BallisticNG - Screenshots (large images)

[bigsnake]

This thread is for posting screenshots in, this is primarily for myself and Dreadofmondays to post what we're working on but if you've got any screenshots you want to post then feel free!
To get started, here's what I'm currently working on as of creating this post. A WIP image of Ishtar Citadel:

https://db.tt/VHiLjIct

[Hybrid Divide]

Oooh, I LIKE that!

It has a feel (to me) similar to the remade tracks from W3SE. I dig it.

Also, I have to say congrats on getting your own forum section here at WZ! It's a small thing, but it shows some due recognition! Well done! :D

[Thane Corrigan]

^This. I'm liking the look of this. Ishtar is looking practically done already.
I'm guessing only a few changes to make until it's working?
And I've gotta ask about the inspiration for the name... Destiny's Vex Citadel in the Ishtar Sink, by any chance? :P



As it's B-NG related screenshots, here's the very first few tweaks to Caliburn for an HD concept.
Still using Sketchup (it's what I know best xD) and still very minor changes so far, but hopefully it'll come to something the more I chip away at the low-poly surface.
99169917

[Meg.A.Byte]

Thane Corrigan: Keep up your work, I really would like to see it in HD style. And what's that peaking behind that Calibrun in that 2nd image? :) Yeah, and you really should start modeling in Blender (at least), Shketchup is really useless for this kind of stuff. Don't take it bad, just don't be afraid, it will be worth it, you'll see (but only if you try).

[Xpand]

That actually looks pretty cool!

[bigsnake]

Thane that's looking really good, can't wait to see the finished version! Like Meg.A.Byte said you should really learn Blender (or something like Maya or 3DS Max) at some point, the workflow of those applications are much more suited to what you're doing :)


Ishtar is looking practically done already.
You can play it right now if you want to give it a run, download to a new build is on the release thread (not announcing it properly just yet because I'm updating it over the next few days).

[Thane Corrigan]

Alright, you got me :o That's actually a Feisar in the back, used for inspiration. Hidden elsewhere (off-screen) is a Qirex and Piranha.

I do have Blender installed, although I don't use it much because I have some trouble figuring out the interface.
I just find Sketchup a little easier to use for precision stuff, and then regret it later on xD

[bigsnake]

You've inspired me to start working on HD versions of Xpand's other ships. Currently working on Tenrai, here's what I've got so far:

https://i.gyazo.com/4486e955402e8714b81ff340bb1729c3.png
https://i.gyazo.com/66217391f1518bbec753068f588ada6e.png
https://i.gyazo.com/005db3ca902a893893259135a09c21ec.png

[Thane Corrigan]

That's fantastic! :D Looks like you have the idea down perfectly. Particularly liking the engine grooves and the underside of the nose.

I'm not exactly sure how to tackle the underside of the twin nose-cone of my own one. There's only instances of pure single, dual or tri-hull designs in HD. So I'm finding the fusion a difficult design to work around, but the challenge is there :P

[Meg.A.Byte]

Guys, don't make me remade the Hyperion :D I've already have one unfinished project. And the HD Tenrai looks goood! As Thane said, I love those engine grooves.

[Meg.A.Byte]

So how's it going with HD remakes? Especially with Caliburn. I've seen bigsnake's clay model on youtube and it looks really good.
I've started working on the Hyperion as well, but it will be more like HD Fury remake. But it's going so slow, I just don't know how to model things without knowing how they look like :D I have to make up things in process and it's slowing me down. And it also really frustrates me.

[Thane Corrigan]

Oh, I'm working on the nose section right now, not too much progress since last time though so far, the shape is hard to get right.

I'm having the same problem Mega, it's quite tough to get the right inspiration xD

EDIT: I have no idea how to work the image attachments when they play up. Here's direct links to the images.
Pic #3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/aan27gor4tzc172/Caliburn_HD_3.png?dl=0)
Pic #4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7327nkbgd5q6mqi/Caliburn_HD_4.png?dl=0)
Pic #5 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7psh8w8aisif6so/Caliburn_HD_5.png?dl=0)
Pic #6 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hg123agyvdjsqae/Caliburn_HD_6.png?dl=0)

[Meg.A.Byte]

The attachments are not working :( Just paste URL of images, this is "large images" thread so it should be fine.

[Meg.A.Byte]

@Thane: Nice, I like the front part, the fins especially. And may I have a little question, does Sketchup have some kind of render engine?
I basically have the cockpit done, it's been pretty difficult to make, horrible topology on that one, but I'm still pretty pleased with it. It's better than the original Hyperion or maybe even the models from game.

[Thane Corrigan]

From the looks of things, the only rendering engines available for SketchUp are 3rd party plug-ins.

To be perfectly honest though, it's not a feature I would use in SketchUp, considering I only build in there and then export the models to Blender for any flashy visual purposes.

[Meg.A.Byte]

Finally some posts, I thought everyone is dead :)
@Thane: Oh I see, good thing you use the Blender for something. I don't know if it's comptatible, but I heard Vray is good. But I don't really know because I've never used it.

Here's my progress so you can have at least some image of it.

http://i.imgur.com/BTY9o8X.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kXUwAxY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JHnyHFW.jpg

Direct link if it's not working: http://imgur.com/a/V3LcG

- - - Updated - - -

Uhm, I just leave this here...

http://i.imgur.com/Tb0I2M3.jpg

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Sweet tail-lights!

I always wondered why AG Racers didn't have any practical exterior lighting, it would make navigating dark areas much easier.

[Thane Corrigan]

So small update. Very small update.
I was out for most of the weekend, but I'm back now, and I've gotten started with the plating further back.
http://i.imgur.com/LqTrCVZ.png
The slow angle-changing tri's that I've noticed on the Feisar and EG.X are amazingly effective, for the longest time I've had brainfart moments and not been able to figure out how to pull off this pretty simple method xD
So, my to do list:
- Flesh out how the side pods, wings and engine mesh together.
- Come up with a decent underside for the nose and main body.
- Finishing touches.
Gotta say it's going quite slow, but I think I'm focusing too much on the details too early on maybe.


I've also noticed something quite nice. The view out of the cockpit is actually pretty clear all-round.
http://i.imgur.com/SYFk91Q.png
http://i.imgur.com/BVtzvDg.png
The nose attachments aren't intrusive to the view, although it has slight blind spots with the metal frame (in hindsight, Caliburn could do with one of those reinforced curved windows to clear up those blindspots xD)...
If I'm honest, I would be quite happy inside this pilot seat.

Main ship display to be redesigned later. I admit it's a placeholder from one of the W-HD ships, but it feels a little obscured anyway right now.

[Thane Corrigan]

Guys... I think I've been spending way too much time on this... what is my life? :|
http://i.imgur.com/4uKnoJ4.png
http://i.imgur.com/p9cIxgA.png

[Meg.A.Byte]

That's the way I like it! To the details we go! I guess you understand what I feel when I'm modeling stuff that's not exactly vital to the design or is visible on the exterior. By that I mean the Antigravity device or jet engine (little promo, it's on Sketchfab now, check it out: https://sketchfab.com/models/2608a20713dd4b8c86146e2375feff83 ).

Keep up the good work.

@Amaroq Dricaldari: Thanks man. I'm planning to add the front lights as well, some interesting design. And for the lighting in general, there is some on the HD Fury ship (at least), but only in form of glowing polygon somewhere in front of the ship. I want to take more complex approach than that.

[bigsnake]

Oh wow that's looking great Thane, great work so far!
This isn't related to ships but today I've been working on the tools for the game and I've implemented this feature that draws track tiles which makes for some nice looking layout screenshots
https://i.gyazo.com/c5fdb2d828b7639adc4e56a9682aa0ba.png

[Meg.A.Byte]

Wow, looks great. Does it convert lines to the 2 segmented track and after that you can add different forms of bonuses (like speed, weapon or pit stop)? Or how does it work?

[bigsnake]

The tiles are generated by iterating through the track mesh's triangles and using that data to populate themselves (then I iterate through the tiles and every two tiles are used to generate a track section), the visual representation of them though is done by using the data stored in the tiles to draw lines and fill the space in between the vertices with a color. Each tile has a type which I have a painting tool for so I can easily go in and change them, which are color coded in that image (blue = speed pad, red = weapon pad, yellow = spawn and green = pitlane)

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Just for the Rofls, I kinda want to see these high-polygon models subjected to the PS1-style lighting when they're all finished.

That's a really great track generator, by the way! I can't wait to see what crazy stuff people can make with it.

I wonder if mag-lock will exist in BallisticNG...

Edit; Double derp, I misread it as a track editor because I was half-asleep, my mistake. It's still a really awesome thing that you made, though :3

[Thane Corrigan]

That's the way I like it! To the details we go! I guess you understand what I feel when I'm modeling stuff that's not exactly vital to the design or is visible on the exterior. By that I mean the Antigravity device or jet engine (little promo, it's on Sketchfab now, check it out: https://sketchfab.com/models/2608a20713dd4b8c86146e2375feff83 ).
Keep up the good work.

Oh wow that's looking great Thane, great work so far!
Thanks guys ^^ it's taking a while longer than I expected, but it's getting there.

And yeah, Mega. I can understand what you're feeling. All my previous projects have been going down to ridiculous numbers of polys for relatively small elements :lol
It took until now for me to think "Hey, maybe I don't need so many faces", since a lot of the extra definition can be brought in through specular textures and bump-mapping


This isn't related to ships but today I've been working on the tools for the game and I've implemented this feature that draws track tiles which makes for some nice looking layout screenshots
https://i.gyazo.com/c5fdb2d828b7639adc4e56a9682aa0ba.png
...is that Luna? :P

Y'know, looking at the track layout like this instantly makes me think of those mini-map models on the track select menus in 2097 and Pure.

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

In the case of extra details on your model, culling (occlusion) and Level of Detail are on your side~
Besides, you don't plan on using it in the game, do you? You would just be putting more work on yourself if this is for a static render.

Besides, in the improbable circumstance that you were designing these with the intention that somebody wanted to import these models into BallisticNG, they would lose the bump mapping and the specular most likely. Trying to incorporate that stuff back into BallisticNG's rendering engine would take a lot of work and optimization, especially if they wanted it to fit the rest of the game's aesthetic.

[Thane Corrigan]

Well... if the custom importer tools could handle it in the end, it'd be fun to see if it could be used in-game. ;)
But of course, yes, the bump mapping is maybe one texture layer too many for the current game engine.

But I think these HD models are perhaps more like proofs-of-concept for the ideal designs of each team. With potential for a cameo appearance in a future project, given the right permissions.
Ultimately, though, mostly just for the fun of creativity. :)

[dreadofmondays]

In the case of extra details on your model, culling (occlusion) and Level of Detail are on your side~
Besides, you don't plan on using it in the game, do you? You would just be putting more work on yourself if this is for a static render.

Besides, in the improbable circumstance that you were designing these with the intention that somebody wanted to import these models into BallisticNG, they would lose the bump mapping and the specular most likely. Trying to incorporate that stuff back into BallisticNG's rendering engine would take a lot of work and optimization, especially if they wanted it to fit the rest of the game's aesthetic.

What are you talking about?

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

Thane's model, dude. Because it's awesome.

[mdhay]

Just for the Rofls, I kinda want to see these high-polygon models subjected to the PS1-style lighting when they're all finished.[...]

This is not how lighting works. Models need to be lightmapped correctly and missing any face in the UV sheet will result in a corrupt lightmap, which the engine will work harder to compensate for. It isn't worth it.


That's a really great track generator (read: editor, because you're trying to cover your backseat developing up), by the way! I can't wait to see what crazy stuff people can make with it [...]

Unity would more than likely disagree with this unless bigsnake wanted to abuse his mental health writing the code for it.


Edit; Double derp, I misread it as a track editor because I was half-asleep, my mistake. It's still a really awesome thing that you made, though :3

Yeah, sure you did. You've been deliberately spewing **** in this thread, ignoring what was posted in the hopes that we'd be dumb enough to listen, and editing out the more obnoxious parts when you think you've been caught out. Quit it.


I wonder if mag-lock will exist in BallisticNG...

No.



In the case of extra details on your model, culling (occlusion) and Level of Detail are on your side~
Besides, you don't plan on using it in the game, do you? You would just be putting more work on yourself if this is for a static render.

This amount of detail is nothing compared to models used in games made today. The only valid criticism is the use of SketchUp for making this kind of model, however that's from a professional and academic perspective; you work with what you have, and it's what I had when I started out. Thane could well prove me wrong.

Seriously though, Thane. What you have there is really good! My advice, if you want it, is to go and get a student license for Max/ Maya sometime. You've got some crazy SU skills and once you can move verts around, you'll be even better. :+



[...]Besides, in the improbable circumstance that you were designing these with the intention that somebody wanted to import these models into BallisticNG, they would lose the bump mapping and the specular most likely. Trying to incorporate that stuff back into BallisticNG's rendering engine would take a lot of work and optimization, especially if they wanted it to fit the rest of the game's aesthetic.

How does this fit, exactly?

[Thane Corrigan]

Very.... VERY slow progress here. The air intake now splits into two tubes as it passes [over the AG unit/under the cockpit] to reach the engine, but I'm having definite trouble working out the backend design.
http://i.imgur.com/SeZ0aHS.png

Think I might need to get in contact with one of my buddies who creates countless airship and space-borne capital ship designs just for fun. I'm sure he could figure something out.

[bigsnake]

I guess this thread could be used for videos as well, here's Utah Project in a near completed state! I'm going to add some more buildings and other small details and I think I'll be able to call it complete, in particular I want to make the area around the start grid a bit more interesting and add some variety in the sections that are just surrounded in rocks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgUwdR9x5Y

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

That track reminds me somewhat of a mix between Half-Life and the first Unreal (leaning a lot towards the former), with the overall aesthetic. Looks really good overall.

[Xpand]

http://i.imgur.com/5saH1FU.jpg

[Amaroq Dricaldari]

That looks really cool, reminds me of an under-construction geodesic dome. I also like the illuminated strips on the track.

Are different tracks going to be playable at different times of day and/or under different weather conditions?

[Xpand]

Weather conditions I don't think so, time of day I'm not sure, but most likely not. Weather and time of day is static, but differs for each track though.

[Hybrid Divide]

Looks almost like a night race at Koroderra! Nice!

[aybe]

I guess this thread could be used for videos as well, here's Utah Project in a near completed state! I'm going to add some more buildings and other small details and I think I'll be able to call it complete, in particular I want to make the area around the start grid a bit more interesting and add some variety in the sections that are just surrounded in rocks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgUwdR9x5Y

Nice video :clap

[Xpand]

http://i.imgur.com/nB8k67H.jpg
And there was light....

[aybe]

Very cool !

Are you doing this by code or using a 3D modeler ?

[Xpand]

I don't understand the question.
That image was taken in game. I hope that answers your question.

[aybe]

Yes, that answers the question ! (I was asking if you made those lights by programming or by using a 3D software) :)

[Xpand]

The lighting was made by BnG's lightmapper. A gorgeous piece of work by bigsnake considering how it works.

[bigsnake]

(I was asking if you made those lights by programming or by using a 3D software) :)

The lights are done programmatically, I have a tool that calculates and bakes light into the vertex colors on the meshes :)

[aybe]

Oh okay, nice !

I've just posted the last thing I wanted to do : getting everything to load (http://www.wipeoutzone.com/forum/showthread.php?8897-Extracting-WipEout-3D-models-(large-images-allowed)&p=247125#post247125), so now I'm going to look at getting the repository up for you guys !

By the way, if there's something I can help for in your projects, let me know :)

[bigsnake]

Going to be working on the remainder of the main 8 tracks for the game over the next few days. Here's Harpstone at what I'd say is about 75% completion.

https://i.gyazo.com/a945509edf66d3a93d11814e4c8c3877.png

[Hybrid Divide]

Very very cool!

[aybe]

We feel like at home with these screenshots :D

[bigsnake]

Started working on Omega Harbour, most of it is still pretty basic at the moment but the general feel is there:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYtnESDTKi4&feature=youtu.be

[Fredbob396]

I dig the aesthetic you've got going there. Also that skybox looks kind of familiar. I swear I've seen it in a Counter Strike map or something.

[Sausehuhn]

I agree, the aesthetics really bring back memories. It’s funny how popping polygons and pixelated textures make the game feel very close to the PS1 titles already. The PS1 also always rendered gradients with transparency uncommonly. Kind of noisy. Could fit well here as well. Then all what’s left to do is is bring back the jittering polygons ;)

I could imagine some more geometry (ventilation, stairways, bridges, antennas, smaller buildings etc) and texture variety on some parts. Some more complexity should not get in the way of PS1-aesthetics, I image. As long as there’s enough room for imagination (which is given by the low-res textures anyway). But hey, that’s just personal preference. The whole thing already feels like what Wip4out may have become if the PS1 was still around. So I don’t want to sound nit-picky. Keep up the good work, seriously :)

[Xpand]

New remade track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceTzHsGFfp4

Some of you will remember this track as the one shown in SSGX's first post! :D
Unfortunately imageshack deleted everything so here's the original layout I still had in my hard drive and some pics of its gmax model:
10203
10204
http://i.imgur.com/ashAjJB.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vYM03hD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7xLSbYq.jpg
https://embed.gyazo.com/5fc946dfa75a0be047cffedd3a278382.png

[Wanzer]

Decided to try my hand at Blender and make a ship for BNG.
With no prior experience it was going even ok until I realised the model has 13k tris.
Technically, I think I could go down to 5k with no big loss in quality but it would require some singing and dancing around topology.

Those colors are not texture but materials, at this point I am not sure, should I read texturing tutorials and finish it or just scrap it and do again in lowpoly.
http://i.imgur.com/4T9X3tB.png?1

[Xpand]

Btw just as a reference, all BallisticNG ship are under 300 triangles.

[Wanzer]

I have to say, lowpoly is an art, nothing but big respect to anyone who can master it.
Not sure what I'll make with this model but I'd like to try and make a new one, somewhere closer to those specs you gave me.

@Xpand
Are there limits on models for BNG apart from it must be 1 mesh, 1 material, one texture?
I know that model must be exported as triangles but not sure I noticed a specific option in Blender.
What would happen if model wasnt exported as triangles or had more materials on it?

[Xpand]

It has to be exported as triangles, one mesh, one material, one texture.
If not BallisticNG either returns an exception error and imports nothing, or just crashes, I can't remember. But in any case the code for importing .obj files only works with triangles because there's no ngon-to-triangle conversion algorithm in it.
Since .obj files group polygons like this:

vi,vti,vni - vertex index, vertex UV index and vertex normal index respectively, i=1....n

f v1/vt1/vn1 v2/vt2/vn2 v3/vt3/vn3 etc...

a Triangle looks like this:
f v1/vt1/vn1 v2/vt2/vn2 v3/vt3/vn3

a Quad looks like
f v1/vt1/vn1 v2/vt2/vn2 v3/vt3/vn3 v4/vt4/vn4

So since the importer only looks for triangles, it only looks for the string formatted like this:
f v1/vt1/vn1 v2/vt2/vn2 v3/vt3/vn3

Which depending on the way the program looks for strings may lead to the last vertex of the quad being ignored, or the program crashing from memory overflow since it gets one more vertex than it allocates memory for (4 instead of 3)

I'm not sure what blender options you have, but vertex normals and vertex texture coordinates need to be exported as well.

[Wanzer]

So, previously when I tried to import this ship, it would never appear, now I removed all the materials, found modifier "triangulate" and mapped some quick texture on it.
And this time it actually appeared.
I took it for a spin and I am absolutely sure I need to finish it, even if for BNG specs lowpoly would be better, this thing needs to be finished.
It looks like a murder machine on track and I even come up with unique gimmick so it will require special approach to handle.
Your post been a great help thanks Xpand, I am off to learning how to map a good texture.

One thing, I just started with Blender and 3D in general, "vertex normals" are like direction which shows which way mesh facing, right?
Shouldnt they be exported automatically like inherited quality of a mesh or I do need to do something to export them specifically?
Another thing, "vertex texture coordinates" are created when I unwrap UV map and place polygons on it, did I understood that right?

[Xpand]

Yes. And Vertex normals and Vertex UVs should be exported by default BUT there is an option to disable them, when the game doesn't use that data, which cuts down the .obj file size quite a bit, which was important back in the day when that file format was invented in the 1990's.
Also I think there's an option to export triangulated obj files without having to do anything to the mesh in blender.


Vertex normals are an extension to polygon normals. Mathematically you only need one normal per polygon to define the direction of that polygon, but with the advent of gouraud shading you started needing one normal per vertex in each polygon, which enables smooth light shading since each vertex normal is sort of an average of the polygon normals that surround that vertex, as opposite to one normal per polygon used in flat shading. Normals are important to lighting calculations so that you know the intensity of the light being reflected by that surface. It's calculated through the dot product between the surface (polygon or vertex) normal and the light's direction.

In this image the light is coming from the right. If you draw the normals for the flat shaded cylinder you'll get single vectors coming from the middle of the quads (or anywhere on the quads for that matter), perpendicular to the quad. And you see, as you move to the left the dot product between the light's direction and the quad normals goes closer and closer to 0, lowering the intensity of the light reflected to the camera.
In the Gouraud shading's case you'd draw vectors coming from each vertex in a direction which is the average of the two normals of each quad at the side of the vertex, and the amount of light reflected is interpolated from one vertex to the next, pixel by pixel. For example if one vertex reflected 50% of the light and the vertex to the left reflected 30%, at the middle of the quad that separates the two the light intensity would be 40%.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/D3D_Shading_Modes.png

[Wanzer]

Thanks for explanation and you are also correct, there is an option to export as obj and triangulate faces.
Well, I am off to learn how to make proper UV map.