Steam Early Access update 20160507

[purdisc]

THE UPDATE IS OUT!
http://store.steampowered.com/app/389670

-new practice mode
-new track - Mannahatta
-floatier handling seen on Atlas
-3 dec points on clock
-boot cam - temporary removal of Cockpit Cam
-speed fx on/off - camera shake and chrom’ ab'
-ghost on/off/opacity
-d-pad control

I'll write longer later with more detail on all of these but for now please check this new build out. We plan to release another one in a few weeks for the next Time Trial competition.

JohnP

[AdHoc]

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xuficavs3M

Looks a bit floatier, but not entirely there yet.
What I'm worried about is how heavy the physics and the ships look. Remember how light and nervous WipEout ships feel? That's what I'm looking for.
The FF ships feel like stoney cows.

I wonder if there's a possibility that Sony sees this and thinks "okay, this looks amazing, let's buy FF/R8 and make it a new licensed WipEout game"? Maybe I'm too much of a dreamer :p

[blackwiggle]

I just downloaded this update and I am glad to report I can at last actually play this one, and for the most part enjoy the experience.

The removal of Cockpit cam for the Mad Max cam as you like to call it, is exactly what I and others have been crying out for, you now can see what's coming up a lot easier now, and it makes what were previously blind corners and turns far easier to learn and traverse. +10 :+:D

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any way to turn off the speed FX, as I could find nothing in options no matter which race type or practice mode was chosen, at least we now know it will be a option eventually.

Manahatta day seems to have lost the vast majority of it's speeds pads, compared to previous builds, it made it both hard to get around, and very slow, no idea what's going on there, maybe it's related to the last minute broken build issue you just had?

I also tried racing Atlas, which when last I tried, it was in bare bones form, and was one of the tracks I had the most concerns about RE: the transparent tracks.
Thank God you guys got this right, and didn't opt for the high reflective sort of transparent tracks as used on WO's FURY & 2048, which makes them a confusing visual mess that just ends up disorientating you, and basically tiring you out racing on them.
This track IMHO is the most like a wipeout track so far, it looks great, and has just the right amount of difficulty..... although that short tube thing you enter at the beginning of every lap is a bit trippy lighting wise.:dizzy

I still have a few concerns about the craft handling, different issues occur depending on the track you are on, and I'm not sure if they are purposely designed into the game as such, or slight glitches.
For example when racing on Niagara, I'd get to the same point in a lap and each time the craft would mysteriously slightly side shift left about 1/3 the width of the track of it's own accord, it was almost like having pilot assist turned on in HD..... the yellow side wall proximity markers were starting to show, so I'm not sure how they are programmed and if they are supposed to either just warn a racer, or nudge them from the side?

Again, since I don't know if this is programmed to happen..... when getting up to speeds where the craft shake kicks in, use of the air brakes for fine adjustment is hit & miss, and for some reason even more so on banked turns, it either seems to have little to no effect on the craft, or quite a bit more than intended, either way, aiming for speed pads seems compromised when this effect is active.

Handling generally doesn't seem quite there yet, it seems very dependent on the speed you are doing more than anything else, going around Manahatta looking for speed pads at a snails pace the handling just wasn't there.
I might find it more manageable if like WOHD, I could adjust the air brake sensitivity to make the craft more agile.

I've also found this also effects the flow of game if you get hit by the AI [ Or rammed by them, boy do those AI like ramming you], as getting back up to speed and into a rhythm takes far too long.... I think this might have something to do with the spacing of the speed pads...... you have sections on a track that don't have any speed pads for what seems like a age, and others where they are in abundance ..... and since some of the tracks like Niagara are so long, when online I'm guessing you are going to have people hit you with a weapon, then just scoot away and not be seem for the rest of the race because it has taken you so long to recover.

I expect this Ebb & Flow of the game play will show up big time when multiplayer testing starts, and where adjustments might need to be made.

Anyway, at least FF is starting to look and feel like a wipeout game, especially Atlas.

[purdisc]

hi blackwiggle

Can't reply in full right now due to time constraints but the Speed FX (cam shake/chromatic aberration) toggle is located in Graphics/Custom at the bottom of the menu.


I just downloaded this update and I am glad to report I can at last actually play this one, and for the most part enjoy the experience.

...Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any way to turn off the speed FX, as I could find nothing in options no matter which race type or practice mode was chosen, at least we now know it will be a option eventually....
.

[blackwiggle]

Ok, found them, thanks for that..... I'll have a play with them.
For some reason my first attempt to disengage the effects [un tick the boxes] has changed the resolution of the screen instead, and I'm unable to get back into the menu because it is now off the screen LOL....I'll sort it

[purdisc]

hi AdHoc

thanks for that - we're still tweaking the physics and when the full garage mechanic is implemented you'll be able to influence the weight and handling of the craft.

on your other point, not impossible but highly unlikely
;-)



Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xuficavs3M
Looks a bit floatier, but not entirely there yet.
What I'm worried about is how heavy the physics and the ships look. Remember how light and nervous WipEout ships feel? That's what I'm looking for.
The FF ships feel like stoney cows.

I wonder if there's a possibility that Sony sees this and thinks "okay, this looks amazing, let's buy FF/R8 and make it a new licensed WipEout game"? Maybe I'm too much of a dreamer :p

[blackwiggle]

hi AdHoc

thanks for that - we're still tweaking the physics and when the full garage mechanic is implemented you'll be able to influence the weight and handling of the craft.

on your other point, not impossible but highly unlikely
;-)

Cool, this is the sort of information we have been sadly missing, and have been hoping for.

One general question about the game: Are there going to be different craft, like in wipeout?
Or
Say having a basic choice of say 2 or 3 base craft, and the player can then set them up to their liking, for either battle or TT and save them as presets that can be tied to their profile, so they load automatically depending what mode they are racing?

AdHoc, are you using a controller or Keyboard ?

After viewing you video, and on further testing around Niagara, I'm starting to think at least part of my handling problems might be due to input control lag from my Xbox controller, or less than ideal drivers for it.

Currently I'm using the Xbox controllers stick to steer, but at certain points [either getting close to hard L or R ] the sensitivity suddenly isn't there, it's almost like it's suddenly changed into a digital stick, where the fine gradients of control of a analog stick aren't there, this make the craft tend to jump from one position to another, rather than glide smoothly.....that's why the craft almost seems to side shift.

While in the custom graphic menu I see also see the option turn turn On/Off VR sync ... interesting, you guys at R8 have been keeping things close to your chest.

I de- clicked nose flash etc, but it still kicks in regardless, speed pad blur turned off thankfully, which I find far more annoying.....pity we don't have a fully rendered version of Manhatta night with this build, as that was the track that really was ruined for me by having the craft effects on, and the cockpit with console taking up so much screen space.... it would be nice to see if it is a least bearable to race on now.

The AI craft are still effected though, even if turned off , so if any are in close proximity to you it's almost like the effects are still applied to your craft anyway.

Anyway, I'm off to give Xtriko, NZ Lion and a few of the others a heads up that, YES, finally they can test this puppy out.....It will be interesting what they think, all have been waiting for Mad Max Mode.

[purdisc]

hi BW

Apologies I never got back with my State of the Nation summary - a number of things to summarise and it's been as busy as usual. I'll address your points as quickly as I can and come back to some later.



Cool, this is the sort of information we have been sadly missing, and have been hoping for.
One general question about the game: Are there going to be different craft, like in wipeout?
Or
Say having a basic choice of say 2 or 3 base craft, and the player can then set them up to their liking, for either battle or TT and save them as presets that can be tied to their profile, so they load automatically depending what mode they are racing?


Yes we are planning for atleast 8 craft in the full game as the player rises through the ranks (5 in total) from Novice to Elite. Good point about presets. We will add it to the list.

You will be able to set them up to your liking with interchangeable parts which will affect different aspects of the game and tracks.





AdHoc, are you using a controller or Keyboard ?

After viewing you video, and on further testing around Niagara, I'm starting to think at least part of my handling problems might be due to input control lag from my Xbox controller, or less than ideal drivers for it.

Currently I'm using the Xbox controllers stick to steer, but at certain points [either getting close to hard L or R ] the sensitivity suddenly isn't there, it's almost like it's suddenly changed into a digital stick, where the fine gradients of control of a analog stick aren't there, this make the craft tend to jump from one position to another, rather than glide smoothly.....that's why the craft almost seems to side shift.


EDIT - I asked the question and
in the studio we were finding a similar issue but only on the diagonal extremes which didn't register properly. We have tweaked this and it should make it into the next build. Please let us know if it solves your L-R problem.




While in the custom graphic menu I see also see the option turn turn On/Off VR sync ... interesting, you guys at R8 have been keeping things close to your chest.

I de- clicked nose flash etc, but it still kicks in regardless, speed pad blur turned off thankfully, which I find far more annoying.....pity we don't have a fully rendered version of Manhatta night with this build, as that was the track that really was ruined for me by having the craft effects on, and the cockpit with console taking up so much screen space.... it would be nice to see if it is a least bearable to race on now.


Speed Effects toggle on/off - it was decided that the "nose flash" would stay on - however, I would add that this effect will change - still open to argument that all Speed effects should mean ALL Speed Effects. We understood that the annoying effects for many people were the cam shake and chrom' ab’.



The AI craft are still effected though, even if turned off , so if any are in close proximity to you it's almost like the effects are still applied to your craft anyway.


good point - on the list



Anyway, I'm off to give Xtriko, NZ Lion and a few of the others a heads up that, YES, finally they can test this puppy out.....It will be interesting what they think, all have been waiting for Mad Max Mode.

thanks - any feedback yet?

[Lion]

I don't know if it's due to the screen being stretched horizontally as the game no longer supports my native resolution, but either I am incapable of judging corners correctly or the game does some weird increase in turn intensity with duration of press when playing with a keyboard, and it's much worse in bumpercam. Collecting the inside of every bend. (confirmed it's at least partly the stretch - I can actually fly OK in windowed mode)
Playing in chase-cam, I can actually have some fun with whatever build I am currently running - how do I check, btw?
The F3000 class is WAY more fun to fly than the F4000 class - lighter, a little more responsive, looks better, and has cooler (albeit subtle) animations - it would be nice if something of the front arms of the ship was visible in bumpercam, or maybe a third camera view with these visible? Even if just as a ghost or something? So those animations could be enjoyed in both views

Air brakes sap way more speed than I expect, have to get used to tapping them lightly for effect. Honestly they feel more like I'm tapping a brake pedal than doing something designed just for steering purposes - a feeling enhanced on the F4000 craft by the red lights coming on.

Currently even playing a timetrial it feels like I have to compensate for some kind of lag. Once again this may be down to the controller (or lack thereof) and it actually makes it more satisfying when I successfully navigate a sequence of bends (think 2097 Qirex) but the ship reactions just don't feel as immediate as I expect out of this kind of game

edit: I found my flatmate's Wireless Gaming Receiver and some batteries for my 360 controlpad - it's a much better game this way. The lag feeling is gone and it now just feels like ship weight. Also as it feels more predictable playing with a controller, bumpercam is usable (it really isn't usable with a keyboard) and it feels like a game I will spend some time in :)
If only I could play tolerably full-screen

[purdisc]

I don't know if it's due to the screen being stretched horizontally as the game no longer supports my native resolution, but either I am incapable of judging corners correctly or the game does some weird increase in turn intensity with duration of press when playing with a keyboard, and it's much worse in bumpercam. Collecting the inside of every bend. (confirmed it's at least partly the stretch - I can actually fly OK in windowed mode)
Playing in chase-cam, I can actually have some fun with whatever build I am currently running - how do I check, btw?

you have this build no. now and I’ll get back to you ;-)

What is your native rez? I’m guessing that even with your use of a controller you’re still having issues with the stretch/squeeze. Is this the case?

I’ll ask the question and see if it’s possible that length of press on a keyboard increases the intensity of the turn but I doubt it. I see below that you’ve found a controller which is what we expect most people to play with. I personally found that a controller completely changes my feel for playing.





The F3000 class is WAY more fun to fly than the F4000 class - lighter, a little more responsive, looks better, and has cooler (albeit subtle) animations - it would be nice if something of the front arms of the ship was visible in bumpercam, or maybe a third camera view with these visible? Even if just as a ghost or something? So those animations could be enjoyed in both views


Viewing the front “arms" of the FF3000 or any craft would be difficult from “Nose”/"Mad Max” cam as it’s literally out there on the front of those arms. What you’re asking for is Cockpit cam but with selective or rather opacity adjustment on. We withdrew Cockpit cam and will re-issue it at a later date but will consider your suggestion.




Air brakes sap way more speed than I expect, have to get used to tapping them lightly for effect. Honestly they feel more like I'm tapping a brake pedal than doing something designed just for steering purposes - a feeling enhanced on the F4000 craft by the red lights coming on.


I guess that opens a topic: are airbrakes designed for braking or steering or both? We plan to have more visual clues on each craft when airbrakes are used. Personally I find myself accepting that they add an extreme turning capacity but with a penalty in the actual loss of speed that comes with their use.

As a note we haven’t released any tracks as yet which genuinely require the use of airbrakes. Some Steam users have discovered that our airbrakes can be used to achieve a similar effect to the double tap side shift which is what we’d always intended. Easy to play, hard to master…but oh so satisfying!

Much thanks to MentalEdge for the video:

check this out
http://steamcommunity.com/app/389670/discussions/0/371918937264908908/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEl63XbIteo

Please let us know what you’re native rez is and we’ll see what we can do.




edit: I found my flatmate's Wireless Gaming Receiver and some batteries for my 360 controlpad - it's a much better game this way. The lag feeling is gone and it now just feels like ship weight. Also as it feels more predictable playing with a controller, bumpercam is usable (it really isn't usable with a keyboard) and it feels like a game I will spend some time in :)
If only I could play tolerably full-screen

[Lion]

I guess that opens a topic: are airbrakes designed for braking or steering or both? We plan to have more visual clues on each craft when airbrakes are used. Personally I find myself accepting that they add an extreme turning capacity but with a penalty in the actual loss of speed that comes with their use.
The way they work in my head in the wipEout series is an immediate change in the direction the craft is pointing, with a more gradual reduction in speed as it's effectively moving sideways (if the brake is held). Or an immediate reduction in speed if both are pulled at once.
I currently feel like the FF brakes shed too much speed immediately, and the turning action is not anywhere near as pronounced as in the wipEout series, but the sideshift effect makes this whole experience feel very different to anything I'm used to.
I'd say my comment a couple of posts back was more of a reaction than a cry for change - I haven't spent enough time with FF yet to form a proper opinion on this matter.


Please let us know what you’re native rez is and we’ll see what we can do.
3440*1440, ultrawide. Sold as 21:9, but I don't think that's actually the ratio of any ultrawide, it's 43:18 (21.5:9) to be more accurate

Weirdly enough, I can't play FF in a non-native fullscreen with black bars down the sides like I can some other games. It stretches the game out to full width regardless. My monitor is set to maintain the aspect ratio it's sent, so this is something happening before it leaves my video card.
It may not be the game, it may be something in the current nvidia drivers? no idea.

[blackwiggle]

I'm new to PC gaming, so I'm not sure if I've done something wrong. [I doubt it, as I have changed nothing]
Ever since I've gone into Custom video settings to turn off the effects, trying to revert back, or change any video settings, no longer work......I'm unable to change between Fullscreen/ windowed/ borderless etc, or resolution ....I'm also unable to see part of the menu, just running the mouse to the left of the screen I can see it hightlight's something [I no longer know what] and if I click on it either a sub menu comes up, or the track changes.

[purdisc]

Hi Lion



The way they work in my head in the wipEout series is an immediate change in the direction the craft is pointing, with a more gradual reduction in speed as it's effectively moving sideways (if the brake is held). Or an immediate reduction in speed if both are pulled at once.
I currently feel like the FF brakes shed too much speed immediately, and the turning action is not anywhere near as pronounced as in the wipEout series, but the sideshift effect makes this whole experience feel very different to anything I'm used to.
I'd say my comment a couple of posts back was more of a reaction than a cry for change - I haven't spent enough time with FF yet to form a proper opinion on this matter.


Airbrake values are an element we’re open to tweaking however, the garage mechanic will allow you to change values when fully implemented.



3440*1440, ultrawide. Sold as 21:9, but I don't think that's actually the ratio of any ultrawide, it's 43:18 (21.5:9) to be more accurate

Weirdly enough, I can't play FF in a non-native fullscreen with black bars down the sides like I can some other games. It stretches the game out to full width regardless. My monitor is set to maintain the aspect ratio it's sent, so this is something happening before it leaves my video card.
It may not be the game, it may be something in the current nvidia drivers? no idea.

Possibly it is an nVidia driver issue - assume you’re up to date with their drivers - I’ll raise this with the guys and let you know what they say.

- - - Updated - - -

- - - Updated - - -

hi black wiggle

Does a reboot of the game reset it or does it come up every time defaulting to a setting which runs over the edge of your screen?

There should be a window asking you to confirm and after 15 (?) seconds it reverts to default settings?

Rez settings are a bug area at the moment. Something we’re working on a fix for.

What is your native rez?



I'm new to PC gaming, so I'm not sure if I've done something wrong. [I doubt it, as I have changed nothing]
Ever since I've gone into Custom video settings to turn off the effects, trying to revert back, or change any video settings, no longer work......I'm unable to change between Fullscreen/ windowed/ borderless etc, or resolution ....I'm also unable to see part of the menu, just running the mouse to the left of the screen I can see it hightlight's something [I no longer know what] and if I click on it either a sub menu comes up, or the track changes.

[Hybrid Divide]

Hey Purdisc, any new word of late Kickstarter backer type stuff?

Still looking to get in on that. :)

[purdisc]

hi Hybrid Divide

We discussed this internally and there shouldn't be a problem. What pledge were you interested in?


Hey Purdisc, any new word of late Kickstarter backer type stuff?

Still looking to get in on that. :)

[Hybrid Divide]

Honestly, I'm not sure. The pledge options on Kickstarter are a bit complicated.

I can buy the game via Steam Early Access easily enough. I imagine that the physical stuff isn't able to be done, and I could understand if it was too late to get my name into the credits and such. (But wouldn't complain if that could still happen!)

At the very least, I'm looking for the backer craft, backer skin, cosmetic pack, The Designers Republic Retro craft skins, exclusive track, Soundtrack, and any other digital stuff would be great.

Pledge packages aside, what do you guys think would be a fair price?

(Thanks for getting back to me.)

[purdisc]

thanks Hybrid Divide

Unfortunately I can't take down an order now as we haven't re-opened yet - just interested in roughly what you would be looking for. You're right, they're complicated as heck and many of them aren't going to be ready until final release. We'll make sure you know when we do open it up again. I couldn't comment on what the price points would be.


Honestly, I'm not sure. The pledge options on Kickstarter are a bit complicated.

I can buy the game via Steam Early Access easily enough. I imagine that the physical stuff isn't able to be done, and I could understand if it was too late to get my name into the credits and such. (But wouldn't complain if that could still happen!)

At the very least, I'm looking for the backer craft, backer skin, cosmetic pack, The Designers Republic Retro craft skins, exclusive track, Soundtrack, and any other digital stuff would be great.

Pledge packages aside, what do you guys think would be a fair price?

(Thanks for getting back to me.)

[Hybrid Divide]

No worries. Just pass along the input if you can. :)

Here are my suggestions:

Keep it digital. And consider making only two package options.
One with a key for the game, and one without, as some potential backers may have already bought the game on Steam early access.

Looking forward to more info! :D

[purdisc]

ok - noted


No worries. Just pass along the input if you can. :)

Here are my suggestions:

Keep it digital. And consider making only two package options.
One with a key for the game, and one without, as some potential backers may have already bought the game on Steam early access.

Looking forward to more info! :D