Massive update coming - February 19th

[Hellfire_WZ]

Message from Andrew over on the Formula Fusion forums - new versions coming in for both current owners and TPP members:

------------------------------------

FORMULA FUSION COMMUNITY (ALL)
We are about to release a significant update for you Friday (19th of February) on STEAM. It will signal the start of our next and much more vigorous phase of development as we bring tracks up to Alpha (60% complete) along with gameplay and handling.
We still have a long way to go but we have invested a lot of time in getting back up to speed in terms of technology and implementation of all the main features including multiplayer. Multiplayer will roll out in the coming months to test pilots initially.
Anyway - thanks for remaining patient. We understand your frustrations – so let’s kick things off with something positive;
The update on February the 19th will give you:


GENERAL UPDATE
· A new track – NIAGARA GP (Alpha);
· A new Craft;
· Leaderboards;
· New SFX;
· Updates to MANNA HATTA – previously NY. (these will mainly be visual, based on feedback – the track will evolve through the Test Pilot programme);
· Introduction to the Garage (with placeholder menu system);
· Refined handling;
· Refined AI.


TEST PILOT UPDATE


· RED ROUTE* tracks of the first in-game tracks: MANNA HATTA, ATLAS TORRES, NIAGARA GP and FIAR FURY will be made available to you for test purposes.


*RED ROUTE TRACKS

These are base tracks stripped back in terms of content with base functionality and a base environment blockout. This is so we can track performance profiling and compile changes quickly. Changes, based on feedback and assessed by our internal QA will be made to these tracks throughout Early Access – at various points these changes will then be fed through to the Alpha Builds we have. For simplicity and ease of building - these tracks will have a simple shader applied. Game features will be colour coded according to functionality.


TEST PILOTS (Test Pilot Programme Members)

First of all – I appreciate how frustrated you must feel and I understand that some of your frustrations may have turned into feelings of anger and disappointment. Criticism galvanises us and we are stronger because of it and I hope our response will go some way to reinvigorate your faith in us - If not now, then as you start to see things come together. Just to reiterate, we are in EARLY ACCESS, which means everything is open to tweaks and changes.


TEST PILOT and KICKSTARTER BACKERS
On the 19th of January we are opening our doors to you to become part of our team, properly as we always intended.
We have brought in people to help us manage this process and hopefully we won’t be as stretched as we were – but let’s take things one step at a time. Hopefully we can actually start to grow this with you now.
Test Pilot Forums will be officially opened here: www.formulafusion.co.uk (http://www.formulafusion.co.uk/) on the 19th of February. If you are a test pilot member/ QA or part of the Kickstarter community, you will be sent an inviteto join our exclusive forums to provide your feedback. Don’t worry if you are part of the Early Access community on Steam and want to contribute – we will offer you an opportunity to join the Test Pilots shortly.



We will be in touch.
Best wishes,
Andrew.

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[blackwiggle]

:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall

The ONLY thing I want , and have been asking for ages to be made available [and I think I could vouch for more than me as a TPP ]......... FIRST PERSON VIEW !!!!!

Having me test any new track in anything other than this view is pretty much a waste of time, as I would never race in this view, all the dynamics would seem different....same for any others who race this way.

Wipeout was engrossing with this view....it sucked you in....you became part of the craft... FF NEEDS this to be testable in this mode ASAP...I can't see much constructive criticism coming from anybody that usually races this way that would be of any use to R8..they will just have a brief try of it, then not log in again till the next update...hoping this situation has been fixed.

If you do your research, you will find most of the old Wipeout pilots [a lot are on the TPP program ...percentage??? ...most I would guesstimate] have always raced in that view

Please....let us FLY !

[g2wolf]

Changing your view doesn't change the layout of the track...

[blackwiggle]

No it doesn't, but it changes the way you relate to the track and race around it.
For me it's almost akin to being asked to change from being right handed to being left handed, sure I could manage it, but it feels unnatural.

Slightly OT, did anybody get their weapons to work in the previous build?
I only did about 20 laps on the track when it was first released and haven't touched it since, there didn't seem like anything worthwhile to test, anyway I never got them to work despite trying shutting down and restarting several times.

[g2wolf]

You gotta get 3-4 pickups for it to work. You can see the charge around the rocket (irregardless of whether you actually have rocket or shield for weapon choice). Rockets you have to hold to lock on first, shield just drops a wall behind you. They've worked in all builds so far.

[purdisc]

Hi BlackWiggle

I saw your post and wanted to make sure we're talking about the same thing. When you say "First Person View" are you talking about what we're calling Cockpit Cam? In other words is the camera in the cockpit as though you are the driver or is it on the front of the craft (Boot Cam)?




:brickwall:brickwall:brickwall

The ONLY thing I want , and have been asking for ages to be made available [and I think I could vouch for more than me as a TPP ]......... FIRST PERSON VIEW !!!!!

Having me test any new track in anything other than this view is pretty much a waste of time, as I would never race in this view, all the dynamics would seem different....same for any others who race this way.

Wipeout was engrossing with this view....it sucked you in....you became part of the craft... FF NEEDS this to be testable in this mode ASAP...I can't see much constructive criticism coming from anybody that usually races this way that would be of any use to R8..they will just have a brief try of it, then not log in again till the next update...hoping this situation has been fixed.

If you do your research, you will find most of the old Wipeout pilots [a lot are on the TPP program ...percentage??? ...most I would guesstimate] have always raced in that view

Please....let us FLY !

[blackwiggle]

The view where you don't see any of your own craft, just the track in front of you [nose cam if you like...if it were Boot cam it would be reverse view lol ]
If you fire up WO HD, you have 3 views... Far ...slightly back and overhead of your own craft, Near ...closer, and more level horizontally to your own craft but still slightly above, and First Person view where you don't see your craft at all, and you are looking at the track as you would be if seated in the cockpit of a AG craft....this last one is the view requested ... see video below..... it's also the same racing view that has been available on every Wipeout, and the one used by most of the old time wipeout players, as it is the most immersive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcBAK6cunUY

You should try racing in this view in 3D... Amazing!

As far as I remember, the only wipeouts that had the internal view with the sort of outline of the shape of the cockpit and some sort of mock up of a control panel in front of you were definitely wipeout Fusion, and possibly WO3....either way I never used those views, and that's not the race view I mean, that view obscured too much of the track, it was almost like losing peripheral vision.

[subtotal]

I know WO3SE had an in cockpit cam - it was brilliant, WOHD has the flying carpet view,
are we getting both of these views?

I'm about to download FF now but I can't get on with a trailing camera either.

+ will motion control be covered via the steam controller?

+ will there be VR support?

Thanks

[purdisc]

hi Subtotal - new build is almost up and ready to go out on EA Steam.

I can answer your VR question: yes VR is in the works...not ready for primetime yet but it is looking very cool.




I know WO3SE had an in cockpit cam - it was brilliant, WOHD has the flying carpet view,
are we getting both of these views?

I'm about to download FF now but I can't get on with a trailing camera either.

+ will motion control be covered via the steam controller?

+ will there be VR support?

Thanks

[blackwiggle]

Glad I went to bed then at 2am my time, I just started downloading it now, 8.5 hours later.

[subtotal]

i can answer your vr question: Yes vr is in the works

***king cool brilliant !!!

[blackwiggle]

I've just been playing this update.
The Atlas RR track available to those on the TPP has seemingly taken some of the structural design aesthetics from WO Fusion's Temtesh bay - think of a track made by the same people who built the millennium stadium , and put them in a Sol 2 type of context, but this is racing around a structure.
It has the dreaded semi transparent track look of the FURY tracks, but ATM they are a slightly plain, untextured opaque Red, so the visual confusion you get with the Fury tracks is thankfully not a problem here...as yet.
The track seems very narrow compared to the others, much like Sol 2 in lot of places, there are two jumps. or track drop off's, both small, but there is a problem with one, and that's every time you go over it, it's like something has grabbed the back of your craft and slowed it right down....think of a plane landing on a aircraft carrier.

When I first fired up this track I opted for TT using F3000 craft.... what happened next was it loaded me into what I could only describe as being at around zone 70 speed, and the track was wavering up and down like a rubber band...unplayable...thankfully after going back to the menu and restarting things ran normally.

The other new track for those on the TPP is FURY RR, this is set in a earthquake ravaged city, and there are broken overpasses to race over.
There is one point where you run over about 5-6 broken sections of track in quick succession, you can get over most of them without being impeded, but the last couple can slow you down, by how much varies, as I haven't as yet found a rhyme or reason to it, this portion of track also effects the A.I., as I noticed it broke up the field, that up to that point were in a procession.
Not a very challenging track except for one chicane, and I think my problems with that is down to the sole racing POV which I would never use normally.

Niagara looks good, and the track is surprisingly wide, it's the widest track I've seen in a AG racer.
One problem with it is ATM is that unfortunately I found it a boring track to race on, even though it is long [think the long tracks on WO Fusion ]
I honest to God got a flash back to N64 days play F-Zero X on my first lap of this track.
Maybe R8 are intending to have a few easy tracks in the game to break people in, sort of like a Anulpha Pass in WO HD, and Niagara is FF similar type of track.
If that is so, then Niagara has certainly filled that design brief.

[subtotal]

Blackwiggle there's a cockpit view now

[blackwiggle]

Thanks, I just found it and tried it .... I suppose it's a start, but not what I wanted to see or race with.
As I mentioned in my other post, you lose peripheral vision with this sort of view.

One thing though, the up until now relatively unresponsive craft handling is absolutely twitchy in cockpit POV.

Stuff it, I got the next two days off, I'm going to take the desk top FF is on into my lounge, and plug it into my TV and play it in this new race mode and 3D

[subtotal]

I think my problems with that is down to the sole racing POV which I would never use normally.

Not sure if you know?

- - - Updated - - -

Oops I was trying to add to my last post- I see you've found it

[blackwiggle]

Well I've just been playing this on a much larger screen and in cockpit mode, and for the most part it's quite a bit more of a enjoyable racing experience.
I can actually steer these craft at last, in cockpit mode they feel sort of similar to HD's Assagai, a vast difference to before in the previous default racing view, at least for me. :nod
I put any handling problems down to not currently being able to alter the air brake sensitivity as you could in HD, and for me having to use a twitchy Xbox stick to steer, rather than my preferred PS D-pad.
Once you get into a rhythm with Niagara and start hitting all the speed pads, the sense of speed [first time this has been felt so far with FF ] is apparent, so it doesn't seem as boring as it did initially.
I imagine once you have quite a few racing together on this track things are going to get pretty hectic .... In a Moa Therma sort of way.

Two major things still need fixing, one more urgently than the other.
The flash at the crafts nose when hitting a speed pad, and the accompanying speed blur effect is really really off putting, this needs to be able to be turned off, it's like driving with various types of lens flare always obscuring your vision in some manner, it was bad enough in the previous default view, but it's F%#king awful in cockpit view, it now washes out all the colour in the game as well, doing TT on NY day, was like driving through a fog, and that's no exaggeration.
No point building a racing game if people can see where the hell they are going.
By the way, if R8 are reading this, I calibrate my PC monitors with a Xrite i1display pro, and use the same meter with Chromapure Pro to calibrate my TV's and PJ, so I know it's not a fault of my equipment, and me imagining things.

The other problem is the crash dynamics with the side barriers, they are not as bad as the first WO where you just suddenly jolted to a halt, but they seem only marginally better.
I know R8 could tweak this pretty easily, to what extent?
Do people want the same sort of dynamics as 2097, or the slight speed up effect of WO3 if you hit at a certain angle?

Anyway, plenty more laps to do.

Oh, buy the way, playing this game in 3D is a waste of time, don't bother.
The nose/speed pad Flare/blur issue screws the visuals that bad it's totally pointless ....I tried.....and they intent to make a VR version.
9937

Dubious possums

[purdisc]

thanks for that - just clarifying


The view where you don't see any of your own craft, just the track in front of you [nose cam if you like...if it were Boot cam it would be reverse view lol ]
If you fire up WO HD, you have 3 views... Far ...slightly back and overhead of your own craft, Near ...closer, and more level horizontally to your own craft but still slightly above, and First Person view where you don't see your craft at all, and you are looking at the track as you would be if seated in the cockpit of a AG craft....this last one is the view requested ... see video below..... it's also the same racing view that has been available on every Wipeout, and the one used by most of the old time wipeout players, as it is the most immersive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcBAK6cunUY

You should try racing in this view in 3D... Amazing!

As far as I remember, the only wipeouts that had the internal view with the sort of outline of the shape of the cockpit and some sort of mock up of a control panel in front of you were definitely wipeout Fusion, and possibly WO3....either way I never used those views, and that's not the race view I mean, that view obscured too much of the track, it was almost like losing peripheral vision.

[blackwiggle]

I posted at the R8 forums about this.
In the cockpit preview thread...... as much as I find it a improvement, it's ultimately not what we old wipeout racers were wanting, as you could gather now you have viewed the video above and compared it against what R8 gave us..... well I hope you watched the video.

As much as I still find this view issue a frustration, it is a just tiny compared to the much bigger and constant frustration since day one of the decision to have speed blur and nose flare when running over speed pads.

These effects just ruin what could be a great game, you might as well release it at 480i because that's what it looks like when you are constantly running over speed pads....ArggHH! That's what the racers are supposed to do to get the fastest time.

It's a game killer, get rid of it ASAP ....it's not that this hasn't been mentioned before....why it's still in the game is beyond belief ....You guys at R8 do actually TRY and play this game don't you?

[AdHoc]

The ship's behaviour still feels way too rigid and stuck at a constant height from the track's surface.

This all needs to be way bouncier and floatier.

Also, love the environment of Niagara Falls, but damn does the track seem like a highway, just a bit dull. Straights, straights, straights, oh, a corner, OK I'll turn then, straights, straights, straights.

[blackwiggle]

Moa Therma is like that as well for the most part, but it's a good track for online play.
I agree Niagara can seem dull, and that was my first impression, but I see potential there, maybe if they put a few inclines and declines in those straight bits it wouldn't seem as boring.....what's probably got people thinking it's boring over everything else is the long banked bends, one automatically thinks NASCAR Yawn!

As much as I have a lot of frustration with this game as it stands ATM, I keep giving myself a reality check by reminding myself, this is NOT Wipeout, it's Formula Fusion, it's a futuristic take on what formula one might be like if it were AG based, and with weapons.
FF doesn't have BR's thankfully, so there is no need for the small undulations and bumps in the tracks that gave you air to do BR's....maybe the lack of these is why we are thinking the tracks ATM are unremarkable, I think we should wait and see what they play like in Multiplayer first, that should give us a better perspective on things.
Same thing goes for the ride height and 'Floatiness', since the tracks are flat, you don't need that much travel....besides, if you remember the first concept video R8 made, it showed that the plans for the game was to open up options to adjust/ upgrade your craft as you progressed through the game, so obviously Handling would be in amongst those options, if this is still the plan, then they don't need to do anything to the craft ATM, as it will be available for you to do yourself later.

Back on the tracks topic, just ask yourself, would you play a F1 game if the tracks had lots of dips and bumps on them? Your cars handling would be terrible.

I think they have plans for this game having at least one speed class that's a lot faster than Phantom speed in HD.
When I first fired up one of the RR tracks I got accidentally thrust into a speed class that doesn't officially exist, it was a glitch, but I didn't get any error message and the game kept running, so nothing apart from a written explanation of the event for R8, rather than a TPP error report to send them.

[purdisc]

hi blackwiggle

Apologies for confusion re what you were talking about. We will be implementing a "first person" / strapped to the front of the craft Cam / Mad Max, Fury Road Cam ;-) over the coming months.

re "Boot Cam", I had to check this myself as I was sure I had heard of the view you describe being referred to as such. Not easy to find but here's one example to prove I'm not going mad:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/12/what-you-want-to-see-from-grid/p4





The view where you don't see any of your own craft, just the track in front of you [nose cam if you like...if it were Boot cam it would be reverse view lol ]
If you fire up WO HD, you have 3 views... Far ...slightly back and overhead of your own craft, Near ...closer, and more level horizontally to your own craft but still slightly above, and First Person view where you don't see your craft at all, and you are looking at the track as you would be if seated in the cockpit of a AG craft....this last one is the view requested ... see video below..... it's also the same racing view that has been available on every Wipeout, and the one used by most of the old time wipeout players, as it is the most immersive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcBAK6cunUY

You should try racing in this view in 3D... Amazing!

As far as I remember, the only wipeouts that had the internal view with the sort of outline of the shape of the cockpit and some sort of mock up of a control panel in front of you were definitely wipeout Fusion, and possibly WO3....either way I never used those views, and that's not the race view I mean, that view obscured too much of the track, it was almost like losing peripheral vision.

[AdHoc]

it's a futuristic take on what formula one might be like if it were AG based.

I don't think that's an excuse for dodgy physics (and I mean video game physics, not real life physics).

I'm sorry to say, but being developed by original Wipeout devs and having been proclaimed as "Wipeout's spiritual successor" by pretty much everyone, I expect something similar in terms of gameplay.

There's only two natural, proven ways of making an AG racing game: the Wipeout way (dynamic and elastic) and the F-Zero way (rigid and fluid). They both work very well, anything in between is a waste of time in my opinion.

But I don't know why I'm even lingering over this game, I want the Wipeout universe and nothing else anyway :(

[blackwiggle]

hi blackwiggle

Apologies for confusion re what you were talking about. We will be implementing a "first person" / strapped to the front of the craft Cam / Mad Max, Fury Road Cam ;-) over the coming months.

re "Boot Cam", I had to check this myself as I was sure I had heard of the view you describe being referred to as such. Not easy to find but here's one example to prove I'm not going mad:
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/12/what-you-want-to-see-from-grid/p4


YAY!!!!
The sooner the better.
What a Beautiful day it will be

9941


I'm sure Xtriko, NZlion and the rest will be ecstatic when its made a real time update [I'll send them a PSN PM ], you should get some more constructive feedback from long term WO players, as they have not been testing up till now, because of this, 'Problem' .
One hurdle over, only the big one to go [those F&*ing speed pad effects ]

[eLhabib]

I'm sorry to say, but being developed by original Wipeout devs and having been proclaimed as "Wipeout's spiritual successor" by pretty much everyone, I expect something similar in terms of gameplay.

THIS.
This was officially proclaimed as being 'the spiritual successor to wipEout' by the devs themselves. As someone who sank over €150 into the TPP and Kickstarter, I have to say, I'm starting to feel cheated. It has become quite clear over the last couple of months that the guys at R8 either fail miserably at trying to recreate the wipEout feel, or aren't even trying at all. Sorry if this sounds bitter, but it is.

[blackwiggle]

I understand your frustration eLhabib.

After playing this new update for a few hours, and then leaving it and mentally comparing it with the Wipeout series, something has been eating away at me, a feeling that things aren't how they should be, a basic 'Failure to communicate' to my racer within.

At first I couldn't work out what the problem was with FF as it is ATM, and where it plans to be...... what is the underlying difference between FF and Wipeout, why aren't we feeling any love for this game yet, surely we should be by now?

Forget craft handling, that can be fixed, and is supposedly going to be user adjustable anyway, as craft upgrades are unlocked [well I certainly hope that's still the case, if not we might be in trouble] .... but I still have Colin Berry's description on the Wipeout design process for track / craft still fresh in my mind, so I'm not really that worried about it.

The track designs themselves, well yes, a bit of a disappointment, when you consider that these are ex SL people, and you would have thought that if they were thinking about starting R8 ages ago, before they took the financial plunge they would of had better track designs already planned .... maybe they do, we just haven't seen them yet...... but in saying that, they are betting 'All in', so you would think they would want to play their strongest hand first up....... Only two tracks so far are at the point of 'No changes' as far as I see it, Manna Hatta and Niagara.

No, there is another basic difference between what R8 are doing, and what SL did.

Psygnosis and SL understood, that what made a successful racing game was to have a clear clean track with as few impediments to the racer as possible, other than the A.I during races.
This clear clean basic track design made Wipeout highly replayable in SL & TT, you just wanted to keep getting better and faster, every PB had to be beaten, there has to be a faster line.
Every track through the whole series where they deviated from that formula, was generally less liked, and they knew that, so historically, they didn't go for trick visual effects, that would of changed things detrimentally.

Now read the basic track breakdown in R8's own words in the TPP
http://formulafusion.co.uk/index.php?/forums/forum/4-qa-tpp-testing/

I'll copy and paste selected portions from that, what I think the problem is.
The track has a real ‘Blade Runner’ feel with all the accompanying grime and sewer fog you would expect. The track has a real under-the-blanket feel as a layer of thick cloud chokes the skyscrapers above.
Visually, as you descend behind the wall of water you start to pick up spray on your screen; there are also sections of the track that have surface water which also generate spray. This can be used as a distraction mechanic for craft immediately behind.
Dust clouds, surface dust, 360o tunnels, jumps, dual carriage way.
The track itself has sections that are missing (this creates bottlenecks) and glass see-through sections. The outside bends on either side behave like quarter pipe sections in a skate park. The overall feeling should be that of severe vertigo.
Features:Vertigo inducing transparent track textures, track holes, vertical sections, layered cloud/fogging. Quarter pipes.

All those portions I copied and pasted break away from what made Wipeout a success in one major area, they are all punitive to the racer visually, or so disorientating that they hardly make you want to do lap after lap of them, trying to bet a PB.

No replay value = No fun, No Fun = why bother, enough people think Why Bother = Bye Bye FF and R8.

[subtotal]

Default
Quote Originally Posted by AdHoc View Post
I'm sorry to say, but being developed by original Wipeout devs and having been proclaimed as "Wipeout's spiritual successor" by pretty much everyone, I expect something similar in terms of gameplay.
THIS.
This was officially proclaimed as being 'the spiritual successor to wipEout' by the devs themselves. As someone who sank over €150 into the TPP and Kickstarter, I have to say, I'm starting to feel cheated. It has become quite clear over the last couple of months that the guys at R8 either fail miserably at trying to recreate the wipEout feel, or aren't even trying at all. Sorry if this sounds bitter, but it is.



FF somehow plays like the offspring of wipeout and f-zero at the moment but I'm sure it will get there,

Without doubt it has got wipeout DNA

[blackwiggle]

They also have a much smaller team working on the game, something that can't be ignored.

But from their output to date, it seems they have spent a lot of their time [time is money ] producing the visual effects seen so far, and probably testing effects we have yet to see.
These effects would be fine in a RPG/ Adventure game for one example, where you walked into and area shrouded in mist /low clouds to give it some atmosphere, it would make you want to explore the area even more in case you missed something..... and I understand what they are attempting, in a 'Blade Runner look' on Manna Hatta.
But what worked as a design element in a movie, and used as a effect could work well in a RPG / Adventure game, doesn't mean it will make the same transfer successfully in a racing game ....and I'm sorry, but it doesn't, it just hinders the racer, which the antithesis of the Wipeout way and what made it replayable

Try doing a few laps of Matta Hatta in the new cockpit mode, hitting as many speed pads as you can and tell me that's a visually pleasing and fun experience.
Then try the night track, doing the same[it's even worse]
Combine the fog, with the speed pad blur, and the accompanying nose flash, it's a mess, it's not just bad, it's sad, in that they think people want to race through this.
Maybe if the speed pad blur and nose flash effect were able to be turn off, things might not be quite so bad, but realistically, it's the wrong design choice for a racing game.

You'll get a few that will say they like it now, but trust me, that's just the novelty factor of it ATM, they will soon tire of it, and if left in this design state will become one of the most detested tracks in the game to race on..... I can see the conversations in online chatrooms already....Host to others:What tracks do we want next?...Reply: Anything except Manna Hatta....pity really, because if it wasn't for the fog, the track is ok.

You will get the same response for other visual design choices on other tracks, that have the same effect as the fog does on Manna Hatta