Which is harder- Classic League or WO3 League?

[seek]

Just wondering which set of tracks people find to be the more difficult.


(perhaps a mod/admin could turn this into a poll?)

[Sausehuhn]

I think the classic tracks are harder. But the Wip3out league is more fun :D

[G'Kyl]

Because of some tighter turns in the WO3 league I find this one a little harder. Also, Sampa Run and Stanza at Phantom seem more of a challenge to me than any of the classic tracks.

[Hellfire_WZ]

I find Classic league much harder. I don't know if it's just me, but I normaly find myself way out in front after only one lap on the WO3 league, but Classic really makes me fight for the lead. For example, on Phantom class in a FEISAR, I can take and hold the lead after only two laps on pretty much any track on WO3. On Classic, I normally take first quite late into the last lap.

[G'Kyl]

Just an idea: Sausehuhn (it's still awkward writing that in an English text ;-) ) and Hellfire, have you played Wipeout 1 and/or 2 before or after 3? Might it be that you find classic tracks harder because you haven't been knowing them before 3?

Ben

[seek]

That's an interesting idea, but personally I also find the classic tracks a touch harder, even though I've been playing WO since the original.

[faB]

Some tracks on Classic I find are a pain with the slowest ships, like Odessa Keys. Otherwise I find Classic tracks not as polished, and not really tailored to the wo3se ships.

[Hellfire_WZ]

Just an idea: Sausehuhn (it's still awkward writing that in an English text ;-) ) and Hellfire, have you played Wipeout 1 and/or 2 before or after 3? Might it be that you find classic tracks harder because you haven't been knowing them before 3?

Ben

Yeah, I've played all of them, and pretty much know every track like the back of my hand. I don't know why, the AI just seems a lot more agressive. And the less said about Odessa Keys the better, I HATE that track!

[Sausehuhn]

No, I played 2097/XL before Wip3out, and I still think the classic tracks are harder. The track deisgn is different (not worse or better, just different).
In wip3out league I'm at the first position after one or two laps the most time, classic is more difficult. I often need more laps (3 or 4, sometimes 5, too).

Between: Why there's no jungle track in WO3:SE? [I love the one of Fusion: this awesome design and these difficult curves - wonderful!]

PS: Yes, Ben, "Sausehuhn" is not really English :wink: I wonder how it sounds in English...

[G'Kyl]

Should be something like Speedy Chicken. ;)

So OK, it seems then I am the only one having more problem with WO3's generic tracks than the classic ones. What I find more difficult is that courses from WO3 seem somewhat smaller to me - they are not as wide but at the same time more twisted in parts than those from 2097 and 1. Or is my mind playing tricks on me?

Ben

[Sausehuhn]

[off topic mode]

No, I do not mean what it is in english (I allready knew, that it is "speedy" or "running chicken"). I just wonder how you would speak it in English and how it would sound...

[/off topic mode]

[Lance]

.
sow suh hun [but with the vowel in the last syllable sounding halfway between uh [short u] and oo [long u]

does 'huhn' mean 'hen' [the female chicken] or is it more generic?

or does 'huhn' mean speedy? i'm not sure of the Deutsch word order for nouns and adjectives
.

[G'Kyl]

German compounds always have the noun at the end. And you are right on spot, Huhn is English hen, although in colloquial use it is often applied in the generic meaning you mention.

Ben

[Seek100]

I would imagine it has the same grammar structures (or similar) as english for word order, given that English is just a derivative of Plattdüütsch (Low German) with huge amounts of French, Greek and Latin vocabulary chucked in at random.

On topic I can definately say that no tracks are as hard as Sampa Run and Stanza Inter - even though SE adjusted the difficulty on those tracks they're still the hardest.

I get what faB says about the classic tracks not being tailored to the w3o ships - they're not, they're tailored to a rather different physics engine, compare the jump at Altima VII on w3o:se to the w'o" version and you can see the craft respond completely differently, it's a bad idea to revisit old tracks in a new physics engine because the amount of playtesting and fine-tuning that went into them originally would be worthless as the ships won't respond how they originally did anymore.

P.S. Old English is apparently mutually-intelligible with frisian - a language spoken in northeastern Nederlands. At leas Eddie Izzard thought so, he went to Frisia and managed to buy a brown cow off of a farmer there. :roll:

[zargz]

i see sause and huhn
shouldnt sause sound like sauce?
huh (huhn) ? ;)

Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[G'Kyl]

given that English is just a derivative of Plattdüütsch (Low German) with huge amounts of French, Greek and Latin vocabulary chucked in at random.

Actually, English is a derivative of Saxon, with too many influences thrown in to count them all here. ;) Norse, by the way, must not be forgotten as part of that list, whereas Greek only plays a minor role. *g*


On topic I can definately say that no tracks are as hard as Sampa Run and Stanza Inter - even though SE adjusted the difficulty on those tracks they're still the hardest.

They were adjusted? In what way? Just AI behavior or something else? I still hate Sampa Run from 3SE for its two uphill-into-the-tunnel sections. :|


compare the jump at Altima VII on w3o:se to the w'o" version and you can see the craft respond completely differently

Yes. It is virtually impossible to NOT fly through the rock at Phantom, which takes much of the fun out of this course. :(

By the way, do WO3(SE) tracks at certain points use tricks in order to keep you within the limits of the track or make you get through otherwise difficult sections? At Altima, for instance, when going through the dip (right before the jump), I can't shake the feeling that around the lowest point the floatiness of the craft is being helped or improved so you don't bottom out. Anyone else ever noticed that or am I being paranoid?


it's a bad idea to revisit old tracks in a new physics engine because the amount of playtesting and fine-tuning that went into them originally would be worthless as the ships won't respond how they originally did anymore.

Yes and no. ;) I don't think it's worthless revisiting tracks from earlier versions. There may be issues with getting them to work properly, but then seeing old favs shine in the latest graphics and physics engines is a big enough bonus to always be a considered feature to be added for the fans.


P.S. Old English is apparently mutually-intelligible with frisian - a language spoken in northeastern Nederlands. At leas Eddie Izzard thought so, he went to Frisia and managed to buy a brown cow off of a farmer there. :roll:

They are rather closely related, yes. :)

Ben

[Seek100]

English is a derivative of Saxon

Saxon itself being a kind of Low German.
I forgot about Norse, which also played a small role - nowhere near the level of French and Latin, Greek I included because of the shocking number of long words that have Greek origins, usually sciency words, often they combine Greek and Latin in the same word. :evil:

On Topic again, apparently the 3:se tracks were adjusted because there was a bug in the AI in w3o that meant sampa run and stanza inter were actually harder than Manortop and Terminal, they fixed the 'progression' of difficulty in 3:se.

I've personally never noticed the engine 'help me out', in fact it seems to delight in throwing me into the floor/roof whenever it gets the chance, I'll have to check out that Altima section again (you mean the bit with about 16 turbo pads staggered 8 to a side of the track at the bottom of the hill after the 'DANGER' hill?)

I agree that it's great fun to revisit old tracks, but I think the developers should think hard about redesigning them slightly before including them, hitting ceilings and bottoming out because a track was designed for a different physics engine is not my idea of fun, TBH I actually prefer the 2097 physics to those of 3, and the ship design, it's a shame they don't think of including old craft from w'o", 2097 or w3o as hidden extras in purE, or at least have them as d/l content later on.

[zargz]

don't wanna crush in to the roofs? >> L2 + R2 ;)
coz of it's ridiculous shortcuts classic is far easyer! :|

Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Asayyeah]

To slow down with airbrakes....huhh :?
Or you should do this not to shock yourself :
Close your eyes just when you fly through the rock at altima and open them after : no more consciousness' pb :lol:

[zargz]

I'm affraid it's not that ez 2 get rid of! 8) heh
also might mess up my landing :D LOL

Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[G'Kyl]

Pah, don't need shortcuts to find it easier!

Sorry, just kidding (as usual). :)


Seek100: Yep, I meant the lowest part of "danger hill". And I agree on that old tracks better be redesigned before forcing them onto a different physics engine. This would even make things MORE realistic, since any race course is being altered regularily in order to match new regulations and requirements.

Ben

[Seek100]

LOL, it's possible to do those sections by just letting off the thrust and forcing the nose down as much as possible, only prob with that is my timing sux, either let off too late or push down too late. Airbrakes slow you down too much on hill-into-roof sections. :?

@ G'Kyl: things like the bend where Ayrton Senna crashed at Imola - they completely changed that after the crash IIRC, they made it into a chicane instead of just being a fast single corner. Those sorts of changes would make old w'o" tracks more believable aswell.

[Rapier Racer]

I found the classic league much more difficult to complete, like it’s been said those track were not designed for those ships, trying to get an Icaras round Odessa Keys in Phantom class is not exactly my idea of fun, the WO 3 league was much more easy to get through, could just be because I raced there quite a lot trying to improve times compared to the classic tracks where I just wanted to get gold and not go back tanks very much! There are a few exceptions mind

[Lance]

.
Seek100! ? gasp!
letting off the thrust?!?!?!!!
SACRILEGE!!
arrrggh. :D
.

[zargz]

yeh! why let go of the thrust when you can press L2+R2 simultaneosly?! :D
no but seriously > some ppl sound like they want a huge Oval with not too tight turns so they can fly their icaras on phantom! 8O
C'mon man! there must be some turns??!
and perhaps some difficult turns as well .. right??! :roll:

Praeterea censeo autopilotum esse delendam

[Seek100]

.
Seek100! ? gasp!
letting off the thrust?!?!?!!!
SACRILEGE!!
arrrggh. :D
.

ROFL, Go try Sampa Run on rapier/phantom and then tell me you didn't let off the thrust at those two hills that lead into low-roofed tunnels :lol: I don't like bouncing up and down like a ping-pong ball on that track, even in a Feisar you have to lift off the thrust to avoid scraping the cockpit.

Edit:


yeh! why let go of the thrust when you can press L2+R2 simultaneosly?!
no but seriously > some ppl sound like they want a huge Oval with not too tight turns so they can fly their icaras on phantom!
C'mon man! there must be some turns??!
and perhaps some difficult turns as well .. right??!

My god I hate Icaras, I'm so happy they're not in purE, I'm dreading going through phantom with them :x plus they have the crappest colour scheme ever devised well okay, maybe Qirex's w3o colours were also very camp but still - two shades of pink and bright orange!?

[Asayyeah]

Go try Sampa Run on rapier/phantom and then tell me you didn't let off the thrust at those two hills that lead into low-roofed tunnels
:oops: Never my friend, never.
It depends on how is your line i can assure you every kind of tough turns as its own way to do it successfully ( without slowing down or press L2+R2 :? )
It's just a matter of experience and knowledge how wipeout rules.

[Seek100]

Hmm, fair enough, since I know I suck, (not sarcasm, I do actually suck rather badly at WO) reckon you could give some tips for those hills-into-tunnels sections on Sampa Run?

[Rapier Racer]

What about stanza inter? I can't believe that anyone could get round it without taking their foot of the gas at one stage or another, an Icaras at Phantom on stanza inter with full throttle all the way round for 5 laps 8O sounds impossible

[Dimension]

Not sure about the W3O/SE differences but if it's anything alike then you can go around any course without releasing the X button (i personally never release the button between the word go and the popping up of my time(s),) but there isn't a course in W3O that you can get around without using the airbrakes, if that's what is meant. Out of interest also, I never hit both airbrakes at once :)

[Sausehuhn]

I agree, that IS impossible. But it works well with Auricom or Goteki 45. Okay, sometimes you crash into a wall, but not often at all. With Goteki you also could get 5 perfekt laps.
Qirex is more complecated. You have to slow down in the tunnel the most time, sometimes you also can go through it with full speed!
Piranha and AG-systems... hm... possible I think. Also Assagai could work well.
Icaras IS impossible as I said at the beginning...

... I will not say something about FEISAR, I think that's clear ;)

The most time I fly with Auricom, Goteki 45 or Qirex, so maybe the others are wrong.

[Dimension]

Heh, I race Qirex always and I have to say I yet again never release the go button (anywhere, not even Mega Mall :P), maybe i'm just too wreckless? :D On that note i tend to find that the Qirex isn't that much easier than the icaras to pilot and with an added 1 turning on the SE icaras, how could it fail to be easier? :)

[G'Kyl]

Well, I actually do find Qirex easier than Icaras. It's not as fast and yes, it's a bit more agile. Both makes for more direct control over the craft and it shows. In fact, I am always amazed how easy it is flying a Qirex after having done a few laps on the Icaras.

Ben

[Asayyeah]

Seek100 : about tips the best i can do to avoid any kind of misunderstanding due to my level of written english, so the best way for me to be understood by peeps will be to create a video ( sampa run phantom icaras) as i already done for 2097with Qirex&Pirahna. As a matter of fact you will able to see my lines for those hils-into-sections.

Assegai Developments : like in W3O in SE Stanza phantom : no shorcuts right? Al + me doesn't slow down and no L2+R2 and result close to 2.00.0 in pahntom race...