Large Scale Community Tournament [Archive]

mannjon

22nd June 2017, 10:32 PM

wat

no.

Hoping that was sarcastic... but if not, since WO has become such a niche title, we need that type of community event. To not only raise awareness, but take up as much bandwidth on the servers that the participation rate can't be ignored. We can talk about what we'd like and speculate about the future of WO all we want, but at some point we need to start taking action.

In the past, tournaments have not only sparked interest, but they have lead to ongoing events. Take Avalon for example. Based on your join date, I'm sure you know what that was. There is still an ongoing thread for that tournament, and that was ages ago. While Avalon is not a specific event anymore, it has lead to constant online participation of regular players, and has led to things like the friday night flyabouts. We need this to show the IP keyholders that there is not only interest, but that it is a stable and constant interest.

Since this is not an official thing yet, I'm curious to what people would like to see for a well organized large community event. GMT times can be problematic, but I personally don't mind staying up late or getting up early.

I have a couple of ideas:

1. Start a league. Kind of like bowling. This would start out as an ongoing set of match ups against teams of 4 (so you can have 2 teams face off). Once the official event is over, it would be cool to have a casual league type of play where you get together periodically and have team match ups. This could either be a huge event, or a smaller ongoing event based on participation.

2. "Wipeout Generations" The idea here is to pair up new pilots with HD/Fury and 2048 veterans. Choose you own team, but each team would consist of newer pilots and those pilots that got a Transcendance medal for the older games. To keep things competitive for the new pilots, I suggest doubling their score. So a 4th place finish would be worth 8 points, and so on. Example: two teams face off. Each team has two veterans, and each team also has two newer pilots. First, let's assume the veteran pilots finish 1-4.

1. 8 points (veteran)
2. 6 points (veteran)
3. 5 points (veteran)
4. 4 points (veteran)
5. 3*2 = 6 points (new pilot)
6. 2*2 = 4 points (new pilot)
7. 1*2 = 2 points (new pilot)
8. 1 point for trying (new pilot)

Now, let's assume that the two vets place 3rd and 4th, but the two newer pilots on the same team place 5th and 6th. This is where it gets interesting, because 5+4+6+4 = 19 total points. 8+6+2+1 = 17. So in a matchup result like that, the new pilots on your team just won you the match. I think this keeps things balanced where everyone can have a good time.

I believe this system would make the newer pilots feel more connected and that they made a difference. Also, if a new pilot were to place above a veteran, they REALLY start to make an impact, because just placing 4th would give them as many points as the winner. If a new pilot made a miraculous 1st place finish, they would get the point equivalent of winning 2 races. This would be enough to keep me on my toes for sure, and winning a match would be based heavily on coaching your teammates. This is kind of like telling all the elite pilots to put their money where their mouth is.

AdHoc

23rd June 2017, 02:53 AM

Great ideas. It's just that believing a new title rests solely on what would ultimately be a couple extra lobbies when sometimes there's exactly 0 online lobby in Europe midweek during the day and no more than 5-6 during the weekend is a bit naive. I can guarantee that Sony won't be looking at that at all. I command you for the motivation though!

mannjon

23rd June 2017, 04:48 AM

I mean we gotta do something, and regular events wouldn't hurt. It isn't the answer; I realize that.

But this is really more of just scratching an itch. I mean we finally get a PS4 release. Many of us figured we would never even get that too. I remember all the excitement when those "Wipeout Deception" mockups emerged. And now that we have it, where are all the epic tournaments? Just feels like that aspect is missing, no?

Has anything been planned at all on a grander scale?

Deaths_trooper

23rd June 2017, 08:05 AM

Suggestion:
Seeing as this topic is currently debating a way to increase online activity for certain reasons, how about this.
Aside from any tournaments;

Create a psn party chat (the type you stay in, even when you go offline).
Invite all active members from to forums, and maybe even all active players online that you come across who dont know about this community, but who seem to be serious about wipeout.

An example: for those who played wo2048 on vita and have the trophies, there was a trophy to complete 210 challenges online. Some requiring you to win. However the game was deserted online and you needed 4 in a lobby to start the game.

I created a group chat and invited players based on trophy stats and recent trophy activity. At one point we had 20-25 people in the chat. Some installed the chat on their phones and tablets, i did this as well. If there was anyone available to play, they would post in the chat and sometimes 10 minutes later we would be playing online.

I think we could easily get 50-100 people in a chat for WOOC.
Might help setting up a tournament in the future too.

Hellfire_WZ

23rd June 2017, 08:13 AM

OBH

23rd June 2017, 11:40 AM

Small ones that don't require a lot of time worked very well previously. It would be a good way to get people into the swing of things?

The SL / TT challenges where you had to use certain ships was hugely popular.

mannjon

23rd June 2017, 02:59 PM

I will be trying to put together something over the next month just to test the waters. XDEV have already told me they will help publicise any large scale community events that will be running so exposure won't be an issue :) Any and all ideas for a format are welcome!

Let me know if you need some ideas. I've posted a couple. I also would like to handle some of the marketing efforts graphics-wise or official soundtrack-esque, like what has been done in the past (there was a track list for Equilibrium and a youtube link so people could tune in to the same song list which I thought was kind of cool).

Are themed tournaments still viable? Or does this need to be more of a free for all just race type of thing?

OBH

23rd June 2017, 06:48 PM

I think you're thinking too hard about this mate. Any idea is viable if people like it and want to get involved :+

Hellfire_WZ

23rd June 2017, 10:37 PM

I would suggest that it isn't something team based. That puts a lot of pressure on all team members to turn up for the tournament to work. However, I do like theidea of something that may put newer players on equal footing with more experienced ones. I don't want to launch something that would only be seen as something that could be won by the elite.

Revo

23rd June 2017, 10:59 PM

Racingfan

23rd June 2017, 11:56 PM

2 omega cups? one for newer and one for the elite?

mannjon

24th June 2017, 12:01 AM

Maybe separate league for younger (under 18 or so) pilots? The age would be the only fair criteria by which we could divide players (It would also indicate experience level at some rate, more or less).

Tell that to Yeldar back when he set all his WR's. Age is definitely not a determining factor in skill. I consider myself pretty good, and your train of thought would seem to definitely apply here, because I've played and owned each title.

However the truth is that I just know the game physics because I've played it before. I think a better criteria would be something like "who has played in the past" and "who is fairly new to this." I can't race well on the original anymore. I know because I tried it yesterday. It was not a heartwarming experience. But I remember being around 10 maybe, when the first WO came out, and I recall beating the whole thing on both speeds in just under an hour or so. I would argue I was waaaaaaay better at it back then, but then again, it had different physics than what I'm used to now and it takes time to adjust.

I am not so good at 2048, despite having it on the Vita. Once again, age doesn't have anything to do with it because I was ironically far better at it on the Vita with what I would argue are inferior controls.

I am glad to see younger pilots here though. That was actually kind of where I was going with the Generations idea, only it wasn't age, but familiarity that would have come into play. Hell, I can tell my reflexes are worse than they were 5 years ago, and I'm under 35. Also, there is no way to move into a different tier of pilot if age is the restriction. Saying "pros only" means anyone can join, but expect the competition to be fierce. If you aren't pro enough, it will certainly show. But restricting the already somewhat small community on things a pilot has no control over doesn't really do the community much good. Also, if I ever stop playing (and I won't) I'd like to pass the torch to people I've raced with before for their skill. Besides, you can learn a lot from the older pilots. Fun story, m first race was a full lobby that had Kalidescopic1er (can't remember how to spell that). Anyways, I lost by about 10 seconds (which was a little disheartening because I thought I was good at this having just beat the campaigns). I learned my lesson that there was elite difficulty and then there was "online elite difficulty." Anyways I got a PM asking me to join a race with a silver ship. I was like "why would I do that? Doesn't everyone fly silver?" After that race I got bling brigade. Easy Peasy. No planning required. Later you learn the intricacies of each track by, guess again, the pros (and youtube)!

The only exception to this is Drunken Master, which legally you would not qualify for! But trust me, Drunken Master races are easy to win if you cheat by being sober ;) I guess we could do team drunk vs team sober. That might be fun. I stop barrel rolling and start "bllrarel rolng" off of the track and such. My only motivation to finish 1st is that I have more time to drink in between races!

And about my tournament idea, since teams are harder to do (Quakes anyone? Bombs? Mines? oops?), maybe the team idea would fare better in Pure Racing, which to me is just multiplayer Time Trials (and is awesome).

TheConzio

24th June 2017, 05:04 AM

Any and all ideas for a format are welcome!

Just a classic and simple tournament with heats, semi finals and a final.

OBH

24th June 2017, 09:18 AM

Personally, I think a grand tournament is better once the game has been out a few months? Plenty of players are still finding their feet, practicing, solely playing racebox etc.

Competitions where you enter as an individual are far easier to manage. Especially if it's a 1vs1 format, or players can simply 'drop-in and drop-out' of a lobby. It's no small feat trying to get players from all over the world in the same lobby, at the same time.

I made a 'winner stays on' suggestion where the challenger could pick the speed, track etc. Then even a complete newbie could compete in an event where they feel most comfortable. It doesnt have to be this obviously! But it's just an example where all you need are 2 players, 1 race, and thats it. No organisation needed at all.

Revo

24th June 2017, 11:18 AM

Tell that to Yeldar back when he set all his WR's. Age is definitely not a determining factor in skill. I consider myself pretty good, and your train of thought would seem to definitely apply here, because I've played and owned each title.

However the truth is that I just know the game physics because I've played it before. I think a better criteria would be something like "who has played in the past" and "who is fairly new to this." I can't race well on the original anymore. I know because I tried it yesterday. It was not a heartwarming experience. But I remember being around 10 maybe, when the first WO came out, and I recall beating the whole thing on both speeds in just under an hour or so. I would argue I was waaaaaaay better at it back then, but then again, it had different physics than what I'm used to now and it takes time to adjust.

I am not so good at 2048, despite having it on the Vita. Once again, age doesn't have anything to do with it because I was ironically far better at it on the Vita with what I would argue are inferior controls.

I am glad to see younger pilots here though. That was actually kind of where I was going with the Generations idea, only it wasn't age, but familiarity that would have come into play. Hell, I can tell my reflexes are worse than they were 5 years ago, and I'm under 35. Also, there is no way to move into a different tier of pilot if age is the restriction. Saying "pros only" means anyone can join, but expect the competition to be fierce. If you aren't pro enough, it will certainly show. But restricting the already somewhat small community on things a pilot has no control over doesn't really do the community much good. Also, if I ever stop playing (and I won't) I'd like to pass the torch to people I've raced with before for their skill. Besides, you can learn a lot from the older pilots. Fun story, m first race was a full lobby that had Kalidescopic1er (can't remember how to spell that). Anyways, I lost by about 10 seconds (which was a little disheartening because I thought I was good at this having just beat the campaigns). I learned my lesson that there was elite difficulty and then there was "online elite difficulty." Anyways I got a PM asking me to join a race with a silver ship. I was like "why would I do that? Doesn't everyone fly silver?" After that race I got bling brigade. Easy Peasy. No planning required. Later you learn the intricacies of each track by, guess again, the pros (and youtube)!

The only exception to this is Drunken Master, which legally you would not qualify for! But trust me, Drunken Master races are easy to win if you cheat by being sober ;) I guess we could do team drunk vs team sober. That might be fun. I stop barrel rolling and start "bllrarel rolng" off of the track and such. My only motivation to finish 1st is that I have more time to drink in between races!

And about my tournament idea, since teams are harder to do (Quakes anyone? Bombs? Mines? oops?), maybe the team idea would fare better in Pure Racing, which to me is just multiplayer Time Trials (and is awesome).

Of course age doesn't determine anything. What I meant is that there would be no other way to divide players by "experience". How would you verify, if someone played WipEout before? Also, "junior" league would promote the game among the younger pilots; also making their own effort into community, making new-gen of speedfreaks.

mannjon

24th June 2017, 09:26 PM

It would be far easier to verify experience because that is something we can all see and confirm/deny ourselves. You could look for previously earned trophies on past games, posted lap record times or similar criteria. It would be far harder to verify that someone is within a certain age range. You'd have to get Id's or something or base it on trust. If someone claims they have played before, anyone can verify that statement by a quick trophy lookup. The likelihood of someone owning HD/Fury or 2048 and NOT having earned a single trophy is incredibly unlikely. I can't look up your age though. You can post whatever you like to the thread about pilot ages, but the only way to verify that is to see an id, which is not safe. That and you could just show someone else's id and no one would know. Your method is impossible to verify.

The idea of any prohibitive league based on uncontrollable factors is not a good idea no matter how you look at it. If I post a tournament for people that like to Pure Race, anyone can join and if you don't fancy weapons, you enter at your own risk. If you post a 18 and under tournament, limiting entry just ensures that no one will participate and it will be off putting to all the people that have played and bought these games since before you were born. Presently, there are only 11 pilots 18 or younger according to the pilot age thread. You might could get everyone interested and have enough for a fully lobby, but that is highly unlikely in my past experience.

Go for it if that is what you like, but trust me. Having played this game a loooooong time, you'll likely have a difficult time rounding up enough interest or people to play that wouldn't just prefer to play in a larger scale open tournament type of thing and I don't recall anyone attempting to have a restrictive league like this before (I could be wrong). It just doesn't vibe with a community feeling imo.

OBH

24th June 2017, 10:08 PM

Your logic is somewhat flawed as well though as not everyone has an interest in chasing trophies or world records. You could solely play multiplayer and be an absolute beast with barely any trophies.

The first thing I did with my PS3 and PS4 was turn off the notifications for trophies. I'm not sure I've looked at the trophies page even once on the PS4, for any game.

If you wanted to split the competition into divisions based on skill you would need a few people to play against everyone and make a judgment call on it with their own eyes.

mannjon

24th June 2017, 11:02 PM

You don't have to chase trophies to get one though. The likelihood of not getting any trophy at all is highly unlikely. But then again having an ace pilot actively racing without anyone noticing is also really unlikely.

The point of the trophies is more in consideration of who had played before and who hadn't. That is easy to verify. But all this doesn't really matter. A junior league may not work for the same reason my idea won't, which is lack of interest or lack of available participants. If you are serious about some junior league, you'll need to expand the age range out from 18. I don't think there are a whole lot of pilots specifically in that range. At least not on wipeoutzone.

The sentiment from the majority seems to be a single pilot non team free for all. I'd still like to have a theme tournament at some time to encourage old and new pilots to race.

OBH

25th June 2017, 08:57 AM

Oh I'm all for the biggest, grandest tournaments with the most amount of participants as possible. I helped (along with a lot of others!) sort out the WO Cup when HD/Fury was out (and to this day I'm still bitter that on a crucial match against Japan on Sebenco I glitched through the floor and got stuck in a loop while I was in first! :beer). So yeah, I love this stuff. It was brilliant to be involved in it.

The point is that the game had been out for some time. We had a large, and very talented, pool of players all keen to get involved, and a number of other, smaller tournaments had already been very successful. A lot of players were already used to racing in the AVALON league which I swear had been going for ages, and posting their times on the SL / TT challenges each week. We'd also raced each other thousands of times on the same tracks. 2048 is like a brand new game for me on Omega!

Start small, build up interest, get a dedicated pool of players, work on the main event further down the line :+

Edit:
For what it's worth I also don't think any format based on age is the right thing to do either.

mannjon

25th June 2017, 08:48 PM

That's kind of why I wanted a tourney with both veterans and new pilots now. It would be a way to train up to get that point later where things get super competitive.

The 2048 tracks are still giving me some trouble, so I need to practice up. I am definitely not ready to compete there. You might be right to just wait a bit.

blackwiggle

26th June 2017, 03:41 PM

Personally I think everybody in their respective countries should be trying to get a local Omega AG racing group together, just to bolster the amount of people playing online.
Not having the 'Players Met' function active does hamper this somewhat, like if you happen to be playing out of your usual timezone and happen to see somebody from your in the same room, and want to shoot them a invite.

The vast majority of online play is on a Friday to Sunday from GMT +/- a few hours either side of 4pm to midnight GMT in the EURO region.

You look at the servers anywhere else and there is nothing happening.

We need to get the servers in countries other than the Euro zone humming, and getting small groups playing among themselves first, at their timezone is the way to do it......especially in the USA.
Then think about tournaments.

There just aren't enough people outside the Euro zone to make any tournament a Global affair worthwhile logistically

mannjon

26th June 2017, 08:10 PM

There are at most 4 lobbies in the US during peak times. Most of those aren't full either. What you say is right on the money blackwiggle. Though I've also noticed similar numbers for AUS during the same time. Which, considering it is the opposite time of day, is pretty good actually. How are lobbies during peak times down under?

blackwiggle

26th June 2017, 10:05 PM

Two or three rooms, with maybe 3 or 4 people in a room.
Australia /NZ have a timezone problem as well, depending where you are situated, and if Daylight Savings is in operation, as New Zealand is right on the international timezone boarder at GMT +12, and Perth in western Australia is at GMT +8 and Sydney is GMT +10.
Five hours difference can mean that somebody in NZ will be wanting to go to bed when somebody in W.A. is just coming online, which make it pretty hard to organize anything on a semi regular basis at a time that suits all.

I think most in out timezone basically give up and try to get a race wherever, even though the lag can be horrendous, because waiting around to get a race on the AUS server is just a waste of time for the most part.

TheConzio

27th June 2017, 06:41 AM

I think most in out timezone basically give up and try to get a race wherever, even though the lag can be horrendous, because waiting around to get a race on the AUS server is just a waste of time for the most part.

This is true, I usually play with 2 others (not on WZ) who live in Perth as well and we always just go on the Euro server :P

mannjon

27th June 2017, 02:06 PM

Eu players don't have bed time it would seem. I don't recall ever seeing an empty list.

missmolotov

30th June 2017, 02:59 AM

*looks at the clock* true that! :D

mannjon

30th June 2017, 04:09 AM

Usually the US servers are a lot of Combat/Eliminator anyway. Did those a few times to get the Destroyer of 50 ship trophy then split. Combat ain't my thang. I see a lot of Venom and Flash lobbies in the UK, and I always feel bad joining them because a lot of new pilots hang there. I prefer slower speeds because I like the technical barrel roll challenges of slower speeds. I think because of my flag, I get underestimated too.

Example: A few days ago I got a PM from someone that was obviously owning the lobby until I showed up. After I joined, I was winning by a mean time of about 8 seconds with a standard deviation of about 2 seconds. He PM'd he and said that "I wasn't expecting skills like that from a US pilot, Thnx for races ;)" Sent a new friend request immediately.

Is this a common thing? When you see a US pilot is the sentiment that we are easy targets? I only look for UK lobbies now, because truth be told, the competition is way more fierce in EU. There are a few ace pilots here that are decent. Kronicreaper is pretty decent as well as some others that aren't on my friend list, but I wish pilots like Wizardplay and Onlykpop would show up!

Also, are there any "elite" pilots that don't race Phantom? I don't see many elite pilots on lower speed classes which is a shame. I'm not up to snuff yet on Phantom, but I really love some close Venom/Flash barrel roll until you explode races.

JFthebestJan

30th June 2017, 04:48 AM

...Also, are there any "elite" pilots that don't race Phantom? I don't see many elite pilots on lower speed classes which is a shame...

Well, 'texasalex' and me almost never playing phantom, 2 world class grand masters, who love the technical aspect of the lower classes ;) Phantom has not so many hard BR-combos, as Venom, Flash and even Rapier have. Rapier is my favorite online class, for SL and TT i prefer Venom. Phantom is just being good with lines + a BR here and there and you can fight for the win. In Venom up to Rapier good lines simply aren't enough, you've to know all the secret stuff to go for the crushing win.

mannjon

30th June 2017, 05:31 AM

JF, for just tonight, you win the internet.

we should start a club! I think that it is far more challenging to race at a slower speed with the average speed of the next class up. When I race venom, I typically on average am racing at near Flash speed all the time with all the BRs. We need a High Rollers club. Count me in for a good Venom session sometime ;)

xI-eI2aiiZZa-Ix

30th June 2017, 01:44 PM

In Venom up to Rapier good lines simply aren't enough, you've to know all the secret stuff to go for the crushing win.

Well, even though this is also my credo, you have to admit that Phantom class has advanced in the last 3 years, where having good lines is not enough to be on top of the ladder anymore, at least as far as speedlaps are concerned. There have been a lot of extra double or triple rolls introduced which are also hard to perform. I know online multiplayer isnt s much affected by that progression because the player tend to be more conservative in that mode, but imo it is necessary to be mentioned.
Still, Venom FTW!! ;)

nu9get

3rd July 2017, 02:39 PM

i don't call myself elite player but btw i play a lot of flash venom and rapier online, mannjon, i'm a phantom-based players but i play more flash tbh :D you can always find my in flash or venom lobbies ^_^

SlashStrike

3rd July 2017, 03:31 PM

I would love to be in a tournament. But Microsoft influenced Sony into making Paid Online :( . I cant convince my dad into buying Ps Plus.

Racingfan

3rd July 2017, 05:52 PM

i wonder if ps plus is the reason omega online isnt so active

on the first leaderboard in 2048 campaign, there are 115k players, also not everyone played 2048, so maybe make that 125k?
however on online leaderboards, theres just 26k people, if you finish one match, you will be registered to that board. like... 4/5 didnt play online at all? :|

it used to be pretty active at release, like 45+ lobbies during peak time (all regions)

however nowadays during peak time, its just 15+ (only eu is active now, the other regions are a ghost town)

hopefully future sales/and free on ps plus can make the online more active.

Cipher

3rd July 2017, 05:57 PM

I wish they re-introduced the Purchasable Online Passes for a game (alongside PS+). For people who do not have much time to play or don't play many different games, PS+ is a bit of a waste of money, which is why i think most people don't get it.
A network pass for a single game you like to play online doesn't expire either whereas PS+ does, it kinda kills the online community, which is a bummer :/

OBH

4th July 2017, 08:46 AM

i wonder if ps plus is the reason omega online isnt so active

on the first leaderboard in 2048 campaign, there are 115k players, also not everyone played 2048, so maybe make that 125k?
however on online leaderboards, theres just 26k people, if you finish one match, you will be registered to that board. like... 4/5 didnt play online at all? :|

I was talking to my brother the other day about how when HD/Fury was out all I did was play Phantom multiplayer. Nothing else except a SL now and again. This time around I'm only doing TTs/SLs on 2048 and I haven't even touched HD or multiplayer yet!

I fully intend to, there's just so much content (and a full time job to go to!) that I just haven't found myself online yet.

@Ciper
100% agree with PS+. I don't play enough games online to warrant it, but I keep paying for it.

mannjon

4th July 2017, 04:20 PM

I personally only got PS+ for online play and online saves. They really should do a budget PS+ (call it "PS=" for lols) that is $30 for a year, but doesn't have cloud saves or free games and is only for online play. I've downloaded 3 games ever from PS+ and I don't play them (with Life is Strange being the one exception).

Cloud saves are really useful, but it is so situational that it justify the cost. I pretty much just used it to transfer characters from PS3 Borderlands to PS4 Handsome Jack collection. If my PS4 ever dies, I might be very happy I have all those cloudsaves, but then I'd need a new PS4.

BlackReign

7th July 2017, 05:09 PM

There are a few ace pilots here that are decent. Kronicreaper is pretty decent as well as some others that aren't on my friend list, but I wish pilots like Wizardplay and Onlykpop would show up!

I haven't seen Wizardplay since HD/Fury on PS3. But onlykpop is still around. He goes by celestialemotion now.

mannjon

7th July 2017, 10:46 PM

That would explain the run in and close loss I had with them the other day! Glad to know it's him.

texasalex

18th July 2017, 12:56 PM

Well, 'texasalex' and me almost never playing phantom, 2 world class grand masters, who love the technical aspect of the lower classes ;) Phantom has not so many hard BR-combos, as Venom, Flash and even Rapier have. Rapier is my favorite online class, for SL and TT i prefer Venom. Phantom is just being good with lines + a BR here and there and you can fight for the win. In Venom up to Rapier good lines simply aren't enough, you've to know all the secret stuff to go for the crushing win.

word.

nu9get

18th July 2017, 01:55 PM

Well, 'texasalex' and me almost never playing phantom, 2 world class grand masters

ahhh the modesty, that old friend xD

btw, talking about phantom, i find your 'just' a bit diminutive, sounding like it's the easiest speed class.

JFthebestJan

18th July 2017, 03:58 PM

Well, it's a lot easier to learn Venom than Phantom, but it's also a lot easier to master Phantom than Venom, because of all the advanced SS/BR combo stuff Venom offers. No offense intended here, just a very straight explanation of how i see it.

SoA_Booney

18th July 2017, 05:40 PM

Agreed. Take nothing away from phantom racers though, to nail the lines consistently is very skilful.

mannjon

19th July 2017, 03:37 AM

I'm so glad the slow rollers crowd came out! I totally agree with just about all the points you guys (Booney and JF) are making. I'm average to slightly better than average at Phantom. I've spent more time devoted to learning how to be an acrobat.

It is SOOO much easier to learn venom and SOOO much more difficult to master. In my experience, to succeed on venom, you have to pretty much take risks all the time that will cause you to lose to an average pilot if you mess up. Those shortcuts require precision, as do the triple rolls. At least with Phantom if you slide out of a line you can recover. One missed shortcut and it's game over on venom!

I'd love to do a Venom Masters thing. I don't mind fighting for 3rd place. Do you guys feel that with all the rolls that sometimes you feel like you are racing at Flash or even Rapier speed on average for a track with lots of rolls?

JFthebestJan

19th July 2017, 05:56 AM

...Do you guys feel that with all the rolls that sometimes you feel like you are racing at Flash or even Rapier speed on average for a track with lots of rolls?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYa4cjAB2Yw

it's not just a feeling, it's real :mr-t

SoA_Booney

19th July 2017, 07:48 AM

Would love a venom masters tournament, standard racing and some pure racing too.

JFthebestJan

19th July 2017, 08:42 AM

count me in as well, im sure texasalex is in too

xI-eI2aiiZZa-Ix

19th July 2017, 08:49 AM

Ok, i'm in. wait for me, please :P im gonna borrow a ps4 from my friend. Lol
@JF: On PS3 HD, it was on one track even closer :)
Vineta k Rev venom #1: 22.24s

Vineta k rev flash #2 : 22.13s who was even booney, so no sloth there :D
Vineta k rev flash #3: 22.50s

It happened coincidently, while pushing the maximum out of the track. I noticed it later, but actually liked the idea to be faster than most flash pilots.

But as said, i'm in for some venom/flash tournaments - in August, though. Promised.

mannjon

20th July 2017, 03:31 AM

I'll gladly fight for 3rd! I'm in!

BlackReign

20th July 2017, 02:54 PM

I'd be interested in watching the "Slow Rollers Tourney". Someone please upload those we can see them.

TheConzio

25th August 2017, 07:11 AM

Would we be seeing something soon @Hellfire? ;)

Hellfire_WZ

25th August 2017, 09:19 AM

Sorry, been really busy. Suddenly decided to complicate my life by trying to buy a house. :)

I've been thinking over how we could do this so we might be able to have as wide an ability range taking part as possible, but it's incredibly difficult as there is such an enormous gulf between the best players and beginners. There's only one way I can forsee to try and reduce the gulf a bit - turn off barrel rolls. If they stay on we may as well just give out the awards now.

Is this something people would agree to? If we do do a tournament we MUST make sure it is as accessible as possible to everyone, not just us.

tug_14

25th August 2017, 11:53 AM

It would be good if this type of tournament is the opportunity to bring new players and allow them to shine.

And as hellfire says, there is too much difference between the top class players that we find here and the average quidam who would like to try out wipeout. For me the best solution would be that the top player does not do this tournament but that they are working to promote it.

Mikahail

25th August 2017, 04:08 PM

As Hellfire and tug said, it should be the most accessible possible : forbidding top players to compete, no barrel rolls... both solutions are good IMO.

Why not apply both ? A newcomer tournament with no BRs could appeal a lot of casual players and, if we're short on players, let the top players join since the gap would be slightly reduced.

TheConzio

25th August 2017, 05:10 PM

I don't think we should exclude the top players, that's a little silly. If the barrel rolls are off it just becomes about the racing lines and use of weapons, which I think should be a pretty even playing field.

Side note, happy birthday Mikahail :P

Racingfan

25th August 2017, 08:14 PM

If a tournament with barrel rolls off, it wont help much imo because of skill cuts in 2048 (newer players may not know about it) Pickup RNG in 2048 (turbo spam spam and you can get 2-4 each lap no problem) and theres many spots you can use turbo in 2048 and weapons are very weak in 2048 and extremely unbalanced ships (feisar prototype on C-A on any track except sol, queens mall and altima) and AG systems on every A+ track. Yeah, 2048 has huge balancing issues

unless the tournament is HD only :P

Hellfire, is it gonna be weapons on/off/pure racing? or just weapons on?

Hellfire_WZ

25th August 2017, 09:11 PM

I'm open to ideas, but I think it'll be weapons on as I can see the majority of non-elite players favouring this. Plus it does give less experienced players a chance to catch up. If we do 2048 I may suggest restrictions on craft type dependent on the game mode, and I would be willing to bet that very few of the less experienced players would be up for racing on A+.

SoA_Booney

25th August 2017, 10:08 PM

Guess I'm out then lol. Up for promoting though no problem.

Racingfan

25th August 2017, 10:45 PM

i still think there should be two tournaments

one for newer ones and one for the elite

the newer ones can have barrel rolls disabled and feisar prototype and piranha speed shouldnt be allowed imo

but the elite group the only one not allowed would be feisar prototype

the elite group can have a mix of weapon on and pure, i think 2048 would be best for pure because the RNG is very broken, you can get maybe 20 turbos a race, or you can get a few. and weapons are pretty much useless except missile

as for A+. if ag systems wasnt allowed, feisar would be the best one, feisar isnt a huge difference vs ag sys, but qirex, auricom and piranha is on A+

or make it that everyone has to use a specific ship for that race on 2048 :P

docfo4r

26th August 2017, 11:47 AM

I dunno whats the plan exactly but how about gaining a list of participants?

For example everyone who likes to join [no matter what datetime exactly, just in general] can write her/his name in one of two lists: Beginners and experienced pilots. In that list, there could also be a vote option implemented for barrel rolls off or on.
Or make two tournaments for each skill. One with BRs off, another with BRs on - kinda thing...

All in all it sounds like a great idea. Would be the first tournament I can participate to :)

leungbok

26th August 2017, 01:30 PM

and I would be willing to bet that very few of the less experienced players would be up for racing on A+.
I think this tournament must focus on newcomers to bring more people on the franchise if possible. Top pilots can make their own elite tournament like omnium etc. But would greatly help to promote the event ;)
Maybe something that could attract people would be to create categories to have balanced levels. for example, category D : everybody can enter - category C : players with a ranking around 50000 (the average) on overall single races and time trials. category : B around 10000 etc.
The idea is to create qualifications on each category with the possibility for the best players to access the upper category.
Imo flash (c) class should be selected for the whole tournament and maybe introducing combat races which are very popular for casual players.