Sagarmartha in TT

[G'Kyl]

I'm currently trying to do some good TT times on all tracks. Now, since I race in first-person-perspective, the checkered tiles in Sag. make it almost impossible to read the "rpm"-meter at the very start of the race, which in turn leaves me with hardly anything more than educated guessing when it comes to keeping the rpm within the "jump-start" limits, especially in Venom and Vector.
OK, it's not THAT bad. But bad enough. And it makes me drive Sagarmartha in TT with far less enthusiasm than in Arcade Mode. Has anyone ever been as frustrated with this track as I am right now?

Ben

[lunar]

I know what you mean about the starts on that track..... :evil:

and when you finally do get a good start only to hit on the first corner...... :evil: :evil: :evil:

what I do to get around the problem is hold max thrust until just after the announcer says "one", then release, and press again when its go. The timing between one and go should be hard-wired into every pilot`s head. This strategy definitely works for me, but you have to vary the release timing slightly depending on your race class. The only instance it doesn`t work is when I`m in the "performance spiral"..... see definitions :evil:

I think Sagarmatha`s a much tougher track than Valparaiso to fly fast on, especially the first half. Pierluigi Allemanno (Tokai, I think) has some very good times, considering he`s not using a neg as far as I know. :)

[Lance]

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i have trouble seeing the thrust meter at the start on most every track in XL. by looking veeeeeeeerrrrry carefully, i can see the position of the thrust bar just barely enough to get the start. i probably hit about 85 to 90 percent of the starts correctly, but it's a pain to do so.

i mentioned the dread Sagarmatha TT starting 'whunk' into the wall in another thread, but really i find Sag to be easier to drive well than Valparaiso. this is mostly because the boost pads on Valpo are so tight to the inside of the track just past the corners. they're giving me fits as i'm trying to bring up my times there to the standard i have on some other courses. i need to work on Phantom class in TT, and EVerything in SR. mostly we're using Qirex or less on XL until infoxx adds the Piranha switch so we can post times separately for the 'normal' ships
.

[G'Kyl]

what I do to get around the problem is hold max thrust until just after the announcer says "one", then release, and press again when its go. The timing between one and go should be hard-wired into every pilot`s head.
Hm, I figured that would work, but I was too lazy to try out the correct timing for every class. ;)


I think Sagarmatha`s a much tougher track than Valparaiso to fly fast on, especially the first half.
Absolutely! It takes some practice to REALLY be fast on Sagarmartha as the track is quite tricky considering it's supposed to be the second-easiest in the game.


i have trouble seeing the thrust meter at the start on most every track in XL. by looking veeeeeeeerrrrry carefully, i can see the position of the thrust bar just barely enough to get the start. i probably hit about 85 to 90 percent of the starts correctly, but it's a pain to do so.
I find that surprising since I myself never had any such problems, except for Sagarm. of course.
However, as for me, I found it pretty difficult to get a jump start in W3O at first. Since there is no scaling of the rpm-meter as in WO and WOXL.

Ben

[Lance]

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maybe your eyesight is not as bad as mine. i've been very nearsighted since age 7, and i've gotten so i almost never wear my contact lenses much anymore, and never when i race Wipeout or other videogames. also, you play the game on a PAL [or maybe SECAM?] television, instead of NTSC, which is not great at discriminating between similar brightness values, and is a bit weak at displaying red properly. it tends to bleed into other colours a bit. the large white areas of those huge checkerboard sections before the start/finish line just wipe out the portion of the thrust meter that i need to see. those very long checkered sections are the one thing i would change about XL; they dazzle my vision so that it's hard to distinguish other ships or to see some of the corners near the finish line. Phenitia Park pits and final corner, and Valparaiso pits and final corner are examples of this
.

[lunar]

Maybe its a Piranha thing, but I find that of the first 3 tracks, which are the only ones I`ve practised a lot so far, the first half of Sagarmatha requires the most inch perfect lines to get a fast lap, and to achieve these lines you need to add a very difficult and fast combination of pitch control moves. As soon as I could do it I stopped racing the track. I don`t want to go through that pain again. :evil: :wink:

Strange tip for Sagarmatha, rapier class, Piranha: this is based on Assayeah`s "brake boosting" method. On the double speed pad before the jump pitch up and tap the brake, then as you go over the jump bang the nose down and simaltaneously tap the brake once again. This is pretty easy to do and can give you 410kph in Rapier, Piranha, as you come off the jump, then speeds approaching 400 on the straight. This can buy you 1.5 seconds a lap, and it seems to work sometimes in Venom too.

Lance: I feel your pain on Valparaiso in a slidey Qirex, in a pointy Piranha its a lovely feeling and not too hard.

[Asayyeah]

Lunar glad to see you succeed in :D : 410 kph is a really good speed on rapier. As a matter of fact it works on each class ( the braking pads method) but the best benefit is on phanthom class, for instance before the jump if you cross the 'C' section in the middle of the track with a decent speed around 400 kph take 30 kph more on the X2 right pads then it's not possible to bang the nose down quickly ( otherwise your speed cross 490 kph and reset at 390 kph , it's not the fact of bouncing on the ground...) so in this case i try to maintain my speed around 480 or less with touching softly the nose down

G'Kyl i totally agree with you, it's one of the problem in TT with internal view on Sagarmatha but also on Odessa Keys, if smone noticed that before. My own tip is a little different from Lunar i just get the external view when it's starting ( you can see a bit clearly, the thrust meter ), just after the first ' S ' turn i leave the external view and go back to internal when there's the straight line)

Lance i agree with you :) Great remark, Ntsc better quality for colors ( Al also told me this before) but due to Ntsc speed factor ( limited to 400 kph on phanthom) you can't erase the big 90°left corner before the pits on Valparaiso, on 2097 version you can ( see my description concerning this in the ' list of shortcuts' topic)

[JABBERJAW]

assayeah, the speed that the ntsc version is slower by number, but faster by time and sight. exp. going 440 in 2097 is like going roughly 370 in xl. in other words they are going the exact same speed with this(xl is still less floaty, but still floaty enough) Xl also has a better air cushion under the ship for less bottoming out than 2097 so it sometimes is easier to keep a higher speed. that technique works great on xl, just like 2097, but you don't get quite as high.

[Asayyeah]

Apologize to me!! i was knowing that before ( i didn't forgotten the things you teach me before 8) ) but Even if the feeling of speed is equall on the both versions when i saw one of your best race on XLand mine on 2097.The very big difference is you can't fly with XL as much as 2097, i mean many shortcuts are unachievable on Ntsc version whereas it 's allowed on 2097.
It's a matter of taste!! Me i like flying like a seagull ( for UK people & french do you remember Eric Cantona... the first football philosopher player... :lol: :lol: )

[Lance]

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2097 is even worse than XL for bottoming out?! argh.

''...so in this case i try to maintain my speed around 480 or less with touching softly the nose down''
in rapier and phantom, i don't even have time to think about such things; i am in full automatic reaction mode. if i'm lucky. if i'm not in that zone, i'm too busy crashing to have any speed anyway. maybe someday i'll be sufficiently used to the speed to have time to deliberately make such decisions consciously, but i sure can't do it yet.

well... no... i've not heard of Eric Cantona, but i have seen interviews with the famous philosopher, David Beckham
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[JABBERJAW]

assayeah, my new tape would definitely show more flying. The trick is getting the ship off the track to the left or right. When you do this it doesn't matter which version you play, you'll stay in the air a while. As far as the piranha is concerned, both versions are so far identical for the shortcuts you can take(while it may take different techniques with pitch to get it off the ground). For the other ships, there are a few more shortcuts with 2097. Assayeah, once you play xl you will not want to go back, it is much smoother moving and the game is a little more fluid as well. You'll have to try it though. The games definitely both have advantages though, as opposed to wipeout 3se or the pal 3 version which are a definite downgrade from the american and japanese versions(still good though). Are you going to be able to write those shortcuts for the last 4 tracks? I would be interested on odessa to see where you cut, as well as vostok + spilskinanke.

[Asayyeah]

Are you going to be able to write those shortcuts for the last 4 tracks? .
Yes, Yes, be able to write is not a pb for me, but sorry actually ive spent 3 hours laughing with Lance :lol: :lol: so when i 'm laughing too much i can't concentrated enough myself for writing something coherent :lol: ...so be patient ( tomorow 2 new tracks : thx for Cool Lover to correct my grammatical faults since the beginning :P )

This week-end i will get another test for your tape... i promise you :wink:

[lunar]

(Lance, FYI

http://www.ericcantona.co.uk/

http://freespace.virgin.net/tony.smith/cantona.htm

http://www.ericcantona.com/

the world needs more Cantonas. )

[Jetlag]

Hi,

I've found the best way to get a turbo stat on Sargamartha is to not touch the X button until halfway between 2 and 1, (actually slightly closer to 2 than 1). I hardly ever miss a start doing it like this, and I can concentrate on my line for the first corner, rather than having to watch the bar, or remember to press the button again.

I find this technique so easy that I use it on all the tracks, it takes a bit of practice in the first place but it is definatly worth it.

Tim Few

PS I still am yet to be convinced by the brake turbo idea, my times seem to be totally competitive without it and I have never noticed a difference when trying it.

[lunar]

turbo-braking does work, I assure you. An easy place to make it happen is on the straight at Sagarmatha - at Rapier or Phantom. When you are up to top speed just lightly tap one of your brakes and watch your speed increase. Its a very difficult technique to harness effectively though. I can`t say for sure its ever given me a faster time, except on TR at rapier.

[Dimension]

again I know i'm posting far too much on a forum that i don't have the game for, but i'm really curious, does the brake tapping work at all on other versions of wipEout and do you need a neggy or something? Even easier, is there a topic I can read up on this in? I have no idea what forum that would be in :o

[Asayyeah]

I can assure it works on many Wipeout: ive tested the airbrakes technique on 2097 ( the first one i ve noticed it works) but also W30 + SE + Fusion .

In the piloting tips from that forum ive talked about that and i will find another link in a previous topic i wrote in 2004

[Jetlag]

I tried it agian last night and seemed to notice a difference of Vector, but when I tried on Phantom, the effect was so small ( 5to 10 kph on the x2 pad in the tunnel) and it was ruining my lines!!! So I'm still not coninced of the benifits.

PS Which one of you is Arnaud? I wish you could use knicknames on the lap times grid.

PPS I shall try and post the rest of my times this week, but I don't have times for TR and Spilskinanke, my house mate manged to beat me on these tracks!!! He will be posting his times soon.

[infoxicated]

PS Which one of you is Arnaud? I wish you could use knicknames on the lap times grid.
Hover your mouse over their names and it'll tell you the nick name if they've updated their profile. :)

[Dimension]

I've tried brake tapping multiple times on W3O arnaud and it seems to have no effect, I used Hi Fumii at phantom as the test subject, spectated upon my top speed etc. down the back straight and my MPH figures were no better when tapping the brakes over the pads, maybe there' something i'm doing wrong :?

[Asayyeah]

Jetlag : it's me Arnaud :wink:

Alistair : Even for me with at least 6 years of practising i can't perfectly reproduce each time that technique. It's not only by tapping quickly on airbrakes that this manouevre works, it depends on few other facts like the nose pitch or ifyou need to correct your line or not after tapping them...
I know it works on other Wipeout as i said above but each wipeout has his own ' behaviour' : I mean when you start a race each wipeout has its own way to do a turbo start , right? that's the same way it is for Braking Technique.
I think ive found nearly the best way to use that with 2097 but i didn't spent much time on W30 or SE : the only thing i know is it's different from 2097 but it works too.

[Dimension]

alright cheers arnaud, i'll put some time into practising that then, always worth a go I suppose :)

[Asayyeah]

i could also record & compress a W3O PK Phantom race with external view, you could see much better how the craft taking speed on blue pads, but not now :(
i need to finish my 2097real video ( so really difficult but very interesting)

[Dimension]

if you ever have time then yeah please, if you could... But still, I feel i've got to try it for myself now, could be the other deciding factor that loses me so much time :)

*edit* i've been testing pretty hard this idea around PK at phantom (W3O PAL) and I thus far have yet to se anything more than a 10-20 boost, what you tend to find going over speed pads usually really :? it seems you get a little sound kind of like a jet of air specifically when you have the nose high in the air if you try this, though nose down doesn't seem to do much. Guess i'll try somewhere else... :)