How AG device looks like?

[Meg.A.Byte]

Hello,
I was wondering about how actually AG device looks like. I want to create one in 3D modelling program for my project and I find out I don't know where to start. I want to know how do you imagine the look and maybe some functions of it. If you have any ideas, please let me know, it can help me a lot.

[Xpand]

I'll just start by saying that, since it's something that doesn't exist, it can be whatever shape you want.
Anyways: There's at least two ways to tackle that problem IMO: The classic artistic way and the engineering way.

The classic design is what you see in pretty much every art that has some sort of AG vehicle in it.
The most usual design are disks hanging from the ship (http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/matrix/images/8/86/Neb-blueprint.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110122063119) that move in order to control the vehicle. The design in Wipeout, for example, is pretty much just some glowing shape. Sometimes it's a square, other times it's a stripe. In the high detail models you can sometimes notice the disk shape.

In terms of engineering we have to consider several main factors:
What physical principle makes it work (electromagnetism/air ionization/momentum transfer).
Control of the AG device (cooling for example, if needed).
Power Supply
Ship control mechanism (can be related to the AG device itself or not)

For physical principles behind the AG device let's start with electromagnetism:
Shape: You would need a round shaped (preferrably) wire coil, like the electromagnets in scrapyard cranes.
Control: You probably wouldn't need cooling on the AG device itself (depending on the coil's resistance), but you would need variable current feeders and those heat up a lot, so you would need metal coolers to dissipate the heat.
Power Supply: you'd need a powerful one. Something that our technology can't create, at least with a long duration. The closest (yet very far) around today are graphene supercapacitors (http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/2022504127/ultra_capacitor_2_7v3000f_graphene_supercapacitor. jpg)
Ship Control mechanism: Since magnetic repulsion is inherently unstable you'd need a very powerful controller to move the AG device in a way that would make the ship stay put. For ship motion you could lean the AG device a bit. Rotation would be achieved through Reaction Control Systems.

Quantum levitation:
With today's technology you would need a superconductor (http://hight3ch.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/quantum-levitation-trapping.jpg)cooled down to very low temperatures. That would require a hefty cooling system and a good heat insulation of the superconductor inside the AG device. So it would look like something pretty robust with lots of cooling fins.
Since quantum levitation is locked (quantum trapping), you would have a lot of trouble moving the ship from side to side, so it would probably require a powerful control system for the whole ship.

Air Ionization:
Ionocraft (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Simpleionocraft.gif/220px-Simpleionocraft.gif) are vehicles that create lift by ionizing the air, making the electron cloud collide with neutral air particles, creating upwards lift. That force however is notoriously weak, and for something as large as the typical car would have to be enormous compared to a car's size. It also takes a lot of energy to operate. Small 20cm long ionocraft take duzens of kV to operate and can only lift their own weight, not counting the power supply. You would need a very exotic form of battery to operate this device. In terms of control you would have to control the ship with exernal systems, such as aerodynamic control surfaces or Reaction Control Systems.

Momentum transfer: Basically a helicopter (I know, not really AG), this technology already exists and is being put into practice (http://www.designboom.com/weblog/images/images_2/lauren/flyingbike/flyingbike04.jpg). It's pretty self explanatory in terms of how it works. You would need to move the ducted fans to create motion for the ship.

Another way to do it would be through the VTOL technology existing in the Harrier.

[Meg.A.Byte]

Wow, you took that in big style. I really appreciate this it helped me in various ways.

My idea will be more or less in artistic way which means I don't need to cover every aspect of fully functional real (possible) AG device (like existing superconductor).

I was searching and found some inspiration for basic design. I think the way I want to go is trough arc reactor-like design with added cooling and power supply in some kind of case (or cover from at least one side) or maybe substitute the arc reactor with some kind of gyroscope.

The arc reactor-like stuff:
9546 9547¨

Gyroscope stuff:
9548 9549

Cooling:
9550

Cover (case):
9551

Also I made one engine (or AG device) in past, but I want to make something slightly different
9552

[mannjon]

Taking what Xpand said and well, expanding on it (ya see what I did there ^_^), depending on how far you want to take realism into the picture, you can also abide by some simple physics principles.

Consider the thrust for a minute. I'm sure you've seen those water jetpacks. For the thrust required to propel someone off the water, a lot of down force is required to lift even a light human being off the surface. To generate enough energy to force that much water down to mitigate some of the lower gravitational pull, you still need a pretty big rig just to push that water down. Now I don't know the actual force required to do so, but it requires much more energy to levitate (anti gravity) than the energy required to propel someone forward. So if this is a device that is meant to provide AG propulsion forward, you would need 2 independent systems (which could be powered by the same source) to provide forward and upward thrust.

However I wouldn't really consider the jet pack as a true anti gravity system because in that example you aren't really messing with any of the electromagnetic science for true AG. However the basic mechanics of it still stand: for our gravity on Earth, you would still need more energy to move upward as opposed to forward. However, if I was designing a true anti gravity transport, I would use conventional methods of forward propulsion, and using electromagnetic science for upward propulsion. As Xpand has already pointed out, you don't need cooling for the anti gravity, but you would if you planned on using traditional modern engines for forward thrust.

One additional thing too, with all the electromagnetic waves that would be off put or otherwise displaced by achieving true anti gravity, you would need some pretty heavy anti-electromagnetic shielding to protect all the various technology inside the craft. Instruments dealing with navigation, control systems, and other electronic measuring devices would all need to be protected from the magnetic dissonance that would occur to get upward propulsion. Since the anti gravity would most likely be a result of either magnifying existing magnetic/gravitational forces, I don't see an easy way around this particular problem. Scientists have been able to prove that radar sonar has the potential to interfere with animals abilities to echo-locate, so even with something as seemingly innocent as radar, the effects can be unpredictable at best.

[NeroIcaras]

Well, magnetic waves bubble up from Earth's core every day, so why not create a drive which repells that force?
It look a cross between ARC reactor and small turbine

[Xpand]

Earth's magnetic lines aren't radial like gravity, they go from pole to pole. If you repelled those lines your ship would just move sideways along the ground without lifting.

[NeroIcaras]

True, sorry Xpand.

How about like mini air turbines but industrialized enough to create billions of AG cars. It works by creating an air pocket underneath the craft, and it spins at just the right ratio to keep the ship up? (like when they showed the AG generator for a brief moment in Pure's intro)

[Jonny]

That 1.) wouldn't be AG technology and 2.) is called a hovercraft that 3.) already exists

[NeroIcaras]

Man, is everyone smarter than me?

[Xpand]

Not really, we just learned that some time ago. Nobody is born all knowing.

[Meg.A.Byte]

Well, I forgot to post updates here so here is one quick. I made this like 2-3 days after posting original comment. I went more artistic way so it's not like something that already exist.
It's still basically the "core" without any cooling, casing and other stuff.

9629 9628

Feel free to suggest possible changes. But unfortunately I'll come back to this project maybe next month or so.

[dreadofmondays]

I like the way it's done in HD/fury: Their ag-devices are usually rings or stripes inset into the ship, with glowy blue plasma stuff running through them. The only one that's different is Pirahna, because canonically their ag-device was totally exotic when they entered competition.
The fact that the one you made is also a ring/disc is quite nice.
9630
These are of course 100% artistic and 0% realistic.

[Jonny]

It's 2206, don't start with realistsic :P

[Cipher]

I love your conceptual 3D work Megabyte!! x)
Do you design on paper first or let it flow straight from your head into the viewport?

Cipher

[Meg.A.Byte]

@dreadofmondays
Yea, I know about this thing and I'm going to apply it on my AG device as well (probably). I like the way it tells your right away "this is how it stays in the air, we have the technology".

@Cipher
Sometimes I prepare the design on paper, for example the whole ship I made, it was on paper very long time before I started modelling it, but some things (like this for example) I think about when it's in progress. And quite often it's combination of both so I sketch just some parts or details of whole thing.

[Meg.A.Byte]

Today I've added cooling system to the device. I like the style of one existing cooler so the design is very similar.
Here it is on the system:
9733
Here's the separate cooler:
9734
And also some views of insides (the rotating sheets are still there, but I hide it for better view):
9735
9736

[Xpand]

Looks cool (pardon the pun).
The coolers are a bit too tiny and too closely packed together (the way the fans are placed they'll just blow the hot air into the coolers next to them) to be efficient, but what would be the world without some rule-of-cool, eh? :D

[Meg.A.Byte]

Looks cool (pardon the pun).
The coolers are a bit too tiny and too closely packed together (the way the fans are placed they'll just blow the hot air into the coolers next to them) to be efficient, but what would be the world without some rule-of-cool, eh? :D

Thanks,
I'm aware of it, but it fits perfectly to my existing parts of the device (those little "coils", i call them like that).
9737
I want to add some "tubing" or ways for hot/cool air to flow, it most probably will be connected directly to the cooling system and the coils.
I had one version before I discovered that perfect fit, but it was more difficult to connect it directly to any part of the existing system.
9738

[Xpand]

The thing with tiny heatsinks is that they have very little volumetric heat capacity (they get really hot really fast if we consider that device operating at very high temperatures, 400ºC up). If I was to do a cooling system for that I'd just make a large fin heatsink all around the system with a big fan on top and some heat exhaust system to vacuum the heat out.
You can do that with your current design, if you get rid of the outer heatsinks and connect the fans in pairs to a Y or T shaped tube and then join those tubes into a big one that's connected to a larger fan somewhere in the craft, that pulls the hot air out, or even by using the craft's motion (although that shouldn't be used alone, you need cooling when the ship is standing still), by cutting a hole into the main tube.

But anyways, that's just a suggestion. You're the artist here xD I just have a thing with making stuff have more probability of working IRL.

[Cipher]

I like the design honestly, feels AG-like, it doesn't all have to make sense, it just has to look good, because int he end, this isn't going to be real :P

I too enjoy the thought having cooling tubes, personally seeing them as a rather big one, possibly connected to the samllers ones via the vertical heatsinks with typical steampunk like piping (but not making it steampunk) (eg smaller to wider on the big tube) and then some thin assymetrical tubes aligned on the big tube, so imagining it

I know i said this before, but i really like your design work XD

Cipher

[Meg.A.Byte]

So, I've changed the number of coolers and added some tubing, hope it's looking better now. It's probably still unreal, but come on :D

9741

The big cylinder on top will be probably hidden inside some bigger tube which will be connected to the back part of the ship.

[Xpand]

Lol you didn't have to do it! xD
But it looks more practical now! And IMO much cooler

[Meg.A.Byte]

I wasn't quite happy about it either so I've changed it.
Well, it's changing all the time (you can notice some changes between last renders on different places as well), maybe this is not the final look.

[Meg.A.Byte]

I'm sorry to open up this thread again with almost nothing new. I just want to share something with you.
I recently discovered one site, called Sketchfab, where you can share 3D models and view them in quite nice quality. So I've tried it out and now you can see my AG device in 3D and in every detail.
Here's the model: https://skfb.ly/JU6L
I recommend using fullscreen. And you can find my original Hyperion ship if you look at my profile or in this link: https://skfb.ly/JTV7

[fdfxd]

what I'm about to say isn't necessarily Anti gravity, as there is no real anti grav device to work off

the closest thing to Anti gravity that works really well for the wipeout games(if you close your eyes and pretend Wip3out,Wipeout 1 and wipeout 2097 don't exist)
Is Magnetic levitation

Since almost all wipeout hd tracks are pure metal,

and Maglev technology exists,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIwbrZ4knpg
I'd assume that it would work like that,

Obviously making a 100 km Maglev track isn't financially viable but that's the part when where you make things up

maybe the tech got cheaper in 2050

I was also really interested in knowing this because I'm working on re-3d modelling the Auricom craft to make sense rather than it being.. absolutely sci fi
but mag lev was as far as I got.