Pure has beaten me.

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, I'm a broken man.

142 Gold medals. Try as I might, I cannot get the gold in the Phantom Classic Tournament or the Ascension Tournament. I have no idea how many times I have tried these and end up with silver every time. Sometimes it's due to a random weapons fire (Manor Top is a write off if you are hit with a weapon at the wrong part of the track) but often it's simply due to me not racing well enough - where I'll do great and smack into a wall on the last lap going from 1st to 6th in an instant. I also find I'm getting stuck in a 5th/6th weapons trap where there is weapons fire and craft ahead and in front and I just can't break free. Not because the AI is just nasty - simply because I haven't quite got the knack.

In many ways it makes me realise that the AI in the first three games was a real cheat - the way they would space out so far was quite unrealistic. It was nice from a racing perspective as you never felt oppressed but it was a cheat nonetheless. The AI in Pure is written much better and, as a result, is tougher.

I am a sad shadow of a man today.

Maybe I'll have a break and play Metal Gear Acid. I've had it since it came out and haven't even put it in my PSP because I was playing Wipeout so much!

[Egg]

The main difference in PurE is that everyone starts on the grid together. It's been a while since I really battered WipEouts 1-3, but I'm sure it cheated and put everyone around the track ahead of you before you started.

That was obviously due to technical limitations on the PS1 ( couldn't display too many ships ), but it made the gameplay very different.

BTW Foxy and COlin - enjoying your champers? :dizzy

[eLhabib]

Maybe I'll have a break and play Metal Gear Acid. I've had it since it came out and haven't even put it in my PSP because I was playing Wipeout so much!

that's the spirit, man! :mr-t

[Concept]

I've not tried Beta or Ascention yet on Phantom. Although I suspect they're going to require lots of luck and lots of skill.

If I had to aim one criticism at Pure then it would be that in the series' highpoints, 2097/XL and Wipeout 3/Special Edition didn't require luck along with skill. If you were good enough then you wouldn't be severly punished by things outside of your control.

Phantom in Pure seems to require two separate things in place to properly succeed.

I'm not going to let Phantom rest though. Not only until the game is complete will I be satisfied.

[Concept]

Just thinking briefly in two areas... frustration could have so easily have been avoided in Phantom.

1) I don't know why the decision was made to allow the CPU to use Quakes. I can't count the amount of times I've been in the lead and been knocked back to 8th (or killed) on the last lap due to another ship using Quake. While I can understand it can help if you're at the back of the pack, more often than not Quake can completely ruin a race, and the championship if points are tight at the top.

And this brings me to my next point:

2) Like 2097/XL, Pure really would have benefitted in terms of easing player frustration if there was a three-life continue option. It can be demoralising to be on the third (out of four) or sixth (out of eighth) race and find you have to start all over again because of a fault that isn't even your own. If you were given the choice of a three-life restart, then this would have helped matters immeasurably. Having said that, I do realise it may have hurt the game's longevity, but my answer to that would be is that the longevity seems artificial in places when you're being punished for things you have no control over.

[eLhabib]

The main difference in PurE is that everyone starts on the grid together. It's been a while since I really battered WipEouts 1-3, but I'm sure it cheated and put everyone around the track ahead of you before you started.

well, but it's not entirely fair and even in purE either, or how do you explain the enormous speed boost all the enemy ships have at the start of the first round... it might just be me doing something wrong (but I don't think so), but even when I manage to fly by the whole field right after the GO with the initial speed boost, and even if I fly perfectly hitting all boost pads, the AI will still come and overtake me again (with a rather big surplus of speed, too), and I almost ever fall back into 4th-7th rank again.

not that it bothers me, it has to be this way in order for the field to spread out a bit, but don't say it's perfectly fair this time around :wink:


Like 2097/XL, Pure really would have benefitted in terms of easing player frustration if there was a three-life continue option. It can be demoralising to be on the third (out of four) or sixth (out of eighth) race and find you have to start all over again because of a fault that isn't even your own. If you were given the choice of a three-life restart, then this would have helped matters immeasurably. Having said that, I do realise it may have hurt the game's longevity, but my answer to that would be is that the longevity seems artificial in places when you're being punished for things you have no control over.

actually, I'm really glad the three life system is gone. a real tournament with points for position is much mor realistic and also much more forgiving in my view.

[Concept]

The thing which is irritating me on Phantom is that you're not allowed to get ideas above your station. It's something that happens a lot in Pure.

Whereas skill in earlier Wipeout's would be rewarded through increased positions early on, if you find yourself unexpectedly in first place on the first two laps in the higher speed classes, expect a whole manner of weapons to be thrown at you. Quakes, disruptor bolts, missiles.

It feels as if the whole AI is ganging up together and gunning for you, when you're in a place you're not supposed to be during an early part of the race.

This isn't something that happened in earlier Wipeouts, and while it's there to seemingly ensure races are tight, it can also have the adverse effect of killing off your own competition to it. Another problem is that disruptor bolts generally do serious damage to your ship, yet when you fire back, it barely seems to have an impact on the CPU crafts.

Make no mistake, the AI in Pure is the best seen in any Wipeout game, and for the first three speed classes, it works out great. But there is a side-effect, in that the later aggression can seem to unfairly punish the player later on. It's infuriating to be racing along in a tight pack, only for then to have someone drop a bomb on you from two feet away. There should have been a limitation on the proximity of distance in which bombs are planted immediately in front of the player in my view, along with a restriction on CPU Quake usage in the last two speed classes.

Phantom is infuriatingly tough, and while I enjoy a challenge and it's what I respect about the Wipeout series, the challenge here isn't entirely based on skill. It's based on trial and error, and endurance in parts.

[Concept]

actually, I'm really glad the three life system is gone. a real tournament with points for position is much mor realistic and also much more forgiving in my view.

It may be more realistic, but it certainly isn't forgiving on the player. Either that, or Pure could have had offered the player the ability to save half way through Ascention. Losing the whole tournament on race six or seven based on something that isn't the player's fault is unfair.

[eLhabib]

hm, actually, I haven't had any of these problems yet. when I'm in front, I usually stay in front, unless I fly bad, the weapon usage against me doesn't seem to increase. sure there's gonna be more quakes coming your way, but that's only logic. when you're in, say, 6th position, there's only 2 ships behind you who can hit you with a quake, when you're in first, obviously, there are 7 (most of the time), so quakes are gonna be more frequent.

As for the plasma bolt: maybe I'm just lucky, but I have fired a total of 8 plasmas so far (I'd rather use them for shield energy), and 6 of them have been lethal to the enemy, so I can't really say it's too weak by any means.


It may be more realistic, but it certainly isn't forgiving on the player.
it sure is more forgiving! I could'nt see myself beating phantom beta or ascencion if I had to get gold on every race! I don't wanna be restarting the tournament over and over again because I can't get citta nuova on gold even after 3 tries!

[Concept]

I didn't mention the plasma bolt. It's fine.

The disruptor bolt is the problem, in that I generally end up losing control of my craft, yet the CPU rarely has the same problem.

I'm not needlessly knocking the game, because for the most part, I love it. I just think, as has been pointed out elsewhere, that the mechanics needed to be adjusted slightly to accomodate Phantom. The aggressive nature of the AI from rapier needed to be toned down slightly, there needed to be more options open to the player so they don't end up feeling deflated from being beaten at the last stretch from causes not of their making.

The general concerns surrounding the frame-rate at this speed level aren't my main criticisms. It's the fact that it becomes slightly more weapon mad in Phantom, and you have to on your guard for that aspect, when ideally, I think you should be concentrating fully on the race. To give you an example, it comes as a relief to have finished a race without being shot to pieces on a few courses.

I've also generally encountered the problem of being in possession of a powerful weapon such as Quake, using it, and then being hit by a bomb and a few missles in retaliation. Now, while I applaud the AI's reaction to my actions here, they seem to again gang up. It's as if at times they're racing and fighting against each other, which is fantastically immersive... yet on the flip side, change course and work as a team to batter you down, if like I said, you get ideas above your station.

Using powerful weapons to regain the lead can feel as though its one step forward, two steps back, when you know you're going to get lynched for doing so.

Then again, maybe it's just my bad luck. :)

Let me reiterate, these criticisms don't apply to the whole of Pure - just the slightly unbalanced position I think Phantom is fixed at.

[Concept]

Well, I'm finally past Beta on Phantom now. The bitching shall stop.

I love this game, and even if I still stand by my criticisms of Phantom, there's little to beat the satisfaction of proving your own doubts wrong.

[kaiotheforsaken]

no no no. its not your lousy luck, they A.I. is out for blood, especially if you hurt them to regain the lead. I'm not even at phantom yet and its breaking me lol.

[eLhabib]

you're right. AI is tough in this game. and the disruption bolt really kinda sucks. but when I lose a race, it's mostly my not being able to master the track, and only very few races have been lost due to enemy fire.

[infoxicated]

BTW Foxy and COlin - enjoying your champers? :dizzyI didn't get any today (guess I'm not high enough up the food chain for that kind of thing), but I have had some champers tonight after getting the keys for our new house. :D

[Lance]

.
[wonders what ''champers'' might be]
.

[Concept]

Champagne, presumably. ;)

[Asche XL]

If I had to aim one criticism at Pure then it would be that in the series' highpoints, 2097/XL and Wipeout 3/Special Edition didn't require luck along with skill. If you were good enough then you wouldn't be severly punished by things outside of your control.


Completely agree, the game requires just as much luck as it does skill. In pure it's like ok I have all perfect laps but i hope.....


And, at the start of every race all the ships fly past you, why are they so much faster? Even during a race, i'll be pirana and feisar will soar by, I think someone straps weights to the bottom of my ships before each race.

[Dogg Thang]

From a 'feeling fair' point of view the only weapon I really have a problem with getting hit with is the disruptor bolt and only because the effect isn't cut and dry - by the time you work out what's happening it is usually too late. I feel the effects should have been colour coded so at least you can react accordingly.

And, yes, Concept is right - one bit of bad luck in Pure can destroy a perfectly handled race and it can be very frustrating. Especially, as he pointed out, that the effects your weapons have on the enemy craft don't seem to equate with the effects they have on yours. In Phantom, I have found the only real weapon that can give you an advantage is the quake.

But then much of this is personal choice - I have always preferred the racing element of WO to the weapons battles. That could be very different for other people.

The flip side of this is that the AI does react much more how I think that real racers would - they will try to take out the leader.

By the way, I didn't give up and got Ascension earlier so I only have one more gold to get!

[Lance]

.
Piranha has low thrust/acceleration like the W3O Icaras while Feisar has high thrust/acceleration? [which seems counterintuitive to me because in real life it requires high thrust to obtain high speed and Piranha is definitely high speed]
.

[Seek100]

Not really, it's like gear ratios, set them wide and you'll have a high top speed but lousy acceleration, set them close and you accelerate fast but hit a much lower top speed - it's a simple tradeoff. The thing at the start of WO races isn't about picking a fast ship, it's a game balance thing that has always been there to ensure that you can't ever get the lead straight away, the enemy ships rocket away into the distance far faster than they really could be capable of going then once out of sight they go at their normal speed and you can catch up. This is very noticeable on 2097 and w3o.

[kaiotheforsaken]

i've mastered several tracks with 2 ships, and even with my no wall hitting and boosting skills, more often than not (especially this morning) some well placed rockets, disruption bomb, or plasma, ended my happy time aweful quick lol.

[Lance]

.
[takes thruster mechanism apart; finds no gears] in Wipeout, it's about maximum thrust applied directly against the mass of the ship. maximum thrust means maximum speed aNd maximum acceleration if weight and aerodynamic resistance of the compared ships are equal, and probably if they are reasonably near equal. racing formulas often balance one element against another in a complex mathematical relationship, so perhaps power is balanced in thruster versus shields, with the same power source energising both? 2097/XL Piranha clearly ignores any such formula since it has maximum everything.

------------------

in W3O, one can blast past the entire field in very short order. at least in the lower classes; takes a bit longer in Phantom
.

[TMoney]

Phantom is consistently beatable.... less complaining more practice :P

Doesn't anybody remember there were 8 bit games that were 20X harder to beat than this one -

Asfar as today's standards go, yeah it's hard....

....but very beatable.

[Dogg Thang]

Well I did it - got my last gold. I now have Purist raiting.

As far as being hard goes - I don't think anyone here has a problem with it being hard. I certainly wouldn't want it easy. Yep there were far harder 8 bit games (my claim to fame is that I finished Jet Set Willy 2 - now I'm showing my age!).

And, to be honest, I felt that the times needed for Time Trial golds may have actually been too forgiving but that's a different issue! No, it's not about being hard - it's the age old gaming issue where it is fine to lose as long as the player feels like it is his/her fault. It's like, say, the old platformers like Prince of Persia (the original). You would make it to an area and fall into spikes. Yep, you'd be annoyed but, next time, you would jump the spikes. You learn and make progress. If you fall into the spikes again you feel like it is your fault and you must try harder.

But, if those spikes appear completely randomly and will kill you instantly, then you can learn nothing. You can't prepare for where they will appear and so getting to the end of a level requires simple luck that they won't appear right under you.

Does that make sense when applied to Pure?

All I'm saying is that it isn't about being hard (we didn't have it easy in Rapier WO1) - it's about needing luck more than skill to make it through certain races.

And luck is nowhere near as rewarding.

Having said all of that I just played it constantly to the end and if this is the worst gripe I can up with then everything is pretty amazing! Pure is one of the best games I've played in years.

[eLhabib]

Doesn't anybody remember there were 8 bit games that were 20X harder to beat than this one

how true, man, how very true

[zargz]

in W3O, one can blast past the entire field in very short order. at least in the lower classes; takes a bit longer in Phantomand that is coz of the hyperthrust > no such thing in pure 8)

Does that make sense when applied to Pure? nop > this is no platform and if a race would be exactly the same every single time you race it it would be extremely boring :?

Concept: Every single complaint you have about the game > for me they sound like wipEout Heaven!!! :D

Don't have the game yet and won't have it for a while still but when in problem on a track in Any wipEout I just go to Time Trial .. for a good while!! :lol:
as I've heard for pure it's a good idea to use the Square button aLot!


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Dogg Thang]

when in problem on a track in Any wipEout I just go to Time Trial

Then you're missing the point here (which is also how you missed the point of my analogy) - practicing in time trial to the point of perfection in Pure will not lend much assistance in the main races because, as Concept and I pointed out, what you actually need is luck.

In terms of handling of the tracks, except for the odd jumpy bit (like coming out of the cave in Sebenco), there isn't much of a jump from Rapier to Phantom - certainly not compared with the skill jump from Flash to Rapier. If you get all golds in Rapier, it takes little time to adjust to Phantom and you will most likely get gold in the time trials on your first race except for a couple of tracks.

What does change, as a result of the physics and the speed is that one weapon (just one) can take you out of the race no matter how well you handled it. One weapon. This was the point of the analogy that you missed - it's not just that the random element stirs things up and adds a challenge. It is the racing equivalent of instant death on a platformer, except is is entirely down to luck. It's not about hard or easy, it's about luck and instant death.

I like the weapons. I have no issue with them when they are used to stir things up and add an element of chance into the race. But in Pure, that element of chance is like Russian Roulette.

Like I said, I have done it now and got every gold medal in the game but what this comes down to is I didn't get the satisfaction in Phantom that I got in the earlier classes because it is hard to feel you earned your victories when chance played such a large part in it. As a result, for repeated play I am much more likely to get enjoyment from the time trials, or going back to Rapier or even Flash. It's a small issue in an otherwise fantastic game.

[Colin Berry]

BTW Foxy and COlin - enjoying your champers? :dizzyI didn't get any today (guess I'm not high enough up the food chain for that kind of thing), but I have had some champers tonight after getting the keys for our new house. :D

That reminds me mine is in Daves car

[zargz]

Dogg Thang: well, I do belive knowing every inch of the track helps in SingleRace and it's true even for the rest of the wipEouts
but as I said above I dont have pure yet and I do trust you and Concept when you say that pure, or at least phantom, is harder! :)
reminds me > yesterday I was looking at one of the two 4hrs tapes we recorded at stins(2-3players wo3SE)
and I did get Eliminated by quakes and plasmabolts many times, as did stin and cooL > here as you know a plasma hit brings instant elimination! 8O
One race I remember that stin eliminated me with a quake on the 1st lap and cooL on the last with a plasma bolt!
also when i got mines and stin or cooL right behind or if close infront i boost get just infront and drop them 'In Your Face'!
that's ofcource what they did to me as well :evil:
so what does this tell me about pure? > Racing is much more like racing with real people and that for me is Great news!
and if what someone said here is true that the AI 'retaliates' if shot at > WOW !! I just can't wait to play pure!
I'm happy thought that the AI when too far ahead doesn't turn around and sends a Quake as we did many times with stin! ;)

Colin: so what's a champer? > a code word for a psp + pure??! :D


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, you're right Zargz - it is much more like racing with real people. Absolutely. As frustrating as it sometimes can be I can't fault the AI on that. They are far more like real players than any other WO without a doubt. So you should enjoy that!

That's the thing - any issues I have are actually brought about as side effects to real improvements in the game. It's the same with the physics, which is so much more realistic in Pure and I love that.The guy who programmed the physics should be proud of what he has achieved with Pure. I love the fact that weight and gravity plays a real part in the game and it opens up whole new possibilities. For example, in Vineta K, in the open sections I found I could avoid weapons fire in the higher classes by jumping up on the right hand rim of the track. By the time I start losing speed I just hop down and a whole straight warzone section has been avoided. I'm sure more tricks like this will start to pop up as a result of the improved physics.

And you're right - knowing the tracks inside out really helps in the other WO games but that is partly why it can be a shock in Pure when perfect laps aren't enough!

It's really just that I felt some of the elements (weapons, physics and AI) that work together well in the slower classes begin to clash in the higher classes.

I'm really itching for the downloadables to begin now! I popped in Metal Gear Acid eventually and just wanted to go back and play more Wipeout!

[zargz]

you know this just ocurred to me > why don't you try beat phantom again? :D
I remember Rapier was so Hard to beat in wo1!!
the 2nd time was as tough as the 1st but after beating it several times it got easier!
may be it's gonna be the same with phantom in pure ! 8)

:( *to think there are ppl that already completed pure ..* :cry:


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Concept]

As has been stated, this isn't an issue of skill. It's about the unpredicatability/randomness of the CPU aggression, and the fact you need a good dose of luck to stand a chance of gaining 1st place in a number of races on Phantom.

2097/3 (my most played in the series) didn't suffer from this, although like I said, the AI is certainly more entertaining overall if you count the first three speed classes into the equation.

As for my complaints... they're not tradtional criticisms of old Wipeout problems, so I'm not sure what you mean by Wipeout 'heaven'. When the series was at its prime, first and foremost it rewarded skill, not luck, at the highest speed levels.

It comes down to not how much practice you put in, but if you hit the jackpot in not having your race screwed up that slows your craft down to the pace of a slug for 10 seconds, and therefore meaning 1st place is near-to-impossible to recover. On the first two laps this is still possible, but get on to lap 3 on Phantom, and any serious weapons blast can kill your race.

What I would have loved to see as a reward for completing Phantom would be a 'no weapons' option. It would have also helped expand the game's longevity. Five leagues comprised of four normal, and one pure racing tournament would have helped offset some of this frustration too.

[Mobius]

@ zargz

Champers is short for champaigne - oh, and it also called bubbly for that matter. But if it is psp + pure codeword..... :cry:

Anyhoo, I don't have pure but if you are thinking you should've clocked it by now don't worry. i havent got further than 50% completed on any of the wipeouts i have owned.

:roll:

oops...

In the words of hagrid: i don't think i should be saying that :oops:

[zargz]

Concept: in wo3/se > Randomness of the weapon pickups and the autoPilot making the game far too easy to beat
and resulting in AP-fishing = drop every weapon till you get an autocoward, are some of the reasons that I post mainly TimeTrial times on the tables!
Actually the most intense and cool to watch afterwards races we raced with stin were the weapons off, 4 opponents Rapier races!
just your skill, knowledge of the track, a bit blocking your opponent, try to crash him in the wall and the tactical use of hyperthrust and pitlane!!
since stin and I are pretty close matched there were some Awsome races that hopefully I will be able to post here Soon .. I hope !! 8)
those races were alot like todays WTC or NASCAR races. not like IRL coz if they touch there then .. they are toasted !!! 8O
so I agree with you about having a weapons_of_league but I guess it's harder to program an agressive AI with no weapons at all
may be also has to do with the fact that in wo3/se your weapons_off records went righ in your high scores? :? dunno
about the woHeaven > I like that the game is harder and more 'realistic' - that's important to me!
when the opponents can't use sertain weapons the game tastes a bit sour ( and No I dont eat my games :D and apologise to all who likes sour food! ;))
I'm just happy through the series wo feels more and more like playing with real ppl!
and when playing real ppl you Do get eliminated by quakes and plasma bolts > 2097/wo3 link or splitscreen as I didnt play pure yet.
only thing left is for the AI to eliminate eachother or make misstakes driving (like they could drive of the track in WTC for the psx)
here it could be miss a turn a bit and crash in the inner part of the corner since they cant get out in the sand outside the track as in WTC but i gues it's too much to ask ;)
also I'd rather have a challenging game (more difficult) than a walk_through game I beat in a day or two.
a Q for you - did you play a multiplayer game yet? 8O

Mobius: ANY of the wipEouts??!
I almost envy you coz you still have the I_DID_IT part infront of you! 8)
back to the track you go .. now! :twisted:


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Mobius]

I almost envy you coz you still have the I_DID_IT part infront of you! 8)

Eh?

Edit: Note to Lance: that quote is supposed to be there as it is the only line from the post i don't understand. Unless you can reword my post...

[Lance]

.
zargz, my comment about W3O was in response to this comment by Seek100:
''...you can't ever get the lead straight away, the enemy ships rocket away into the distance far faster than they really could be capable of going then once out of sight they go at their normal speed and you can catch up. This is very noticeable on 2097 and w3o.''

Mobius, he means that because you've not completed the games yet, you still have that process to enjoy, but he doesn't since he's completed them already. hence, he 'almost' envies you
.

[Concept]

zargz -Trust me. When you get your hands on Pure and you're continually struggling to get beyond 4th place on Karbonis in Phantom through no fault of your own, your opinion may change. But I understand your comments - in many ways, the AI in Pure is a big improvement to previous Wipeouts, and certainly isn't as aggressive or detrimental to the race format as that found in Fusion. Like Dogg Thang though, I have to say it can be really frustrating at the higher speed classes, where traditionally, Wipeout usually shines.

To give you an example, it took me two hours of repeat play to nail Classic tournament on Phantom, and on more than one occasion I only had to win the last race, only to find myself leading, and then shot with a Quake or a missle in reserve from whoever was behind. That may be realistic and representative of human-like behaviour, but it doesn't necessarily equate to fun, or a skill-based challenge. Like I said, you expect to get shot down in races when you lead, and when you don't, you're pleasantly surprised.

Thankfully though, I've completed Ascention and Classic mode in Phantom today, and now I only have the time trials to finish off, which are thankfully very enjoyable.

It's a great game, which offers great satisfaction and relief when you eventually succeed. But that isn't to say it isn't infuriating (particularly, as Dogg mentioned, Classic mode), because in places it can feel as though you're battling elements you shouldn't be.

I'm glad I know I've got the game (likely) nailed now though. It has been a fantastic experience overall.

[zargz]

2 hrs! wow! that goes as frustrating in my book too! and Congrats for beating the game 8)
do try beat phantom again and again amd let us know if it gets easier! that's if you have the energy to do so.
Mobius: as Lance said - when you beat the Game and scream out of the top of your lugns 'Ya-taaa' > jap for 'I did it'! That's a Great Moment!


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Mobius]

Heh, can't wait :)

[zargz]

in Yodas words: Don't try - Do! http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/sef.gif << (no smiley of yoda so sephiroth will have to do ;))

[Leftism]

I'm scared of Wipeout Pure and I haven't even played it yet. It's the game that will defeat me before I've tried.

If at first you don't succeed then give up and do something easier.

[rejj]

The quote is "Do, or do not. There is no try" ;)

[zargz]

yet another starWars freek revealed! :P

[lunar]

Leftism: I have always found Wipeout slightly scary. That`s why I love it, maybe. 8)

[Space Cowboy]

Its a great game, infuriating in parts but hugely enjoyable :)
I take back what i said about the airbrakes in previous posts, the laws of physics dictate that as the velocity of a bodty increases so does the drag produced by the increase in surface area provided by the airbrakes, hence the brakes arent as effective in the lower speed classes. Now that Ive had adequate experience in the higher classes I have noticed a considerable increase in the braking effect. :)

It's all good :wink:

Being a physicist i should have realised that from the start, but one does not assume that games take such subtleties of nature into account. :oops:

[Chill]

I'm scared of Wipeout Pure and I haven't even played it yet. It's the game that will defeat me before I've tried.
If at first you don't succeed then give up and do something easier.
Man oh man!! 8O I have a lot more fun getting better at something that's hard than something that's easy!! :wink: And then when I do get at good at something that's hard to do, I can then always have fun with it, because it doesn't really lack many slow points. When playing Phantom on Wipeout 3, I'm always having fun with it, because it's so full of constant skill: the more buttons you have to push, the higher your heart-rate increases, and the funner it gets!! :roll: Trust me, without the work of skill and heart rushes, I wouldn't like Wipeout as much. :mrgreen:

[Concept]

It may be my imagination, but I'm not sure if Phantom on Pure is fast as it is in 2097 or 3. It's still damn bloody fast, but it seems equivalent to 2097's Rapier level.

I partly take away my complaints about Phantom. In the races it can be irritating, but on free play and time trial, it clicks into place very well.

[Space Cowboy]

I think they are the modes Im going to really enjoy on the higher classes :)

[Dogg Thang]

Yep, time trial is a joy on the higher classes. And zone mode will obviously offer endless fun (the zone tracks are beautifully designed specifically for the mode).

[Concept]

I'm actually a big fan of the abstract aesthetic in Pure during the Zone and Classic modes. They remind me of slightly souped up, hyper versions of Rez. I'm not sure if they're using high-dynamic range lighting, but in particular, Zone mode has these very bright hues that merge in together to create a vivid appearance. It's similar to the main tracks, when as you race out of them, the hues from outside look overly bright, mimicing the adjustment your eyes would have in real-life in the same position.

They're very subtle effects, and the game is littered with them. Have any of you, stopped to fly around the tracks at your own leisure? The detail is mind boggling in parts... there are ships, birds, cars on distant motorways, hundreds of moving billboards, flashing lights... the detail packed into the game which you don't notice during the races borders on the obsessive in terms of the intricacy.

[eLhabib]

I have done that actually, and all the tracks are really stuffed with little gimmicks and effects, except for sol2, but that one is cool in its own way. Blueridge and Sinucit in particular are a real joy to fly by at slow speeds just to check out the atmosphere.

[Dogg Thang]

Heh, it makes me feel a little more sane that I'm not the only person who has done that. My favourite track to amble around is the third track (after Modesto). The name of it escapes me at the moment but the detail is wonderful.

[Concept]

Chenghou Project?

That's my current favourite track.

[Dogg Thang]

That's the one! Great track.

[G'Kyl]

I probably like the almost plain white second zone track, the one with all the blooming, most. It's almost like from another world. From the "normal" courses, I'd have to say SOL2 is my favourite. It's extravagant simplicity really makes it stand out from the rest. What's intersting is how much the fourth track (I have music running from the PSP at the moment, so I can't look up its name ;) ) reminds me of Valpariso. The track design and the colours are almost identical.

Ben

[Concept]

Blue Ridge reminds me of Wipeout's Karbonis V (the original, not the modified Pure version) in terms of its atmosphere and how it looks.

Sol 2 is a good track to chill out on due the fact it's extremely fast, and a non-traditional Wipeout circuit in terms of design.

Out of the standard courses, I'd say it's probably the one closest to a zone track.

Does Sinuit remind anyone else of Gare D'Europa? I don't mean in terms of track design (they're completely different), but in terms of atmosphere.

[yawnstretch]

Sol 2 does have stuff happening in the background! Airships up above, what looks like aeroplanes from time to time far below and the 3D effect of the clouds is FANFreakingTASTIC.

Love the chance glimpse of mountain ranges too...

Has anyone flown around backwards? You see even more then! The little details really add to the effect. The immersion is wonderful when thought and consideration go into the details - if this stuff had simply been thrown in willy-nilly everything would look cluttered and awful. Pure Refreshment.

Im going back to play

[Space Cowboy]

The atmosphere in Sol 2 is amazing! That lovely blue sky, the moon and the stars, the lovely curving straights and gorgeous white clouds. :D Definitely one of my favourite Wipeout tracks ever. :D

[lunar]

Does Sinuit remind anyone else of Gare D'Europa?

It actually reminds me quite strongly of another night-time rainy track in Extreme G3. The overall track concepts are similar, and some of the sweeping uphill curves are similar too. The likenesses end there though.

On the subject of Sinucit - hands up who enjoyed their first go on it by hitting the first speed pad and flying straight down the big hole? :oops: Nice track design.... :twisted: :wink:

[Chill]

The atmosphere in Sol 2 is amazing! That lovely blue sky, the moon and the stars, the lovely curving straights and gorgeous white clouds. :D Definitely one of my favourite Wipeout tracks ever. :D
What would you think about a track like this, but in the thunder and rain. If thunder strikes, little robots could pop up and repair the track or something like that. And it could rain, man, I can almost feel it. 8O

[Dogg Thang]

Well I was just saying in another thread how I'd love to see this track at night. Not sure about your lightning idea though. Wouldn't it just be frustrating if you hit a section of damaged track?

[Chill]

Ideas could take place of this, like a magnetic surface underneath the track that would fly under the broken section by itself, it would rise up from the earth's surface extremely fast, or some other idea. :wink: The only catch: you have no walls to keep you on track!! :D
Edit: I meant section instead of suction, sorry lance. :lol: If you still don't understand, I'll try my best to reword it. :wink:

[Lance]

.
say what?
.

edit: i understood what word you meant; it was everything else that didn't make sense. and still doesn' t. for example: '' a magnetic surface underneath the track that would fly under the broken section by itself.''
the ships are suppOsed to fly; but now you have pieces of anti-grav track flying too? has it occurred to you that the sheer momentum of the high-speed racers would carry them right over a gap long before they ever dropped to the surface? they already do so in some of the Wipeout tracks from WO1 on through.
likewise, since lightning does not generally seem to do damage to roads because they do not have any outstanding structures to which lightning would be attracted, that would probably not be a problem. Sol 2 presents a special case, in that it is up in the clouds, but in that case the lightning is going to hit the structures from which the track is suspended, since it is those structures which have salients, projecting parts that stand out from the rest. the surface of the track would be pretty much immune to strikes.

the anti-grav platforms that support the track would probably trail ground wires to the planetary surface so as to let the electrical force of the lightning bypass the structure. this would be much cheaper, simpler, and more practical than the overly complex and unlikely-to-work scheme you proposed.

[Wamdue]

Ive had 2 days of playtime with Wipeout Pure now, aside from it being the best looking wipeout yet its amazingly hard. I expected to just glide thru vector,venom.flash,rapier etc.. Im stuck in Flash Beta tournament now. I feel like a newbie again and it feels darn good :D I do get very frustrated when I miss a turn and the whole field is ahead of me.. and somehow, half the field picks up super-bombs and mines and puts my ship to a stop for 5-6secs and ruins my race. Is it just me or does the physics feel closer to WipEout than Wipeout2097/XL? They feel real heavy, when I airbreak in tough corners it puts my ship to a full-stop almost.. How do you guys take corners?

Oh and props to the sound-effect crew for wipeout pure, its excellent sound effects are just as impressive as its graphics.

[lunar]

Yes its a great feeling being a bit crap, isn`t it? The game seems to be a matter of taking the quickest possible line to the next speed up pad. I don`t think the pads have ever been so important as they are in this. I love the way you have to have a strategy to win aswell -unlike in the old games taking the lead does not necessarily mean you`ll stay there. Lots of the tracks seem to end with a really nasty section, where that hard earned gold can just slip out of your grasp. lovely. :D

[Chill]

@ Lance: Ya, a lightning bypass structure would be a lot better. Benjamin's lightning rod would have improved so much, that their would be no worries. Heck, even the crafts could have some small little gizmoes in 'em. :roll:

[Purist]

wamdue/lunar I know JUST what you mean, I have played this thing for MONTHS now and if you leave it just a FEW days you get your ass beaten to a pulp. It cartainly ain't like riding a bike or any other game I've known for that matter... constant practice is needed, regardless of your skill you can't just pick it up and expect to be as good. Staten Island is a case in hand, in Time Trial... IT@S FLIPPIN' ARD :cry: :oops: :? :( :twisted:

[djlucite]

It may be my imagination, but I'm not sure if Phantom on Pure is fast as it is in 2097 or 3. It's still damn bloody fast, but it seems equivalent to 2097's Rapier level.

It's probably the same speed but keep in mind Pure runs at 30 FPS on average as opposed to 2097's 60FPS on the PSX. (or was it 60? AFAIK it was 60...)
Compare Ridge Racers side-by-side to Pure and you'll see the difference between 60 and 30 FPS.

(Pure's obviously the better game, though...:P)

Also, on the AI, I heard that it's "rubber-band" style. No matter how fast you get or how far ahead you get of the pack, they will always catch up and give you a run for your money. NFS Underground (not rivals, I haven't played it) was like this: I did an experiment and hacked my savegame so that I started the very first race with a Skyline, fully maxed out spec-wise (0-60 in 3 secs.), and raced against stock civics and the like. I was cruising along at 150+ when a seemingly benign 240 passes me. On the FIRST RACE IN THE GAME, with a maxed out car.
Friggin' AI...lol

[Chill]

Hey!! Welcome to the Zone!! :D Wipeout Pure probably does cheat this way, but I guess you could always hook up online for more modest competition when the site opens up. I guess it can certainly get you ready for the real people. :P

[djlucite]

:P I've been playing through Xlink Kai for a bit and boy is it fun. Too bad it only supports 1v1...

I got extremely lucky and landed a quake/plasma combo on some poor dude once, lol. That was pretty funny, actually :D

And thank you, glad to be here. I pretty much bought a PSP for this game, and it was a damn good buy!! haha.

[Purist]

Xlink Kai???
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Dogg Thang, ever get those 143rd and 144th medals?

I'm workin on 151st! :wink:

[lunar]

welcome to WZ, djlucite

Sometimes the AI slows down to let you catch up too. It has to do that. With all these weapons in Pure there has to be some "adjustment" of AI performance to keep the game interesting and to make sure you`re not on your own too often for long periods of races. Its all done quite well imo - and in the middle of a race its the last thing I`m worrying about. 8) I don`t think the AI speed cheats - it just improves its performance at the end so that you will lose the race if you make any sort of mistake, but you can win it if you`re fast enough. :D

I aim to get up and running on X-Link too. Shame it only supports 1v1. I thought it would do up to 8 because I was under the impression all it does is fool the PSP into thinking its working on its WLAN, so it should work the same. Is it something to do with X-LInk that stops it supporting more than 2 players?

[Chill]

Ya, and is their anything you know of that could support more than 1v1? To be totally honest, it would definately be way more fun. :roll:


v 8O v

[djlucite]

Actually, I just got a 8 player match going through xlink. Go figure. It was loads of fun, too. Lagging's pretty funny sometimes (annoying all the time)...funny seeing people speeding along then suddenly flying off the map..haha.

And that damn disruption bolt, i swear, they're magnetically attracted to my craft or something. AND I ALWAYS get hit with the reversing ones.

I got a question for you guys, about the PSP in general: When in Ad Hoc mode, is "Automatic" channel different from selecting a channel? Me and my friends all play in Channel 1, since one time our friend couldn't join when he was on "automatic" though all of us were on channel 1. Weird.

[Purist]

Same ere, automatic never works for me, channel 1 is bestist! :D