Analog or d-pad?

[Megatron42]

I found that the analog stick was very difficult to use due to ergonomic constraints, so I myself use the d-pad. It seems to work pretty well, but slow turns are obviously annoying.

Is there any way this can be made into a poll? I'm really curious to see what everyone uses.

[eLhabib]

I just plain LOVE the analog nub on the PSP. It feels as if it was made for this game. It's much better than the dualshock's analog sticks, too.

[Lance]

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we tend to disallow polls because they tend to cover questions that have already been done to death, and there tend to be too many of them and often pointless as they were on the old official Fusion board. we don't want the WZ to eVer resemble the old Fusion board. worst forums i ever saw.
.

[yawnstretch]

I still havent fully decided but Im leaning towards Analogue because its nicer to use. The onyl problem I have with analogue is that it seems difficult to pull off the barrel-roll. This may be true of the D-pad too though...

[TMoney]

D-Pad for LIFE.

If you were there since day one on PSOne, and you hated Fusion, you love the d-pad.

Hazaaaa.

[faux]

I felt right at home with the dpad, I haven't given the nub much of a chance

[kaiotheforsaken]

i've just acquired all the old wipeouts (i know, i know) and i play them all an analog, same goes for the PSP i love the analog stick, so much sweeter than the d-pad.

[Chill]

OFF TOPIC:
What do you mean you know, you know? :? What, that you just got the old Wipeouts? If so, hell, I only got fusion at the moment!!! :( U lucky ducky!! :P I finished Wipeout 1 and 3, and never played 2097, xl (xl is shipping to me at the moment), or pure. One thing I would love to do is complete all in order one right after the other without playing any games in between or taking any such breaks. This is one of my goals for the future, and if that means re-complete fusion, I guess that's included. :wink: DAMN!! :evil:
ON TOPIC:
I had used the D-pad, and thought that it was the king's choice, until I began using analogue for fusion (for a more realistic feel), so at the moment, I only use analogue. :wink: It's hard to switch between the two, you can't just switch around each race, it's like re-teaching yourself how to ride a bike all over again!! :x Causes stress and stiff fingers, just like first playing the first version for the first time all over again. :lol:

[rejj]

I always used the analogue in W3SE.. the dpad just didn't feel right. Now with Pure, I started out using the dpad cause the analgoue felt a bit weird... but I've been giving the analogue some time now and I'm getting used to it.

I tihnk I'll end up preferring the analogue in the long run, but I currently still have more control with the dpad (just a time-spent-practicing issue, I'm sure).

I have noticed barrel rolls are a bit harder with the analogue, but I think that is because I'm being sloppier with my input and end up rolling through down instead of doing a clean l,r,l. I have also noticed it is a bit harder to keep straight while changing pitch using analogue, but that is for the same reason.. I'm hitting down-right or down-left instead of straight down. Again, just a practice issue..

[kaiotheforsaken]

i figured i might catch a little flak for only just being able to play the old games. but i am stoked about having them all, and all the games rock.

[eLhabib]

D-Pad for LIFE.

If you were there since day one on PSOne, and you hated Fusion, you love the d-pad.

Hazaaaa.

well I have been there since day one, and I have quite much hated Fusion, but YES, I still play analog :P :wink:

[TMoney]

Meh.

I tried out Analog at the beginning because the slight differences in handling made me thing the d-pad was no longer 'the way'...

Then after being stuck on some flash class races... I got peeved and switched back - then BAM. The easy road to clearing the game completely.

Hey I'm not saying you guys shouldn't use analog. I'm just saying you're wrong ;)

[G'Kyl]

Even though I don't get along with analoge sticks, I love the one from PSP. The D-Pad doesn't even come close to match the precision in control the knob gives you, so I used analog from second one.

Ben

[guinness]

Analog (for the moment), it seems to control a tad tighter in the corners than the d-pad. Just too bad it rather akward to use, Sony/Namco needs to release a mini-Negcon for the PSP :wink: , that would be sweet.

As for the rest of the PSP (and Pure) so far so good for only having the system for less than a day.

[Concept]

D-Pad all the way. I can't get my hands properly used to holding the PSP using the analogue nub - unless I limit airbraking to the right trigger. Which doesn't feel right.

Either my hands are too big, or the nub is too low. In any case, I find the D-pad to be more accurate and precise.

[Thruster2097]

D-pad for me, too.
I have tried loads of different forms of analog, including the nub on the psp. The dpad just feels more controllable, therefore better.

And yes, playing on the PSp hurts my hands too. If they made a PSP in the shape of a PSpad, just with a huge screen in the middle, it would be a lot more ergonomic. But I bet some bright spark over in j-land already has two clip-on handles for the PSP to make it look like a pad, so I'll leave it there.

[Megatron42]

Fair enough about the no-polls thing.

In order to get the right movement on the stick (and still use the triggers), I have to cock back the first knuckle of my thumb to get the end of my thumb on it. Perhaps my hands are too big and my thumb overshoots it? I dunno. Actually I think it's because I prefer to have my thumb located directly downward from the stick, rather than off the side, which is what's required for holding it comfortably on the PSP (enter the riding a bike all over again statement I guess). Well, the dpad works fine for me now, maybe later on down the road I can teach myself the other way.

[Chill]

If they made a PSP in the shape of a PSpad, just with a huge screen in the middle, it would be a lot more ergonomic. But I bet some bright spark over in j-land already has two clip-on handles for the PSP to make it look like a pad, so I'll leave it there.
That's some really good thinkn'!! 8O They should have handle's for the PSP!! :o And then, just mabye, they could think up of some kind of rumble-pack technology, but your probably right, they probably already are starting on something like that. :roll:

[Lance]

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if you think they're having battery-life problems now, just wait till you try to run a rumblepack from the battery. think beyond the first impulse. and the second.
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[Mano]

Would be better to have an extra battery on those handles...

Rumble on handhelds, dont know if its worth it, first its not like in a console, the rumble will rumble the entire thing, screen etc, bit harder to control (and ergonomics isnt the strong point of psp) i imagine it would be a bit uncomfortable to view since the screen would be rumbling too.

Apart from the drainig more juice due to the rumble itself, it would drain even more since it has a laser reader, the movement will make it harder to for the machine to read (apart that this could cause read errors), using more error correction, skip correction/protection etc, which means more battery consumption, etc.

imo not even the handles are worth it unless you plan using them only at home, making a portable device less portable defeats one of its key features.

[Chill]

Oh!!! :o Definately, didn't think of that. :? Though it would be worth it to just buy a handle set for at home, at least that's the way I think. :) Mabye you'll be able to control the PSP wirelessly with the PS3...or not? :wink:

[lunar]

I can`t decide a clear winner, but I`m leaning towards d-pad after playing with analogue from the start and finding it pretty easy to use.

consider these two races on Sebenco Climb, Flash, where I was finding it a bit tricky to get gold:

Race 1 - Analogue: hit about 80% of speed pads, make the barrel roll at the first jump 3/4 times, hit wall about 3 times per lap, finish 4th.

Race 2 - D-pad: hit about 60% of speed pads, make barrel roll twice and on both occasions slam into wall to near-stop, hit other walls about the same amount as other race. Overall race 2 looks like a crummier race but I finish 1st, in a faster time.

The d-pad seems to give less control in some ways, and its harder to make those little adjustments on the straighter bits to line yourself up for boosts or approaching corners, but it gives me faster times. I beat my Vineta K Flash TT analogue time with a d-pad, flying an inferior race, with wall bangs instead of PLs.. :? I cleared Sinucit much more easily with the d-pad, because even though the d-pad control is clumsier I suspect that it causes less slow drifting on the corners, and it may actually make the ship turn more sharply. I can`t make fine adjustments with the d-pad yet, and barrel rolls are patchy to execute and leave me pointing in random directions when I land, but if practice sorts out these two things I`m changing permanently.

don`t know about the zone though - not sure those long sweeping curves will be do-able with the d-pad.

[eLhabib]

I agree that the D-Pad is more accurate and better for competitive times in TT, but for normal races and for multiplayer I use the nub, because it just feels like w'o'' should feel. I really hate that constant tapping on the pad. With the nub, I can rest my thumb on it and just smoothly sweep from one turn to the next.

[G'Kyl]

I don't find the D-Pad more accurate. I am no fan of analoge sticks of whatever kind :), but the psp one is great and it allows for much more precise control over the ship, which let me skip the idea of using the pad right from the start. I am aware, though, that this is just a personal preference of mine. :)

Ben

[Mano]

Lunar, one of the reasons you get a better result in race 2 is because of how the game AI works and how the handicap is elastic, you go fast they catch on you slow down they wait for you... you might make say 3 below par laps in rapier but if you make a good final lap you might even finish first..... basically the AI is frustrating in the sense that you can make a very good race but fail in the last stretch and its byebye gold, BUT you can make crummy first laps, but very good last laps and its gold on pocket.

Im not very fond of this kind of AI, there might be a better solution, however in Phantom for me happens something nice, all ships are relatively easy to overtake if you run a regular ok race, but the 1st position always keeps up, and its a kind of 1 vs 1 match to the end, one mistake tho and finish in the last positions, that kind of adds personality to the races, but like i said im not too fond of how the AI works. if its going to be competitive it should be by racing, not by handicap i dont know if its my perception that is wrong, but i saw handicaps everywhere, from speed to weapons to attack recoveries etc.


Overall its a very good game! dont need to tell the good stuff cause you have already experienced it or read or seen it somewhere else.

I think the game is very good, but it needs a lot of polishing in physics, presentation is very very good, sound effects are good too, music is very very subjective but i like some tracks and some i dont, aphex twin´s track is like an 8bit game :D, liking "Cross the Line" from Elite Force, "Onyx" from Cold Storage, "We Got Juice" from Friendly and some others i dont remember.

Its on the controls and gameplay department that i have some issues, even after you get used to the controls, played on both d-pad and analog, the real downside imo is the responsiveness, the controls take a while to respond specially compared to XL, in XL you steer right and its *right* really fast, in Pure its more like press right and the ship goes -riiiiight-; i dont like the bottoming, pitch could really be better.

before i go on let me say that any negative things you read here doesnt mean that the game is bad, its really good, take this more like a letter of "what i would like in the next version of wipeout"

like i was saying pitch could be better not only because most of us here like it but there are certain problems with some tracks.. best example of this would be Citta Nuova, man this track would be really ace if there was better pitch control, even the AI autopilot have troubles perfecting lines on the curvy section, mostly because there are vertical takes on them, many times has the autopilot crashed with the sign on the entrance to the tunnel. overall this curvy section would be fun if it werent so slow to take (or maybe i should be taking other racing lines i dunno), maybe the pitch was a decision call, but i would rather be flying fast through an object than bottoming and decelerating


One of the TOP LIST problems for me on the game physics is the lack of inertia!!, what happened to the this-thing-is-going-faster-by-the-second feeling?,one of the main speed feeling came from this inertia factor in XL, in Pure everything is an excuse to slow down the ship, the corners, the verticals, remember this things are anti-grav once you leave the floor, friction is a lot less, even if it isnt for the game at least it should be reduced drastically, in XL if you let go off the accelerator/ thruster you still go at almost the same speed for a while, in Pure you let go of the accelerator and is slows down drastically really quick, almost no inertia..

Dont like how the wall scratching is done, shouldnt have slow down

MY GOD THE WEAPONS :D they ruin the racing a bit, too combat oriented, i know one of the inspirations Nick Burcombe had on the original was Mario Kart but this can really be toned down, takes away from the racing. backing after a weapon shouldnt exist in Wipeout, no matter how powerful the weapon is, no complete stops either.

the way the tracks are designed make the weapons cause too much slowdown on the game pace, since they are narrow tracks its easy to get them cluttered, the dodge action can be useful, but not by much and not in a lot of places, i mainly use it to get to the first positions at the start since i turbo start and immediately dodge (double tap left airbrake) and then steer right a bit, thats the best use for dodge in my case.

Ben you said once that the game feels more like Wipeout original rather than XL, and that comment was totally right, i agree with you. the resemblances to XL are mostly cosmetic like weapon fx.

barrel roll is really good! but i think the controls for the barrel roll should be the one used in the dodge (double tap airbrake) and we could spare the dodge :D

Ah, the ones worrying too much about superships.. there arent any on the game, the way the AI acts you may have the same result using ag-sys or zone ship; the experience will be different tho.

[Dogg Thang]

I completely agree about the weapons making you go backwards bit (can't quote, Lance will kill me).

Buuuuut... that's off topic I suppose. Still, I agree. You do bring up the first WO in terms of weapons and Mario Kart but, although rockets were nasty in WO1, you never encountered so many enemies at once so it was never the war zone that Pure can be. I actually liked the balance of weapons in WO1...

[Chill]

Mano, I have nor played the game or have it, but from what I've read, your explanations of problems of the game and how to solve them fit very well with me. You should, literally, be brought up to help design the next Wipeout, seriously. :wink:

[lunar]

Mano, its not just down to the AI making allowances for crap human flying. For me the d-pad is faster in most situations because you can turn more definitely, but the analogue is faster in some places, such as on long straighter sections when you`re trying to make sure you hit all the pads and making small adjustments. I think it would be quickest, for me anyway, to use both, if I could get my head (and thumb) around the idea during a race.

[Colin Berry]

I use the D-pad, cant ever get used to analog things :)

Karl (one of the other designers) uses the analog nub thing, and he's miles better than me
Linky who is also better than me and on the same level as Karl, uses the D-pad

[infoxicated]

I actually think Karl is using some form of mind control, rather than any of the buttons on the console... ;)

[Lance]

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woah! he MUST be good. competition for Arnaud and Al, do you think?
.

[phase 2]

It took a little getting used to but know that I got it down I think the analog is perfect fore PURE

another thing I would like to add is in free race mode I placed faster times using the d-pad in two experament laps my two laps with the analog were definitly much slower.
So thier is definitly a learning curve to the analog but like I sead above^ know that um use to it I have unlocked everything up to the Alpha circuit in the Flash class so far mostly using the Qirex ship! :D I'LL stand by the analog stick.. for know. :roll:

[Lion]

I started out swapping a lot, sometimes mid race
probably easiest to relate it as zones... I like digital zones 1-5, analoge 5-about13, digital again from there on up
with other ships around I'm mainly using digital, partly because I am completely incapable of barrel rolling on analogue
33 golds so far

[wipeoud]

I tried to play WO with dpad for a few days, but isnt my thing. I just dont get the feeling for it. So i keep to analog thats were i feel at home.

Problem is that i cant play wo and wo2097 because of that, have to find a negcon first

[Lance]

.
wipeoud, this topic is about digital or analog on the PSP, not on the other Wipeout games. there is a separate topic for that. the PSP analogue control button is very different from the control sticks on the pads for the earlier games, which is why this separate thread was justified. please keep discussion in this thread about Wipeout Pure
.

[phase 2]

sorry fore the off the topic debate everyone. So as fore Lion to sucesfuly complete an analog barrel roll just get a sucure grip on that analog stick but you gotta keep your PSP screeen steady to aviod unesacarry system shaking and stifly slide the analog stick back and forth rapidly until you find your self in mid barrel roll.

[Lance]

.
you weren't off topic
.

[guillaume]

i need more details :)

Assayeah, i've seen many barrel rolls while in autopilot mode in your videos, so i guess you're using the d-pad for these. But do you switch from the nub just when you have the autopilot activated, or do you always use the d-pad?

It seemed to me you got more precision using the nub, but i've never really tried the d-pad...
What do you guys use and what do you think is best?

[KANDANG]

whichever you're comfortable with I reckon.

I play better with the D-pad

[guillaume]

Allright, i've just realised how much of an ass i am... :frown:
There are already five threads discussing this matter.
I thought i had been reading this forum long enough not to miss them.
Looks like i was wrong.
I won't do it again, i promise! :brickwall

[Asayyeah]

Don't worry Guillaume ;)
I dig that old thread with an interesting post : N°29 : the one from Colin Berry himself :)

I am using Dpad everytime now , i first used the nub but broke it ( read my 'the day my nub died' topic for more description.) And Now i must say Dpad is fast and enough precise for the ships i am using.
Honestly i am not sure 'precision' is the most required qualification for pure best lines & times at least using a fat ship like triakis. What i mean by this ? that didn't sound logical did it ? Whether you get Dpad or Nub ( except for BR with AP easy with dpad) the difference is not here, it mostly depends on how you understand the reaction of your ship, his handling when turning, jumping, airbraking, sideshifting, etc... In fact in pure , the crafts have their own inertia movement ( due mostly on their weight you can really feel it which is so different from the older Wipeout versions.) When you eventually understand that inertia and how to play with you can make a Big step in term of records.

[guillaume]

Thanks for merging my thread, and thanks for the detailled answer!
I'm gonna try the d-pad for a while. And if i'm not better with it, at least my thumb won't hurt if i play more than an hour! :)

[Zerow]

Just the D-pad ATM.

I haven't really given the analogue stick a chance as far as Pure is concerned.

[Asayyeah]

at least my thumb won't hurt if i play more than an hour! :)
Thumb elbow guarantee with nub ( so badly located imo), one other good point that decided me to switch for dpad

[Chill]

Tumb elbow, what the heck does that mean? ;) Ya, it's been all D-pad for me on Pure...

[q_dmc12]

Old school d-pad 8)

[andy]

Definately the D-Pad. I find the analogue is way too pernickerty and fiddley

[Lion]

I find that the analogue nub has too much resistance initially, and by the time I've made it move I have applied enough pressure that it then moves all the way to one of the extremes

[Dominator]

For me it's the analogue stick, only use D-Pad for barrel roll when in autopilot :)

[eLhabib]

I think that the heavier ships are easier to meneuver with the d-pad, and the lighter, more agile ships are more precise with the nub. might just be me though...

[lunar]

I think you could be onto something there, Martin.

[Zerow]

*bump*

I finally got round to trying out the analogue nub for Pure, and after about half an hour of practice, I already prefer it to the D-pad. Pulling off barrel rolls with the nub is nearly effortless for me, and directional input feels more fluid. :D

[DDD113]

I think we need to revive this thread, with all the new pilots around here, I want to hear your comments!

Personally, I used to be a big supporter of the analog stick, it was just more fluid, but I have now transitioned to the D-pad, you just get tighter turns, responsive controls, easy barrel rolls, the whole nine yards. The only place it is a disadvantage is in subtle corners and just the lack of fluid movement. Overall, though, the D-pad is the way to go for me, although it is hard to convert analog to D-pad on WOHD! :D

[Cipher]

*grabs the defibrillators*

Revived it shall be! ~zap~

Analog here, i've tried the d-pad, but boy is it difficult for me to keep controlling my ship if i have to do a roll, the left and right are too far apart for me to do that, the stick i can just wiggle violently back and forth (works most of the time)
so yeah love to the stick over here, i can fly with the d-pad in2097 though, oddly enough, but that has completely different physics, so not really comparable ^^

Cipher

[Dirtbag]

Having played racing games my entire life I could never give up the stick. D-pad just leaves to much room for error and gives the player little to no control in sensitive situations. Like when playing WipEout Pure, using the D-pad I can get to Zone 30'ish, but with a proper Xbox 360 analog stick I can get to 35+.

[AGSys]

Gonna have to go with the D-pad. I've tried using the analog sticks and boy they're hard to get used to. I always mess up the turning and pitching. It's too inaccurate for me personally. The barrel rolling is a completely different story though. It's just so easy to BR, it's crazy. But other than that, there's no way I like the stick. D-pad seems to be so much more responsive to use. The barrel rolling is a bit hard in some situations but eh, you get used to it in most situations.

[Cipher]

oh god, pitch control….. i use the motion sensor for that, can't imagine myself steering and pitching at the same time, i tried, it doesn't work LOL
i'm so glad they gave the option to use motion for that, it's a blessing and for me, the key element to pulling of dem crazy rolls :D

Cipher

[JFthebestJan]

d-pad all the way. i tried all variations, and d-pad only is the best by far for me. i can't do barrelrolls with the stick, but with d-pad you just have to execute the streetfighter movement (half circle back and forth), this way you have the pitching included already ;)

[AGSys]

Oh yeah I've never gotten that. Cipher how is it that you can sit up for such long periods of time and control the pitch with the motion sensor? Doesn't your back get all stiff? Or maybe I'm just missing something lol, idk.

[Cipher]

i play from my desk chair, PS3 works in together with my matrox, which in turn works together with my comp, which then works with my TV, so need to manage my comp and thus end up sitting at my desk :p
No comfy sofa or bed for me (unless i really want to)

and jan, i can't seem to be able to do that, either my d-pad is still stiff from purchase, cuz i never used it, or it simply doesn't work for me, i also tend to miss the buttons completely LOL

Cipher

[Greevb]

For the classics like WipEout, WipEout 3, and WipEout XL I use the D-Pad without a doubt. Also on the PSP versions WipEout Pure and Pulse for the most part I use the D-Pad. Though when playing HD/Fury I usually use the analogue stick and then occasionally use the D-Pad for a barrel roll. Curious to see how the upgraded dual analogue sticks are on the PSVita when I pick that up and a copy of WipEout 2048. I just couldn't stand the short nubby stick on the PSP, but the new analogue looks more precise on the Vita.

[idloveacupoft]

For me I switched from D-pad to analogue a few months back, and I think I prefer analogue now. It makes it easier to control the pitch of the craft I find. Still finding barrel rolling a bit tricky at high speeds with analogue, but in certain ships such as icarus, I find barrel rolling slightly easier. Mirage is my preferred ship though

[Cipher]

oh god, i can't understand how you guys pitch with the analogue, that completely messes up my steering lol
motion sensor for pitch ftw! :D

Cipher

[idloveacupoft]

Urgh. Im awful with motion sensor :( im never aware of how I hold the controller xD

[Greevb]

Lmao I've never even tried the six axis function, always seemed just unnecessary and I'd imagine very hard to use. Though like I said never even turned it on so maybe...

[idloveacupoft]

I used it once for that motion trophy. Really tricky imo. Although tbh, ive never tried just the pitch. Maybe worth a try

[Greevb]

Motion trophy hmm lol, do you have to perfect a lap or finish a race first with it on to get it, or just for using it in general once?

[idloveacupoft]

Its been a while. Just think you need to win a race using full motion controls iirc

[Cipher]

^never happening for me lol, that motion has soooooooooo much latency to it, it's unplayable for me o_O
and cupoft, you can see at your ship how you're holding it ^^

love it, keeps your thumb free to continue steering instead of pulling the stick down and then still wiggling back and forth for rolls and what not :p

Cipher

[idloveacupoft]

You make a fair point cipher. I only jus realised this is a wipeout pure thread xD sorry folks