attn: Al Sartwell

[rejj]

I highly doubt you got your vector sagarmatha time trial time with a Feisar. I suspect you just forgot to pick the correct craft when submitting the time.
You might want to fix that. :P

[Wiseman]

Actually, ever since infox tried to put in the Wipeout XL/2097 tables, the whole WZ tables have gone completely haywire. Times have been duplicated and overwritten all over the place. I wouldn't even worry about any of it (trying to change it might cause even more problems) until the site upgrade is complete.

[Synthetic Consciousness]

Don't be so sure...Al's capable of some incredible feats. Either he's a mutant with reality/probability-warping powers, or he's a robot sent from the future to kill us all...or at least kick our collective butts at wipEout. Take that, puny mortals. :P

[zargz]

Actually, ever since infox tried to put in the Wipeout XL/2097 tables, the whole WZ tables have gone completely haywire. Times have been duplicated and overwritten all over the place. I wouldn't even worry about any of it (trying to change it might cause even more problems) until the site upgrade is complete.

is the data stored somewhere for the time beeng or will we upload all our times again?
I mean when the upgrade is done .. ( '_' ? )

[Lance]

.
i hope we still have all the times and haven't accidentally wiped any memory cards. i did that once back in my early days here and had to work for a week to get them back. and that was only vector class races and at a rather low standard of performance. it would take a lot longer now
.

[infoxicated]

The data is all still there, it's just that something has gone a little wahoo with the way it's being retrieved from the database.

In the new version of the site I have completely re-done all the database code and it works fine. Sorry it's taking so long, but I mis-judged the effort needed for all the changes I'm making to the time-update pages.

[Lance]

.
the code for the tables always did seem to be a huge can of worms just waiting for the lid to come off :O
.

[infoxicated]

Well... I took it off and it turned out to be a bottomless can! :lol:

Now working on a Ghostbusters style containment field solution that'll keep those worms from mischief ;)

[Synthetic Consciousness]

Remember to encase the electron containment field within a positively-charged high-density steel grid. Otherwise all hell will break loose, and we'll be up to our eyeballs in worms.

...I need sleep. :oops:

[Lance]

.
and i need to have food stay inside me for more than 2 hours and to exit as solid instead of as liquid mush. er... TMI

hm, at least Al only has to read the first post. :D
.

[TYSON]

Synthetic Consciousness Wrote:


Don't be so sure...Al's capable of some incredible feats. Either he's a mutant with reality/probability-warping powers, or he's a robot sent from the future to kill us all...or at least kick our collective butts at wipEout. Take that, puny mortals.

Actually, if Al is using a modded NTSC PS2 to play this game (PAL) then his times do not count, & I highly doubt that if YOU had the same setup your times would be that far behind. There are technical advantages with this setup that may give a few seconds advantage over the appropriate system i.e. PAL PS2 with PAL game.

:lol:

[lunar]

Well we won`t know until Al himself says how he plays it, will we? :D

I don`t understand the science behind it, but if playing on a modchipped PS or PS2 can change the speed of the game, it could also make the game slower couldn`t it? I think your point might be valid but until we have an understanding of the technical background to it all, and find out what system Al uses, I think its best to assume Al is an awesome pilot, which he is whatever!

Anyway Tyson good luck with your SE quest! Even if you try to forget about AS there are some colossal Pal pilots out there, Zargz and Vasudeva to name the two best I think.

[Lance]

.
don't forget that if the game runs faster, it is more difficult
.

[TYSON]

lunar wrote:


Well we won`t know until Al himself says how he plays it, will we?

Well yes that's true, Al are you there?

I doubt very much that Al decided to buy a genuine PAL PS2 then got a trasformer just so he could plug it into the wall. I think I actually saw him talking about the messiah modchip somewhere else. It makes no diff what the modchip is though... if one is used then this indirectly & at the moment 'innocent cheating' that is: not knowing that an advantage is present.


I don`t understand the science behind it, but if playing on a modchipped PS or PS2 can change the speed of the game, it could also make the game slower couldn`t it?

Nope it can't make the game slower, infact what it can do is make the game play slower but still give extreme times that are reletive to a higher framerate. Basically in english the player could get awesome times by playing the game in 'slight' slow mode. While everyone else has to put up with astronomical speed, this other player just sits back and relaxes with 5 easy perfect laps etc.

post edited by author

Tyson :lol:

[lunar]

Well lunar, I wouldn't have bothered mentioning this problem if my point was not valid.
Tyson :lol:[/quote]

Neither would I believe your point was valid just because you mentioned it.

Now at least you have provided some sort of argument to back up your statement.

:roll:

Though you still haven`t explained the technicalities in anything other than general terms. You haven`t explained how this actually happens - you just stated that it does.

And please drop the false modesty too - if you really got that time you`re obviously very good and you know it, well done.

cheers

[infoxicated]

You know, every so often you get someone who posts in the same way that Tyson does. Mostly it's on the official fusion board with all the other ass-clowns, but there is an exception to every rule.

Tyson... up until the arrogant **** at the end of your post, I might have entertained you. Really, honestly, I might have. But then you disappeared off the radar for me... right up your own ass, I suspect.

Calling people "dude" does not give you a free pass for what is poorly disguised posturing.

Cheers, dude. Not.

:roll:

[Lance]

.
Tyson, you assumed that you understood the point of the remark. you didn't understand. i'll try to be less subtle in any future remarks to you.

infox, i think you are probably correct in your speculation on the point of his disappearance. he is quite obsessed with his own ego
.

[TYSON]

infox wrote:

You know, every so often you get someone who posts in the same way that Tyson does. Mostly it's on the official fusion board with all the other ass-clowns, but there is an exception to every rule.

Tyson... up until the arrogant **** at the end of your post, I might have entertained you. Really, honestly, I might have. But then you disappeared off the radar for me... right up your own ass, I suspect.

Calling people "dude" does not give you a free pass for what is poorly disguised posturing.

Cheers, dude. Not.


um... ok infox I am totally sorry about that but I think your over reacting slightly. Lance if you took offence please accept my opology. I wasn't trying to be arrogant or anything just thought that you'd honestly not thought about the comment as I have obviously done! Doh! I just meant that faster game doesn't actually make any difference.

is there anything else I should opologise for?

infox are you really that angry with me?!

I honestly don't understand what your talking about, this is the first time ive sat down and played W3 SE properly & I was saying that I've played for about an hour or so with such and such time. I have Never actually looked at the W3 SE scoreboard & I assumed that my time was a pile of crap. Because the scoreboard is not up, i could not go see for myself. Does this make me an "ass clown" lol.

Arogance is far too easy to be read into from text messaging, it's actually based on the reader and not the writer. Interperetation is pretty important & I'm very sorry if I've come across as stupid, arrogant or otherwise. I'm apsolutely genuine on this guys, please forgive me.

:cry:

[Lance]

.
aside from its suggestive qualities about the value of speed records, my remark about about a game [ a racing game] being made more difficult by being faster holds true. and in keeping with my promise to avoid subtlety with you, Tyson: you are an arrogant, ego-obsessed asshole.
.

[TYSON]

Hi Lance,
Why the preshool naming? almost everyone here is an ego obsessed maniac. Specially if your after good times etc.

Sad to see you guys so angry, surely you can accept that I am an ego head? big deal, so what. I honestly don't think that I put you down at all, it was more of a joke than anything.

:roll:

[Lance]

.
there was nothing pre-school about it; it was a fully considered response to the qualities you have displayed in virtually every post you have made since you became a member on this board. your statement that everyone here is an ego-obsessed maniac is clearly false. most of us are quite self-deprecating, but you, on the other hand are constantly prating about your world records on Twin Galaxies [or whatever its name is], and you seem on the face of it to have no interests in your life apart from this, since you never speak of anything other than videogame records and the process and hardware used to obtain them. granted that this board is centred on a group of videogames, yet the conversation often wanders off to other areas of life. i do not recall your having made a single post that was concerned with anything other than videogames or our direct reactions to your posts. this shows your obsession with this subject, and your obsession is precisely what overpowers your judgement. your bragging, for that is what it is, no matter how much you try to disguise it, is something that is done by virtually no one else here, because they do not consider excellence in videogames to be the be-all and end-all of their existence. but you seem to regard it as exactly that. it is your bragging and your puerile unbalanced outlook that offends other people. it either blinds you to the offensiveness of your posts or it is just simply so powerful that even though you do realise what you are doing, you cannot stop yourself from doing it.

and by the way, claiming that it was a joke is the last defence of someone who has been criticised for being a jerk
.

[Lance]

.
and before i forget, Tyson:

'' I honestly don't think that I put you down at all''
bragging about one's excellence is by its very nature a put-down of the people being bragged to. it is a thing done by people who are very incomplete humans. i hope that you are still a young person, which would mean that you will eventually outgrow this limited phase you seem to be in
.
.

[TYSON]

Hi Lance,
Well I guess I better make a small contribution. Yes I'm aware that I don't talk about much else other than wipeout but I thought this site was about wipeout... erm... isn't it? I guess if I'd had enough time I would have posted some other comments but I could hardly see the point..

For the most of your comments apart from the silly name calling I actually agree that I'm waay over the top when it comes to stating my scores etc. I'm sorry that it thrills me when i get a good time & yes admitedly I become overly proud. I've looked over many things ive said in the past & wished I'd worded things differently but fraid I can't help what I've already written.

Also just to reply about the TG scores that I got, I don't understand why you would be so concerned about me writing that down? I didn't actually state something like "stuff you all no one can beat me!" but from your thread some members may believe I said something like that. Infact I don't expcet those tiny records to last at all as they are the first submitted (yep it's as silly as that) & everyone under the sun will be shooting to beat them. If I am guilty of anything it was wanting 15 seconds of fame.

Actually i do lots of other things, amazingly I go out on the town every now and again, play a few sports for recreation, goto movies... lot's of common stuff. I never thought anyone would care really, yes i do find Video games far more interesting to talk about, guilty.

Hope im not still in trouble.

Tyson

[Lance]

.
''... but I could hardly see the point.''
exactly the problem. and also responsible for the seemingly smart-assed tone of the first paragraph of your reply.

''I don't understand why you would be so concerned about me writing that down? I didn't actually state something like "stuff you all no one can beat me!"''

just because a thing is not stated does not mean that it is not implied and is intended to be implied. do you see other people here [who are like yourself in being enthusiastic gamers] making frequent references to their times? Do you see Al Sartwell doing that? he lets his times speak for themselves to anyone who looks at the times tables. i'm sure he is proud of his accomplishments, but he does not frequently refer to them in order that people will not forget how good he is.

there was a racing driver named Juan Manuel Fangio, who won the World Championship five times in seven years. he is generally regarded as the greatest racing driver who has ever lived. in 1991, on the occasion of a dinner attended by other racing drivers and motorsports journalists honoring Fangio as he was about to turn 83 years old, Stirling Moss, who was my hero as a racing driver when i first discovered international motor sports, toasted Fangio by saying this:
''Fangio is a humble man, great in his humility.''
that is how he is remembered, a man at the absolute pinnacle of his chosen profession who never put his achievements in front of anyone's face.

i wish i could be even half as great as Fangio in that respect. i wish you could be, too
.

[TYSON]

Hi Lance,
Well thanks for being honest, implied things are very tricky to put on people though but I can certainly see your point. It's nice to see some progress here, the fact that you stated about me writing down TG scores upset you, well I'll remove all references if necessary & will never post times again if this will help redeem me even a little. There's no way I want you to be so angry with me Lance, if there is anything else that may help, just say so.

:oops:

[Lance]

.
no removal is necessary

people generally know when they are being implied upon

i made a mistake as to Fangio's age at the time. he was going on 80

and don't be so excessively repentant. going over the top like that makes it seem smarmy and insincere
.

[TYSON]

Hi Lance,
Thanks for that, won't make anymore opology's etc.

So what are you working on at the moment? i've been playing Tomb Raider again, i like that old game, have you played any of the TR's?

:)

seeya

[zargz]

is there any differance between the ntsc JAP and ntsc US/Can? ('_'?)
coz I play my jap AND us wo3 on a JAP psx! (^__^)v
z

[TYSON]

Hi Z,
Good question, is the Jap version named XL for wipeout 2 by the way? (always wondered that). Japan & North american disc's are both NTSC so maybe the wipeout programers didn't bother changing anything as it would have just wasted time. Remember Scott Naylor said that they made the game differently according to the country? Well with that said the jap version maybe diff but not likely. It's mainly pal & ntsc that are, dun worry about using your ntsc game on an ntsc system shouldn't think it would be a problem. I was only talkin about pal to ntsc & vice versa modchips. if your using one on a ntsc system to play an ntsc game (from japan) all the modchip has to do is bypass the country code, it doesn't screw up the framerates etc as theyre the same.

hope this helps a little & isn't confusing.

:lol:

[science]

there is a difference in the japanese and american wo3's, to the best of my recollection. I remember seeing a video on a japanese wipeout site of an icarus ship doing like a 12 second lap (maybe less!) on hi fumi by basically flying over the whole effing track. needless to say, the icarus ship's attributes were beefed up in the japanese version. there's surely a post about it somewhere in the archives...

[Lance]

.
that is too much beef
.

[lunar]

OMG its all getting very complicated! :-? We need about 30 different tables and Infox will go mad!

Basically I think the 3SE table should be limited to people playing on an unmodified Pal PS2 on a 50Hz Panasonic TV in the territory of the south western corner of England within 15 miles of the M4 corridor, as variations in the electrical current and atmospheric pressure in the rest of Europe could provide people with an advantage. :wink:

[Lance]

.
you are exactly correct sir. well done!
;D
.

[science]

I'll buy my ticket tomorrow.

[TYSON]

lunar wrote:

OMG its all getting very complicated! We need about 30 different tables and Infox will go mad!

Basically I think the 3SE table should be limited to people playing on an unmodified Pal PS2 on a 50Hz Panasonic TV in the territory of the south western corner of England within 15 miles of the M4 corridor, as variations in the electrical current and atmospheric pressure in the rest of Europe could provide people with an advantage.

ha ha ha, yeah good example, hopefully it won't come to that, just so it can be fair.

Science wrote:

there is a difference in the japanese and american wo3's, to the best of my recollection. I remember seeing a video on a japanese wipeout site of an icarus ship doing like a 12 second lap (maybe less!) on hi fumi by basically flying over the whole effing track. needless to say, the icarus ship's attributes were beefed up in the japanese version. there's surely a post about it somewhere in the archives...

Wow, this is intesting, has the scoreboard ever had a Japanese player submit times? If the answer is no then i guess your most likely 100% correct science. out of all the games that i've known with scoring differences, there has only ever been a max of Japan NTSC, North American NTSC, and Euro UK - Australia PAL.

Good thing about W3 SE is that it's one region only, bad thing is everyone else missed out on the game in their native format eg. NTSC N.A.

It would be hard to work out if the original wipeout, & wipeout XL differed from each other across Japan NTSC & N.A. NTSC. Don't suppose anyone can find out?

I would assume this so far:

Wipeout PAL - UK, Euro, Australia
Wipeout NTSC - N.A. & Japan (maybe)

Wipeout 2097 PAL - UK, Euro, Australia
Wipeout XL NTSC - N.A. & Japan (maybe)

Wipeout 64.... This would be a good one to confirm, is there any know differences between PAL & NTSC W 64?

Wipeout 3 PAL - Uk, Euro, Australia
Wipeout 3 NTSC - N.A.

Wip3out for japan. ( I'll assume that science is right here, especially after Scott Naylor explained how the game was changed depending on the region. I think also if that spelling is the true form of wipeout 3 for japan then maybe the programers were showing it was different, just like XL & 2097 had different names. Just a theory anyway).

Wipeout 3 Special Edition PAL - UK, Euro, Australia (oh well at least theres just one version!)

So that's 9 distinct versions with a possibility of 12 if the Japanese versions turn out to be different.

jesh, that's alot to keep up with!

[zargz]

Wipeout 3 PAL - Uk, Euro, Australia
Wipeout 3 NTSC - N.A.
intresting how u divide uk and euro althou the ARE the same! (^___^)
they dont have the same money but hey, here in sweden we dont have euros either 8)

the wo3jap actually is the best of the 3 versions (pal, us & jap) it's the closest1 to se -
it's got:

autoload
bigger font
and the 5th and 6th prototypes included in se!

[TYSON]

Hi Zarg:

Zarg Wrote:

intresting how u divide uk and euro althou the ARE the same! (^___^)
they dont have the same money but hey, here in sweden we dont have euros either

Um yeah, i should have just put Europe & Aus.



the wo3jap actually is the best of the 3 versions (pal, us & jap) it's the closest1 to se -
it's got:
autoload
bigger font
and the 5th and 6th prototypes included in se!

OMG really! well that's a definite confirmation that its different!

Hey Zarg what are the stats on the Icarus for the Japanese version?
& just out of curiosity, is the game spelt as Wip3out & not Wipeout 3?

Wow, i might see if i can get that now off ebay. Thanks Z

:D

[zargz]

I'll check the stats.
u might need a jap psx to play it!

[TYSON]

I'll check the stats.
u might need a jap psx to play it!

Thanks Z, yeah i figured i'd need a jap psx for score submissions, but I think i'll just not bother if i do get the version. I'll submit times for W3 SE because it's pal & I have a pal system, that way i'll avoid any problems with modchips etc.

:lol:

[zargz]

OMG really! well that's a definite confirmation that its different!

Hey Zarg what are the stats on the Icarus for the Japanese version?
& just out of curiosity, is the game spelt as Wip3out & not Wipeout 3?

Wow, i might see if i can get that now off ebay. Thanks Z
:D
the icaras has 3 in turning and the assegai 2 shield it's the same as in the se
it's as close se as u can come without beeng it! (^_^)
in som ways even better - u can see the replay as many times as u want!

there were some other suff I noticed yesterday when I checked ..
oh yeah in the ls5 and 6 the cockpit view is NOT 'animated' as in the other 4 it's like the 'real' thing if u no what I mean.

[JABBERJAW]

I do not have a modded ps2, never got the chip put in. It wouldn't affect the times anyways as if the game runs faster the time runs faster as well making it extremely difficult. I originally did this with a modded ps1 and a modded wo3se game to run as pal. My times were much slower than when I got a pal ps2(and a Power converter!!!) because it was hard to react that quickly. I tried to change the feisar time a while ago(to an Icarus), but I guess it didn't take.

[JABBERJAW]

japanese times should not be allowed for ntsc using icarus being that the times are normally between 1-3 seconds faster because of the handling being 1 better. Sometimes even the icarus is still slower though because the turbo scraping is not as prevalent in that version. The rest of the ships are actually slower because of the turbo scrape difference. As far as the ship flying way above the track, this does not happen in the japanese version. the ships feel very heavy in that version and do not float above the ground as well as the american version(on jumps). What I think you saw was ls1o5 or ls106(two extra tracks for that version and then wo3se). these tracks can only be used with prototype ships that have a top speed of 10 !!! THe ship gets really out of control if you can last a couple of laps without hitting(acceleration is only 3 so it takes a while to speed up to top speed). The colors on one of these tracls is kinda boring like hi fumii. Where was that website so I can check it out?

[TYSON]

Zoolander Wrote:


I do not have a modded ps2, never got the chip put in. It wouldn't affect the times anyways as if the game runs faster the time runs faster as well making it extremely difficult. I originally did this with a modded ps1 and a modded wo3se game to run as pal. My times were much slower than when I got a pal ps2(and a Power converter!!!) because it was hard to react that quickly. I tried to change the feisar time a while ago(to an Icarus), but I guess it didn't take.

You bought the most expensive modchip on the market, then didn't even get it installed? erm... lol ok.
My Messiah Modchip is excellent, I can play all NTSC games perfectly on my PAL system, I'm not sure that I'd ever go to the trouble of buying an ENTIRE PAL system including a Power Converter just so i could play one game...


japanese times should not be allowed for ntsc using icarus being that the times are normally between 1-3 seconds faster because of the handling being 1 better. Sometimes even the icarus is still slower though because the turbo scraping is not as prevalent in that version.

Yep I think it's fair to say that the Japanese version is completely different, it would require a whole new scoreboard. :wink:

Al, could you give me some tips for Porta Kora (Time Trial - Phan), I can't get any faster on this stupid track, do i need to pit at all? I don't pit & I use my hyperthrust for the big jump.

Thanks :lol:

[science]

I'm not sure that I'd ever go to the trouble of buying an ENTIRE PAL system including a Power Converter just so i could play one game...

And that is where you lack dedication, young padawan learner.

[Lance]

.
:D
exactly what i was thinking.

except for the padawan learner part
.

[JABBERJAW]

which version of the game do you want advice on?

[science]

I dont know that there is a track where it puts you at a disadvantage to pit as long as youre using your hyperthrust correctly...

[Task]

Whether or not you should pit is a pilot-determined thing.
If, by pitting, you can collect enough energy to make up for the time you lose by pitting, then you should pit! So it's a very pilot and track specific thing.
For example, on Terminal I can pit quicker than I can not pit, so I _always_ pit on Terminal. Ditto for MegaMall. However, on PK, I can't pit for the life of me. Every time I pit I lose time. So I never pit on PK unless I absolutely haveto. Same with Stanza.
Now, you don't need a stopwatch to tell whether or not you're gaining or losing time, you should be able to instinctively tell. If the whole "pitting experience" goes slick and smoothly, then you pit well on that track. If, OTOH, it's a chore to pit and you nearly slam every wall just to make it into that damn recharge zone, then you're likely better off not pitting at all there.

You should be able to tell by practicing just a little bit.
A good way to do this is to go for a dozen points of Eliminator. My personal favourite way of learning any given track. 8 )

[JABBERJAW]

Using Icarus on phantom is faster to not pit on some tracks(stanza comes to mind). Some tracks using Icarus it's fastest to do both on certain laps.

[science]

I pit on Stanza Inter when i remember to. My time is only a couple of seconds behind yours right now (I desperately need to update my times), and theres still room for improvement. I'm not so sure that not pitting is faster...

[TYSON]

Zoolander wrote:


Using Icarus on phantom is faster to not pit on some tracks(stanza comes to mind). Some tracks using Icarus it's fastest to do both on certain laps.

Yeah this is what I was theorising. I'm working on Porta Kora & I guess this is why i don't like the W3 series games as much, there's just too much technical mumbo jumbo to deal with. Oh well I'll have a go.

W 3 Special Edition: Porta Kora Time Trial Phantom: Icarus
I figure that for the 1st lap I need to use up most of my hyperthrust to make up for starting from a dead start, then maybe go past the pits first, then pit second, third, fourth then zoom past the pits in the last lap. What does ppl think about that strat?

:wink:

[JABBERJAW]

I pit every time on porta kora. The trick for 3se is on the first uphiill jump go just to the right of the track off the jump with a light touch of the turbo and you can land toward the beginning of the tunnel(further if you want but it is more difficult to line up the turns and I don't think it's as fast anyway.

[JABBERJAW]

What is you time on stanza? TT or race

[science]

TT. I always play TT until i get a top spot, then i do SR. Right now, I dont know what my time is. My memory card, my games (all of them) and even my negcon are sitting at a friends house right now. Why? Because I dont have a playstation anymore. Yes, I know- It's very sad. I just havent had the money to buy one since I moved. I was using my friend's PS2, but he had a gaming relapse and took it back. I'll update all of my times next time I head over to his house.
None of them are record breakers (Yet...).

[TYSON]

Hi Zoolander,
Thanks for the tips, I figured I'd have to get used to those silly pits one of these days... guess I'm just a bit apprehensive or somethin. Oh well, makes for a good challenge.

That first jump is a good place to do a bit of hyperthrust (just like you said), do you think there is anywhere else we need to turbo slightly? Maybe as you come around that last left hand bend facing the pits & start/finish line?

& Science,
Hope you can get a playstation ASAP, not sure what i'd do without mine. Maybe you could get a good deal with all the christmas specials floating around?


:wink: