also read it here in the forums - that it is a real thrill to see new ships, tracks, skins, patches and new features are coming up)
But this time they should keep the dates of the releases.

I also would like to see all teams we ever saw in a WipEout game + new ones.

And: let the new WipEout rock the world :rock_on

[Lance]

.
looking at the list so far, i hope that PS3 has at least a two layer ''Blue Ray'' DVD. and that the developers have at least three years and unlimited cash to work with
.

[Captain Q]

Well, making the perfect wipEout game would bring another problem: how could they possibly make a sequel to that without it being worse? :)

Q

[eLhabib]

well, just let them make the perfect w'o'' game. Once they've done that, we can start thinking about a sequel (like that's ever gonna happen, duh). Strange, but somehow I feel that we will never see another good w'o'' again. Can't help it... :(

[Manic]

Well, the very notion of making a "perfect" w"o" game is laughable at best, since such a thing could never be. Everybody has different taste for what is good and bad. Me, I want to keep the traditional feeling of the WipeOut series but I'm not afraid to introduce new concepts or designs to the game (unlike some others coughlancecough), while others want to keep the old design, old music, old everything.

Personally, I think you have to realize the only reason the ships in the first WipeOut game were so edgy was that the graphics were limited, not only because the developers thought it cool that way. And you shouldn't be so afraid of change!

Then again, Studio Liverpool doing the design for e.g. Fusion instead of Designer's Republic might not have been the best of choices, but that's another matter...

[infoxicated]

Good Technology did the graphic design for Wipeout Fusion.

[Lance]

.
Manic said: '' but I'm not afraid to introduce new concepts or designs to the game (unlike some others coughlancecough),''
simply not true. i even suggested a couple of previously unused racing formats that i'd like to see in future Wipeouts. just because i have been publically chastised by the site creator is no justification for you to lie about what i've said nor to in effect flame me. please be more civilised.
.

[Wiseman]

I wouldn't mind having the ships of the next Wipeout game look like the ones that are on the front of the Wipeout XL box. I've always liked them because they were complex, yet simple at the same time.

[Manic]

Good Technology did the graphic design for Wipeout Fusion.

/ I stand corrected.

/ Anyway, they didn't do a fantastic job, now did they? They ought to have looked a bit more at the prequels.

/ And as for your point Wiseman, I couldn't agree more. If you look at e.g. that Qirex on the front, then you see something pretty close to how I imagine an AG ship.

/ Also, Lance, how am I not civilized? I'm just an evil person, that's all. Nothing uncivilized about it. If you feel hurt, either say it right out or throw some dirt back. I won't be offended. Also, I was not talking about racing formats in this case but about designs. Still, I apologize for not taking my time to look through your posts and reading them carefully.

/ As for your dispute with the site creator(s), I have no knowledge whatsoever of that matter and thus could not have referred to it.

/ Best wishes.

[Lance]

.
the 'dispute' referred to was posted publically in the forums. if you were not aware of it, then you do not read the forums with sufficient thoroughness; this would inhibit the accuracy of your replies and comments.

we try to avoid tossing dirt here; that's why the WipeoutZone is better than most of the infantile, ego-driven forums that consist mostly of insults and the posturing of assumed or wanna-be superiority. it is official policy, as stated by infoxicated in the WipeoutZone guidelines, that flaming, baiting, and insult are to be avoided. such behaviour is indeed uncivilised and is not tolerated here. deliberate insults and attempts to annoy are grounds for post deletion, and in more extreme cases, membership deactivation or outright banning. we have lost only a few members because of this issue, a testament to infoxicated's policies and the kind of member the WZ attracts because of those policies.








and now, back to the subject of this thread, which was um..... the sort of Wipeout do we want to see on PS3 :D
.
.

[TMoney]

Wow. .. we could build the perfect civilization with only Wipeout Zone members...

Of course it would eventually die out due to the male/female ratio... but ah well.

[Lance]

.
lol
yeah, and i'm afraid that even if some sort of personal immortality were to be developed, most of our members would feel the lack of female companionship
.

[Manic]

/ So what do you think of the idea of having different "interfaces" for each craft then?

/ I think I've already posted a lead to something like this in another post, but that was not in the "WipeOut Future" section, so it needs to be said.

/ I would like the huds and announcing voices for the different crafts to be different and to reflect the personality of each team. For example: the Feisar HUD would be blue and round, their announcer voice would be a young male voice with a british accent, and their in cockpit view would be nice and bright with yellow glass tint. The same way, Auricom would have a red and blue, not so round (more computer-like) hud, a serene, young female voice for announcer and the Qirex team's hud and cockpit interior would be more raw, with black and purple as the main colour scheme and a mature male voice with a slight (very slight) russian accent.

/ The same way I would like the crafts to have some built-in systems engineered to give them an edge over the competition which reflects the team's attitude and expertise. E.g. Auricom don't like violent racing, so they've installed a countermeasure system which uses focused AG fields to make projectiles veer away. Qirex go for speed (I think Qirex should be the speed demons of the next game. Back to their roots), so they would build in a system which allows you to turn your shield energy into extra thrust. All of this has to be activated though, at some cost (Auricom's system would slow the craft down, Qirex's drains shield), and become more and more effective (from having initially been not very effective) as you upgrade the ship or progress through the classes.

/ And I do beleive the ships should look slightly different for each version and class. It adds to the feeling.

/ Have I added enough to the site yet?

[Hybrid Divide]

Hey now.

Let's try to not be so negative here.

The prospect of a new WipEout should be cause for celebration around here.
Personally, I thought WipEout Pure was fantastic, and I'm confidant that the best for us WipErs is yet to come.

Let's be friends! :D

[Manic]

/ That's Xios' slogan, I think (do correct me if it's not), and they are the ones who'll put a Plasma up your ass if you turn your back...

/ No, you're right. I thank you for your words. It's good to know people can be friendly instead of just threatening. And thank you for adding to this otherwise pretty bleak section. Seems very few are interested in discussing the future of the series, don't you think?

[Hybrid Divide]

Just to add a correction.

That slogan is for AG-Systems International, from WipEout 3.

It takes more than us to be friends, You yourself need to be nice and friendly too.

I know the mods can seem strict sometimes. But there's a good reason behind it. I don't think they LIKE having to be like that, but they do what they have to to keep this forum from decending into utter chaos, like most other forums out there.

Thanks for listening. :)

[Space Cowboy]

Strange, but somehow I feel that we will never see another good w'o'' again. Can't help it... :(

I completely agree, sad and unfortunate as it is.
Ive stopped playing pure, cant even be bothered to try the new tracks I donwloaded. Maybe I will in the near future, but for me its just not fun anymore.

I hope they let the series pass on gracefully as it deserves.

[Space Cowboy]

I think Manic has some issues. :roll:

[eLhabib]

Strange, but somehow I feel that we will never see another good w'o'' again. Can't help it... :(

I completely agree, sad and unfortunate as it is.
Ive stopped playing pure, cant even be bothered to try the new tracks I donwloaded. Maybe I will in the near future, but for me its just not fun anymore.

I hope they let the series pass on gracefully as it deserves.

don't get me wrong on this, it's not that I don't like purE. I love purE, I think it is as good as a handheld w'o'' could ever be. What I am saying is that I feel this will have been the last good w'o'' game. With all the technical advancements of the next console generation I am very afraid that the innovation and attention to detail will give way to blunt blockbuster effect bombs. Of all the games that where shown at E3 there was only one which really stood out for me, and it was not because of it's graphics, but because of it's GENIUS gameplay design. The game is called 'Shadow of the Colossus' and will be released for PS2 this fall. I haven't anticipated a game this much since w'o'' 2097.

[Task]

8 ) Indeed, 'Shadow of the Colossus' is looking sweeeeet.
Their previous title was ICO (you probably already know this, but ICO needs pimping wherever it can get it) and it was an absolutely beautiful game.
I'm definitely looking forward to anything that comes out of that dev. studio.

Of course, I think the point of your post was that for all the pretty graphics that can be generated, good game design wins out.

And I think that's the category that WO falls into. The next WO, whatever it is, needs to stand on a rock-solid footing. The basic game design needs to be as good as it can be. It's hard to imagine just what that will be, since there's only so much you can do with a racing game that's over in 3 minutes, but we've seen great design in the past and we can see it again in the future.

Design Is Law! 8 )

[Lion]

god I hope we don't get an ion cannon on the ships

[Space Cowboy]

IMHO They shouldnt make another WO game, designers nowdays arent capable of outstanding originality, and thats what WO originally was.

[Shem]

Yeah, well, better the sequel than nothing! Of course we all (i think you'd agree) would like to play something that's as big as Wipeout becoming your second best game ever (W'O" comes first), but right, developers nowdays are not too keen on being original. I don't blame them, it's the games developing industry (or just market), that dictates all the rules, there's not much place for 'other' games. Oh and that doesn't apply to Japan. But they're nuts :wink:

[Lance]

.
thank the Tenkku for that! their eccentricities please me greatly
.

[Brother Laz]

It's the weapons.

It can't ever have better AI or be more realistic when you don't actually have to overtake anyone, just get them on the screen and blast them off the track.

Weapons that merely slow down the opponent so you still have to catch them yourself, not just 'press a button & everyone in front goes flying', would encourage actual racing more.

Quake. Bad weapon. Makes it hurt more to be in front. With all other weapons it it just as dangerous to be in 2nd place as in 7th place [1st and 8th are safer, but you can't shoot back as much either], but quake makes it unlikely that anyone can be in front and stay in front the whole race.

Also the abundance of forward-firing weapons would turn a real race into a contest of slowness instead of speed. In the first Wipeout, two player matches would be impossible; both players would attempt to get behind the other one and fire a Revcon just before the last corner. In the other Wipeouts, just stay behind and quake/thunder bomb/drain/missile the other player until he croaks.

How about a weaponless Wipeout? :)

[Space Cowboy]

Im all for it! :) Pure skill no weapons. Wipeout has become more about combat than racing, this is wrong.

[Dogg Thang]

While I completely agree with your last sentence, weapons have been an integral part of WO since the start. I think they still have a place in the future of WO, but I would love to see the focus on racing, not combat.

I think in newer WO games, I'd like to see the weapons as minor annoyances, or something that can give you a slight advantage when used correctly - not things that can make or break a race.

Some people love their pyrotechnics though, so I'm not sure what way things will go.

[Sausehuhn]

How about a weaponless Wipeout?
I like the weapons, they make more action at the track. But you're right, sometimes too much action. Don't know about Pure, but if I'm right you can turn off weapons in all the other games. Take a look at the "options" section :)

[zargz]

yeh but then the Ai sux even more :(
dunno about pure though

[conrad]

hmm, weapons can be fun, as can racing without them. As long as the user is given a choice between the two then thats fine by me.

[Mobius]

I like weapons it was one of the features which drew me to the game in the first place, but the spamming in fuision wan't quite what I had in mind.

I like the balance of the weapons in 2097 and 3.

Here is and idea i would like to see. Imagine the training mode of Rollcage stage II but more wipeoutey. There would be about 15-20 stages, with each coveringa different skill (one stage could be a string of hairpins, another could be a section full of jumps or even no walls.) When they have completed all the stages seperately, there have a final test by doing a time trial lap of all the stages which when put together, make up a huge circuit. Think the Nurburgring (apologies if this is spelt wrong) but on steriods.

Once you complete that mode you get to unlock the track as a whole in race and time trial modes!

[Lance]

.
i like that idea as long as this is some bonus track, and i can still race the regular tracks without qualifications or licences
.

[username]

as above bring back designers republic and maybe dr angryman as the announcer
bring back energy drain reflector and force wall from wip3out

[Lance]

.
the designers whose work you fancy aren't actually at Designers' Republic any more. no guarantee that they'd do the same kind of work now that they did then even if you tracked them down. and certainly no guarantee that the present day designers at DR would
.

[Dogg Thang]

And, as much as I loved the DR design (and still do) I think that SL have truly proven themselves when it comes to their own in-house design on Pure.

[Space Cowboy]

I agree, they have shown that they dont really need to bring in the DR in order to produce a convincing and vibrant design for the WO series.

[Colin Berry]

IMHO They shouldnt make another WO game, designers nowdays arent capable of outstanding originality, and thats what WO originally was.


I was going to respond but I couldnt think of anything original to say.

[Space Cowboy]

hehe :wink:

I merely wish for the series to pass on gracefully, and not be ran into the dirt.
If it does continue, then lets hope its FUN to play.

[lunar]

Weapons are integral to wipeout and personally I don`t care for an option to switch the weapons off – there`s time trial if you just want unhindered flying. Pure frustrates a lot of players who perceive its use of weapons to be excessive, but with lighter weapons it would be too easy to beat. However, with the next gen game it should be possible to tone down the weapons and keep the AI challenging and intelligent enough.

Just get rid of all weapons which don`t require manual targeting by the pilot, and also those which cannot be avoided. These are generally the same weapons. Doing this will cut down on the amount of stopping and increase the skill required to win. Sure the quake is kind of fun to watch, but to use it on someone two corners ahead requires no skill – and its unfair when it happens to you too.

Nothing is more satisfying than a well-timed plasma or rocket strike..... but hitting a distant rival with a cpu-targeted missile is cheap.

the bomb actually requires some skill to use as you have to manoeuvre yourself into the right position to deploy it, and make sure you drop it where someone will actually fly. Diving infront of another ship and dropping one on their nose cone is seriously satisfying. Avoiding it is possible if you are sharp enough, and its lovely when you do. Making it possible to hit your own bombs would give careless bomb-droppers second thoughts, and give you something else to think about.

Though I want an increase in weapon-skill generally, there should still be some luck involved in the game though - and I don`t think Pure relies on it as much as has been suggested. If you keep flying well you will win a track eventually. As Zargz said elsewhere, in some ways the AI are only behaving like people would. The weapons in Pure are only slightly over the top for me. I`m more worried about cheap shots with easy weapons.

MY PS3 wipeout Weapons list:

definites:

rockets
plasma
bomb
shield
turbo (race mode only).

maybes:

mines – these are like bombs but just not as cool.
autopilot: I think Pure`s autopilot is pretty good as you have to use it quite intelligently. It should be a bit slower though.
Possibly a return for the Grenades from Fusion, just to provide some variation. Make them fly up high and come down once instead of bouncing down the track. Perhaps you could use them to shoot people who are around the next corner if you time it right, by lobbing them up above the track. This would need skill and provide quite a shock for the guy infront as these little bombs start falling around him.

definitely nots:

no missiles
no quakes.
no turbo in time trial - just give us a faster game.
no disruptor - nice idea but its ultimately just a pain.

edit: sorry, that was huge....

[Drakkenmensch]

How about we keep the missile, but instead of having it use a nigh-infallible lock, make it more challenging to use? It could run semi-intelligently along the track, more or less following the general layout of the track, and the player would have to press the attack button a second time to detonate it. Certainly a more strategic weapon to use, and would require some skill :)

[lunar]

yeah that could work, or wreck your mind :D ... having to look at where your missile is going and steer the ship at the same time.

Another way to do missile would be that when you fire it your ship goes into autopilot, while at the same time your point of view follows that of the missile as it screams up the track, and you have to steer the missile into the intended target yourself, with it handling like a brick at 1000 mph. After the explosion, hit or miss, your point of view returns to the ship and you take control again after a short countdown of 1-2 seconds. Could be entertaining..... not sure.

[Drakkenmensch]

Oh, and MY suggestion was gonna drive pilots nuts? ;)

Yours is quite clearly deranged on so many levels, I can't help but absolutely LOVE IT!

I WANT MY MISSILE CAM!!!

[Lion]

haha, you want a ship mounted redeemer :P I like it :D
as to the disruptor. I'd like to see that left in for multiplayer

[Rapier Racer]

You have to have the missile! It’s tradition you can't take it away it would be like removing Feisar, I like the idea of having to guide the missile around yourself but how long would you be able to do this for? Would it be possible to guide it round the whole track and have the auto pilot do a lap for you, that's the kind of thing I wouldn't like to see, you'd also have to use it carefully as the auto pilot could send you into a wall when it turns off, then again this whole approach make the game sound more weapons based and it takes the simplicity that is the missile. They could just generally make the missile less accurate not allowing it to turn corners for example

[eLhabib]

or just have the lock on be REEEAAALLY slow so you have to aim for quite a long time for it to lock.

[Sausehuhn]

I like the missile. I use it more to slow the opponents down, not to destroy them. It gives you a chance to go for the 1st position, even when you're a few metres behind the 1st place.

do do do do - duuuuu - missle unocked :D

[Drakkenmensch]

One weapon I'm really puzzled about is the disruptor bolt. One of the effects it occasionally has is to switch your ship on to autopilot. SERIOUSLY.

"Oh, you just bolted me. Huh, I'm on autopilot now, thank you for helping me navigate the final twists of Karbonis, I probably would have made fourth place, but I got gold instead, hahaha!"

[Space Cowboy]

Yeah I found that aswell, all of a sudden the screen goes warpy and the ship is flying itself pratically.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Guess it's just there to make you think twice about using it with that small chance of actually helping your opponent.

[RJ O'Connell]

As infox said, better AI. I really don't want to make the racing "competitive" by intentionally running poorly like I have to do in Fusion, XL, or WO1.

Online play is an absolute must, and I don't mean run a time trial, get a code, then enter it in online to see where you rank amongst other players - SCREW THAT. I actually want to RACE against OTHER REAL PLAYERS.

Whoever made the ship stats for Pure must only know that FEISAR turns good but is slow. Yes, I know a change in philosophy is good, but I felt unsatisfied knowing I had no real problems steering a Qirex. They're suppsed to be lightning-fast, bad-handling bricks. None of this "all-rounder" jazz. Also, make it like Wip3out where we don't have "perfect teams."

And, old crafts/tracks/pilots as unlockables.

[G'Kyl]

That's the one thing I am most dissapointed with in Pure: Qirex. As you said: Qirex became one out of many, not that fastest brick you can't handle. Too bad really.

I have to say, I don't need to see old tracks and craft in another installation. Somehow I feel like we've had enough of them (and it was good!). I want unique content. And I again agree with RJ: AI needs to get better. This has always been the weakest part of the games. Pure was a huge step in the right direction, but we still got the "rubber" effect, for instance. And I don't say they should be out for destruction, but the computers actually need to learn to fly. ;) Or,for God's sake, let them adopt to the players speeds, I know games where the AI adjusted to your skills, which worked perfectly well to keep you motivated.

Apart from that, I want custom soundtracks (!), more zone tracks and the challenges from WO64 and 3. What was wrong with elimination, I wonder, especially when you think about multiplayer... Trying new things is also fine, but future developers should leave the formula intact so we don't get another Fusion.

So, there it is finally. I really got slow posting these days. ;)

Ben

[RJ O'Connell]

Also, how about Multi-Player LAN for all your future LAN parties? :D You can play some, then watch your friends play while enjoying a nice bottle of Aquax Dried Water [TM].

[G'Kyl]

Speaking about watching your friends: Replays! I want them! :)

[lunar]

Replays - absolutely essential for multiplayer games on PS3.

One thing about Pure that definitely should not be altered is the amount the walls slow you down - its just right. In multiplayer hitting a wall doesn`t necessarily mean you lose a close race - but it slows you down just enough that you never want to do it. This balance is perfect.

Also the missile works a lot better in multiplayer. Its too easy against the AI - but against a human it can be hard to keep a line of sight long enough to get a lock, and there are certain places where a missile is just not going to hit and you might aswell absorb it, so its not necessarily all that easy to make effective use of your missiles and you have to be a bit tactical with the way you use them.

[Mobius]

I think there should be somthing similar to the insomniac museum as a bonus unlockable. Where you can be a litle robot walking (or flying) around a hangar and you can see some of the concept ideas and even try out some of the tracks originally abandoned during development, such as the hidden 2097 track on the disk.

[Dogg Thang]

There's a hidden 2097 track?! Really?

[Childlikecake]

I think I speak for everyone when I say. "A HIDDEN 2097 TRACK? ARE YOU SERIOUS? WHERE? HOW?"

[Sausehuhn]

[I'm not sure if this is right]

I heard about a hidden track in 2097 one time in the forums. It's on the CD as well, but it does not work. It's a unfinished track or something like that.
I don't think you will get it to run...

[Seek100]

It's not really a track as it's impossible to race on, I think it was meant to be on the moon or something, kind of a sequel to Firestar from w'o". Anyway re: wipEout6 I think they should continue to alter team stats in ways to make them further removed from earlier incarnations, I find it hilarious people moan about Qirex being too much an all-rounder, or Assegai no longer being made of origami, and so on. Someone said they probably didnt know about the 'traditional' stats beyond Feisar, as far as I'm aware Mr. Berry and team at SL knew a hell of a lot about the stats, I remember a post where one member of the team explained they compiled a list of all the different team stats over the course of the series and the recurring teams had very contradictory stats. Plus, imagine if every rally or F1 team kept the exact same different performances year in and year out, team philosophies change over time and it's getting silly that teams like Feisar and AG-5Y5 hold the same stats for 150 years, it's refreshing to see some change in pure.

My only problem with the weapons in pure is the disruption bolt being the work of someone very sadistic and the fact that whenever you are hit by rockets, missiles, mines a bomb or any of the explosive weapons you lose all control of your craft which slows to a halt (sometimes even reversing back up the track) and you just slide into a wall for a couple of minutes before ever-so-slowly accelerating again, this slows down the pace so much and means a single weapons hit will lose you the race, most annoying.

[eLhabib]

the reverse-control disruptor is a weapon right out of hell, I agree, but it's not really frequent, so I could care less.
If the missiles, rockets and bombs throw you off so badly, try countering the pressure applied by the weapon to your craft with a sideshift - works for me. Usually, when you are hit you tumble into a wall, and THAT'S the thing that really slows you down, so if you react quickly and work against the shockwave drift with a sideshift, you will be back to normal in no time, loosing only a little speed.

[Hyper Shadow]

I truely hate the disruption bolt. I've been hit by it that many times into a turn and have just ended up turning around to face the other way its unbelieveable.

But is it me or are there three kinds of disruption bolt? One which shifts you from side to side, one which reverses the controls and one which zooms out and zooms in on your ship? They're all annoying though.

[judus]

I would like to see how the overall team count, the number of crafts on track and the track design evolve on the ps3. After all as similar as pure maybe to 2097/XL, it does have it's own personality. For example the HDR light effect when you zoom out of tunnels, the way the sun flare distracts your vision when you go uphill on some tracks and other little features.
Seen as the ps3 is more capable, there might be some interesting changes to the craft design itself. Theres nothing stopping them from including all the core elements as they are then introducing the new stuff.
Personally, id like to see more teams (hell of a lot more) available through progression even if they all dont race at the same time.
Also it would be nice to see tracks from different areas with different themes in addition to multiple tracks from the same area as is the case with pure (not like fusion with inter-connected track segments).

[eLhabib]

I truely hate the disruption bolt. I've been hit by it that many times into a turn and have just ended up turning around to face the other way its unbelieveable.

But is it me or are there three kinds of disruption bolt? One which shifts you from side to side, one which reverses the controls and one which zooms out and zooms in on your ship? They're all annoying though.

colin berry wrote in another thread:


The chance of any ship picking up a disruption bolt is about 7% (there are 10 pick ups but each is weighted individually)

The Disrupter effects....... hmmm well the game has been around long enough and most of these have been mentioned at some point or another so...

crikey I cant remember, one second I'll have to check... there might be more or less than 8...

right there is actually 10 (there was 14 but we cut some)
(all are temporary effects)

Stall
Disable airbrakes
reverse controls
autopilot slow
autopilot fast
drunk controls
rubber ship
alter gravity
drunk camera
trippy

[Rapier Racer]

I find that sometimes the distruption bolt has no effect and most time I have been hit with it it has guided me round a sharp bend just nicely lol, 7% I disagree, I've picked up a lot of distruption bolts during my races

[Seek100]

That 7% are the odds of you picking one up, not a set-in-stone number of how often you'll see it, I mean there's a 50% chance of fliping a coin and getting a heads, but if you flip a coin 100 times I'd be very, very surprised if it came up heads exactly 50 times.

Back to the speculation, I think a return to tracks spread over the world is needed, I never really liked the w3o tracks being in one city, cause there was no sense that it was still our world in the future, I think to add some of that feel tracks set in areas that have identifiable landmarks from the present would be very nice, like say a track set in Pisa could have a figure-of-eight section running around the Leaning Tower (by then it would have to have been partially straightened though cause of it's banana shaped construction it'll always be crooked) though maybe such direct interaction would be a bit crass as such sites are already protected national treasures. For the teams I think the rule of 8 and no more should definetly be broken, preferably continue all the current teams (including the 4 downloadables Tigron, Van-Über, Goteki-45 and Icaras) and add back in Xios and EG.r who were quite interesting and could be made to fit into w'o" and then some new teams on top of that, however many interesting teams with unique new designs can be thought of by the developers.

Maybe even bring back G-Tech

[phase 2]

wow I've been gone for awile you guys nailed everything good job.

[infoxicated]

Maybe even bring back G-Tech
And on that day, Satan will be going to work on a snowmobile, thinking that gee, since this place froze over, I'm not really missing all the fire that hell used to have.

[xEik]

And Macs will run the most popular online game of the moment over a UNIX OS on an Intel chipset.
.
.
.
Err, wait... 8O

[Seek100]

Damn foiled again! :lol: Just a joke dudes, though I have come up with some drawings of a pure-era G-Tech, and will make blown up versions on graph paper at some point today, even came up with a new (decent) logo. Course they'll never be brought back being a symbol of the fans hatred for Fusion and Good Technologies, we could always retcon the 'G' to mean something completely different.

[infoxicated]

we could always retcon the 'G' to mean something completely different.
Yes. Gone for Good.

:)

[Lance]

.
blown-up versions of G-Tech?
LOL

should have also said ''exploded drawings''. :)
.

[Seek100]

Like all of history's great psychotic dictators I'm gonna say I've been misquoted, besides I'm not very good at drawing things that have been exploded, in either sense of the word :lol:

[username]

there MUST be a longer movie clip at the beginning of the game, including people checking the ship before a race,
and make a new 321 girl fot the announcer, i miss it. im not realy to keen on the ready, go. have all of the ships from all of the seriesand maybe (definetly) some new ships!! :lol:
and please please please bring back the wuss wagon, but make it a little faster!! (i think that we can all agree on that one)

[Sausehuhn]

They should add a good respawn.
The one in Pure is just *hit.
Why you're respawned a few 100 meters behind and lose energy??

And yes, a longer Movieclip on the beginning would be great.
Ou ou ou, way better would be a gallery (like in Fusion and/or Pure) that shows artworks and movies!!
Or a movie splitted into 100 movies (1 movie for every percent) showing the history of WipEout. 8O

I think I'm going crazy... that is far too much...

[eLhabib]

a history movie with parts added for every gold is a SWEET idea!

the wuss wagon in purE is fine with me, the set back and energy loss seems like fitting punishment for going off-track IMO. The only thing where the wagon wusses out sometimes is when you get stuck after landing on your roof, but the odds of that are slim enough...

Oh and if you weren't confident with purE's intro then I wouldn't know how to satisfy you - that's the f+king GREATEST intro scene I have ever seen! In second comes the original wipEout intro!

[yawnstretch]

Yeah Pure's intro is the biz - pure is a damned genius game - Anyway whats all this about a hidden 2097 track? Sounds interesting to my brain.

If it were up to me I'd have the same team work on wipeout PS3 as did wipeout pure - they have certainly proven themselves.

Except for you, Colin.






(Kidding!) :D

[MissileStrike]

8O
You guys sure have inventive minds. Any way... back on topic heres some stuff i would like to see:

Holeshot: Like, every1 starts out as a line and it would be a game of chicken, to see who hasnt got the guts and slows down, to avoid the crush of going into the 1st turn.

Better Graphics: It IS PS3 afterall.

Career mode.: You chose your car and stuff and go up from being a ummmm...17 yr old racing in the local league at home and (if you get recognised) to a school where the top 3 people at the end of the school season.get a contract to go national, then international.

More race modes: like endurance races, elimination races, points races (where you must go through checkpoints in an arena and get the most points)

Customisation: like need for speed you can get a unique looking car.

uuuuuuummmmmmmm....... I think thats about it. (By the way, any people that have read Hover Car Racer will recognise these) :D

[Tanhauser]

Uh, hi - I'm new here. Uh... yeah.
Anyways, I'd just thought you like to know that according to PSM (the magazine) there is a new Wipeout under development for PS3.
I got this information from a guy on a forum, who got it from another forum, who.. you get the idea. So there is a small chance that it's all a big lie, but lets hope it's not.

[Sausehuhn]

so you mean it's allready under construction?

Hm... maybe this is the reason why we don't hear so much from Colin and the other guys... ou and sumi. I'm sure he's making the Auricom for the game.
:D

[username]

heres a new idea: there could be a game mode called checkpoint. everyone starts off with 1 minuite to do the lap. if you did it, you would have 55 secks to do the lap. and so on until you couldnt make the lap in that time and then it would be game over. :) i think that would be really good

[Drakkenmensch]

That's pretty close to time trial. Once you've managed to do a lap in a certain amount of time, you're always stuck doing the same number of laps. It would need a new kind of gimmick to really grab our attention over Zone mode.

[bakkufu]

how about elimination mode? Where the last competitor in each lap is eliminated? Stick 2 ships from each team like in previous games and you have yourself a monster of a challenge.

make it even more fun, each lap certain speedups or weapon grids deactivate.

[infoxicated]

Heck, I don't know about that - Zone mode just doesn't do it for me - an 80's arcade game style time-chase variation would be something I'd look at.

[bakkufu]

well another thing im thinking is along the lines of barrel rolling from pure, instead of sideshifting the ships could flip to each side for weapons avoidance. That would look classy when missile dodging.

[Lance]

.
sausehuhn said: ''so you mean it's allready under construction?
Hm... maybe this is the reason why we don't hear so much from Colin and the other guys''

Colin recently denied [in another thread here] that Studio Liverpool is working on a Wipeout game for PS3; he said they're working on an F1 game [if i recall correctly]
.

[Sausehuhn]

yeah, that's right Lance! I remember.

But maybe he is not working on the next game at the moment. Maybe some of his colleagues are working on the 1st concept arts.

I really hope they will read the threads in this forum, because it offers what we really want. Especially after Pure (which is a really good game) we can say what's still not that good.

[MissileStrike]

how about elimination mode? Where the last competitor in each lap is eliminated?.

:!: You stole my idea! :x
Here's what I said.

More race modes: like endurance races, elimination races :D
Hey, wait this means someone else thinks its a good idea 2! :D

[Sausehuhn]

You stole my idea!

no, no, he stole Need for Speed Underground's idea ;)

Btw: would like that.

[Rapier Racer]

An eliminination mode where the last ship to cross is gone eh, where have I seen that before...

[steninja]

that eliminations kinda sounds like f-zero where u have a target position u must be at each lap othe wise disqualification. the position moves further up the pack the closer u get to the final lap. i think u have to be top 3 on the final lap.

[Mobius]

Thats was in Rollcage stage 2 want it, along with the pursuit mode also.

Scramble mode anyone? :)

[fusionfrenzy]

You stole my idea!

no, no, he stole Need for Speed Underground's idea ;)

Btw: would like that.

Who in turn stole Burnout's idea (both Ea so its ok i guess :lol:).

It would definitely be a good addition though. If the modes were: Race, Classic Race, Zone, Elimination, Challenges and maybe one other, there'd be so much content that i'd never be able to stop playing. Bliss....

[Sausehuhn]

did I mention that I would like to see refelctions on buildings and of course on the crafts?
I always wondered why WipEout had these matt ( <- dictionary) surfaces on every thing and all the other Racing games these shiny varnished cars where lightings and buildigs are reflecting.
Aaargh, that would look so amazing.

[randomperson1]

Apparently, US playstation mag has commented that SL are working on a ps3 wipeout.

[Space Cowboy]

Now thats what I'm talkin' about! :)

edit by Lance:quotation eliminated. please read the guidelines.

[bakkufu]

Ooh what need for speed game was it in???

I just threw in my two cents there, I skim read the previous pages, so apologies for missing it! :oops:

Another possibility is a dogfighting mode, where everyone gets the machine gun weapon from wipeout 2097? and has to keep flying until they are the last racer.

[eLhabib]

then noone would be actually racing (means GOING FAST TO BE IN FIRST) anymore, seeing as you have to be BEHIND someone to shoot him...

[bakeded]

So I'm looking through the new PSM and I come across a page titled the PS3 game lineup so far. Right at the bottom of the Sony column it lists "New Wipeout".
So is this more evidence that a PS3 Wipeout is being worked on and will happen?
I guess we shall see...

[Seek100]

I reckon more likely Sony are thinking there should be another wipEout - given the success of purE it'd be a smart move.

Back to game modes, how about a mode imitating (ripping-off) that crap movie 'Speed' where you can't let your speed drop below a certain amount or a bomb detonates your craft? Just an idea.

[eLhabib]

sounds like we have something like that already in zone mode... you can't slow down there either.

[Seek100]

Yeah but in Zone you can't slow down cause the craft keeps accelerating no matter what, it's really hard to slow down very much. This would be normal ships in full races, other competitors and weapons so there'd be a real risk of you slowing below the limit imposed and blowing.

[eLhabib]

that would have to be on tracks without hairpins then...
but i don't see the point, one rocket hit and it's all over.

[Drakkenmensch]

All it takes to slow down to zero is hitting the inside wall of a curve, it happens to all of us. And if you take away the curves to make it a straight line... and from that moment on, what's the POINT? There's no challenge left whatsoever.