Unlocking items

[JABBERJAW]

What needs to be done to unlock flash, rapier, and phantom?

[Sausehuhn]

I'm not sure, but I think you will find the answers at www.gamespot.com
search for WipEout Pure and take a look at "cheats"

[Lance]

.
lol
Al is the last person to ever need cheats. the very thought of such a thing starts me laughing. he almost certainly wants to know what races have to be won in which venues to get the rewards. [though perhaps that's why you put 'cheats' in quotes, Max?]
.

[G'Kyl]

Lance, cheat pages usually contain all the what-unlocks-what information. :)

Ben

[Lance]

.
shows you how often i look for cheats. :D
.

[silaris]

I believe beating Ascension Tournaments for each class will bring in Flash, Rapier and Phantom. Obtained Flash by beating Venom Ascension.

[Dimension]

are these ascension tournaments opened with the class or do you say have to gold all of the single races first? 8O

[silaris]

you're not required to obtain gold in single races, all you have to do is win the ascension tournaments to obtain the next class, im up to rapier now, just need to beat ascension in Rapier to obtain Phantom, but Rapier is going to take a while to get used to, it's a little hard, but overall, addicting.

Alternate skins for crafts can be obtained after winning the Flash Ascension.

The concept photos are great. You can view photos made by artist by winning golds in races through the progress page.

There are 2 basic stages ( 3 Including Classic tracks) : Alpha, holds the first 4 tracks, Alpha Tournament starts out with these tracks. Beta, holds the next 4 tracks, Beta Tournament starts with these tracks. Ascension Tournament can be obtained by winning Alpha and Beta. Ascension is a combination of both.

Best way to Phantom? win the tournaments, and you don't need a gold to unlock the next step.

[Dimension]

Oh right, so there is a requirement to open the ascension tournaments... Interesting, cheers silaris :)

[BenjaminBirdie]

Winning Flash Acension with Gold unlocks the skins? Or just placing?

[gbit]

For the tournaments you don't have to get gold. I got silver in the venom ascension, and it unlocked flash.

How do you unlock the beta league for the flash class?

[infoxicated]

Get a medal in the Alpha tournament.

[silaris]

@Ben : I'm not sure about that, I've obtained a gold for every Ascension race so far. Bronze or Silver, I'd have to let someone else confirm this.

[BenjaminBirdie]

Never mind. Thanks!

(Gold in every one! What teamm have you been using, if you don't mind my asking.)

[silaris]

Auricom for Vector
Triakis a few times in Venom

Assegai for the rest. Triakis is my favorite heavy turning craft and Assegai is my personal favorite of all the craft, love the looks, good thrust with average speed. I'm really dependent on thrust atm because when running into the wall (happens a lot) it slows down a lot, but less of this is occuring now that i'm in the higher classes, love the speed. All the ships are great, it's a matter of personal preference.

Found a way to make the ship flip upside down (just for fun). Head to any edge of a jump, apply brakes near edge, pitch down, then go forward till the ship starts shaking, should do it, did this on Blue Ridge.

[def]

i prefer the 'zone' ship (unlocked by getting gold on all four of the zone tracks) its got 5/5 speed 5/5 handling 4/5 thrust and 1/5 shield, dangerous to use in tourney mode a direct hit with plasma will most likely wipe you off the track and most definately off the score board

[edit: spelling]

[Lance]

.
hi, def

is the zone ship also available in time trial and singlerace modes?
.

[def]

Hello Lance, it sure is, it joins the rest of the ships as soon as its unlocked, you can use it anywhere. working on rapier ascension with it right now.

[Dimension]

Heh, cool stats, that's one for the pros later in TT i'd hasten a guess :D

[Lance]

.
sounds a lot like a 2097 Piranha supership, except for the shields. i suspect that Mano will be happy to know about this full availability
.

[Chill]

OFF TOPIC:
Welcom to the zone, def. :D :wink:

[def]

Thanks, ive been a fan of the site and the games for quite a while, glad to be here. I unlocked phantom earlier today and in my personal opinion its great! fast and smooth.

[gbit]

hehe. I'm still working at unlocking mandrashee in the classic league!

[Mano]

Lance: Oh YES! Im definitely happy a supership is available in the game!, however XL/2097´s Piranha had perfect stats.

one thing repeats too, the ship i like the most in XL, visually, is piranha; and the zone ship is the one i like the most in Pure, one thing i dont like about it is how they made its airbrakes :P

Maybe in the future downloads a new perfect stats supership will be available... at least everything but shields, i wont mind even if the ship takes one hit to take down, top speed and acceleration is the most important thing for me, XL piranha doesnt even need shields, they should have rerouted the energy of the shield to the trusters!.

[JABBERJAW]

I'm pysched there is a supership. Maybe a future downloadable ship with these stats.

speed 6
thrust 5
shield 5
handling 5

here's hoping 8O

Maybe a few names from people

"Barracuda"
"Neon"
"Jabberjaw industries?

[Lance]

.
why stop at speed 6? :D
i couldn't drive it, but you probably could.
i'd want separate records tables though!
.

[infoxicated]

If you have a ship with the stats Al is suggesting, what are people going to play with in multiplayer mode? 8 of that ship, that's what - taking personal preference out of it entirely.

You know, I'd kind of like to see records tables littered with different team names in the top places, I really would. Having one super ship that beats everything else is just so dull in the long run.

Look at all the people wanting a Piranha toggle on the tables so that folk who want a real challenge with the other ships have a shot at getting a top time. The the way Pure was meant to be designed was with personal preference in mind, but already folk are choosing specific ships because there are some in there that are just too handicapped in a specific stat to be contenders.

[Lance]

.
superships lead to a kind of monoclass or one-make racing, like F-355 challenge. while that's a great game, it is very tightly focussed, and lacks appeal for many people. but it at least starts out with only the one car. a game that has several different vehicles should have them closely matched in potential laptime, but each with a different style of achieving it. and some tracks should favour different styles of performance. i was disappointed when i heard that the zone ship would be available for all races
.

[zargz]

me too .. :( > disappointed


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Thruster2097]

How do I unlock the classic tracks for vector?

[lunar]

You know, I'd kind of like to see records tables littered with different team names in the top places, I really would. Having one super ship that beats everything else is just so dull in the long run.

I agree. Since wipeout 3 I`ve longed to have a situation where you actually have to go and work out which is the fastest ship for each track. It would be great for us all to argue about which is the best ship - then go out and prove it. Or to just spend time working it out for ourselves. But if this zone ship dumps on all the rest as far as getting times is concerned then talk of "ship stats" is pretty redundant really. Who cares what they all do - you just need to unlock the fastest one and forget about the others, which is a shame. This doesn`t mean the whole game is spoiled, but it would be a case of more is less. Surely Phantom class is fast enough with the normal ships, and there`s no need to screw up what could be a great aspect of the gameplay - choosing the best ship. :cry:

[JABBERJAW]

"Phantom class is fast enough"

no it's not for a lot of people. Just have a different times table, that's all. Allow the person who is running multiplayer to disallow certain ships(read any ship) to be raced. This certainly can't be too hard to program. I like both myself, but prefer the fastest speed. I would also play both ways if it was online. I said in another post it is quite difficult to balance these ships. I almost garantee that only two ships at the most(besides the super ships) would be the fastest in wipeout pure. I would personally like records for each ship.

[lunar]

If they can make phantom fast enough for speed-freaks with 1 ship, then they can give us 8 ships that are fast enough. You don`t have to have one ship that craps on all the rest in order to make the game quick enough. I absolutely agree you can`t balance 8 ships perfectly equally - but you can get pretty close I`m sure, so that at least you don`t have the same ship being the best on every track. There`s just no need to abandon the idea of balanced ships altogether. I don`t think having different tables for different ships would be good at all - we need one set of tables for each class, otherwise things will just get messy. Why not have one set of tables and a whole bunch of competitive ships?I don`t see why that isn`t possible, even it means making the handling and speed differences relatively small. Players would still notice the differences.

[Mano]

Seriously people, whats with the "fast enough" attitude lately?, its a speed game!, i am already expecting PS3 wipeout to be the fastest of all the versions, if not the fastest racing game ever! :D

i agree with Al there should be separate tables or something like that, you can still make your challenges choosing what is allowed and what is not, for example i see in the forums a stick2track challenge is in process.

in all fairness, you can have all you want just by decision on yourselves and making your game rules!!, dont ask to take out something we like from the game just ´cause you dont want to use it!!!! thats really really selfish, shame on you! ;)

*edit as i see lunar posted at almost the same time as me: Lunar, competitive ships that go as fast as the game engine can allow would be very difficult dont know if the hardware could handle it, but at least it would be very difficult to calculate true balance; if it happens then great, but i think a lot of people would not be able to control them or wouldnt like to take the time they need to learn to control them, even so ifother stats are different and the top speed is the same, because of the nature of the game (quick acceleration, turbos, speedpads) there would be always ships with advantages.

if true balance happens with the game going as fast as the game engine AND hardware allows, then you are talking about competition nirvana (and it could be great), this could happen if the game could be updated, and if there were a lot of online support... kinda like counter strike, they are always looking for ways to balance the game, and believe me all of this time and they are still working on it. or like fighting games, take for example the street fighter 2 series, the most balanced of those series is Super street fighter 2 turbo, and they had to use the same engine for several versions to get to that point!!, and lets face it, that game was far more played.

i hope this happens in the next version of the game then, but if that kind of balance cant be done due to technical or time reasons to test and balance, then i definitely still support the supership

I can see the piranha has a legendary bite!

[lunar]

Nobody is saying that the game should be slowed down. I love speed in this game as much as anyone. But if you can make 1 superfast ship then you can make another, with slightly different characteristics, and so on. 8)

anyway a bit of clarification would be a good idea as there aren`t a whole lot of facts in this thread. :wink:

Edit for Mano: the way I see it is that with regard to the fastest class, it should be the point of the game that sees you going at the maximum speed possible, either limited by the game engine or the abilities of the best players. There could be a number of ships which perform at or around that limit, even if one does emerge on top, on most tracks, eventually. There`s no need to have just one ship which is clearly the best, and if you do it spoils a lot of the fun, in any class. If you think of the wonderful Piranha in 2097, it wouldn`t have been beyond possiblity to have another ship that could have competed with it, and beaten it on some tracks, but not on others.

It would require great testing.... true..... but some of us would be willing to help with that I think. :wink:

[gbit]

How do I unlock the classic tracks for vector?

Get a gold medal on every track in alpha and beta league, in the vector class, and get a gold medal in the alpha and beta tournaments in vector class.

[Mano]

Lunar, about the testing part: you can bet on that!

like i said if true balance at the most speed the engine and hardware can handle can be done, i think it would be great, i think we definitely agree if this is the way you think too

but if it cant be done for the reasons i explained i strongly ask for the supership!

about the ship spoiling it, like i said, many times before, dont allow the supership in your challenges!, but if for the reasons mentioned the only possibility for maximum speed is a supership, then let the supership live!!! ;)

[Thruster2097]

many thanks, gbit!
:D

[lunar]

Mano I do think we agree - but if there could only be 1 supership, yes let it exist, but perhaps a good compromise would be to only allow it for time trials, or only in Phantom class. What need would anyone have for it in slower classes, anyway? some sort of compromise like this could work.

whatever, its all become hypothetical, I think. :wink:

[Lance]

.
hmm.... supership only for Phantom class... my first reaction is that it's a good idea
.

[Axel]

I know it's a bit extreme, but how about our right banning the usage of the supership? I am disappointed that we wont see the likes of feisar or AG sys in the time tables. But I do agree on not having just 1 supership on the time tables.

[Mano]

I really dont agree on a compromise like that guys... i for one dont fly slower classes than phantom, but do i ask the developers to remove the lower classes just because of that? if i did that i would be SELFISH...

also only for TT??? no way!, why? because you dont care too much about TT and want to post SR times?

i think guys this is really serious, if this is only a tables issue then it should be solved changing the tables, not taking ships out of the game.

you want multiplayer without supership?, then block them from YOUR multiplayer games, its that simple.

you can have all of that without ANY compromise

like i said,for example if anyone asks me to play their challenge and not use the Piranha.. fine and i will have fun too, if you dont believe me then remember ther XL/2097 Feisar Phantom Spilskinanske challenge, we all had a lot of fun, and Lance created a great challenge for us to participate. But taking the ship out of the game? my opinion is no

[lunar]

I don`t agree with banning the supership if it exists in the game. The official tables have to be about playing the game you have, not the game you wish you had, imo. That doesn`t mean it should necessarily be in the game at all classes, though.

If the point of the supership is to experience the most extreme speed in the game, why do you need it there to dominate the other ships at Rapier speed and lower? It is not selfish to want no supership below phantom class, its to do with wanting a better game experience. It wouldn`t affect the Phantom class racers, and it seems that most people who don`t fly phantom don`t want to see a supership either - its the popular vote in this thread anyway.

I don`t think seperate tables will work. The tables need to be a question of seeing who is the fastest on a given course at a given racing class using the available ships. Having lots of tables just complicates things, and non-supership users don`t want to take part in a second class league. A table for every track, class, Race and TT, is more than enough leagues in my opinion. 8)

[Mano]

then make your poll to take the ship out the tables in lower classes than phantom cause you wont have fair votes unless you ASK for votes, just becuase more people that want the ship out posted doesnt mean the majority of the game players want it out, to say that is bad opportunism imo. and if on that poll people dont want the supership on lower classes than phantom on the tables then ban it FROM THE TABLES at lower classes than phantom but dont ask to take it out of the game!, or do you fail to see the selfishness in that?

and even a poll like that will only cover the WZ forums community, not all the players.

If you manage to ban the ship from the tables then your problem is solved, and the ones that like using the ship in lower classes will keep doing so too and dont interfere with the tables, and EVERYONE WINS.

If you want to make piranha be a novelty flight and not allow it in lower class competition fine by me, but do not ask to take it out of the game and dont ask to take out possible superships in a future version of the game.

[lunar]

You don`t understand me. I simply propose that it would be a better game if there was competition to find the fastest ship at lower classes than phantom. That`s not selfish - I just think it would improve the game for more people, give more to think about and help bring about genuine team rivalries, which are fun. If you insist on a single dominant ship being in the game for classes you don`t fly, then that could equally be described as a selfish attitude. Words like "selfish" really don`t move the discussion anywhere.

[zargz]

mano, you are right about woz being the top of the iceberg but even here there's a Small percentage that will play with a supership!
Do you expect then an average person that walks in a game store to be able to handle phantom with even one of the 'normal' ships not to speak with a supership?
remember the game designers take in concideration the Majority of players and most to Joe Smith in order to sell the most possible amount of games!
and also wasn't the supership Already 'Banned' in fusion to reside in the zone mode Only??
imo that's a Good solution! 8)


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Lance]

.
why not create a whole group of superships, by using the same ships, but adding a new 'Daemon Spectre'' [ :D ] class above Phantom at double the speed
.

[Mano]

To clarify things, first (you guys need to read more carefully):

Zargz: i said the opposite to what you you thought i said; i said i dont ask the developers to remove the other classes just because i only play Phantom.

and your solution for supership, well, not good :D ;)

Lunar: well i said to ban the ship from the table in the slower classes, wouldnt that solve the problem?, if it depended on me and it made you and most of the people here happy i would choose that way (no supership below phantom class), its kind of a good solution if most people dont like the supership in slower classes, but i would definitely put the superships in the highest speed class, or starting from a class like phantom, your idea combined with Lances idea is kinda good, like a faster League perhaps?

i would love to put my ships on that league!!

its kinda of what we agreed on previously but only that the ships are only available late, now its not only a supership, its a superleague! ;)

however we are not the only ones that play the game, and in that sense i think we should ask a little bit more to get some more ideas, and some people may not like the exclusion of the supership in classes below phantom... thats why i insisted on the poll for tables thing, that way everyone wins, but you dont like that.... i still think its a good solution for EVERYONE, why?

because the ideas still dont answer to the problem of what if the hardware and game engine cant support every ship going as fast as the system can handle, and all at the same time; balance will be a huge problem there too.

but most of all, if we dont make a supership (maxed out in every category), we wont see a beautiful thing fly as perfect and as fast as a person can handle, if we try to balance supership you will see a ship going very fast and not so elegantly or precise, on the other side we could see a ship going really fast and with elegant and precise movements, but not quite as fast as the previous one.... etc. and that would be truly saddening (for me at least), to handle high speeds you need total control. to see perfect flight you would need a totally maxed out supership

i would still ask for a supership totally maxed out in every aspect, but i would put it on the fastest classes if theres too much complaints and if most of the wipeout players agree with that. maybe most people would still want it in lower classes like i said before, until theres some kind of poll we are only assuming

[zargz]

and your solution for supership, well, not good :D ;)It was the Fusion Developers solution - not mine! 8)

(you guys need to read more carefully): :D heh!
what I'm saying, mano, is vast majority of players (we at woz are a vast Minority)
won't be able to handle a normal ship at high speeds - just look around you!
and look at me i have to fly to Scotland to get a decent multiplayer game!! :D

will Joe Bloggs handle a Supership - don't think so!

The guys paying the big money for making wo will ask themselfs >
will Joe B. buy then Next wo??!
or will he be thinking something like 'nah it's crap - Too Fast!! :x'
it's all about zi Money!


Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[lunar]

... thats why i insisted on the poll for tables thing, that way everyone wins, but you dont like that.... i still think its a good solution for EVERYONE, why?

Are you saying I don`t agree with the idea of a poll? I didn`t say that.

I`m quite neutral about the idea of polls, really. There are as many different ideas about the game as there are members of the site. If Rob thought there was a useful point to a particular poll then fine, I`d vote on it, but in general I think its good enough for us just to exchange views and then perhaps, if Colin and other decision-makers read the forums, some of our ideas might influence the game -which would be nice. 8)

[JABBERJAW]

Why can't we just have a tab, where you can enter a time for each ship on the times tables(besides the obvious problem of the programming). I would love to be able to enter a time for all ships, then people could say, hey, I'm #1 with feisar, or whatever. A person on wipeout xl for example could conceivably look at their top five records on the same column as well as everyone elses. You could see who is good at what ship.Then have a tab to either show "All ships", or "feisar" only or "qirex" only. this would solve all the problems. I don't get the problem with a supership, whoever is running the multiplayer can just turn it off, or any other ship for that matter, I don't think it would be too hard, and the records could be saved for every ship(top 3 or so for each ship). I think this would give more longevity(nice word) to the game as well, and many more people could have records, because of the amount of records there would be. You could also have an overall record with all the ships involved. I do think the supership should only be awarded when the game is complete though so you can't play through the game with it.

[rejj]

This is perhaps the sanest suggestion so far I've read in this thread...
Or perhaps if that is too much work, just two sets of tables would suffice - "normal" craft, and "bonus" craft.

As for people earlier asking "why would you need a supership on anything other than phantom?" - are you saying that unless you race phantom there is no reason to use anything other than Feisar?

[xEik]

This is perhaps the sanest suggestion so far I've read in this thread...
In fact it isn't. Foxy has already said somewhere in the forum that with many of the current tables having barely 10 entries, making tons of different tables for every ship and/or option would end with lots of tables where there are only 2 or 3 entries.
A table for normal ships and another for superships may still make sense, though.

My ideal solution would be using a form (admitedly we would end with a bit bloated one) for customizing the query that gets the records (this would allow choosing several ships, categories, circuits, etc.) delivering the results in a single page.


As for people earlier asking "why would you need a supership on anything other than phantom?" - are you saying that unless you race phantom there is no reason to use anything other than Feisar?
No, they are saying that at slow speeds, superfast ships are quite easy while at fast speeds it's exactly the opposite. Hence Phantom is a real challenge with 2097's Piranha while Vector is rather easy.

[Lance]

.
if the thrill of the superships is all about speed, then anything less than the maximum is pointless. except perhaps for those of us who are less gifted with great eyesight and reactions. but then we have the slower ships we can use instead.
.

[lunar]

As for people earlier asking "why would you need a supership on anything other than phantom?" - are you saying that unless you race phantom there is no reason to use anything other than Feisar?

Not at all. We`re saying that it would be interesting to have lots of options when trying to find out which is the fastest ship in the game, on a particular class and track. We don`t want only one competitive option for every track when battling for overall places. It would simply be more fun not to have to use the same ship all the time, like in wipeout 3, given that a table for each ship is both unlikely to happen and would reduce the strength of the competition. Suggesting seperate tables for each ship misses the point, really. Those who don`t support a single supership throughout the game want to be able to compete with several different ships to achieve better position in the overall tables, because that`s more interesting gameplay. We imagine the extra excitement there would in Wipeout 3 if there was more than just Manor Top phantom TT where Icaras could be beaten, with all other factors being equal.

But people want a supership so that they can experience that fastest speed possible in the game, which is fine and great. However, at Rapier class and lower, this supership does not provide that fastest speed possible in the game - it just destroys the inter-team competition that many of us would like to see. A supership at less than the fastest class is not a supership at all - it just makes the tables predictable if you let it compete with all the other ships. Its just like an unbeatable character in a beat `em up. Sure everyone can pick that guy/gal to fight with - but its much more interesting if we don`t have to. I think most of us want to compete on the same tables - not disapear off to a little backwater table where there might not be much action, and where you`re not necessarily comparing yourself with the best players.

Lots of tables really aren`t the answer - I believe the answer is to make the supership only available in the game at the highest speed class. I think the tables should reflect the game as it is - and if there`s a supership available at all classes than so be it, we`ll mostly all use it like we do on 2097/3 - although it would be a pity.

[Lance]

.
what 'lunar' is suggesting is similar to the actual situation we have voluntarily adopted by ''gentlemen's agreement'' on the Wipeout XL tables, where Piranha is raced only in Phantom class [there are a few leftover times by Piranha in the first three classes from the first weeks of the tables' existence], while all other classes are the ''Qirex League' which is actually the ''Non-Piranha'' league since any team but Piranha may be used. it's been a lot more interesting that way. there are even a few races where the top non-Piranha time is held by an Auricom or AG-S instead of a Qirex
.

[Mano]

Even a Feisar ;)

[UncleZeiv]

the actual situation we have voluntarily adopted by ''gentlemen's agreement'' on the Wipeout XL tables, where Piranha is raced only in Phantom class

This should be stated somewhere... anyway, is it true also for 2097?

_dave_

[JABBERJAW]

What I suggested is this. If you choose all crafts on the tab the table could look like this

Arnaud senand piranha 1:00
Al Sartwell Piranha 1:01
Lance price Piranha 1:02
Rob Foxx PIranha 1:03
Lance Price Qirex 1:14
Al Sartwell Auricom 1:15
Lance Price Ag Systems 1:16

AND SO ON.

If you choose a single craft, it will only show ratings for that craft
If you choose all but piranha, it would show all times except piranha

so the query would allow teams you choose, and not the ones you don't choose
so your name can come up more than once if you choose all

[shortyjj]

In regards to unlocking the classic tracks:

Would those be Manor Top, etc? What do most people here to be their favorite track anyway?

[Lance]

.
this topic seems to have got hijacked by general accord. ;)
please get back on topic.

since there is such a high degree of interest in the records table organisation, i suggest that Al should start a separate topic for it based on that last post. don't forget though, that since Rob has to do all the work, and since it is his site, he has the final say on what the nature of the records tables will be. therefore, you should look on this sort of discussion as something that is fun to discuss, but which we will not necessarily see any resulting changes from.

shortyii, thanks for asking again about the original subject of this thread, but on the other hand, please do not start another hijack by asking about favourite tracks, a subject that has been discussed many times already about all versions except for Pure. if you want to see a discussion of favourite tracks from Pure only, please start a separate topic for it
.

[shortyjj]

thanks, but my question still stands, and i hope somebody will answer it.

also, i've read alot about manor top - but never seen it - and wonder if it's the same as the original.

i look forward to starting a thread about the favorite psp tracks (once i finally try them), surprising that nobody else has done so

[Thruster2097]

Maybe theres something i am missing, but I have only unlocked karbonis.
I have cleared all the single races and the alpha, beta and ascention leagues on vector class only, all with golds. Still I only have karbonis.

Does sagarmatha unlock when you get all gold at venom?

[The Boye]

I think it unlocks at 20 golds.

[rejj]

This is perhaps the sanest suggestion so far I've read in this thread...
In fact it isn't.
I was actually referring to the suggestion that there be a table for "everything but super" and a table for "super only", not a different table for every ship. I don't think this would be so overwhelming to cause people not to bother.

... especially when the game is so new and everyone wants to play.



As for people earlier asking "why would you need a supership on anything other than phantom?" - are you saying that unless you race phantom there is no reason to use anything other than Feisar?
No, they are saying that at slow speeds, superfast ships are quite easy while at fast speeds it's exactly the opposite. Hence Phantom is a real challenge with 2097's Piranha while Vector is rather easy.
Oh, that is most definately true. Please don't mistake what I said as anything otherwise.. I was just airing a minor disagreement with "there is no point in flying the fastest ship in anything but phantom" - where my disagreement is of a minor semantic nature . Just because it is "easier than when you use it on phantom" does not mean that there is no point. It also does not mean that skill has been removed from the equation - the better pilots will still get better results.

However, I do also understand that there is an enormous difference between (to use the 2097 example) racing vector pirahna and phantom pirahna.

I'm not even saying that I'm interested in racing vector pirahna (or that I'm not), I'm saying that "there is no point" is misleading and, in my opinion, incorrect.


... but what would a forum be without opinions? ;)