About some minor stuff in 1, 2097 & 3/se ..

[zargz]

.. I personally wouldnt like to see in pure 8O

we begin with wo1- oh! nothing wrong there! :D

2097 - main thing is on TT the clock doesn't start on 'Go!'
so as long as u dont cross the start line u can turn arround and get a 'flying' start!
Lots of the top 3 times in 2097 on the tables were done that way! :evil:
also 'perfect lap' message was in your face --> both fixed in 3/se, hope out of pure ..
the huge, imo, arrow on your head in multiplayer was diminished in 3/se but stll there ..
ofcource the shortCuts witch prob'ly no one expected in 2097, yet still in 3/se (perhaps intentionaly?)
next --> auotpilot witch i think would be acceptablie if it lasted for about 3sec and cut half of your speed
so you can take one hard corner and not 5-6 like in Stanza for example .. :|
(although talking about 2097 didnt play it for ages so can't come up with a propper example & 4got names of trax')
autopilot btw significantly unbalances the game makes it so much easyer to win! as if it wasn't easy enough! :?
and at last --> the supership piranha :x

fusion - exept for handling and teleport glitch can't say much coz didn't play it alot. :?

3/se - this thread could really be called 'About some minor stuff in 3/se .. ' so here we go
I was surprised to see that there was no league kinda arrangement in order to beat the game, like in wo1& 2097
so I'm glad to learn that they're back in pure with 3 leagues to beat one of wich is the classic league! 8)
However, there are tournaments in 3/se and here are a couple of things that hopefully are bettered in pure ..
in wo1 there is 2 pilots to each team and their craft although the same are painted in different colors so while racing I knew
'Oh, sh*t! Solaar just blasted by me! Have 2 keep him behind me this last race - that way I can win the whole League!!'' or similar
In 3/se you just see a name after the race and you dont even know what kinda ship you have to watch out for!!
This could've easily been remedied, or bettered a bit, just by putting the ships name beside the AI racers name.
Then at least you would've known 'Aha! Have to keep those 3 auricoms behind me!' This I thought was pretty bad :|
another minor thing with tourament - lookind at the standings after a race guess they could've put all 8 names on the same screen :?
what else? .. in multiplayer when in cockpit or internal view you can't see when your energi is being drained ..
the boost imo aceptable if considered as an reward for keeping you shield full - be able to use till it gets down to 90% - OK.

in 2097 and 3/se I disslike -->
AI not able to use the same weapon as player (great in wo64), no custom league / tournament, autopilot and shortcuts

Hey! almost forgot wo64!!! 8O
Solid game some desigm misses allow huges jumps ehere and there.
Biggest misstake - can't play with D-pad! Guess it's coz of the massive complaint about it that we can play D-pad on pure? :D
another big one - point system especially 3point for an elimination? C'mon man! You can win the whole thing just doing that!
One point would've been more adequate, like bonus point for leading most laps in a NASCAR race or something ..
Team wapons sucked big time among other thing coz of the inbalance between them.
AGsys lock and shoot someone then just bump into him/her - Boom, eliminated as for Qirex - force wall :?

About Point and Tournament Systems in general
10 p for first 6 for 2nd place .. imo just too big difference ..
I liked wo1 point system from 1st to 8th it gave 9 7 5 3 2 1 0 0 .. pretty ok and tight fo a 6 races league 8)
Didnt like that you have 3 continues / track, too 'unrealistic' to me but things got better with time - 2097 has 3 continues/ tournament
and better yet the 3/se tournament gives you 1chance/ track no matter where you finish - in 1 and 2097 you have to be at least 3rd to go on.
The system WRC (rally) and i think F1 are useing at the moment is just fine i think - 10 8 6 5 4 3 2 1.
May be for 8 players multiplayer game 10 7 5 4 3 2 1 0 or even better and tighter a modefied wo1 system -->
9 7 5 4 3 2 1 0 so last 2 battle for the last point. 8)
plus a point / elimination!

other thing came to think of now when changeing between different versions -
in 2097 while having the shield on and pick up a weapon when you disscard weaopn
it's the weapon that desapperes ! In 3/se tie shield goes - an improvement in my eyes :)

well that's about it.

any thoughts? http://www.geocities.com/zargz/leenden/phm.gif
or minor stuff that bothered you in any version of the wipEouts?


Preaterea censeo autopilotum esse delandam

[mid]

The most obvious one that springs to mind is that the sequels are all (rightly) a lot softer on us rubbish people than the original Wipeout - wall banging should slow you down, but not bring you to an abrupt stop like it used to. Somehow I think this won't be an issue, though.

[Shem]

I just wouldn't like to hear that awful noise activating when you crossed the checkpoint line (visable BTW, which was also a bummer if you ask me) in w3o and w3o SE. I have nothing agains checkpoints if they are constructed like in W'O"2097 (invisible along with that specific noise heard when crossing it).

[G'Kyl]

Actually, I think autopilot is a good thing for most pilots. I heard many players complain about how difficult 2097 was (go figure ;) ), not to mention Wipeout 1. So, for anyone who doesn't like the ap, I'd say tossing it away by just pressing a button is easy enough, while everyone else keep their much needed extra. And let's face it: For many people here, successfully completing the game won't be a problem whatsoever, whereas less experienced or just more casual players need to get a nicely balanced game. There COULD be various difficulty settings, but I don't think that would fit into a Wipeout game.

Apart from that I won't be nitpicking on details. I'm anxious to see how Pure is gonna come out and what new (and old) it brings to WO. Though I too would like see an option to turn off ghosts, as was mentioned in another thread. This is simply because having a ghost in sight means a serious distraction for my flying.

[Rapier Racer]

I'd have to agree there, ghosts are a bit of a distraction at times and it would be nice if you could make them vanish, does anyone ever see the ghost and try so badly to beat it that in the end the only thing that takes a beating is your craft!?

[Dimension]

yes, far too often in fact, especially when you set ones at the height of a good session and can't touch them afterwards :o

[G'Kyl]

Exactely. I always have to restart the Time Trial in order to get rid of the ghost (3SE or even restart the entire game (2097), which can become quite an annoyance.

[Dimension]

guess we'll have to ask mr berry very nicely and hope he's added a ghost on|off option. The old subconscious "maybe I can just wait and pass him under breaking" (followed by the obligatory crumpled icaras) is getting kind of old :(

[Lance]

.
you guys do realise that based on what Colin has said in the forums [ ''We are 'almost' there, ironing out the last few bugs now,'' ] that the game is already complete except for bug-testing? at this stage, there aren't going to be any changes in features
.

[zargz]

yep but it's good to have it said 8)

Preaterea censeo autopilotum esse delandam

[Dimension]

The obvious has been stated, oh course lance, this is just a hoping thing, they're too close to release now to do anything. Besides, it's just a... something.

[G'Kyl]

I never thought of this thread to be anything more than a collection of thoughts on Wipeout in general and what players want. If some of the developers use this for Pure or later installations, that's fine. If not, that's fine too. I take what I get, no matter whether or not "my" features are in the game. :) But yeah, I figured it helps keeping expectations regarding your own ideas low. Had they listened to me, for instance, WO3 had never seen hyperthrust. ;-)

Ben

[zargz]

I think it was a 'fly' --> several other racing games had just come up with that .. :?
good thing it's not in pure though! (^_________^)

Preaterea censeo autopilotum esse delandam

[Colin Berry]

As someone said its a bit late now ..........

Fortunately I had similar thoughts back when we started :D

You'll be glad to know that most of the things mentioned have been covered / adressed / thought of and dealt with one way or another. One of the first things I did way back when (nearly two years ago now !), was analyse all the previous versions and identify their positives and negatives, major and minor and compile (large) lists, and work through them finding solutions etc.

Obviously you cant please everyone all the time, there are no check points in Pure as I didnt see a real need for them. The pit-lanes went because I felt it was time for a change and I felt that pitlanes combined with turbo / shield thing in WO3 meant that the pit lane was essentially the main track loop.

I'm no big fan of the turbo / shield feature from WO3, and once we settled on the absorb weapon system to replenish energy it became obvious that the turbo / shield wouldnt work anyway (essentially allowing you to replensih your energy all the time, then boost, then replenish etc). Having said that even if the pit-lanes had stayed the turbo / shield would have gone, as I just dont like it very much.. ...

[lunar]

.. 2097 - main thing is on TT the clock doesn't start on 'Go!'
so as long as u dont cross the start line u can turn arround and get a 'flying' start!
Lots of the top 3 times in 2097 on the tables were done that way! :evil:


I`m not sure about that. I`ve never used that method, hell would freeze over before Ben would, and I don`t think Arnaud uses it either - I remember him talking about slow first laps.... you don`t really get slow first laps with that method.

I agree its cheese though. I suppose if everyone did it, like shortcuts, we would all have to do it, but fortunately I think its very rare on the tables.

Other than that I agree with everything you say :D I`d like to see a tournament system with proper names for your enemies - not just Nicky, Jane, Fred etc like in WO3. Proper pilot names - but not characters and "story modes" though, please. And no cheesy freaks like the fusion pilots. 8O


The pit-lanes went because I felt it was time for a change

does this mean there can still be a question over whether you survive to the finish of the race, or not? have you had to make the shields huge, or ships indestructible to counter the lack of pits? the "will I finish?" tension is essential..... I guess you have this covered though..... :wink:

[zargz]

ok 8)
i agree about half human pilots and stuff like that
compareing the pilots from 1 and fusion 1s were way better - credible!
though putting All the traks in the same city was waaay .. lame :?
judge dredds megacity anyone? :D
even the firestar track on mars was bit too far I thought at the time.
the moon? .. err ok but Mars! C'mon! :?

I'm curious to see how we gon see who is who in multiplayer if we all take the same craft
and about the points --> how will they be divided
also if we get to decide what weapon will be used and/or how many laps a race will be 8O


Preaterea censeo autopilotum esse delandam

[Rapier Racer]

I'm curious to see how we gon see who is who in multiplayer if we all take the same craft

I don't think that will happen, everyone has their favourite and clearly we don't all have the same fav ship, so does the multiplayer work in such a away that it would allow for example 8 AG-S's to race against each other? I thought it might be like… Fusion (ducks) and would only allow a certain number of the same ship at once e.g. 2


also if we get to decide what weapon will be used and/or how many laps a race will be

I have a feeling those will be fixed

[G'Kyl]

Assagai: I wouldn't like that. As much as having a limited number of crafts might add to the feeling of reality it would certainly be a bad thing to punish players who join late or last into a session and therefore can only choose ships that aren't suitable for the respective track.

zargz: I always thought Mars and similar tracks are cool! :) The series, especially WO3, may have developed into a direction where a more urban setting took over from the "far out" earlier surroundings, but why not have a track on another planet in a game that takes place in the distant future? I totally love the Mars track in Quantum Redshift, for instance, not to mention Firestar. :)


I`ve never used that method, hell would freeze over before Ben would

Just to make this certain: You're damn right it would! :-)

Ben

[Dimension]

as far as multiplayer goes, if the ships were limited, it could be set up that, taking from the WOP supposed online boards, those rankin highest would choose last, to even things up somewhat, then (for example) Mr Sartwell would find himself sulking in his rackety old feisar while someone else is sitting pretty in a qirex on a nice open track (the fusion track anyone? :)) I'm sure they'll have some way to organise things, another thing to just wait and see on.

On the track thing, I can't say i'm bothered, a track's a track, where it is is irrelevant really, each and every track to date has its own unique style derived from its surroundings, can't see why placing one in a far out location would change that :)

[Lance]

.
i don't use flying starts either. it was mentioned in the forums nearly a year ago, and i tried it a couple of times in an experiment to see how much effect it had, though i did not post the resulting times. the effect is greater when there are fewer laps, and therefore most effective in Vector. subsequently i beat my best flying start time in vector by a substantial margin without the 'cheat', though that was because my skills improved in the meantime.

multiplayer ship choices: it is almost inevitable that there will be a best ship for any particular course; so serious competitions on a specific track will likely turn into a monoclass

Colin: dang it, i looove shield power turbo :)
.

[Rapier Racer]

I don't want that either G'kyl I would prefer it if many people could pick the same craft,

[yawnstretch]

As someone said its a bit late now ..........

Fortunately I had similar thoughts back when we started :D

You'll be glad to know that most of the things mentioned have been covered / adressed / thought of and dealt with one way or another. One of the first things I did way back when (nearly two years ago now !), was analyse all the previous versions and identify their positives and negatives, major and minor and compile (large) lists, and work through them finding solutions etc.

Obviously you cant please everyone all the time, there are no check points in Pure as I didnt see a real need for them. The pit-lanes went because I felt it was time for a change and I felt that pitlanes combined with turbo / shield thing in WO3 meant that the pit lane was essentially the main track loop.

I'm no big fan of the turbo / shield feature from WO3, and once we settled on the absorb weapon system to replenish energy it became obvious that the turbo / shield wouldnt work anyway (essentially allowing you to replensih your energy all the time, then boost, then replenish etc). Having said that even if the pit-lanes had stayed the turbo / shield would have gone, as I just dont like it very much.. ...

While I loved 2097 very much, I have to say I preferred the 'open road' feel of wipeout one so getting rid of checkpoints suits me nicely.
I only hope I'm not one of those who've built up Pure too much in their own mind. I think I should really try to forget about it until it's out... or something :? 8O


Yeah - Right! :twisted:

[Dimension]

While in reality I can't complain with an all one ship field since everyone'll always want the best equipment and that does make things level, it will also work as a dissadvantage, instantly removing any kind of advantage or dissadvantage present, that will make the multiplayer game dead boring (yeah, I said boring) :blarg Where's the fun in going to the annual Assegai convention whenever you switch the PSP on? :| I just hope it's even enough to at least give other ships a slim chance of victory on most tracks for idiots like me who love challenging the tables with *for example* a FEISAR (give me a couple of days and i'll have it in 3rd or 4th at P-mar, promise! :twisted:) But on subject... Can peeps not see the problem with uniform fields, aside from the championship thing? The general satisfaction of knowing you took out the only whatever in the field is gone, no more carrying the Auricom/qirex war and no specific Assegai (easy pickings lol) bashing since we'll all be flying them :(

[Rapier Racer]

Well pilots here on the zone should take vows, to fly their favourite ship all the time with pride :D although I can't see that happening if it's going to put someone at a disadvantage, I know what you mean, it wouldn't be as good if I switched on and was welcomed by a grid full of Assegais, or Qirexs, it might not happen but if it does well I suppose that’s just tough we’ll have to live with it, Assegai bashing? Why you little…

[G'Kyl]

I don't think this is going to turn into a problem, Dimension. On the one hand, if there are going to be all-[insert ship name]-grids, that's surely going to be fun, since everyone can see where they are standing. On the other hand, I am quite certain that many people you meet won't be competing just to beat the hell out of everyone else but for the fun of it. Much of the latte, I would guess, should hold true for many WOZ pilots. If all else fails, I am sure you could still come to an agreement with most players to let more experienced players choose weaker crafts and vice versa.
I for one prefer taking out the Qirex for a run at Spilskinanke, although I probably won't ever beat my Feisar records on that track. (Damn that challenge, Lance, now there is no chance for me to get a Qirex into the Spils tables. ;-)) )
And just one last comment. I don't believe there will be many tracks in Pure where only a single ship is able to win the race against equal competitors.

Ben

[Colin Berry]

Each player can select any ship they desire, so you could have a field of 8 different ships, or 8 the same, or 3 of one, two of another and 3 individuals. Ships have the players 3 letter TAG above them to identify who is who - we have worked these in a way as to not be obtrusive though and it works well.

Instead of pit-lanes you can replenish energy by absorbing weapons. When you collect a pick up you can either use it or absorb it, you cant ditch it. It makes for some interesting choices, do you shoot the guy in front but risk having low health, or do you top up your health and err on the side of caution. It also means that you can replenish energy throughout the race and not in one place. It used to annoy me that you would come out of the pit, get hit by a quake or plasma and then have to drive cautiously for a lap to get back to the pits.

The clock in time trial starts as soon as the race says GO! which invariably means your first lap is a little slower than subsequent ones as its a standing start unless you get the turbo start. In multiplayer you can switch weapons on or off - you cant switch specific weapons on or off. Number of laps is dictated by speed class, I think this was a design and coding issue to do with keeping the records from mulit inline with single player records, there was another reason too, but I cant think of it right now :?

[G'Kyl]

Ships have the players 3 letter TAG above them to identify who is who - we have worked these in a way as to not be obtrusive though and it works well.

I am sure it does, really am, but can it be turned off anyway? Just wondering.

[zargz]

aye! second that G'kyl! 8)

Colin, great news! Thanks! :D

Preaterea censeo autopilotum esse delandam