11th November update.

[blackwiggle]

New update people.

Copied from the R8 FF site.



Hello Pilots

As some of you may have heard, we have a content update for you today. This content update has taken longer than we wanted, this was due to a mechanic in game undergoing work, which as a result meant it wasn't working in game for a while,
this lead to some of the tracks being unplayable.

The update itself contains a few different things, which are:

- 12 Red Route tracks (11 brand new, 1 carried over from last update because...)
- New handling physics (We want to know how the new physics effects the player of Terminus D1)
- New Heads Up Display
- KERS has been disabled until we've finished working on it
- Removed one of the external camera (the Tail Cam)
- Remaining external camera (Chase Cam) has been tweaked

Notes

- We ask players only use the 'Vixen' craft, as it is currently the only one with the new physics. Also of note is that the Vixen craft values, such as handling and acceleration, have been set with the FF2000 class in mind.
This is because we wanted to get the craft values for the middle craft class first and work from there. The final version of the Vixen will not play like it does in this build.
- The removal of KERS and Tail Cam are only temporary while they, or alternatives are being worked on. We are aware the removal of the camera may not sit well with everyone, but its simply because we want to focus on one external camera at a time
- Some of the Red Routes have jumps that require the pilot pitch at the right time.

We'd love to hear your feedback on how the tracks feel with the new physics, both the 4 complete and 12 Red Routes.

To make you aware we are aiming for the next patch to contain an update to the weapons/upgrade system (this will include a new Garage UI), improved AI to work with the new physics and multiplayer functionality.

As before please breakdown your feedback into sections with the heading of whatever the feedback is regarding.

Rob

[WikEv_512]

Hi everyone !

Just a question, is it a TPP only update ?

Because I'm not part of the TPP and I didn't see anything about an update on steam or on their Facebook...

[blackwiggle]

Yes it's a TPP update

I could slag them off, and berate them for so many stuff up's,....but I know they are a very small team, and their problem is BUILDING THE GAME.

**** Happens...... I , and we long term people on the TPP will know, the R8 team have been hard at it...... **** ! "12 NEW RED TRACKS"... that seems a busy bee to me, plus tweaking handling ... Orgarazamo ...thanks, it's needed IMHO.

Looking forward to testing these babies out, and letting the rest of the world know R8 are still ALIVE & WELL [ HENCE THE HINT - UPDATE YOUR FACEBOOK & STEAM PROFILES ]...your NOT doing yourselves any favors by neglecting these....hell half your interest came from Farcebook & Steam.

EDIT
I've just been having a test drive of the new tracks.
I would say that quite a few of theses tracks are edited versions of previous tracks, MIDTOWN 01 seems like a Earthquake ravaged track from the first or second build that previously had a sort of pipe section that you could corkscrew through....it works a lot better without it.

Several of the tracks now have jumps on them, which some seem to work better than others.....there is one track [Experimental 01] that for some reason I can't complete a single lap on, as my craft doesn't make it over the first jump and falls into the scenery, when respawned it's back at the beginning of the jump and the same thing keeps happening, I've yet to report it yet to see if anybody else it having the same problem.

They have increased the rain effect on Manahatta, a bit too much IMHO, as in some sections there is just too much happening on the screen at the same time, and it's somewhat returned back to the visual mess that it was before we could turn the speed blur and nose flash off in options, God knows how anybody will get around it with those switched on, well at least in Nose Cam view which is what I always use......... the other craft now send up a a small trailing plume of water behind them.... I also noticed the frame rate has dropped significantly on this track, no doubt to the added effects.

The 4 nearly finished tracks Niagara, Manahatta, Atlas Torres and Trans Atol are really looking quite detailed now.

The HUD has had a redesign, instead of all the info being spread out across the bottom of the screen, it's now weapon 1/ Health status / Shield status weapon 2 at the top center, and speed kers charge at bottom center....it's a definite improvement, but I'm not sure of the colour choices, as I find the rather pastel like colours used at the top still not the easiest to read.

One thing that still makes this game very different than any Wipeout at the moment, is the huge reduction of speed of the FF craft when turning compared to any Wipeout craft, and that's without using any air brakes on the FF craft.
There will be options in GARAGE to upgrade the craft, unlike Wipeout, where the only change available was a global one for air brakes....... if these upgrades will enable the FF craft to steer as quickly as Wipeout craft though is another matter, I somehow doubt it with the way they have the handling set at the moment.
But, that is what we are supposed to be testing with this build, so I'll report back again to let you know what's found out...... I will say this, the FF craft have always seemed to me to be much more critical of incorrect nose angle than any wipeout game that I remember, you can lose or gain a lot of speed depending how well you get this correct for any particular section of track.

[WikEv_512]

Thanks for your feedback, for those that are not part of the TPP (like me) it's great to know in what direction the game is going...
And from what you wrote, I have to say that I'm pretty worried. I still don't get why a team of professional developers can't manage to have WipEout-like handling when a single, amateur, developer managed to have it in Ballistic NG. I know they want a game different from WipEout, with its own identity, but they are not going in the right direction. Didn't they say they wanted a 2097 style handling ? THEY DID IT IN 1996, WHY THE HELL ISN'T IT POSSIBLE IN 2016 ?! I just don't understand. But well, I'm talking about the handling we have in the current early access build, but for the TPP it may have improved I guess...

And when you talk about the Midtown 01 track... I've already said it to the devs with Niagara, but... why the hell would there be a professional AG-Race in a earthquake ravaged city ?! Did we see a F1 GP after the tsunami and Fukushima in Japan ?! I know they want a dark atmosphere like in 2097, but it's too much. It more feels like POD, for those who know, than WipEout, and 2097 was not perfect: the last track ravaged by an earthquake was... nonsense. It's the same thing in FF... And for god sakes, please add people, crowds etc watching the race... It's AG racing and it's seems no one gives a f***, and it feels so empty...

I have so much more things to add, but it's enough for today :? But thanks again to share your impressions dude ! (why the hell don't they work with whole community ? Another thing I don't get...)

I hope my English wasn't too bad ^^

[blackwiggle]

I actually wrote a large post at the R8 FF forum TPP feedback on this Nov 14 build, as we were asked to do.
I won't bore you with the descriptions I gave on the 12 new tracks, as it's rather pointless as some of them might never see the light of day.

At the beginning of my post, I wrote what you read below.
Handling generally: I've watched how handling has greatly improved over several builds now, and is getting closer to what is needed, but there seems to be one underlying difference to FF craft handling compared to any Wipeout game from 2097 onward's, and that is when turning without using any air braking at all, there is a tremendous speed loss with the FF craft, where there isn't on the Wipeout craft.
If this is due to wipeout craft having stat's in both Thrust & Speed, where the FF craft [going by what is available to be upgraded in garage] only speed seems to be factored in, has anything to do with this I don't know, but it's something that has been puzzling me for several builds now, and it would be nice to have it explained by somebody at R8, which parameters they are looking at changing generally - Build to Build, and which will be left for the player to tweak with eventual upgrades in Garage.

Anyway, why I bought this up now is, there are two tracks that are especially effected by this big speed loss when turning...the craft start to mishandle because of it....both these tracks have a lot of banking on them.

I'll mention this now, of the 12 new test tracks, quite a few tracks have sections with either one large jump, or several jumps [ there are Two, very Old School Wipeout/2097 type tracks :D ]

I then got two different replies, one was in a different thread, on my concerns with a sudden loss of speed at the start of Atlas Torres track , it used to be a normal speed, but in this build it's like a roller coaster slowly crawling up the big hill before it starts descending....reply below
[B][I]This is the new physics having a down force that will always pull you down so jumps are a little more realistic, we're looking into tweaking this and the tunnel so it isn't as boring to play.
That explanation also explained part of the problem I was having with Fury C1 & Experimental W4 tracks.

Back at my main post I had a reply from Purdisc...see below.
Hi Blackwiggle

Thanks for your comments on the RR’s. Some really good points here and thank you for bringing them up. Only addressing speed and thrust for now I think the main thing to say is that this will be dealt with in upcoming TPP builds in what we’re calling our "card system". This garage based mechanic will allow some really fine adjustments on many aspects craft that you’re not seeing at the moment.

Formula Fusion uses a full physics sim which takes into account the effect that turning has on your crafts' forward speed, just as it would have in "real life”. You will be able to counter this in the Garage by choosing to change the amount of acceleration (“thrust”) and also the rate of acceleration. This would come at a cost to other areas of your craft like defensive capacity just like you’d find in different WipeOut ships and their preset predisposition to speed over safety or vice a versa.

For the record, the build you’re playing now and going forward is not speed capped

I’ll leave Rob to explain all the Cards in the Garage nearer to the time when we give you that build. Not putting a date on it but we should be letting you have a rudimentary card system and a few other bits and pieces before the end of next week.

Another piece of the puzzle is now found and put in place, this explains the why and what has been happening with the craft handling to date, and where it is heading, or I should say, where it is planned to head.

I wouldn't be worrying about the handling really, as it's got so much better, incrementally, with each build.

As for Midtown 01 track, well a different version existed of this track in the very first build, and it had disappeared completely by the second, the first version didn't work for a number of reasons [it had a corkscrew pipe/tunnel that the craft could spin upside down in], and I guess R8 knew that.... anyway it suddenly made a reappearance in this Nov 14 build, and I must say, with the way the current VIXEN speed class craft are handling [we were instructed to only use this speed class to test this build] it's probably the most fluid track to race on except for Niagara.

I've just uploaded a new video of the NOV 14 TPP build of Mannahatta.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG9r2FQxF_w

I wanted you to be able to see what it's like against the A.I craft, and what they look like when racing them, also what happens when you are destroyed, both things that are not show in my video of the same track two builds back [4 months ago]...watch that and see the huge difference between the two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvUN76JJZNw

More videos to come over the next few days [got to check if I can post videos of the RED RUN Test tracks - the New 12 tracks that are bare bones that we are testing]

[WikEv_512]

Thank you very much for the video ! From what you wrote I can say that I was wrong about the handling, it indeed seems to have improved a lot. Manahatta looks better indeed in this new build.

Thank you again for your replies and your videos, it is really nice of you to let us know what the game looks like for the TPP. It makes me want to join the TPP but I guess it's too late...

[blackwiggle]

I've told them at the forum [Again] that they really need to let you guys know what progress has been made.... I know they are ultra busy, but it's in their own interests to do so.

I also told them of my intention of posting some videos of the 12 tracks we are being asked to test, and that I have already uploaded one....so here it is.

Since we were talking about it, I thought Midtown 01 might as well be the first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWH1wDZhPyg

[WikEv_512]

The track in itself looks really good to fly, I like it. For the environment I still think it's strange to set it in a earthquake ravaged city but let's see what they'll do.

But I think the handling lacks some floatiness, it feels the ships are stuck to the track, and I think more floatiness would make the flight, especially with the jumps, more fluid and more enjoyable.

To conclude, I usually chose the cockpit view like you, but don't you find the field of view a bit too narrow ? I have this impression that there is some sort of zoom, and that we loose the sensation of speed. What is your impression with cockpit view ?

[blackwiggle]

Well you [and everybody else that views that Midtown 01 video] really need to understand that these tracks, are extremely first draft prototypes.
Best example I could give would be like a artist doing a quick pencil sketch of most of the elements they want to include in a picture, but still at the stage where they are looking at placement of those elements within that picture.... some might make it into the next draft, other won't, things get changed around, omitted, and new things replace them......tracks at this stage have a good chance of never being built at all, as has already happened with a few designs in the previous build, that were pretty much universally disliked by those that tested them......there are still one or two of those within the current 12 new RED tracks.
Others get rejected because the craft handling, having being tweaked to some form of satisfaction with those tracks that are near completion, doesn't work on the new proposed track....pretty much a instant FAIL!

As I mentioned in in post #5 of this post, R8 said [This is the new physics having a down force that will always pull you down so jumps are a little more realistic, we're looking into tweaking this and the tunnel so it isn't as boring to play.] this is the first build where there have been any JUMPS on ANY tracks to test, the physics for this have only been added very recently, so are NO WAY EVEN CLOSE to being optimized with what other handle changes are gradually being made.

The whole thing is a balancing act, if they make the craft too floaty they won't work on some of the tracks that have HUGE jumps, and would probably float off into the scenery, which is not what you want.

As for the cockpit view, yes I agree in does seem a little narrow now you mention it [probably the reason the A.I craft seem so HUGE when immediately in front of you - as can be seen in this builds Mannahatta video I posted above], but I had to wait so long for this view to be included I'm just happy it's available.....that's another thing that is constantly being tweaked, to quote two things mention in this builds release notes post #1
- Removed one of the external camera (the Tail Cam)
- Remaining external camera (Chase Cam) has been tweaked

In retrospect, I think I will record the current RED test tracks for prosperity, but only put up one other, as I think it would be counter productive for all not in the TPP to view.
Reason I think that is, I think it will cause questions to be asked to R8 by those NOT IN the TPP, that would have already have been answered to those who are in it.
This would be a total waste of time for the people at R8 to have to answer, and if they didn't answer these questions, the people that didn't get a answer would unjustifiably feel that they have been slighted, where in actuality, it's really none of their business.

From the roll out plan that I know about, there is still planned to be one more intake into the TPP, so I would recommend all that are interested to partake, to keep a close eye on any announcements made to that effect.

Here is a link to another of the 14 Nov test tracks...... Neo Camden C1 .... reminds me of Old School Wipeout games.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUgp5P4O-jE

[Axel]

I rarely post in here but have bought the game. It's good to know that they are updating the game regularly but they really need to feed this information to their customers either on here, FF forums or the steam forums. Their communication is poor at the moment.

Like WikEv_512 said above, I hope they produce a game closer to the 2097 and WO3SE which would be a dream for me. But I'm grateful that they have testers like you to help point them in the right direction

[blackwiggle]

I put one other new video up of a Red Route test track, this is of Experimental W1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RktYflYCP60

Currently the jumps intersect at some places on this test track, so there is a possibility of mid-air collisions, or well timed weapon fire hitting somebody who is either miles in front, or miles behind if they happen to cross your path at that point.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

I have some ideas that I'm hoping you could forward to the development team, all focused around the idea that the community can be a valuable asset. This would not only be great for keeping the game alive once it is completely released, but it could also take some load off the developers in the long run.

User Generated Content:
- Track editor
- Skin/ship editor
- Custom music/sound packs (using some combination of FFmpeg and LibOpenMPT)
- Custom HUD options and/or weapons(?), pending community review
- HoloCam; a combination between Photo Mode (like in WipEout HD) and Theatre Mode (like in the Halo games)
- Custom race types; Using mutators (such as in Unreal Tournament) and other configurable options (such as in WipEout's racebox and in Halo Multiplayer)
- Custom campaign grids (assuming the game uses or is planned to use a Campaign Grid system)

Debugging Tools:
- Stress Test: A series of performance benchmarks (with optional performance telemetry), both interactive and choreographed
- User Feedback Tools: A means of easily reporting bugs and other feedback/reviews from within the game itself!

Miscellaneous:
- *Optional Advertisements: Disabled by default, with a prompt if the user would like to enable them. They can be set up so that they display on trackside billboards or something innocuous like that. Telemetry wouldn't be a thing of course, since if you're playing a futuristic racing game, then it is already pretty obvious what you're interested in. I suggest this one because some people might not have money to make regular contributions to the studio or the game's development following their purchase (I'm assuming the game will follow a Pay-What-You-Want model)
- Some form of very basic integrated social network, since not everyone will be using Steam to play this game in all likelihood.

*(Don't maul me)