Pure Phantom issues...

[Dogg Thang]

I'm just trying to get my last batch of golds in Phantom and it's a hell of a challenge! But I'm finding I am not enjoying it as much as Rapier because there seems to be a few issues with Phantom - almost as if the game shouldn't be running that fast. Or am I the only one having these problems?

Firstly the frame rate seems to have become a problem in Phantom. This is especially noticable in Modesto Heights for whatever reason (maybe it's rendering that neon?). It's quite choppy and tough on the eyes. More than that though - there seems to be a strange wobble as if the camera is having a problem. It's not much of a problem in Time Trial mode so it must be the amount happening on screen with the other racers.

Then there seems to be a little bit of a clash between the physics and the speed so that hitting a turn at the wrong angle or getting hit by a rocket can send you upside down or stuck for a while to the side of the track. Getting flipped did happen to me in Rapier once or twice (in Citta Nouva), but it's a fairly regular occurance in Phantom. The problem with it is that one bit of bad luck (getting hit by enemy fire which is beyond your control, can send you from 1st place to 8th - enough to lose a tournament.

I am enjoying the speed but part of me wonders if the optimum speed for Pure is Rapier. I suppose it must be tough to program the entire game for such a range of speeds. Out of curiosity - were certain tracks developed with certain classes in mind? In the earlier classes, for example, I found Blue Ridge to be quite tough. In the later classes I can breeze through it but Citta Nouva becomes the real challenge. Is this because they were deveoped with different speeds in mind?

[eLhabib]

you're right, I was thinking the same thing. some tracks really do cause problems, even for the AI, on ohantom, and some even on rapier. have you ever tried using the autopilot in the corscrew of citta nuova at rapier or phantom speed? it's the worst thing you can do, for the autopilot is unable to adjust his pitch to the track at these speeds, and almost everytime I used it there, my autopilot would hit a sign above the track or even fly off! To me it seems that the tracks are layouted for flash speed, that's why it feels so awkward at vector speed, and so hard on phantom. Personally, I enjoy flash speed the most, as it just feels right and comfortable.

[def]

I dunno, i might have to disagree with you guys, ive filpped a couple times on phantom, but i play it alot. After a while you start to pick up on the situations that could lead to a flip and figure out how to prevent them. On some tracks this comes in the form of taking an alternate line and others just trying to stay as low to the track as possible. When you start playing phantom your gonna flip a couple times, but keep playing and you can work out a decent strategy, even for citta nuova.

eLhabib: Ive only had trouble with my autopilot not kicking in right off the bat in the chicane section of citta nuova, it usualy works ok for me, its the exit that is the rough part.

[Space Cowboy]

Its always been the case with wipeout games, that some tracks are playable to a greater degree with differing classes. designing a track that is compatible for ALL speed classes would mean making design sacrifices and reducing the overall quality of the game.

[Dogg Thang]

Yes, I'm sure getting a track working for all classes must be tough. Def, in the snow track do you not find yourself coming out of that tunnel sideways even at normal speed (without boost)? The difference between that track in Rapier and in Phantom is huge. More so than Citta Nouva. Again, the autopilot in that snow track can sabotage the race - it can get round that first hairpin beautifully but then throws you into a wall at the little jump afterwards. Actually that track also has real frame problems in Phantom which I think is because the enemies seem to bunch together in that one for whatever reason.

Another thing I find in Phantom is that, because you get air from the tiniest bumps, even when you think you are on the ground the game thinks otherwise and a little left, right, left action can get you barrel rolling when you don't want to. Being so close to the ground means it won't complete so you don't get a speed boost but you do lose a nice chunk of energy.

Still, despite that, I'm getting through it (only three golds left in the game I think), but I'm looking forward to finishing it so I can go back to Rapier.

[def]

Yea, you will always come out of the tunnel at sebenco ( the snow track ) a bit dazed but if you enter that right turn a little wider than usual and pull the nose down you wont get sideways enough to flip. sebenco and citta nuova were the two tracks that i flipped on. I dont think they should have slowed it down any, it is just harder to get the ship to do what you want at high speeds which seems to make sense. I would agree that rapier is really fun but phantom is hard, and its only fitting that the end of any game be hard.

btw, what ship are you using? have you tried using any other craft?

[Dogg Thang]

For the races I'm mostly using Harimau. It has good handling without the tendency to blow that the Zone ship has. I used the Zone for the Phantom Time Trials and didn't have any problems with those - it seems I only have trouble when there are firefights going on around me! Actually it's also Sebenco and Citta Nuova that seem to get the wars going on. Whatever way the AI react to those tracks, they seem to bunch up a lot causing serious destruction. It's really nasty when you think you have just taken a corner beautifully only to get hit with a bomb, plasma and quake all at once and have to watch your ship explode.

What ship would you recommend? What do you use in Phantom?

[def]

*def points at his avatar*
give the qirex a try, its a pretty solid all-arounder. Its a little bit wider than the harimau, that might help out a little in the flipping department. The qirex also has pretty good shields so it works rather well for the tournaments. goodluck, later.

[Dogg Thang]

Cool, I'll try Qirex and see if it helps. Thanks for the advice!

I wonder if I'm alone in thinking that the weapons should have been toned down in the higher classes to account for the change in physics? I love weapons in Wipeout as they stir things up a bit. One of the reasons they worked in the first three was, in my opinion, down to the very artificial nature of the AI - because they were so spaced out, a weapons hit would only affect your immediate position.

While I'm glad that the improved AI makes it feel more like a real race, the result in the higher classes is that one bad weapons hit can lose you the race. Rather than just stirring things up, random fire (which is totally beyond the players control) can make or break the race. This makes it frustrating rather than difficult and even takes away from the victories - I eventually got my gold in Phantom Citta Nuova simply because I got lucky and wasn't hit with anything serious along the way. It felt like a fluke because, as good as I could handle the track, at any moment a random weapon could fly me off the edge and into 8th place instantly.

In the slower classes, the weapons work much better as they are a hinderance and not a decider but at the fast speeds a missile, quake or bomb in the wrong place is an instant loss and not in the 'fair enough, I need to learn how to do that better' sort of way.

But anyway, I'll continue with Qirex.

[Concept]

I'm on Phantom. The first four tracks aren't too difficult.

It's Karbonis which I'm finding impossible.

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah Karbonis took me a while and, again, I just got lucky with that one. Once you can get gold in time trial, you have to hope for that lucky break. The thing about Karbonis is that, because the track is so open (like all of the classic tracks, but unlike their real counterparts) it is very easy to shoot off the edge. In the single races I actually did that one with the Zone ship and just hoped for lots of shields. I'm still have to get gold in the tournament so I'm going to try Qirex for that.

[Concept]

Yeah. Good points. :)

I've just fluked 1st after about 30 goes in the Medievil ship.

The trick to Modesto I found was to use a turbo right at the last jump, and then glide your ship through the air around the billboard/corner. That usually cuts off about four seconds from whoever is ahead.

Phantom is evil in Pure. Much, much less forgiving than Phantom in either 2097/3. You literally cannot make any mistakes.

[Shem]

Did someone said something about NO SHORTCUTS IN PURE????.....hmmm.....

[infoxicated]

There weren't meant to be, but at Phantom you can cut off parts of some tracks if you get enough air. There's a blatant shortcut built into one of the download tracks, too, so I'll be avoiding that one like the plague.

[pseudonym]

definitely agree about the autopilot. using the autopilot before the jump on modesto heights just throws me into the wall! completely crap.

the autopilot on 2097 was so cool, you could steam it into a wall at the most ridiculous angle, hit autopilot, and you're magically translated to a safe part of the track... The autopilot is the only thing I don't like about this game so far... oh and Aphex Twin's lazy effort.

[Concept]

Did someone said something about NO SHORTCUTS IN PURE????.....hmmm.....

The extended jump at Modesto Heights on Rapier/Phantom isn't a shortcut. It's simply gaining height over an already existing piece of track.