big July update is LIVE!! go play

[purdisc]

THE FUTURE IS NOW!
The new and improved BIG JULY UPDATE is now live on Steam, for your AG racing pleasure! As you may have seen over the weekend we had a couple of internal issues to resolve, unfortunately that meant delaying the launch slightly.
However, I’m sure you will appreciate the results of our hard work and hopefully it serves to clearly set out our intentions to deliver something really special (wipes sweat from brow). Hopefully the wait will have been worth it.
If you have approached us for keys please check your email tomorrow – we value constructive feedback so feel free to flood the forums with your critical appraisal and get the word out for others to do likewise.
If you intend to just flame the forums with vitriol, we tend not to be as responsive, but we do value your input and do take note (be warned).
The update we have given you, we feel, now justifies the £14.99 price tag, which is half the final RRP of £29.99.
Whilst still in Alpha it is roughly half the game in terms of content and game treatment. We will now retreat to the trenches and push on to completion generating new content and refining gameplay as we go.

DISCLAIMER: Because this is a big update, we want to stress test the game over the next week, so if you encounter a crash (multiplayer is a bit delicate) can you please provide details of the crash to team@r8games.com . Please put the words "CRASH REPORT" in the Subject line.

THAT’S NOT ALL FOLKS!
No no no…
To keep you satisfied we will continue to deliver monthly patches on Steam to fine tune the game experience, along with a few exciting new features. However - new content will be limited to TPP members who will have exclusive access going forward.

HOW DOES THE TPP THING WORK – IS IT EVEN A ‘THING’?
Yes. Admittedly we have been very quiet, but it was always going to be a big part of how we develop the game; we just needed to put the brakes on and create the right conditions. But now we want to take a step back and focus our efforts on you special people. Our QA Manager, Robert D will lead you by the hand through this important phase.
We will:
- Deliver the remaining RedRoutes to you, starting with the new track Terminus – an exciting track design with lots of new features. The plan is to deliver this mid-August.
- Set weekly QA tasks to gather feedback. This will be managed by our QA Manager!
- Interact personally with community QA leaders to discuss development particulars (this will be under NDA of course as you will effectively be part of the team).

I MISSED THE BOAT, CAN I BECOME A TEST PILOT?
YES! There will be two more recruitment phases to co-inside with major updates. Wait for announcements to go out through twitter and social media and then join up!
- The first phase will start next Monday and will last for 7 days. This is to bolster numbers so we can test multiplayer.
- The second phase will start 2 months before launch. This is to focus test game balancing.

LETS GET BACK TO THE UPDATE! WHAT’S THE DEALIO?
As mentioned previously – this update is important for a number of reasons. For a start it shows that we have not been idle twiddling our thumbs – it represents a lot of late nights, a lot of testing and a lot of trawling through forums for feedback (don’t worry, we have thick skins). We are proud of how it is coming together now and for the first time, to us, the jigsaw pieces are slotting together.
You will see (wip):
- Craft: F4000, F3000, F2000 – complete with team skins;
- Tracks: Niagara GP, Mannahatta, Trans Atol, Atlas Torres;
- Menu: tDR elements being interwoven without our previous placeholder work;
- Garage: The first pass version of the garage complete with basic upgrade nodes;
- Game Loop: Play tracks, win credits and try all the different the classes;
- Multiplayer: Host races and play with up to 10 friends;
- Weapons: Mines; Gauss Cannon; Rockets; Shockwave (basic implementation);
- AI Balancing: First pass AI behaviour trained and developed to fit each track;
- Game Lore: All team lore in place;
- Practice mode: Practice a race;
- Tutorial: Learn the basics;
- General: Loading screens, craft profiles, team profiles, speed boost and screen FX, optimisation;
- Craft behaviour: refinements to handling and collision friction;
Plus many many more..
WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!! GO PLAY THE GAME!

[Cipher]

A couple of us tried FF at WipeoutCon and we all kind of had the same feelings about it, the handling felt rather sluggish and weird. To me personally it felt as if just steering with the stick/d-pad was air brake behaviour, and the air brakes themselves, just extra of the same, steering also slowed you down incredibly, something that seems odd as that should be air brake behaviour and not really craft steering.
In my opinion, steering should just be a constant rotation of the directionvector, where the rotation speed is exponentially lerped to its constant max value (This lerp should happen fast, as otherwise it appears as input lag where the ship starts turning much later than you actually started steering (how it appears to be now)), but stops incrementing once the maximum rotation speed for this ship's handling is reached, i'm okay if it slows you down just a touch, but not the way it is right now, just my input ;-) (Haven't tried the new patch yet, but just fyi)

ps you are a good/enthusiastic community manager, you may not see many replies here, but you can rest assured your posts are being read ;)

[purdisc]

hi Cipher

thanks for writing - I thought it was just me and BlackWiggle ;-)

As per your last line, our bottom line is: please try out the new build on Steam EA and let me know what you think after that. Still some tweaking to be done but we feel it's moved on several light years.

BTW you'll be seeing much much more activity on the http://formulafusion.co.uk/index.php?/forums/ as we now have someone full time in the studio who will be on top of the TPP forum. We hang our heads in shame as we know we've been very neglectful of our most important community. Community management can take up a huge amount of time and we were basically focusing on the game.

As per Andrew's announcement above, after opening the TPP again for a limited period, the game will effectively continue as a closed beta with the TPP community, of which you are a prominent member.


A couple of us tried FF at WipeoutCon and we all kind of had the same feelings about it, the handling felt rather sluggish and weird. To me personally it felt as if just steering with the stick/d-pad was air brake behaviour, and the air brakes themselves, just extra of the same, steering also slowed you down incredibly, something that seems odd as that should be air brake behaviour and not really craft steering.
In my opinion, steering should just be a constant rotation of the directionvector, where the rotation speed is exponentially lerped to its constant max value (This lerp should happen fast, as otherwise it appears as input lag where the ship starts turning much later than you actually started steering (how it appears to be now)), but stops incrementing once the maximum rotation speed for this ship's handling is reached, i'm okay if it slows you down just a touch, but not the way it is right now, just my input ;-) (Haven't tried the new patch yet, but just fyi)

ps you are a good/enthusiastic community manager, you may not see many replies here, but you can rest assured your posts are being read ;)

[blackwiggle]

Just read the heads up and downloaded it, unfortunately it's a bit late for me to actually try it out, so I'll give it a shot after work tomorrow.

I see that you haven't actually posted any specifics on how new people will able to join up on the TPP, I checked R8's site, R8's Facebook.

I got thinking that the vast majority of former Wipeout players that would be interested in doing so would be based in UK/ Euro, which traditionally is where Wipeout has had it core following [only due to Sony's lack of advertising of Wipeout elsewhere ]

So I took the liberty of posting at the Official UK/Euro Playstation forums about this up coming additional TPP, in the hope that you get the required numbers, giving links to R8's website and R8's Facebook page, as you mention you intend to use social media to get the word out.
Suggest a separate new thread at this forum, as some who missed out on the original TPP I'm sure would love a second crack at it.

Since FF is going to be ported to the PS4, I figured that the temptation for those interested to be ahead of the game by participating in the TPP would be pretty strong .... guess we shall see what happens.[link to post below - Hope I got it all correct ]
http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/Driving-Racing/Test-Pilots-for-new-Wipeout-style-game-needed/m-p/24428371

[purdisc]

hi BW

Not an omission, we will be posting TPP entry instructions shortly. We'll make sure that everyone who wants in gets in. No pilot left behind ;-)
We want to leave the public Steam EA version in a really good state so we're not closing it off to all but TPPs yet. A number of bugs need to be fixed.

Thanks for posting to the PS site.

PM me for my thoughts on Sony and their franchise
;-)


Just read the heads up and downloaded it, unfortunately it's a bit late for me to actually try it out, so I'll give it a shot after work tomorrow.

I see that you haven't actually posted any specifics on how new people will able to join up on the TPP, I checked R8's site, R8's Facebook.

I got thinking that the vast majority of former Wipeout players that would be interested in doing so would be based in UK/ Euro, which traditionally is where Wipeout has had it core following [only due to Sony's lack of advertising of Wipeout elsewhere ]

So I took the liberty of posting at the Official UK/Euro Playstation forums about this up coming additional TPP, in the hope that you get the required numbers, giving links to R8's website and R8's Facebook page, as you mention you intend to use social media to get the word out.
Suggest a separate new thread at this forum, as some who missed out on the original TPP I'm sure would love a second crack at it.

Since FF is going to be ported to the PS4, I figured that the temptation for those interested to be ahead of the game by participating in the TPP would be pretty strong .... guess we shall see what happens.[link to post below - Hope I got it all correct ]
http://community.eu.playstation.com/t5/Driving-Racing/Test-Pilots-for-new-Wipeout-style-game-needed/m-p/24428371

[ericd7]

I just had a quick go at this build and your game starts to look very promising imo. Speed sensations are awesome and general feeling of the ship is already good, especially in internal view.
This update fixed the lack of responsivness in controls of the last build and the game is more enjoyable to play.
Gameplay is not perfect yet but it's nice to see improvments, keep going :)

[blackwiggle]

After my first play of this latest build and my reaction is WOW !!! :rock

For those Wipeout tragic's who are reading this and can't currently play this test build, and are wondering, well just how close to Wipeout has this game gotten ?
I can say that for all intended purposes I think R8 might just have pulled this off, and FF WILL be the Wipeout replacement we have all been waiting for .....still needs quite a bit of work, but the progress seen with this build over the last is staggering .
If you have a PC, you really should get on the new TPP that will start 1st August and see for yourselves just how close to Wipeout FF is, even at this rough stage development wise.

What a truly MASSIVE difference between what we have been testing previously and this build, and in every conceivable department.

The handling is a order of magnitude better than before, and a LOT faster.....wait till you race in Python class guys , think faster than Super Phantom speed :eek:eek:eek
The fleshed out tracks look great, [I even ENJOYED racing around Manahatta -seems you tamed the Fog effects a bit, Night time around here will be the test ;) ]

I love the new TRANS ATOL track, well at the current racing speed at least.

OK, some questions and some findings so far.

Q: I see at the bottom right it has 'Vote to Start'...How will this work?
Is it intended as a vote for which track is chosen when online in a room ? or meant as a vote to prod the host into stop waiting to fill a room and start the race? ... personally I'm hoping it's the latter, and track selection is left to the rooms host.

Q: What in this build is actually supposed to be operating? and what is still just a working menu interface ?

Tutorial, for what very basic form it is ATM works.

Practice I imagine this is where players can test craft and weapon upgrades, strangely there is no option to select speed class to practice in, which I think is a bit remiss, also on Trans Atol at least, if respawned, you are not respawned with your chosen racing view, it defaults to above view and you have to change it ...not a big problem, a player view lock in options would be nice.

Custom Event works, but seems very similar to Practice mode, except in this mode speed class is able to be chosen, so I'm not really sure what the differentiation between the two is supposed to be ?

Quick Race works for those tracks that are unlocked

Online EDIT: Tried once 1.5h after my original post, only two pilots, I was guest, used settings as posted below ....was supposed to be 3 Laps, my handling throughout the whole race was diabolical, basically very little control, control I did have was extremely laggy, was using a Xbox controller, game was supposed to finish but continued after crossing checked start/finish , continued for a corner or two then game froze, was returned to opening page [press any button], had to use Alt/ctrl/del to go to task manager to close FF/steam....no error report.

Garage No craft changes are able to be made ATM [The choices ATM are, for those that are interested, come under 6 categories that are made available by rotating your craft with the Left Stick -Offensive, Defensive, Handling, Speed, Braking, Shield ] this is going to be really interesting how these options are used by people [ Loadable presets please :) ]

Team Select For those that are interested on how this works - There are 10 teams -each team represents a world region, within each of these regions are the country flags that make up this regional team.... only the regions have a different craft skin..... so you go through the regions first looking for your countries flag, select that region, then select which flag within that region you wish to fly under...... Currently there are 3 regions that have yet to have skins designed for them, those Regions are the West Euro, Central Euro and the Americas ....I suppose individual country flags will be a option to be shown when online for tournament organization, but otherwise not shown ?

I forgot if we on the TPP are allowed to post screen shots at various forums, or post YouTube videos [other than R8's own one], could that be clarified ?

Just one other thing, I see the performance hit to my GTX970 VC has now got the game running at 50 FPS with 1920 x 1080 / Epic / Fullscreen ... well less than half the frame rate that I was getting on Mannahatta with the same settings in the last build...can't wait till you optimize the code :p

[ericd7]

Hey BW :) you can actually improve the stats of the ships with the credits you earn.
You need to use your mouse (gamepad doesn't seem to work there). Click on a ship propertie you want to upgrade then there is a grey slider barely visible right in the middle of the stats screen.

It's not true customisation atm, i hope it's just a way to allow players to get ultimate ships without counterparts for now.
A system where you must choose your upgrades depending on the track, on the mode you're racing would be more interessing.
Be carefull to choose the right ship you want to upgrade, i spent all my welcome credits on the wrong one here :brickwall

[blackwiggle]

OK, thanks ericd7 I'll try the mouse.
I haven't been able to get the craft to change as yet, probably for the same reason, need to use the mouse.

You can build up credits for upgrades easy enough by just getting a high enough finish in Quick Race mode.
As I have not as yet seen what these various specific upgrades are in each particular section, I don't know which would be the best way to approach upgrading.
I guess that's what Practice mode is for..... I'm guessing you can't try each upgrade in Practice mode first on your craft before purchasing, that would be a better option.... maybe instead of purchasing the upgrades first, you could have a Tes-tbed mode within the Garage to do just this, not sure if R8 would implement it.
I've requested a saved craft update preset mode for favorite craft a few builds back, so you could load them for different tracks and conditions, Purdisc seemed to think it was a good idea and I think it will get implemented.

I'm just about to purchase and download Movavi video suite so I can record and edit some video's of what a huge upgrade this build is, so everybody can hopefully get really excited...AGAIN!
Might take a while till I get familiar with the software.

I'll do one of a run through of the basic menu options available, track selection [only 4 available of 8 ATM] all with Reverse and Night options, the craft updating, and team select process.
Then another video showing a lap around the new Trans Atol track, and another edited video showing the differences in the speed classes on the same track as reference.

[ericd7]

Do you have access to night and reverse tracks as a TPP member? It would be great to watch some videos of these :)
I really like the layout and environment of Trans Atol too, unfortunetly the framerate make this new track unplayable on my computer.

I bought the game only 2 weeks ago so i can't only compare the 2 last builds.
Regards to the handling changes, i feel R8 has done good about responsivness; we can now recover from mistakes more easily and have more liberties with lines; everything doesn't have to be perfect like before which is very important for online races.
But also i feel you've gone a bit too far in that the ship doesn't loose enough speed when steering and the wall collisions are way too much permissive. So it feels less 'floaty and realistic' than before imo with F4000 and F3000 ships.
F2000 physic feels different of the other 2 but seems to need upgrades first. It's also very hard to handle pitching with this ship.
Stick controls are still a bit too much sensitive in general, you get used to it after some time but an additional setting option would be great.

But the game is already fun and i'm looking forward to play online (didn't work yesterday) hopefully with some WZ pilots too :)

[blackwiggle]

No, all the reverse and Night versions of the tracks are currently locked.

Manahatta reverse was only available to race on for one or two builds [about 3 builds ago - I actually much prefer it to the forward, it seems to flow a lot better , same as Chenghou reverse on HD :D ]

Manahatta Night was available until two builds ago, that is one track I have had real problems with personally due to visual craft effects that at the time were unable to be turned off, plus the headlights, combined with the fog effect on track, and my preference to fly in cockpit view, result had been the windscreen of the craft has looked like it was smeared with Vaseline, and made it pretty much impossible to see where you are going for a large part of the track [first tunnel area particularly ]

I can only guess [ hope] from this last build that things have improved, as R8 seemed to have reduced the fog effect.

Of the 8 tracks, I've now tried 5 for sure, there was a TPP build that had several tracks in absolute bare bones build - think even less than the wire frame tracks on WO3 - we had to comment / vote on which of these tracks we thought were the best and why.
I don't know if any of those tracks designs made it so far as they became Terminus, Sampa-V or Midtown, which are the 3 tracks that appear in the menu that nobody has tested yet.

Currently all 8 tracks appear to be based in the USA going by the map they appear on when you click on them, which seems strange, as I thought FF would be more international than that, more like F1 events.
I guess this will eventually change, as they have Friar Fury [which is a Earthquake effected track ] located approx at the junction where Tennessee / Georgia / Alabama meet, which is not a earthquake effected region as far as I know.
I thought that track would have ended up being located somewhere like earthquake ravaged Christchurch - New Zealand or a similar earthquake effected province in China.

[g2wolf]

On my screen, fiar fury is off near nevada. Midtown is the one that shows up around Tennessee. If Fiar Fury was around Tennessee, it wouldn't be entirely out of place to have it around the junction of Mississippi / Tennessee / Arkansas due to the New Madrid Seismic Zone.

Can only hope those last 3 tracks are NOT the ones tested in TPP. If we never saw those TPP tracks again that'd be great.

[blackwiggle]

After some modification I think one of those bare bones tracks we tested might have become Trans Atol and another Niagara, of all tracks tested so far, Friar Fury is the one I like the least, I can see it ending up as one of those annoyingly frustrating tracks that most people avoid, like Modesto Heights from WO Fury.

I've come to the conclusion after doing lots of laps trying the various speed classes, that I think Niagara is to long, it could do with at least a quarter of it's length cut, or alter it so that there are bigger changes in elevation, to me it seems too flat for much of it's length, and basically I'm sad to say, monotonous, by that I mean it seems to take forever to do one lap in Vixen speed class, and I find there is little to look at visually around the side of the track while you are lapping it, it needs jazzing up a bit to make it more interesting at least.

[mikee74]

Niagara is not to long.
The Curve in this Track is to many easy.
Long and straight roads and to Easy Curves make the Track monotonous.
The Curves in Manhatten with up and downs that is fun,
Niagara musst have 2-3 such Curves from Manhatten with gradient.

[blackwiggle]

When we on the TPP were asked to test the special build with the various bare bones tracks, we were asked to comment on them, and vote on which we though might work and why.
I think one of those tracks became Niagara, I think I said at the time that I thought a track like this would be good for those new to AG racing as a training track, where the new pilot could get to grips with the needed skills of combining steering with air brake use.
After doing a lot of laps in fastest Python speed class, it really doesn't seem that much faster for the majority of a lap, mainly because of the way the steering in FF can effect speed.

For some reason, any time you tend to steer a hard left/right, or left/up - right/up the craft slow down considerably, that's without touching the air brakes, try it yourself to see what I mean.
This steering slow down has always been there, it used to be that if you steered in these directions previously, the craft would suddenly appear to side shift, consequently you ended up missing a lot of speed pads , I reported this, they tested it and found the same thing, and they fixed it, but now the steering slow down seems quite a bit more than previously.

From what I remember of the conversation, the explanation of FF handling was that they wanted FF pilots to use the air brakes to swing the rear of the craft around, and not use severe hard Left / Right.
So pretty much how Asayyeah developed his side shifting technique for the PSone Wipeout titles, before SL put it in Pure & Pulse as a dedicated move.

[mikee74]

Manhatten need 15min time for Loading?
All Other Tracks 20sec.

[blackwiggle]

No, that doesn't sound right.
But in saying that, I have found that Manahatta has become unstable on my PC as well, I'm on the TPP, I wouldn't know is things would be worse for those on the Early Access program, if that's what you are on.

I just loaded a video onto YouTbe of Manahatta.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvUN76JJZNw

I was having the same problem as you getting it loaded, but not 15 minutes.
It will start loading then just hang with a Black screen, then when it finally loads [several minutes] I get game glitches every time I pass over the Start/ Finish line [as can be seen in the video].
Just before I recorded that video, I had another race on the same track and one of the A.I. craft stayed sat on grid the entire race.

All other tracks are loading and playing normally.

EDIT: Actually I remember when this loading delay problem first started.
Usually I finish a race, then go to menu, then choose another race, I've never used pause/restart
Because I had started videoing these races, I sometimes stuffed up the start due to having to start recording, it was only when this happened I started to use the game pause/ restart option, rather than quitting entirely.
After a few times of doing that, the loading problems started, also the glitch when going over the start/finish line.....there has been no error messages, so there is nothing I can send R8 to help rectify the problem, I just hope knowing this they can work out what's happening.

[g2wolf]

None of the barebones tracks were Niagara, and pretty sure they weren't trans atol either.

[purdisc]

hi mikee74

Have you checked the size of your Ghost file from TT racing? We've fixed it for the next build but the long load times were apparently due to that. Delete the Ghost file and see what happens....please let me know what happens too ;-)


Manhatten need 15min time for Loading?
All Other Tracks 20sec.

- - - Updated - - -

hi BW

I can't comment on the TPP as I haven't been involved in it but FWIW we're working our way through the Reverse versions of all the existing 4 tracks right now. The night versions will follow.

The plan is to go more international with tracks. We had to start somewhere. I guess we could have started in Australia but....you can imagine ;-)


No, all the reverse and Night versions of the tracks are currently locked.

Manahatta reverse was only available to race on for one or two builds [about 3 builds ago - I actually much prefer it to the forward, it seems to flow a lot better , same as Chenghou reverse on HD :D ]

Manahatta Night was available until two builds ago, that is one track I have had real problems with personally due to visual craft effects that at the time were unable to be turned off, plus the headlights, combined with the fog effect on track, and my preference to fly in cockpit view, result had been the windscreen of the craft has looked like it was smeared with Vaseline, and made it pretty much impossible to see where you are going for a large part of the track [first tunnel area particularly ]

I can only guess [ hope] from this last build that things have improved, as R8 seemed to have reduced the fog effect.

Of the 8 tracks, I've now tried 5 for sure, there was a TPP build that had several tracks in absolute bare bones build - think even less than the wire frame tracks on WO3 - we had to comment / vote on which of these tracks we thought were the best and why.
I don't know if any of those tracks designs made it so far as they became Terminus, Sampa-V or Midtown, which are the 3 tracks that appear in the menu that nobody has tested yet.

Currently all 8 tracks appear to be based in the USA going by the map they appear on when you click on them, which seems strange, as I thought FF would be more international than that, more like F1 events.
I guess this will eventually change, as they have Friar Fury [which is a Earthquake effected track ] located approx at the junction where Tennessee / Georgia / Alabama meet, which is not a earthquake effected region as far as I know.
I thought that track would have ended up being located somewhere like earthquake ravaged Christchurch - New Zealand or a similar earthquake effected province in China.

- - - Updated - - -

hi BW

a little late on my part here but you've got it right - this is an entry level track.


When we on the TPP were asked to test the special build with the various bare bones tracks, we were asked to comment on them, and vote on which we though might work and why.
I think one of those tracks became Niagara, I think I said at the time that I thought a track like this would be good for those new to AG racing as a training track, where the new pilot could get to grips with the needed skills of combining steering with air brake use.
After doing a lot of laps in fastest Python speed class, it really doesn't seem that much faster for the majority of a lap, mainly because of the way the steering in FF can effect speed.

For some reason, any time you tend to steer a hard left/right, or left/up - right/up the craft slow down considerably, that's without touching the air brakes, try it yourself to see what I mean.
This steering slow down has always been there, it used to be that if you steered in these directions previously, the craft would suddenly appear to side shift, consequently you ended up missing a lot of speed pads , I reported this, they tested it and found the same thing, and they fixed it, but now the steering slow down seems quite a bit more than previously.

From what I remember of the conversation, the explanation of FF handling was that they wanted FF pilots to use the air brakes to swing the rear of the craft around, and not use severe hard Left / Right.
So pretty much how Asayyeah developed his side shifting technique for the PSone Wipeout titles, before SL put it in Pure & Pulse as a dedicated move.

[NeroIcaras]

Any pics of F2000 crafts?

[blackwiggle]

None of the barebones tracks were Niagara, and pretty sure they weren't trans atol either.

Certainly the worse one became the TUTORIAL track, just in case you want to visit it again

[g2wolf]

Certainly the worse one became the TUTORIAL track, just in case you want to visit it again

Even the tutorial track is a new one and not one of the ones we tested. It's still better than the worst one we tested.

[blackwiggle]

3 unknown tracks still to make show, and one, not fully rendered that I already am not a fan of.
I can only take note of the names of the yet unseen tracks in speculation on what they could be like, as they allude to previous Wipeout tracks from Wo3 onwards

[purdisc]

Any pics of F2000 crafts?


concept for FF2000
https://www.facebook.com/R8Games/photos/a.811849095504287.1073741838.728021997220331/1126288857393641/?type=3&theater
10402

concept for the FF1000
https://www.facebook.com/R8Games/photos/a.811849095504287.1073741838.728021997220331/1173080966047763/?type=3&theater

10401

[mikee74]

But i musst say;
The Old back Cam was better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOQhPXeoqBw
The Contender see you from all side,
the Filling from old Wipeout HD was back,
but now this isnt.
Only the Vixen have a little bit Cam move, but too little.
The Camera is to many fixid and directly behind from Contender.
That's a pity for the Python, best design but i cant this see, because ever fixing the Cam
directly behind from Contender.

Or was the Cam in the Old version more fixed on the Track, and the Contender was free
and therefore i see from all side?
And now is the Cam more fixed on the Contender?

[purdisc]

hi mikee74

don't worry, plenty of time to change the camera


But i musst say;
The Old back Cam was better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOQhPXeoqBw
The Contender see you from all side,
the Filling from old Wipeout HD was back,
but now this isnt.
Only the Vixen have a little bit Cam move, but too little.
The Camera is to many fixid and directly behind from Contender.
That's a pity for the Python, best design but i cant this see, because ever fixing the Cam
directly behind from Contender.

Or was the Cam in the Old version more fixed on the Track, and the Contender was free
and therefore i see from all side?
And now is the Cam more fixed on the Contender?