WTCC, motoGP and F1!!!

[zargz]

anybody in Europe at home right Now look at eurosport they just begun showing the first race for the seasson!!!
anybody going to see the 1st motoGP race this week end??
gotta go! 8)

* Edit > aw! it's just the FIA WTCC Magazine so they show the races shortly anyway it's from Monza! ;)

[Dimension]

Not watched moto GP in a while after I saw valentino rossi was doing the mick doohan and winning everything in sight, as per usual :roll:

[zargz]

last year he changed to yamaha > slower bike ! was a great seasson! ;)

wtcc - ouch missed the 1st race at monza but next, 1st may in france, I won't be missing!
the one after that is on silverstone!! :twisted:

[Dimension]

Did he really? Obvious Rossi was as bored as the rest of us :lol:

[Poopshooter]

can't believe Nicky crashed like that. he might have gotten passed rossi and sete after they bumped if he had hung in there.

first race was Jerez

[Wamdue]

Hehehe, Never watched motogp on the telly but I do know the drivers and just about every track is etched into my mind since I used to play moto gp 1 & 2 on the xbox like crazy. Jerez being a favorite :) Maybe I should start watching hehe, are there any online options to watching the race? downloading a recorded one or perhaps streaming? Dunno if I got access to eurosport when the races are.

[zargz]

yeh you really should! Races are Great!!!
and if you know the tracks and riders it's gonna be even easier!

phwew! almost missed that again > just bought me a new guitar - so exited about it ! :D
right now they are doing their TimeTrails! 8)
so the race is tomorrow! yeah!!!

* Edit > the 3 Races! ;)


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Dimension]

I saw the end of the qualifying session, was surprised Rossi didn't make more of a charge at the end, was expecting to see him on pole, but the second row? :?

[zargz]

Told you - the yama doesn't have the power! but with that skillfull pilot .. sorry Rider ;) should be an interesting race tomorrow!
they also changed the order of the races 1st goes the 250cc then the GP class (up to 1000cc) Then last the 125cc!! 8O
but you know what??! they are actually the most exiting to watch coz there's Alway so cose racing there!
so smart move! 8)

[Dimension]

Here's one i've been wondering, why did they change the league from 500s to "moto GP"? I take it there've undergone some kind of engine power change? :?

[zargz]

from 500cc to 1000cc > My guess is probly to not be worse than the SBK,superbikes - they got only 1 class, all bikes around 1000cc and they do 2 races/ track.
anyway the motoGP circus is ON right now some minutes left of the 125cc warmup then comes 250 RACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8O
:D yeh!!!
oh btw I didn't pay that much attention yesterday but it seems like in the GP class Biaggi (Max) has changed to a Honda !!!!!!!!! (not sure thogh)
Let's see what he can do with that beast!
if it still is the fastest on the circuit 8)
oh! and it seems it's a bit wet!
comentators just said somthing about changed rules for the GP class if a race goes wet > they dont stop the race - riders change bikes or tires instead!!! 8O
COOL! Pitstop in a motobike race! :lol:

fist race was Jerezwas talking about WTCC ;)

*Edit - now is the motoGP warmup :roll:


* EDIT 2 >> GREAT 250 race!!!!! I liked Stoner overtaking de Puniet from the Outside on the last lap before winning on his 2nd race in this class! both Stoner (1st) and Dovizioso(2nd) just came from the 125 class!
Now for the GP class!! 8)

[zargz]

Changed the name of the topic to include F1 as well - it seems it's gonna be a cool seasson > shoemaker isn't that dominating! 8)
right now there's a TT on imola Live !! :D
didn't know about this new rule ( not sure about it ) - they just do One lap!! 8O

[infoxicated]

:?

They've been doing that for a couple of seasons now, and it's almost perfect - a qualifying format just as dull as the racing itself! :D

[zargz]

:D heh! shows you how much attention I been paying to F1 the last couple'f years!
but I like it. 2nd qualifying is tomorrow at 10.00 and the race 14.00 CET!
I'll be looking see if I give it a chance this seasson! ;)

*Edit Hmm! I see there's GP2 (http://www.gp2series.com/en//website/gp2series/values/index.php) race as well tomorrow! was it this thruster was talking about a while ago??!
seems cool! it's on Eurosport tomorrow 2 races from 11.00 CET!

Superbikes at 23.00!! well don't call me tomorrow guys -> I be busy! 8)

[phase 2]

LoL to infoxes coment it can get really boring but I will watch sometimes to see if a seen from road rash will apear I have never seen one. this is how they invented that game uknow one person
wanted to creat a motorcycle game with a little twist so they were watching one of the races one day two of the riders came to close to each other and a punch was throne.
atleased thats the interview I remember reading Hence the birth of the Road Rash series.

[zargz]

2 exellent GP2 races! > with some drama as well !
piquet jr (nr3) nudget out nr2, dont remember the name, on the last lap some turns before the finish line! :mrgreen:
next >> SBK from monza right now, then F1 14.00 hrs cet! 8)

[Dimension]

Anybody watch the F1? I only caught the last few laps but yeesh! Raikkonen was just asking for that! Must be gutting to have a knackered tire tear your wheel off when winning and on the final lap though! Kinda feel sorry for the lunatic :banzai Alonso looks good for this season so far though, dunno if Schumacher'll be able to pull it back with his current form 8O

[infoxicated]

8O

Seen that happening to someone at the start of the season, as soon as they introduced the ridiculous tire rule.

Haven't been watching F1 at all this year, but it was only a matter of time before the tire wear cost someone a race.

// counts down the next two hours until the Iny 500 starts

[Mobius]

Oh, i had watched it up to the last 10 laps then turned off coz i thought it was too boring.

Shame :(

[Lance]

.
Indy: yah, i'll probably be staying here to watch that. a long tradition for me; i used to listen to it on radio with my father for several years before it was ever shown on television. what a difference to be able to actually SEE the race. although it was actually interesting on radio. things are so different now than they were in the late 40s/early 50s. dunno how i would stand not having tv coverage now. Indy is far from my favourite form of racing, but there is a history, a tradition to it. the longest in existence and the greatest in general prestige of any auto race to most Americans. it has been a big deal here for a very long time. though i'd probably get much more fun from watching a hillclimb at Prescott being run with cars from the 30s. :D
.

[zargz]

F1 was good race actually.
There was a similar situation in the 2nd WTCC race today a well :D

Indy is far from my favourite form of racing, but there is a history, a tradition to it. the longest in existence and the greatest in general prestige of any auto race to most Americans. I thought NASCAR was biggest :?
Too bad Kenny Bräck didnt get to finish his comeback race ( IRL )
Go Sweden! 8)

[Lance]

.
NASCAR's high level of popularity nationwide instead of just in the southeast, the region of its origin, is a very recent phenomenon. even so, Indy still has the highest prestige among all individual auto races in America. the F1 GP has never had a lot of popularity. the racing of sports and GT cars has long had the stigma of elitism, since it began in America amongst the rich, which is a negative in a populist country, even though it has mostly been pursued as a sport, in the years after the first few, by middle-class amateurs and professionals. NASCAR is big because the cars are silhouettes of cars that ordinary people can buy, and because the race cars seem relatively simple and cheap and unsophisticated. which is only very partially true, but it gives the racing a populist feel. non-elite, acceptable by an egalitarian society. it helps a lot that the NASCAR marketing organisation is very savvy and effective. the racing is also deliberately kept very close so that individual teams do not gain an insurmountable superiority such as Ferrari recently enjoyed. the regulations are too tight to allow that.
.

[Manic]

Too bad for me then that I'm a bit of an elitist, 'cause I don't like nascar at all. It's too simplistic and does not promote technical development the same way that Formula One racing does.

Even more I dislike general racing events of all kinds for the regulations and restrictions they set for the participants. The car has to be modified this precise way, can't weigh more than this or less than that, you can't use a turbo or a supercharger, yada yada, yada ya... and so on. This hampers performance and inhibits many manufacturers and designers from truly exploiting their real potential. Evolution comes out of competition, but society and racing along with it seems to have forgotten that.

Oh, and by the way my opinion is that North Korea must be destroyed. :P

[Lance]

.
i am also an elitist, but there are certain practical advantages to not allowing totally free competitions. mostly related to expense and time. unlimited use of technology means horrendously long and expensive development, worse than we've seen even in F1. only the very wealthiest, an elite of which i am not a member, would be able to compete effectively without government subsidy. and look what that did to top class racing in the late 30s with a very simple and almost unregulated formula based only on weight [minimum 750 kilograms]. the Germans won almost everything because they had the biggest subsidies, while some participants had no subsidy at all. oddly enough, though, one of the most competitive of the German cars, the Auto Union types C and D were surprisingly uncomplicated, lacking in hi-tech design and materials [thank you Herr Doktor Ingenieur Porsche].
also, a monopoly of winning results due to expensive technical superiority tends to result in boring racing, with 'competitions' becoming mere parades
.

[Manic]

So you know your history...

Did I ever mention time limitations? If a team can't get their **** together in time for the race then of course they should be excluded. That's the only limitation.

Also, the way I see it, the fiercer and harder the competition gets, the more pressure and excitement you get within the sport. And it's not the big money that wins all. Of course you need lots of money to sponsor a team, a fact which allows only the richest to race, even today. But what you need more than money is not ages of research and production, but a vision. A winning idea, a concept which puts you ahead of the competition, and that is not always a stronger engine or lighter body. As you said, technology is not all. You need simplicity as well. In racing, "less is more" is a key rule that goes for nearly every situation.

[Lance]

.
but wouldn't a limitation on time and complexity curtail freedom of technological development? wasn't that one of your original objections to an excess of rules?

it takes time to develop a concept and make it work. it's rare that an idea works the first time. the best i've done with a *cof* 'brilliant' new idea was one test and one correction on a new sorting algorithm, after which it worked completely every time and not just on the first run-through. surprised the hell out of me, that . but that is just a metaphysical machine. producing and testing the mechanical parts for a new physical racing machine is a very much more difficult task. takes lots of time. and money too, of course.

i actually like simpler machines to race than the ones we see in top classes like F1, but the simplicity we see in deliberately simple classes is generally achieved by not allowing development and by implementing a very rigid set of specs. it seems to be that only by allowing everything could we truly find out the possibilities of a type of machinery, such as internal combustion engines, for example. one could simply have no displacement limit, but that would probably produce technically ordinary but very large engines which would not advance designs nor test limits of configuration.

limiting the number of cylinders might move design further in a different direction, although we know from past designs that more complex engines with more cylinders produce more horsepower than can be gotten with say 4 cylinders. 12 has tended to be the most practical upper limit, particularly for unsupercharged engines. supercharging with either direct geared mechanical drive or by turbo drive adds its own complexity, size, weight, and expense, and uses more fuel per hour of racing [which usually means bigger cars or more pitstops, and alters racing strategy] . finding the technological optimum is always the fun challenge, even within a formula.

but back to your concept of time as the only limitation. there is already a time limit for preparation. with several races per season, virtually no development of the currently active design is done, just more tuning to get it to run its best or to come up with a stronger version of a part that failed or somesuch. most development takes place in the off season; would your idea be to place a limit on design and development time during the off-season? or perhaps not allow development except during racing periods? wouldn't one have to make sure that there were not two sections of a team, one which did only new design and development while the other did the actual race prep and tuning? the design team would have all year to do their work unless there were some sort of regulation to prevent it.

simpler vehicles would require less time to develop, so with some enforceable time limit, this might produce some relatively cheaper more practical advances. i'd like to see the result of such a racing format. it would tend to limit full exploration of a technology, though.

well, i am just popping out ideas by babbling. feel free to react or not according to you disposition at the time
.

[zargz]

Today at 20.00 cet is the F1 usaGP! I think it's in mineapolis they use a part ov the Oval!!! 8)
on eurosport at 21.45 cet Champ Cars - from Portland. Live!
btw is Champ Cars same as IRL??! :?

[Dimension]

Cheers Zargz, i didn't know what time that was on, gonna have to try and catch it :)

[phoenixx]

btw is Champ Cars same as IRL??! :?

hi zargz!
no, indy (Indy Racing League) is another class. The USA afford 2 racing classes like F1 - and both had massive financial problems to survive.

[zargz]

So they really can't afford it huh
I wasn't sure coz couple of years ago I heard about a merging .. :roll:

Cheers Zargz, i didn't know what time that was on, gonna have to try and catch it :) Remember 20.00 cet is 21.00 uk ..
.. I think 8O

[Mobius]

It is at 7pm British summer time.

Anyone noticed how Ag-sys/wipeout-esque the livery of BAR Honda team is? The alternate logo they use instead of the lucky strike logo is quite in style also... Well thats my opinion.

[zargz]

Only 6 of 20 cars started!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8O
Less than in the original wo"!!
Looks like a pure race where they've had 2 eliminations!
It's on right now! :|

[Dimension]

Three words: What... the... ****!?

I couldn't believe my eyes, completely unbelievable... :shame <---Everyone in charge of anything in F1 right now! I am honestly gobsmacked, what a farse! :|

The dying days of F9000 anyone? :roll:

[infoxicated]

I think it's hilarious! :D

I was driving back down from Scotland, heard it on the radio and cracked up laughing :lol:

[zargz]

Biggest scandal in F1 history! 8O
the commentators said.

[Mobius]

The FIA are secretly Overtel... We could see a new formula soon if this stuff carries on.

I do think however there is a "slight" bias towards ferrari from Mr ecclestone anyway - even tho reneaut are winning

The way they could avoid that problem again is to use anti gravity generators instead of tyres... :P

[lunar]

if the result is just one tyre supplier for F1 it will have been worth it. imo its barmy for a team to spend the millions they do on developing a car - and then for that car to be uncompetitive because a particular track is better suited to a different tyre manufacturer. wtf is that all about anyway? For a driver to beat half the field just because he "uses bridgestones" or whatever is pretty alienating for viewers. come to think of it the whole F1 farrago is pretty alienating. I`m looking forward to the game as hopefully it`ll be much better than reality.

[phoenixx]

I'm a F1 fan... and I couldn't believe that. what do the thousands of american motorsport fans who payed 100 or 150 $ for a ticket feel about that? seems to be better for the F1 to avoid an US grand prix next year.

[Sausehuhn]

Maybe this is/was the reason why the F1 died and WipEout arrived ;)

[phoenixx]

I'm sure we'll have less tire problems

[zargz]

seems to be better for the F1 to avoid an US grand prix next year. or the next 5-10 ! dont think the states will be happy to have F1 there for at least 5 years 8O

Next race is the FrenchGP - Michelins home GP !

who's gonna pay back the spectators? the us ppl that arranged the GP? Michelin? FIA?

I hope next seasson the will be one tyre supplier and it doesn't begin with an 'M' ! :x

hmm .. here (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050620/SPORTS0103/506200369/1055)!!

[Dimension]

Aye, I know i'd be most unimpressed if I were one of the guys who'd payed for that, then again it remains to be seen if anyone will get payed back, the race stil took place, only with not many contenders *shrugs* :roll:

[Dimension]

OK Zargz or whoever, this weekend we've got the Moto GP from Assen and WTCC from Puebla, who's gonna win them? For Moto GP my money's always gotta be on Rossi and with Muller now on the same weight handicap as Priaulx, i'm expecting andy to go all the way in both races, i'll be rooting for him all the way :D Oh andi'm also hoping for a good Superbike race!

[infoxicated]

Don't forget the Sun Trust Indy Challenge at Richmond (http://www.indycar.com/schedule/?event_id=22) this weekend, which should be quite an action packed event if last year is anything to go by. I don't expect anyone to repeat what Dan Wheldon done last year, winning from 20th on the grid, but it's usually a race where the championship contenders emerge from the pretenders. :)

[zargz]

The GPclass is becoming an anticlimax with rossi winning 5 of 6 races and one 2nd but not 125 and 250.
oh didn't realise there was a wtcc as well Cool! 8)
for the indy race if they don't show it on eurosport - can't see it :|

[Dimension]

Best make that 6 out of 7 :brickwall The 250 race was raaather good though, dunno if i'll watch the 125s though.

[zargz]

Man! Hope you did coz it was the Best race today - they changed leader almost each turn! :D
125 seems to be the most even and exiting class!
GP class was boring today :?

but 250 and 125 made it worth it!

8)

[Dimension]

No, the TV was invaded when I wasn't looking, not been able to see Superpole afterwards either :roll: Oh well, hopefulyl the races tomorrow will be good :)

[zargz]

There'll be both WTCC and SuperBikes! ;)

[Dimension]

Yeah, happy day! :D

[zargz]

AND Champ cars at midnight CET from cleveland(taped - not live)!

1st SuperBikes race is in 45 min!

*preparing brunch to go wth the SB* :D

at 19.00 cet (1hr before wtcc from mexico) it's K-1

phwew! busy day! ;)

[ace-of-spades]

Try and ressurect this topic...

Anyone been watching the Moto GP? Hayden to win the series? I doubt it on his current performance...

I have dabbled in British Superbikes, but i doubt anyone out of Britain really knows that series.