Any ideas for a possible sequel?

[Purist]

Afternoon fellow AG fans, ever since getting my sticky paws on Pure I couldn't help but think to myself and wonder... will there be a sequel? and if so what could be the title for it? new teams? new concepts? would it even come to the PSP or a next gen machine?

Surley (as in the movies) if a title is a HUGE hit, a follow up is plausable?

[zargz]

I'll think about that in about a half a year - when i get me an euro psp + pure .. :|

[bakeded]

One can only hope that a wonderful franchise such as wipeout will continue far into the future!

[Dogg Thang]

I would very much hope that there will be a sequel. Although it's possible they could just keep adding content for it and hit a point where they charge for updates rather than a full sequel. I would have no problem with that.

Of course I'd love to see the AI and/or weapon power tweaked in the higher classes in an attempt to put the focus on racing rather than battling.

Aside from that, well what can I ask for? Simply more of the same! Anything else would be purely cosmetic - some more open spaces in the tracks like in WO1 and I still dream of the day when we get the night/day versions of tracks, again from WO1. Maybe some longer tracks that are like a real endurance race. And I would love to see a WO mix edition that has loads of classic tracks, ships and even remixes of classic music tracks - all fully realised, not just the virtual versions.

What would make me squeal would be say a direct conversion of the PS1 Wipeouts as an extra. I have no idea how possible that would ever be. It's just they hav enever been playable on the go.

But really, I'm happy with Pure, weapons gripes aside, so more of the same would be fine.

[zargz]

What would make me squeal would be say a direct conversion of the PS1 Wipeouts as an extra. 8O same here!

[yawnstretch]

The new track download looks fan-freakin tastic - if they keep adding downloadables I'll keep playing them - and judging by the quality of the first download I would totally pay for later updates to Pure.

Im not sure if we need a sequel any time soon (except maybe for the home consoles like PS3 for example) but the only thing Id like to see happen with pure is an unlocking of the PSP's CPU so that there is ZERO slowdown (just like in the timetrials).

-ps Pure Rocks - enjoy it

[Lance]

.
unlocking the CPU? isn't it running at maximum possible already?
.

[Dogg Thang]

Well according to a lot of sources (PSP websites, if you believe them), the limit imposed by the firmware is less than the PSP is capable of. Not sure what purpose that would achieve. Maybe someone who knows more about this sort of thing can fill in the blanks.

[Lance]

.
might achieve longer battery life and cooler CPU operating temperatures.

but, in any case, i tend to believe less than half of what i read. a lOt less
.

[Rouni Kenshin#1]

Yawn streach wrote

"The new track download looks fan-freakin tastic"

where did you find it? i though it wasent out yet.

[Prometheus]

cpu capping of psp is 222Mhz out 333Mhz.. a third of the power yet be used....woah!
link 1)
http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=35451&subsectionid=1591

link 2)
http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/default.asp?subsectionid=1591&articleid=35400&pagetypeid=2

[yawnstretch]

Yawn streach wrote

"The new track download looks fan-freakin tastic"

where did you find it? i though it wasent out yet.

http://media.psp.ign.com/media/682/682962/vids_1.html

[Chill]

A Wipeout that isn't so high in riches. Like boxing gyms in the ghetto, or running down the alley of the streets. You'd go through junkyards and search for any possible way to build up your craft the best way possible, even if it looks crappy, and race 'em with others for money. This would be what you'd have to do to even get farly near to becoming an actual ag-pilot. You'd race through run-down alleys, through the road that aren't used anymore because of the new flying-cars that people would use, and floating housing above. The actual surface of the earth would then kinda be dedicated to ag-racing. :wink: Just a little thought. :)

[Purist]

Nicccccccce :) I'm sure the important people out there are watching :idea:

[Mobius]

Oh god, that would be wipeout street...

No offence chill but I can't stand Need for speed underground myself and if there was a wipeout version....

:?

...Screaming out rude words and saying "THE CHAVS HAVE TAKEN OVER!!!".

[Chill]

Ya, I know what you mean Mobius, but in this time in the future, the hip-hop negative style would be done with (praying that it would happen), but believe me, it wouldn't be like Need for Speed: Underground, we're talking about two different games here. :wink: Ok, imagine using an old taxi hovercraft, or something like this with different parts taken from places. Kinda like messn' with bikes as a kid. With dark-orange skies, being in the low parts of cities. I don't know, it just sounds cool to me. With even parts taken from cars, ya?!! :P Sound interesting? Wipeout: Junkyard. :lol: No, but seriously, it would have a blues/jazz-like effect on the person, only in a younger way. It's hard to explain, but once you've got the right image in your head, it's a totally different atmosphere, but a good one at that. :D

[Lance]

.
''A Wipeout that isn't so high in riches.''
presumably what you're attempting to say is a ''Wipeout'' in which there are no teams, no sponsors, no racing organisation. it would be private owners racing homebuilt junkers. but:

having to construct and upgrade your own ship is not Wipeout.
going through junkyards to build a ship is what Anakin Skywalker did in 'The Phantom Menace'. wrong galaxy for the Wipeout series. having to go through all the steps to build and then upgrade your racer would be too much like a Role-Playing Game for my taste, though some people might like it. i just prefer to race, whereas all the other elements take away from my racing time.

-----------

eek. i can see that world now: twenty billion people, each one living in a giant house on an anti-gravity raft, casting shadows on the world below. a world where all the grass dies without sunlight, the trees and crops die, the animals that eat them die, the humans that feed on the crops and animals die, the anti-grav rafts run out of power and drop eventually to the ground, then the sun hits the surface and the dormant seeds start the grass and things again. the world gets a two billion year break from humans till they are eventually evolved again. hm... a two billion year humanless epoch. ya know, maybe i can get behind that anti-grav housing project after all. :)
.




.

[Chill]

True, Lance, so true. :roll: You wouldn't want to be wasting time building up a craft if you're a hardcore racer like yourself. Though, I still think the idea that you had put in your third paragraph sounds awesome!! 8O Mabye they can include things like this in another Wipeout, u-think?!! :P
btw: never was much of a star-wars fan, so I pretty much never know what the heck u-guys are talkn' about when you move to that topic, just that the famous Skywalker sounds familiar. :lol:

[Space Cowboy]

I completely agree with Lance on this, Wipeout Street must NEVER happen!
Do not mess with our Wipeout, or you will incur the wrath of the faithful! :evil:

[Seek100]

I despise the idea of wipEout street (strEEt?) as much as anyone else in the thread. But as long as it's done tastefully and EA are not allowed within a million miles of the studio it could be okay to do an amatuer AG-racing game, remember the backstory for purE tells us that there's an amatuer league running at before and around the time of purE - the FX-150 league, with people building their own racers from parts sourced from the manufacturers, so the teams would take on the role almost of tuning companies for those pilots, plus we could get a chance to see what 'normal' ag-craft i.e. standard civilian craft look like in wipEout, like you could race in the A.G. equivalent of a family saloon car and buy parts from Qireж or Piranha etc.

[Dogg Thang]

Hmmm, buying parts in most games amounts to this - if you can't win a race, buy some more speed. This kills the racing end and means that balancing craft amounts to nothing in my opinion. You could buy parts in Fusion and it added nothing - it would be a step backwards to reintroduce that.

In terms of an amatuer league, well that could simply be represented in a normal Wipeout game by having different craft design for different classes - Vector ships would look a bit more like average transport vehicles, Phantom ships would be slick AG racers. You wouldn't actually have to change anything gameplay wise. After all, what changes that makes Phantom faster than Vector if not the internals of the craft engines?

[Seek100]

I think the professional speed classes are probably done by taking a phantom class engine and limiting it's power progressively to get the lower speeds.

How about this: instead of just allowing people to upgrade until the race become easy enough to win, what could be done is to have an overall points limit for a particular class, say there are 4 categories like purE - speed, thrust, shield and handling, each with 5 points to allocate, say for vector people are limited to a craft with no more than say 6 points but it's up to the player how to allocate them around their craft, then in venom yougive them more leeway, more points to spend on the craft, or something like that.

It's just a vague idea to get around the way those upgrade based racers always end up.

[Lance]

.
hm... on the surface that seems like a good idea; you could have a ship that looked the way you want, but also choose the balance of speed, handling, etc. but if i think about it, i see that those performance characteristics are what create a look in the first place. look at Icaras: it looks like it has insane top speed, light weight, little armour, and slow maneuvering. which is exactly what it has. if you stick with believable in-game physics and illusion of reality, it couldn't have the agility of Pirhana without looking more like a Pirhana, or the heavy shielding of a Qirex without looking more like a Qirex. that's the way things work in real life, and to ignore realistic physics would also take away from the feeling of reality of the game. it just seems easier and more 'real' if you just choose your favourite set of characteristics from a group of ships that were designed to have specific performance specs and to look true to their actual performance character. yes, i know; go ahead and call me a stick-in-the-mud realist
.

[Seek100]

No I'm not going to call you a stick in the mud, though I will call you a realist (feel free to feel insulted or complemented by that as you wish). I would not suggest that you should be able to give a ship looking like a Feisar a stupidly high top speed and no maneouvrability (though it's shape is usually the most aerodynamic).

What I would suggest to sort out this problem is that rather than simply choosing a vehicle shape you like and then allocating points as you please, the player's craft would be altered in appearance as you add points to the different categories, if anyone has played F-Zero GX there's a craft creation thingy where there are a variety of different parts that go to making up the overall craft, each adding to a different attribute. This might work in a wipEout setting, for example a certain wing design that's not very well designed - like that of the Icaras - might be worth only 1 point out of 5, while another may be better designed and give 2/5.

Upon reflection I think the x/5 system of points would have to go as it would mean a very limited number of parts and hence a very limited number of ship designs, maybe something more like a stat being out of 20 or 25 would be better suited to this kind of system.

In any case, as long as sufficient thought went into the designs of the different parts of the ships - i.e. so that they all fit together and don't make a frankenstein's ag-racer, then combined with the class limitations I mentioned in my last post it could possibly work.

[Lance]

.
so you keep the team's colours, but change the team's design philosophy.

-------------

being recognised for one's actual self is neither a compliment nor an insult. no worries

-------------

speaking of aerodynamics, the Pure Piranha looks as though it may have the lowest coefficient of aerodynamic drag of all Wipeout ships in all leagues
.

[Chill]

Well, saying that the console is powerful enough, you have different types of substances to buy from, from regular old rusted copper to slick light-wait strong aluminum. Of course, prices would be at high ranges because of the future it's set in, but the more racing you'd do, the more metals you could buy. Their would be classes in between, so that if you just started out with a crappy design, engine, hardly any experience, and crappy stuff to build it up with, you'd be at the lowest class (determined by set numbers, examples include: stability, turning force, speed, agility, wind resistance, motor technology (designed by yourself), and many other elements of the crafts design. Basically, everything possible. And a perfect craft would be impossible to reach, because their can always be improvements made by others who make patents of inventions online and sell them. I know, it get's way out their, but we're talkn' any console here. Basically, if Wipeout were a seriously good simulation. :wink:
...their's so many awesome ideas to fill in, it's pathetic. :D

[Dogg Thang]

Hmmm... I think I prefer my Wipeout to be a good racer, not a sim. That's just me. That idea sounds too much like hard work to me and all that time I'd be wondering why I'm not racing. It also sounds frustrating because you would always feel like there are better parts you don't have - I would hate ever to think that the reason I can't do well is because I haven't bought the right part. That again leads down the road of games where, if you can't beat a race, you just buy a faster car. As for internet selling of parts? Well, I'm so glad I don't play MMORPGs because that aspect would really bug me.

Maybe as a side project to Wipeout something like that might be interesting but it's certainly way off the direction I'd like to see proper Wipeout go.

[Chill]

Ya, your right. :wink: You win, and I lose. :)

... :lol:

[Purist]

What about a 'Mario Kart' style battle section, ya know, the one with the maze like area and your objective was to shoot-down your opponents? :?

[eLhabib]

wipEout is about speed, so that wouldn't work IMO.

[Purist]

Just as an 'added value' element? - original if nuffin else?!?! :roll:

[Chill]

My opinion is that that wouldn't be very good. Sorry, but anyone who would love Wipeout enough to buy one of the games probably would hate that particular section. :|
Though I've thought about racing through other hovercrafts (traffic) in the future, with futuristic police in other hovercrafts racing after you to take you down. Though this seems to be to much like Need for Speed. :?

[Lance]

''.. I've thought about racing through other hovercrafts (traffic) in the future, with futuristic police in other hovercrafts racing after you to take you down''
sounds more like 'The Fifth Element', starring Bruce Willis
.'

[Seek100]

You were doing good until you mentioned Bruce Willis - why'd you have to drag him into it? j/k :lol:

It does sound like NFS in it's premise, but NFS used to be good, NFS Porsche was one of the best ordinary car racing games I've ever played, even had vaguely proper physics, but since EA have become the evil overlords of the industry they've turned the franchise into a Fast and the Furious clone. They've ruined pretty much every franchise they have in order to make them 'cool'.

[eLhabib]

so true, and I dispise EA for that! the only two good franchises coming from EA lately are SSX and Tiger Woods (and the only reason why Tiger Woods hasn't been made into a pseudo-'cool' game by now is the fact that this sport is so not gangsta that they haven't thought of making it 'cool' yet).

[Lance]

.
Seek100, i compared Chill's remarks on what he was thinking about for a future game to the movie, which by the way already had a game made from it to this very concept. a game which every reviewer said sucked really really bad, like most games made from movies. i was not the one who suggested the game concept, so how was i doing well until i mentioned Bruce Willis?

i used to not be able to stand Bruce Willis, but since then i've seen a couple of 'his' movies which i really liked and liked him in them. so now i have an addition to the group of people whose work i can enjoy. [pretty much always a good thing, that.]
.

[Seek100]

It was only a non-serious joke, Lance (as I pointed out with the 'j/k'). I didn't really intend any deeper meaning in it. I recall that game I think, or certainly a game tied into the movie, but the problem with all these movie-to-game tie-ins is that they're half-arsed. They'll never get the same kind of attention as games like wipEout which is made proffesionally because the movie tie-ins are expected to sell on the strength of the movie. They can suck as long as the fans of the film buy em. I seriously doubt if wipEout ever did an illegal public-road game with the police chasing you like NFS it wouldn't turn out as bad as the Fifth Element game.

O.T. I used to like Bruce Willis, FE was okay but almost all of his recent work has been pretty sucky, Whole Nine Yards was okayish but that was mainly due to Mathew Perry and that chick in it who wanted to be a hit(wo)man.

[Lance]

.
ah, i didn't see the j/k.
though it was still a non-sequitur remark. :D
[hm... i think Lance is one of those have-to-have-the-last-word- people. sad, really] :)

uh.. what was the topic?
.

[Chill]

Ya, that's a lot where I got the idea. :wink: Smart thinkn', Lance. :) You probably related this with another post I had typed up once. :wink: O'course, I was a little kid when that movie was out, so it seemed cool to me. :) Now I watch it and see how corny it is. :lol: I mostly just like the futuristic setting of it, and nothing else. :P
-But I also got the idea from some other clip of another game, though I had never recalled what it was. It seemed to fit so much with Wipeout. Anyway, new ideas include... :?:

[Purist]

Star Wars: Episode 2 (The Clone Wars) where Obi and Ani are chasing after the chic/mutant/changer character, you know where he jumps out through the traffic... a course in a similar style... nice idea?

Bit like Fifth Element or Back to the Future 2... are we on the same page? :roll:

[Chill]

Yep... my hands are all freakn' bloody and twitchy from boxing because the bag gloves are worn out, track sure can get you in good shape for boxing!! 8O Umm, now, about the topic... I think we're getting too close to the idea of the fifth element. We could match Wipeout up with anything. :) Never got into Star Wars, so I really don't know what yer talkn' about. :? But that's alright. :wink: Perhaps a Wipeout that actually changed with the time. So the sun would move, the weather would change, and so on. Or just choose between choosing to pick a certain weather scheme and time of day-night, or just choose random. I really love those thing's Dogg Thang has done with pure, they're sweet!! Have you seen em?!! 8O Mabye weather that could change between things like that, ya? :roll:

[Purist]

Sorta use the psp internal clock for real time day/night settings... like animal crossing!

[tapioca]

:idea: I was thinking of transposing Rally Super-Specials into the universe of wipEout.
This could be great fun to race tracks with multiple parallel ways. At least two, just as in rally games, but it would become fantastic with 4. It depends on the number of ships of course, but 4 ships for this particular challenge seems reasonable to me, as it also means running 4 laps/ways to finish the race. Imagine you're racing while seeing your opponents pass next to you or up your head.

In Rally SS challenges, the tracks are kinda flat, but wipEout could be more interesting with some twisted tracks sections, going up and down. Maybe with transparent walls sometimes to help you see the other racers around. The difficulty with SS-tracks is that the more you have opponents, the more you need "parallel ways". Though each way is linked to the others (for exemple if you start race from track 2, after one lap you arrive to track 3, then 4 and 1) every way has to be be almost the same length to keep it challenging, just because it's better to see your opponents regularly on your side to improve your timing. Track 1 with curves and jumps, 2 with straight lines and chicanes (etc…) but every player runs the same total distance after racing the 4 ways.

One point to adapt would be the choice of weapons and bonuses. Some might become useless, for exemple lockable weapons because your opponents should always be "1 lap" ahead, same for rockets, cloak, reflector, and quake would be a nightmare because it would have to run at least for 1 lap to hurt some ship (i let you imagine the wave on the track next to yours after 20 seconds).
Maybe a race-only challenge ?

[Lion]

similar in concept as a game mode... pursuit, like how they do in cycle races at the olympics. but more elaborate than a simple oval. would be kinda cool for multiplayer.

[zargz]

there is a pursuit mode on rollCage2 - on ovals! 8)

[tapioca]

But in WipEout, ovals would be quite boring, right ?
A circuit with many twisted ways sounds better. And 4 players if possible.
Let's call this mode… Über-Specials ! :wink:

[Dogg Thang]

Ah Rollcage, an underrated game. Good stuff indeed.

[tapioca]

For wipeout, I was thinking of someting like this :
http://www.wipeoutzone.com/user_files.php?user_id=866
(the second file called Über-special)

In this case track 1 should be the fastest (more turbo pads and jumps) as it is longer than the others. The shortest track would have more relief then, so that the average lap time is the same for all.

To go further, some sections with opponents running the opposite way would be fantastic (reminds me of the pink prototype track in WO3), or some tunnels with four tight tracks next to each other, or maybe 4 jumps one over another (you could see ships over and under you). Even crazier, some parts where the 4 tracks melt into 1 and a few hundred meters later, the possibility to choose between 1/2/3/4 if you're the leader or some electronic pads that force your ship to switch to the way that is unused by other pilots (like a short autopilot). When you're coming second, you should see one "numbered" pad that is switched off and maybe some kind of force wall to prevent you from choosing this way.
I'm stopping here, or wipeout will come to look like a futuristic pinball !

[eLhabib]

that picture makes my brain go all fuzzy :)

I don't know about this idea... I think it's cooler to race directly against your opponents. You couldn't use any weapons in this mode either...

[zargz]

heh! not bad 8)

[Lance]

.
sounds like you're headed in the same direction Fusion was, but a lot farther. what's next? demolition derby on figure 8 tracks? zooooooooooooommmm BOOOOOOOSSSHHHHHH!
.

[tapioca]

@ eLhabib : about opponents, this is what i though in a first time, until i tried a super-special in a rally game (at this time it was Colin mcRae for PSX). I wouldn't have guessed it could be so thrilling.

However, the use of bonuses specific to this mode might solve the problem. Every defensive weapon should work (mines with 1 lap latency but why not ?), and it might be possible to "throw" a force wall on the 3 other tracks, same for quake, disruption bold…
Only the offensive weapons that need you to aim or lock target would be useless, but everything should work better if the 4 tracks never go to far from each other : you need to see your opponents racing. Maybe with more parallel sections like on the start grid.

I agree this would be a completely different strategy, though.

[tapioca]

Lance, this is why i mentioned futuristic pinballs. Wipeout must be about racing and strategy (I hate Fusion, too).
I'm sure this kind of super-specials would be enjoyable if done with brain. So let's discuss it to find the right way…

[Dogg Thang]

Hmmm, you say WO is about racing and strategy but what you seem to be suggesting is exactly what Lance described. It's like saying "I know WO is about racing and strategy but lets work to find the best way of turning it into a platform game".

Seems to me the thing to do would be to say "I know WO is about racing and strategy" and stop right there.

[Lance]

. the subject of this thread is ''Any ideas for a possible sequel?''.
these things that some of you are suggesting are not sequels, but are different games based on using anti-grav ships instead of cars or bicycles like the games/sports you are copying. neither pinball nor automobile rallys on muddy tracks, nor running in opposite directions in some sort of anti-grav game of ''Chicken'' or demolition derby have anything to do with the character of Wipeout. a Wipeout sequel would be a straight racing game with a weapons mode or a time trial mode, with various challenges based on these. what you should be inventing is new modes based on the fundamental character of the game, such as the zone mode invented in Fusion, the one new thing from that game that really is of Wipeout character. this other stuff you guys have started talking about is just pure crash and bang gimmicks which are clearly uncharacteristic of Wipeout. the one thing you've mentioned in the last page that seems like it could be a worthwhile part of a sequel is pursuit mode, perhaps even some sort of multi-stage pursuit challenge
.

[eLhabib]

word

[tapioca]

My mistake for a few points :

1) when i said "runners in the opposite way", i never meant a possible collision (no thanks…), but just like when you're late and the other ships take a U turn. You just see them, like the Pink prototype in WO3 did. Ok, if you're never late, I am sometimes… It also works when you're the leader.

2) @ DoggThang : the reason i wanted to discuss the concept of super-specials (call it chicken/pursuit if you prefer) is to find the best way to fit in wipeout series. IMO it doesn't fly too far from what one should expect in a wipeout opus. Correct me if i'm wrong but it doesn't sound like a wipeout platformer. No ship in furs, no big brown eyes here. Well, neither crash nor bandicoot :wink:

I don't see the reason why it would be a bad idea to have an eye at other racing genres. When i mention Rally for super-special, maybe Zone Mode was influenced by bobsleigh and dragsters (there's no perfect equivalent, it would be too dangerous in real life). This is exactly why we need to adapt it.
Like, when i say "Rally", i don't need the mud ! :wink:

[eLhabib]

I think what Lance tried to say is that we should try and think of new ideas that fit into the '8 ships on one track with or without weapons, AG-physics, start to finish' - racing game that is wipEout. We're not looking to make wipEout go in a different direction, we're looking to improve what it is without changing the spirit of the game.

Oh, and about that going in the opposite direction when you are far enough ahead (or behind), you can see a lot of that on sol2.

[tapioca]

8 ships ? Zone Mode has only you alone and i didn't hear any complaint…
(Great to know that about Sol 2, I wonder if i'm able to wait until Euro release…)

[Lance]

.
Wipeout is its own genre. if you change it to become a rally of any sort, it ain't Wipeout any more. call me a purist. if you drag in a competition style of any other sort than Wipeout, it isn't Wipeout anymore.

i can see it now: Anti-Grav X-Games. 1080 degree spins off the lip of a half-pipe! See Travis Pastrana make his A-G ship do double backflips in A-G MX!!! Mad Mike Metzger does a Superman no feet no hands no legs no head landing from 900 backspin!!!!!!!!! John Dekka rides the stair rails in A-G Street!!!!!

okay, i can see Street Luge A-G craft with no thrusters racing downhill, but is any or it Wipeout? i suspect not
.

[tapioca]

Allright, let's forget about the word "Rally". Let's act as i never used it. The reason i did was to help people to clearly identify what i'm talking about. For those who ever played this particular challenge in a "la li lu le lo" game (sorry for censorship), i'm sure they understood easily. Lance, have you ever tried Super-special Events ?

I have to say i'm not fond of racing games anymore. Played many in the past few years but wipEout is the only one i'm addicted to. It is more than racing, it's the only game with such a particular atmosphere that you don't get bored even after unlocking everything. Exactly what Gran Turismo lacks. I'll probably buy GT4 someday just because it's visually impressive and gives you the feeling of a real car, but racing GT turns to be so surpriseless…
Ok there are many cars and tracks, but look at the CGintro for example, don't you find the music coming close to bad taste. Seems to me like a caricature… GT1 had something special, but IMO it's disappearing slowly as the series goes on.
Sorry i'm forgetting Burnout. I like it for pure adrenaline (adrenaline is 50% of wipEout) but kinda hate the EA sense of cool. Guess i'm not the only one.

The point is that wipEout has personality. I'm convinced that some kind of super-specials would be a great feature and still make it as a wipeout game. I don't want it to be the only racing mode, just a new challenge. Remember the one Vs one in Fusion, i think they weren't that bad. Why not keep the idea and make it better ?
And Lance, Zone Mode wasn't Wipeout until someone decided to include it. No opponents, no time, no weapons, no bonuses, no full-airbrakes… :wink:
I promise i'll never ask for a DJ-speaker who tells you how good you took the last chicane. Please everybody do the same.

[Chill]

Zone mode somehow doesn't lose the feel of Wipeout, but everything I've read so far doesn't fit Wipeout with me. Sorry to say, but Zone mode takes a particular feeling (adrenaline-speed rush) and gives it a stronger boost. None of this I've read really brings out any particular feeling already in the original Wipeout. The police-chase thingy majigger brings out the feeling of being chased down, pushing you to race at the best of your ability. You can experience this in the original Wipeout (being chased down by other racers), but nothing else really comes out from original Wipeouts for me. Sorry, but that's the way I see how Lance is thinking. If I'm wrong, so be it. :wink:

[tapioca]

OK, I don't really consider super-specials (or "über-specials" as i called it) as beeing a police-chase. I feel like there's been confusion with some posts about Rollcage. Sorry if I've used the word "pursuit" more like a shortcut, because SS-chalenge didn't seem clear in people's mind.
In my mind it sounds more like a mixture between standard race and an enhanced time trial mode, in the case we don't include weapon pads, just because you never race exactly on the same track your opponents do. It's almost impossible unless you race against crap pilots that you ever be able to take 1 minute on them (depending on average laptime).
The feeling would be more like racing against "ghosts" controlled by real people, and not just a replay. Just like a ghost sometimes comes out of sight according to your racing skills, you would only see your opponents from time to time to make a comparison. But unlike a simple time trial, your would know that your opponent(s) might make mistakes, and IMO this is what keeps it challenging and unpredictable. Then perfect for multiplayer.
Racing on ovals or figure 8 tracks wouldn't make any sense. wipEout requires skill and concentration, not endurance.

[Lance]

.
tapioca said: ''Zone Mode wasn't Wipeout until someone decided to include it. No opponents, no time, no weapons, no bonuses, no full-airbrakes?''

it is still about getting the maximum speed possible, and doing so in a very pure way, no gimmicks, pure skill. it is very like time trial, but is measured not by time, but by number of laps survived.

---------------

if i were going to add another racing mode to Wipeout, i'd be inclined to be inspired by automobile hillclimbs. a single run of a long course that does not curve back on itself, but goes from point A to point B, with the object of doing it in the least possible time. the course should be made long enough to be the equivalent of at least 2 laps of distance of a circuit type course, but perhaps not more due to the time required for track design of all that extra road and scenery and the extra memory required, though future hardware may not be too limited in memory so that several long tracks would be possible. these would preferably be completely different courses than the standard circuit type tracks
.

[Colin Berry]

You guys really arent going to be happy if we ever make another one and turn it into a 3D platform game are you :roll:

[eLhabib]

lemme get my pitchfork real quick...

[Lance]

.
what can i say, Colin? some of us are purists
.

[Chill]

Howabout that idea I had about a multi-player Zone mode? You wouldn't be on the same track, but you'd all go at the same time, without knowing each other's current standings until you die, bringing you to the finishing table. It could go something like this:
8th place: Bob - Zone 15
7th place: Ed - Zone 19
6th place: John -Zone 23
5th place: Jerry -Zone 27
4th place: Todd - Zone 32
3rd place: Taylor-Zone 35
2nd place: Sid - Zone 38
1st place: Chill - Last Zone
...ha ha. 8)

[Concept]

This is probably going to be an unpopular idea, but I'd like to see a GTA-styled freeform game in the Wipeout world. I've always thought that Wipeout as a series has a world that deserves to be explored more from the relative limits (and that isn't a criticism) of the racing genre. To use a comparison, I love Panzer Dragoon and Panzer Dragoon Zwei, but Panzer Dragoon Saga took the world of those two games and expanded on it in an entirely different genre to properly flesh it out.

I believe if the resources and the time was permitted, the same could be said for Wipeout. I'd love to see another game of a different genre positioned in the atmosphere, style, or locale of its world.

[Lance]

.
Chill, since someone might max out at zone 30 while someone else kept going till zone 150, what would the zone30 guy have to do to keep himself interested until the next game started? it would be a very long wait. there would be little incentive for anyone except Charlie, Oggob, and Al to play, and probably not enough for them since they would receive no live feedback about what each other was doing, so no feeling of direct competition. one might as well simply post their zone rank in a table on the web. i just don't see any incentive to play zone in the format you suggest.

Concept: well, it's unpopular with me. ;) It wouldn't be a Wipeout game; it would be an entirely different game or games in the same world in which Wipeout exists. a considerable difference. the players inside this game you propose would not even be aware of Wipeout except as a race promo on a video billboard in the background. so this is not a sequel to Wipeout that you're proposing.
.

[Chill]

Lance: Their could be ranks for that kind of thing. Your Zone history on the game determins what others come closest to your skill. Even though it would seem to be just as good to just compete with other's zone skills written out, what happens when players get extremely good at zone mode? And high scores are up in the hundreds? It also feels the best when the format is flexible with time. Everyone you're playing are playing at the same time. This feels as if it brings you closer to the competition. I was just messn' around when i put down the 'Last Zone' thing. But I'm alright with it if this wouldn't work, it was just a thought. :wink:

[Concept]

Lance - It'd still be very much Wipeout in terms of identity.

For one, imagine the open-endedness of the world centered around racing. You'd still have tournaments, single races, time trials and challenges. You'd just have to get to them, negotiate your way in, and deal more with the story side of Wipeout. It'd enable the player the chance to learn more about Wipeout's history in a more direct way, than just reading about it.

Imagine being there during the running of a tournament. As much as I'm not fan of these two games, imagine a hybrid of TOCA Race Driver and NFSU 2 done properly, with the more expansive freeform elements of GTA thrown in the mix - sprinkled with the ingenuity of Wipeout's design, feel and handling system.

The racing elements could still be in there with primary importance, but there'd be a richness and a deviation that wasn't there in the past. I'm not talking about a direct sequel to Pure, but a spin-off sequel that takes the series in a different, yet familiar (on one level) direction.

It'll never happen of course, because GTA freeform games have to be crime centered in near real-life history to be a commercial success. Futuristic abstract style games in that mould have traditionally done poorly (Urban Chaos, Omikron etc.)

[Lance]

.
''It also feels the best when the format is flexible with time.''
what does that mean?

they might be playing at the same time, but with no awareness of what the other people are doing. hence they might as well not be playing at the same time since there would be no direct perception of competition, nothing more concrete than trying to beat a level posted on the web. if you could see other people's ghosts on your track, or at least see what level they were currently on and if they were still racing, that might be different. problem is that the ghosts would tend to interfere with your view of the track. one might better have the solid bounce-offable image of the other competitors' ships racing directly against you. it would be still be a survival mode, but without weapons, based on maintaining enough shield to keep the ship from exploding with one more contact with a wall or another ship. might not be a bad format, but it wouldn't be zone mode anymore. more like weaponless survival challenge. but at least there would be the feel of actual direct competition instead of the emotionally bloodless parallel unseen pilots format.

-------------

Concept, the ''richness and a deviation'' from what was there in the previous games is not what i'm there for; i'm there for the racing. for me, the racing should not be of great or primary importance, it should be the only thing there. this is a personal preference which you clearly do not share. what i am saying is that the other elements of ''richness'' and ''deviation'' are not Wipeout since Wipeout iS racing. the imaginary world in which Wipeout exists is not Wipeout. it is more than Wipeout, but since it is not Wipeout itself, i don't care. i just want to race. i am not interested in the GTA type of play, which is a high action form of role playing game. since i am not even a fan of RPGs, and since it takes away my time from racing, and takes development man-hours and financial investment away from the racing aspect of the game, it becomes a negative element for me and those who share my tastes, though not for other people of different tastes. all that i am saying by this excess of repetition is that most of the proposals i've heard so far are not Wipeout; they are not even racing. any game that has those other types of competition or adventure in them are not sequels to Wipeout; they are some other game that would be a different series. Grand Theft Wipeout is not Wipeout no matter what you call it. Tomb Raider isn't Wipeout either. on the other hand, Destruction Derby Wipeout might a possibility, though i'm not keen on introducing points calculations for determining finishing order for a racing game. i detested Project Gotham Racing/Metropolis Street Racer and its 'kudos' system for that very reason. racing is not about style, that's for figure skating.

the combination of multiple types of game within one giant game could be interesting for those who want to live within a particular fantasy world, but it would be enormously complex and expensive to develop. the likelihood of it being popular enough to sell in huge numbers to repay the expense is not good. it would be tremendously risky, far more than even a typical game that is more focussed on a particular market segment.
.

[Concept]

Just to use the Panzer Dragoon analogy again, you had exactly the shoot-em-up peeps saying the same thing when Azel/Saga came around, and we all know how that turned out (critically speaking).

I agree about the developement being risky for a venture into another genre using Wipeout's world - that's why I said it most likely wouldn't get the go ahead in today's increasingly conservative market. Personally, I still think the potential (and quality of art design) is there to see what else exists within the world that has been built up in Wipeout. The detail in the storyline, backdrops and overall feel for one have always hinted that there's more out there worth exploring in different ways. Although I'd still love a direct racing sequel to Pure too. ;)

Dreams. They're worth having sometimes. :)

[Egg]

. . . and at Studio Liverpool, we don't have the size of teams that the Japanese seem to throw at their projects. GT had close to FIFTY artists for christ's sake !!! Which is why we're more focussed on projects like WipEout and F1, which don't require legions of scriptwriters, producers, tea ladies, professional ass-wipers etc

[Concept]

. . . and at Studio Liverpool, we don't have the size of teams that the Japanese seem to throw at their projects. GT had close to FIFTY artists for christ's sake !!! Which is why we're more focussed on projects like WipEout and F1, which don't require legions of scriptwriters, producers, tea ladies, professional ass-wipers etc

I know. ;)

It's just the fact I think Wipeout's world has more to it than a traditional arcade racing game, and could be captialised on (with brand recognition) to perhaps propel other ideas forward.

I'm not a huge fan of spin-off games, but when I see the cityscapes present in the likes of 2097, 3 and Pure I'm always intrigued as to what exists outside of the confines of the track. The design and detail encourages that. ;)

I wasn't implying something quite on the scale of GTA or an epic adventure... more the style and flavour of a genre that takes the ideas in Wipeout into different territory.

[Egg]

It could be done, but subtly. The game would be designed as a stand-alone RPG ( I use the term advisedly, you all know what I mean ) but without the WipEout name attached.

That way, it could equally be played by non-WpEout fans, but you guys would see the "in-jokes" and enjoy it just the same.

Everyone else would see it as another cool Studio Liverpool product! :)

[Lance]

.
Concept, not all of us know about the Panzer Dragoon thing and how the Azel/Saga thing turned out. maybe everyone but me knows, but i don't. cos i don't care about that type of game, as one can see in my previous remarks. yes, i know that many of you are reeling in shock at my admission that i don't know everything. but there it is, the sad truth.

the world in which Wipeout exists indeed is worth exploring in other ways than the Wipeout racing itself, as you have now said about 3 times, but those ways are not Wipeout and therefore do not belong in ideas for a Wipeout sequel. if you wish to discuss these ideas further, please start a different topic for them so as not to remove focus on the subject of the topic of thiS thread. if i recall correctly, Chill had already started a more general ideas topic elsewhere, and which had no specific focus such as this thread does, but you are free to start a more definite one on your particular ideas if you wish.
.

[Concept]

First of all, I was using Panzer Dragoon (series) as a personal comparison as to how a series can combine multi-genre development during the course of its progression. I wasn't assuming everyone knew about it. By your rationale, is it that comparisons and contrasts have to be automatically evident for everyone's knowledge for them to be worthy? (Which is in itself an impossible task considering I'm not a mind reader).

Secondly, Purist stated in his original post about ideas for new concepts in a possible sequel. Which is exactly what I've stated in this thread - another possible design concept for the series to take.

Is this thread not for talking about possible new ideas in a sequel? Or is it only for possible new ideas in a single genre? A few possible ideas that sit inside a framework entirely decided by others? As I've already stated, I'm not a mind reader and I merely expressed an alternative opinion about a possible sequel...

I didn't mean to put anyone's nose out of joint - my last intention was to be offensive.

To be blunt, I find your post exactly that, in the sense that you've stated my views aren't welcome in a thread which has so far included a number of wide ranging ideas from a number of sources. I wasn't aware the remit for the discussion of a sequel was strictly defined under set boundaries, especially when those boundaries haven't been made clear they have to be adhered to...

Forget it. I'll leave now.

[Chill]

I guess it's just me who enjoys the thought of playing zone mode at the same time as others. :wink: "Flexible with Time" meaning you can see the other racers' Zone modes as soon as your done, rather that waiting for a day or so to see when the next highest Zone level comes up for you to beat. Also, if you want, your could continue going after those who beat you, and fight to get close. "Flexible with time" means that you get faster feedback of the other players' standings, right after the Zone, and you could go against each other over and over again. It's kinda hard to explain, so I'll just stop here and not continue sounding like an idiot. :) I'm alright with the idea of no real-time zone competition, so that's that. :wink:

[tapioca]

I'm on your side Chill.

One detail i would add to keep your Zone Mode challenging is information about what you can't see : your opponents running at the same time. I don't mean multiple ghosts that could disturb you, but rather on-screen text (for example each time you enter a new zone) that tells you their amount of shield energy, and maybe the zone number they've reached at this exact moment (it could be different of yours at a high speed level), Not to have to much displayed on screen, a simple voice could tell about eliminated contenders.
This should be enough to improve yourself in a race.

And to avoid waiting for the best racer to finish, maybe it could be fun (and a good training) to continue the race virtually with unlimited energy. Not taken into account for the results tables.

[Lance]

.
Concept, the key word is 'sequel', not 'spin-off'.

it is the duty of the moderators to define the limits of the threads.

The only thing that put my ''nose out of joint' is that you continued to repeat the argument in the same terms as though any argument gained or lost validity according to the number of times it is repeated, which it doesn't. You kept forcing me to repeat myself in the same terms because you continued to attempt to discuss your ideas about games other than Wipeout itself, but in the world of Wipeout in a thread that seems, in my judgement, to be inappropriate, even though you are free to start your own topic to discuss your ideas. Why would discussing those ideas in a separate topic be a problem or in any way wrong? I merely wanted to convince you that starting another topic would be better, as i did not want to just heavyhandedly delete your posts. It's a responsibility of the moderators to keep discussions running with the topic rather than against it, but not to crush discussion.

[Chill]

tapioca, you have made some good points (though I've thought of them, I just thought that it would be better if the info was hidden tell the end, so you'd never know tell the end, that way if you made first place, you wouldn't just crash it out and quite. This would cause the others to have to wait anyway, so your idea came out better :wink: ). I really loved the idea of having a free run race while waiting for the others. Racing at the speed you would be if you hadn't lost (the same speed as those still playing). It would still provide skill. Good thinking!! :P

[Colin Berry]

Someone once said, "if you dont evolve you die".


whilst that might not strictly be true for all things, I think games need to evolve just depends on the degree of evolution

[Lance]

.
it's certainly true for videogames [even though the early Wipeouts are still going strong amongst us fanatics ;) ], but playing a game of GTA in between races is not evolution of the races, even though it's a cool idea for some gigantic, all-immersive videogame world that we could live part of our lives in. as part of the evolution of the actual Wipeout game, however, i would like to see some different race modes, though the core of the game should always be SR and TT. other ideas for evolution would also include new track designs and ships. further development in the technology of the Wipeout world's anti-grav would itself probably result in different ship designs. so would an ''aerodynamic shield'' that made fuselage shape entirely free of aerodynamic considerations, though in my opinion that would be a bad thing from an aesthetic point of view. [argh, Fusion Auricom]

other possibilities involve direct online play, which would likely be both possible and good with the next console, but that's been on the general wishlist for a long time.

as you say, there can be too high a degree of evolution for a game to retain its identity. evolution eventually becomes revolution when the character of something has changed to become other than what attracted people to it in the first place.

[perfecide]

I've been skimming this thread and loved every min of it. So on the idea of vs play and online play. There's a new concept in the new Mario Kart GP arcade game of the "sling shot" handicap where the last player gets pulled so to speak closer to the action, so the action never stops.

If this was to be used in future games, and could be adjusted to skill level, I think it would work well in WO because the game uses weapons. Random weapons, that implies the issue of luck in some situations. The game could use the ships that save you when you fall, to drag you into a "safety zone" that is near the current action so you never fall out of the race completely. Great for new players against masters.

[Chill]

I thought these should have been saved also. It seems unrealistic to just be returned to the track by a flying screen. :? Of course they should be a bit faster from Wipeout 1, but not to fast. :wink: Mabye a system where people actually control these "A-G Craft returners", naw, what would they do when no one falls? :lol:

[perfecide]

maybe you could unlock it to use in the game in general for fun.