Track comments...

[Dogg Thang]

Hope it's okay to post this topic on its own - I just felt with all of the 'I got it' threads that specific topics would be lost in one or more of them. If not, please move to the appropriate thread!

Well I love the tracks. I really like that some sections seem to be deliberate nods to previous tracks in both looks and layout. Unfortunately my comments my be a bit confusing as I don't know the names of the tracks yet! There is one that is very reminiscent of Valparaiso from 2097 and it has some great nature sounds to go with it. Actually that's one of my favourite tracks so far as it has a few nice open sections. With a lot of the tracks having buildings all around them, I appreciate the space when I get it! I also love the second track that has the neon signs. Great atmosphere as it feels sort of dirty. Reminds me of a populated Korodera.

I do wish that there had been a few real challenge tracks. Some sort of Pure's Vostok Island. Some track that would give real satisfaction if you can just make it through without looking like an idiot. But all the tracks (especially the cloud one) are very smooth and nice and easy. I do like that for a lot of tracks (the first WO3 track was one of my favourite tracks for that reason) but I would have liked a serious challenge at some point. Me vs the track.

Zone tracks are genius and these are where the smoothness really works.

I was disappointed when I learned that the tron-like tracks were the classic tracks. It's not that I didn't like the look, it's just that I would love to have seen what Studio Liverpool could have done with the look of those tracks, especially taking into account the game time that has passed. Playing them is different - they do look fantastic. No doubt about it. However, no hint of the original look has been retained so some parts don't even feel like the classics (especialy where there would have been a tunnel). Even just a couple of neon buddhas would have done - something to say that these are based on the original tracks. Some hints of the old landmarks. They are great but in some ways I think missed the point of having classic tracks in there. I suspect that this tron-like (unfair to call it that, is there a better name?) map set will be used for downloadable tracks as it is fairly generic. Would I be right?

Anyway, I do love the tracks in Pure. I really like the set landmarks (like the windmills). I'm already getting used to their layouts and that is when I'll really start to love them I thinnk. Great stuff.

[Concept]

Thanks for the impressions. :)

Zoolander mentioned physics but how does the actual feel of the handling pan out? Are we talking more or less back to 2097 style standard?

Are there no difficult tracks at all? Surely things must get tricky at Phantom level design wise?

[def]

The handling works pretty well if you ask me, as someone said in an unrelated post its not really somthing you can compare to the other games. It does feel good though. The tracks arent super hard however on phantom you definately have to pay attention, in the slower classes you usually just have to worry about horizantal control but once you get into rapier and phantom you have to also keep your altatude under control, tracks like citta nuova with its chicane become much more difficult than in slower classes. The game isnt SUPER hard but its a challenge. later.

PS: There are good diagrams of the tracks on the SECA wipeout site here:
http://www.us.playstation.com/Content/OGS/UCUS-98612/Site/

[Dogg Thang]

Well, Zoolander's comments are right but I don't think they are a problem. The handling is not like 2097 although feels much more AG than Fusion ever did. Relating it back to my track comments, the handling actually fits really well with the structure of the tracks - having played it, I have no problem with the handling so far. It does feel like flying.

Hard tracks, well there doesn't seem to be. Now as the speed goes up obviously the easier tracks will become more challenging but there doesn't seem to any track where you really have to learn it well to do a decent lap. Nothing that compares with the last two tracks of 2097. Not even close.

Like I said though - the tracks we have are great, just all a little smooth.

[def]

well, we should have six more tracks by the time all the downloadable stuff is out right? so there is still hope that pure will be able to beat us into submission with a near impossible track ^_^

[Concept]

Cheers for the information guys. Shame about the slightly generous track design (Wipeout 2097's harder tracks are what has kept me hooked on it recently). I did notice in some of the videos I've watched, while not wide to the extent anywhere near seen in Fusion, did seem more spacey compared to the twisting nightmares found in the likes of P-Mar Project and Manor Top in 3.

Still. As Def says... the downloadable tracks should hopefully remedy these issues later down the line. :)

[The Boye]

The handling seems quite strange and nothing like any wipEout before, when you turn, the whole craft shifts to the side with the back end out at an angle like it's oversteering, hiting the airbrakes does the same thing only more extreme with a kill in speed.

I'm still gutted there is little to no control of the pitch as I always liked hitting an apex with the nose at a slight upward angle skimming the edge with the underside.

Doesn't really feel like the wipEouts of yore to me, but it's still a cracking little ludicrous speed racer.

[zargz]

..six more tracks by the time all the downloadable stuff is out right? so there is still hope that pure will be able to beat us into submission with a near impossible track Silverstream would be nice! :D


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Dogg Thang]

Silverstream would be fantastic. Definitely.

[G'Kyl]

If Silverstream were fantastic, then I'm out of superlatives to express my feelings towards a possible Firestar track. :) That is, I'd like it even more to see another incarnation of Velocitar - one of the finest unlockable tracks ever. Give me one of the dreaded Pure superships and let me fly there, and you might never see me again. ;)

Ben

[JABBERJAW]

I'd like velocitar as well, that track would fit in nicely with pure. Terafumos would be awesome

[DJmizuta]

Most of the tracks are fine but a few of them are slighty too bumpie for me...especially when U watch the DEMO the crafts bounce and bang around and it all looks a little crappy and not pleasing to the eye.

And it doesn't help when the A.I. is poor.

[Lance]

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could it be that the pilot [pilots ? ] in the demo are not very good so that may be why the ships bang and bounce around?
how far have you gotten in the game so far?
.

[DJmizuta]

it's nothing to do with me...when U start the game and let the game go into demo mode just checking out the crafts boucing around...it looks terrible.

Plus i know Nick hated it...because a few of the original tracks in Wipeout and 2097 had to be smoothed out many times because he didn't like the crafts boucing and banging around so much.

[Hybrid Divide]

I'd like velocitar as well, that track would fit in nicely with pure. Terafumos would be awesome

That would be extremely awsome indeed.

Sokana wouldn't be too bad either.

[Lance]

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DJmizuta: aha, i thought you had meant the full length race video posted as a sample/demo on a gaming site. my mistake.

next time i see Nick on here, i should ask him about those bumps before the jump at Gare d'Europa. ;)

i see on your profile that you list your occupation as 'Games designer'; did you work on WO2? what sort of work did you do on it?
.

[Mano]

I have just seen a video of Sagarmatha at Rapier speeds on Pure -thanks Def!- and it seems the verticality of the track is lost, the uphill isnt nearly as vertical as the original sagar, and its very plain compared to the original, that however could be due to floatiness tweaks and control as they are reported different from previos wipeouts, older tracks must definitely have been tweaked to acommodate this new physics/movement engine, would have to play the game to make a judgement

Btw... WHERES THE SNOW!!!! ;) would have been nice to have a neon rain or neon snow!!!, in XL the falling snow gave more dramatism to the track

[Axel]

Yeah it had me thinking. How comes they have been no re-done version of any of the WO64 tracks? Cause there were some fantastic tracks in that game. But yes, Velocitor stood out amongst the best. The speed was just too much!!

[The Boye]

Could one of you kind chaps put it up here for download, please?

http://www.yousendit.com/

Just post the link of the file it gives you.

[Dogg Thang]

Put what up for download?

In terms of the WO64 tracks, there seems to be a bit of reluctance to ever bring up the 64 version. I don't know if, after this amount of time, it would have anything to do with the internal politics at the time. I do remember being over in Psygnosis around then and there had been quite a bit of internal trouble over the fact that WO64 had been developed at all - at the time much of their funding was coming from Sony. I never knew the specifics about it (I'm not sure anyone in there did) but it was clear that WO64 was a sore point for some people. Anyway, that's straying from the topic.

Actually what would have been lovely in terms of classic tracks would be to have remixes of classic music tracks to go with them. Imagine a classic version of Korodera and suddenly you realise you're listening to a remix of Cold Comfort. It would bring tears to the eyes.

But actually I should be discussing what is here and not what's not. The more I play, the more I fall in love with these tracks. Each has its own very distinct personality which is just fantastic. That was something I felt was lacking from Fusion and was probably largely down to the multiple routes. Pure's landmarks are gorgeous (that big circle thing in the blue something track is a highlight) and I'm already finding certain sections becoming instinctive based on the landmarks - that to me is one of the signs of a great track. It was always when I knew the tracks inside out that the real fun began in previous Wipeouts, which in a way is why less is more when it comes to WO tracks for me. Too many tracks would have made it very tough to really know them (do I make sense with that?).

What is great is that the tracks in Pure have developed their own 'Pure' personality. Yep, like I said in my first post up there, there are nods to classic tracks all over the place but there is also a very distinct sense of identity with Pure that comes through in the design. It doesn't just lift elements from earlier tracks - it is very much its own game.

Like Infoxicated had said, and Zoolander found out, the tracks get even better on the faster classes. I've only just unlocked Rapier and it's kicking my ass (actually Flash also kicked my ass, I was lucky in the tournaments to have the AI victories spread out between crafts). I feel like a real beginner with Pure and the AI is much more of a challenge, in a very good way. It's all good!

[The Boye]

Put what up for download?


Def's Rapier vid on Sagarmatha.

[Colin Berry]

Some (if not all) of the tracks in Wipeout 64 were the same as the tracks in Wipeout and Wipeout 2097.

All that happened was tracks were taken, reversed or flipped, renamed and decorated with a few other small adjustments for playability.

if you look in the 64 manual you can see that Dyroness is Karbonis and Qoron IV is Altima VII, Klies Bridge is Talons Reach, Sokan was 'based on' Korodera etc

[Dogg Thang]

Wow, I never ever noticed that! Interesting. So the effort to make them look and seem different to the PS1 tracks must have been quite deliberate then. Was that to make it feel like a new Wipeout to the customers or was that in part trying to avoid any problems with Sony that Psygnosis were developing N64 Wipeout?

[Lance]

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probably to get it done faster at lower cost
.

[Dogg Thang]

Oh, I know but then why not use some of the tracks as is rather than dressing them up as new ones?

[Lance]

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probably Nintendo wanted some unique content and look as a selling point to draw buyers to their own version
.

[DJmizuta]

Yeah I remember the artists flipping and reserving some of the tracks that where in Wipeout as well as adding a few little details, this was done because the dev time was kinda short. (6-9 months) I wanted to work on WO64 so much but Tellrian Defence was taking so long to complete. :(

[Dogg Thang]

Actually just on an OT diversion - I remember at around that time there was an arcade version of 2097 in one of the corridors in Psygnosis. Was that ever released?

[The Boye]

I've just spent the last half hour TTing Blue Ridge in Flash with an Assegai. Now that I've gelled with the controls and grafted the track to memory I'm now in total awe at the accuracy of the little analogue hub and the sharpness of the handling.

Blue Ridge is like a cross between Valparaiso and Hi-Fumii, it's a spanking track. The last chicane was catching me all the time no matter what line I held up to it, then I used the double tap, WoW, catch this right and the craft tilts sharply into this sublime offaxis angle, floating beautifully through the chicane avoiding each wall in the process then bounces into a perfect stance for the final straight. Seems the floaty nature we are so used to toying with bursts into life when you add some speed to the craft. Wicked.

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, Blue Ridge is great. The start really looks like a WO3 track, which I love. I can't say it often enough - the tracks really are excellent in Pure.

[DJmizuta]

I don't think wipeout that was in the corridor was ever released...I'm kinda glad it wasn't released because the control was terrible as far as I remember.

[Dogg Thang]

Yeah, the control wasn't great and I remember thinking that the air brakes were where the weapons should have been and vice versa.

[yawnstretch]

Chenghou Project has a lovely moment right after it's double jump that reminds me of Phenitia park in 2097 - basically a lovely big arc with a reservoir-like wall stretched along the right hand side of the track!

The second track (minosta heights or something) feels very original and yet harks back to some sort of wipeout original/bladerunner idea > its a bit like how you imagined the world of wipeout in your mind before you went to sleep at night after first playing the original wipeout - playing wipeout one may not be as appealing anymore (except that it offers negcon, television, original tracks and music).

The first track (with the underwater section) is much easier than the later tracks but it may turn out to be a lap-time addiction for me (the way talon's reach used to be for me). All of the tracks have such fantastic environment action (trains, great building designs, realistic ambient noise) and most importantly of all they are wipeout. I was going to say they feel like wipeout - but the definition bar has been raised in my opinion. Pure gold!